Dual dagger necro

[Onlyflameone.2136]

My build is really weird and may seem as such for many but I love to experiment. I only have struggle with gaining life force.  Playing all minions and the  only option for getting life force is from weapons. I did find that I get alot life force when I go melee with the daggers, but would you share your opinion too?

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Onlyflameone.2136

[Kaladel.1670]

You play this in Open World, I suppose? Core? Reaper? Scourge? You want to keep the minions or keep the daggers? Both?

More infos could help us give you specific help.

 

As a minionmancer, the Shadow Fiend skill 'Haunt' generates 10% life force. You could also detonate your Bone Minions to get LF from their death.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Kaladel.1670
Typos & clarity

[KrHome.1920]

Mainhand dagger is power and offhand dagger is condi, so these two weapons don't complement each other, not even for hybrid builds as on such a build you want to deal direct and condi damage with one skill (e.g. dhuumfire on shroud autos) to be effective.

 

Dual dagger is the worst weapon combination you can run on necro - even though dual incinerator looks awesome, you are playing a really bad build with either a useless offhand (for a power build) or mainhand (for a condi build).

 

Theoretically you could use the mainhand dagger on a condi build for sustain and life force or the offhand dagger as a condi cleanse on a power build, but there are far better options for both: 

The life force generation that mainhand dagger provides, you lose again by not picking warhorn or focus but offhand dagger, which has no life force generation at all.

And why would you want to transfer condis with offhand dagger on a power build when you can generate life force out of them and gain permanent swiftness on top with spectral walk.

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by KrHome.1920

[SkyCake.4216]

I really enjoy "bad" builds and this thread reminded me that I haven't used daggers on Necromancer in literal years. Like, before even HoT came was probably the last time I used them. So, I decided to give them a go! 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFgE1ZYZCMH2FrjVijt1VTH-zRRUbhJG94ChSOiKoiUwkFZUA-e

That's what I'm currently tinkering around with. It is a Reaper build, so obviously a lot of the damage will come from just being in Shroud. I try to jump in and out of it without too much AA'ing though to keep Soul Barbs running. Against a golem however, just using up your LF to AA is more damage. Just less fun. 

Just by being a Reaper build, you'll also be fairly bulky. Your burst will be high enough to feel okay in most situations. Stability won't be awful because you'll want to be using Infusing Terror off cooldown. Blood is Power is better than You Are All Weaklings!, but I'm so sick of Blood is Power. If you decide to use BiP, make sure to weave something between then casts. If you want more tagging, taking Augury of Death is nice but will be a slight DPS loss. It can be fun in Drizzlewood Coast camps that don't have a lot of people there trying to take it. I also tend to run Well of Darkness instead of Signet of Spite.

It doesn't compare to meta or good builds, obviously. But! Using arcDPS, I tend to be near the top still. It deals enough damage for me to not feel bad playing it. Obviously you'll never compete with a Firebrand in full Grieving or a condi Weaver (unless they go down). But, you won't be dead(ha)weight either. Some changes can be made to gear for slightly more power by switching some Assassin to Berseker if you use Decimate Defenses instead. I prefer self-reliance for times when I'm opening cargo in Verdant Brink and won't have a squad. 

I don't like minions. I did however play around with a D/D build that uses Bone Minions, though. 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFgE1aYZCMG2HLkVil7jVrE-zRRUkh3M6hCBUujKIkUwgVh3A-e

Condition-based Minion "Bomber" build has been pretty fun. You essentially just create enough minions that you'll have a mini-army of Bone Minions that are constantly exploding. It's hilarious to watch in high-density mobs such as Drizzlewood, Dragon's Stand, Verdant Brink, ect. Your personal damage isn't great, however. Like, when the champion spawns in a Drizzlewood Coast map, you'll be doing fairly little to it unless you can run around a bit in the immediate area to create more minions. It's solo-ability isn't great, either. Fun on something like Pocket Raptors. But, anything that doesn't create weak mobs or have a bunch standing will be a bit slow. Not like bottom of the barrel awful though. If you don't like dealing with Epidemic (the cast time added is annoying), then could consider a summon. If you also don't want Corrosive Poison Cloud, could add in another summon! Don't forget to change Master of Corruption out if you do decide to change them to summons. 

So! Those are what I'm currently working around with using the idea of D/D. I've tried Scourage variants of the first build and honestly just didn't find it as fun. I thought it would be fun cause less Reaper Shroud would mean more D/D action. But, playing around the Scourge Sand Shrouds really got in the way. These are very obviously Open World builds. Also, if you're going to use Ascended/Legendary gear, you'll have to change around some of the stats. The first build needs 80% crit, but any more is a waste. The second build already overcaps Bleed Duration by 4%. So, if you add more expertise to it, consider a Geomancy sigil instead of Malice, different runes, or eating different food. 

I'm sure these builds can be optimized a bit better. I've been playing FFXIV with a friend lately and haven't had a lot of time to play GW2. But, these have been working fairly-great for me considering what they are. I've been having fun with them, at least. Hope you're having fun, too! 

I actually think the top build would be a lot of fun on Harbinger. It would require some moving of traits and stats. But, the idea sounds like fun! 

Edited September 15, 2021 by SkyCakeLight.3750

[Dadnir.5038]

To be fair, despite being seen as a condition weapon, dagger off-hand is likely to deal more strike damage in a power build in PvE than any of the other necromancer off-hand, since:

- You seldom encounter foes with 2-3 boons in PvE (making spinal shiver not so great in PvE)

- Both deathly swarm and enfeebling blood can deal critical hits (making them superior in regard of damage to soul grasp and locust swarm).

The weak point of a power D/D build is unfortunately dagger main hand which is a bit disappointing in regard of dps compared to axe.

 

[KrHome.1920]

7 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

To be fair, despite being seen as a condition weapon, dagger off-hand is likely to deal more strike damage in a power build in PvE than any of the other necromancer off-hand, since:

... if you ignore the 22% LF that focus4 generates which increases your shroud uptime and damage (it's technically the same for warhorn5).

One life rend + life slash (reaper shroud auto) or one life blast (core shroud auto) outdamages dagger 4 and 5, which have 18 and 25s cooldown. And you can do a lot of these shroud attacks with additional 22% of life force.

The only exception is, when you are generating 100% LF in 10 seconds (the shroud cooldown) without any offhand. Then the life force generation becomes redundant of course.

Edited September 16, 2021 by KrHome.1920

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, KrHome.1920 said:

... if you ignore the 22% LF that focus4 generates which increases your shroud uptime and damage (it's technically the same for warhorn5).

One life rend + life slash (reaper shroud auto) or one life blast (core shroud auto) outdamages dagger 4 and 5, which have 18 and 25s cooldown. And you can do a lot of these shroud attacks with additional 22% of life force.

The only exception is, when you are generating 100% LF in 10 seconds (the shroud cooldown) without any offhand. Then the life force generation becomes redundant of course.

I'm not sure the off-hand is necessary to reach 100% LF in 10s. Technically you just need to build 50% LF in 10s because that's what reaper's degen consume and you want an healthy cycle of 10s max in shroud/10s out of shroud for soul barb. Dagger AA can build mass LF while either life transfer or Life reap can help you lessen the LF drain (if you use life rend+life slash, you're gonna use life reap).

[Teratus.2859]

Well MH Dagger is a melee weapon so naturally that's where you are going to be getting most of your lifeforce gain from.

There isn't much of a point using Dagger/Dagger though, specially with Minions since the only real benefit of the OH Dagger would be the condi transfer.. and minions with the right traits will be pulling them off you regularly anyway.

Focus is an ok OH for Dagger if you want damage, more life force and boon-strip, the latter not really being that useful in most open world content though.
But my recommendation would be for Warhorn as it provides a very nice unblockable hard CC skill as well as a Swiftness boost that also provides AoE damage and lifesteal as well as a little lifeforce gain.

Most will probably tell you to dump the MH Dagger but personally I really like this weapon.
I believe a lot of people overlook this weapon because it's inferior in the damage department to other weapons but I don't believe DPS is the focus of this weapon anyway.

What you really want MH Dagger for imo is the skill 2 lifesiphon.
The amount of healing this skill can provide is nuts for the cooldown it has.
I quite literally use this as a dedicated heal on all my Minion builds so I never need to sacrifice the healing minion.
Combine that with the lifesteal that minions can provide you from Blood Magic traits as well and you're going to be generating quite a lot of passive healing, specially if you go Reaper and take advantage of Rise! which can give you up to 6 additional minions, that also provide you with a unique 25 second buff that gives you 33% damage reduction.. basically it's a very long protection boon 🙂

I love minions in Gw2, they can make you darn near invincible with the right stats etc

Edited October 7, 2021 by Teratus.2859

[Downstate.4697]

Mh dagger works better with wh. Played it with harbinger and had a lot of fun