Something's Got to Give.

[TheDarkness.6947]

As a new player, I definitely agree there’s a ton to get your head around.  So many things you have to commit to instinct rather than having to think about them - if you’re even aware of said things at all.  Not just the build diversity/complexity, but also map complexity, secondary objective complexity, etc.  The fact that the complexity is going to see another multiplier in 2022 with new especs seems crazy.

 

From my perspective, though, the ability to get a quality matchup is possibly the most limiting factor in getting better right now.  I feel pretty confident that despite having a ranking and matching system, I’m getting matched with players with far more experience than me on a fairly regular basis.  I feel fairly certain, based on the comments I see in team chat, that this is an equally bad experience for the higher skilled player as it is for me.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Elite specs really aren't very complex at all. 

They're just new trait/spec lines that come with an extra profession mechanic. It isn't rocket science to figure out.

 

Don't know what 'classes' you mean to retire, but I will say this

If Elite Specs just went poof; right now, with damage the way it is, then i'd love to see any core class go up against something like a core bunker guard.

 

 

[voltaicbore.8012]

On 9/7/2021 at 9:02 AM, Danikat.8537 said:

 

Do you really think elite specs change a profession so much that it's comparable to a new one being added? Admittedly I don't play PvP so my experience is just with WvW and PvE but to me they don't seem that extreme (note: when I replied this was in General Discussion, not the PvP section).

 

For me it's not so much that elite specs force a completely different playstyle from core, but that they offer the potential (and in many ways, directly suggest) a completely different playstyle. The old bunker druid sidenoder does play entirely differently than a glass Sic 'Em soulbeast, although you can make a condi druid and a condi soulbeast that doesn't play that much differently than a core condi ranger.

 

The other class I run a lot in pvp is necro. Reaper, scourge, and core do feel like completely different classes to me, based on the strength of their unique mechanics. While core and reaper share the same "extra HP bar" part of shroud, the similarity ends there. Reaper shroud is just a power melee death machine, while core shroud feels less bursty. My power boon corrupt scourge is entirely different from those two, especially with barrier and how scourge shroud abilities can fire off even while I'm cc'd. And like ranger, I could probably make a build that uses axe/warhorn and lich form for all 3 types of necro, and they'd probably play fairly similarly. That kind of overtly homogenizing effort would probably dilute what makes each elite spec worth taking, however.

 

The sheer variety potentially available is actually remarkable, given that 2/3 of the available traits and utilities all come from the same pool for all specs, and all but 2 to 5 new weapon abilities are also shared.

 

I personally welcome the variety. "Balance" is a very elusive goal, and I believe that sufficient variety can at least simulate (or help us ignore problems with) balance.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

imo, the problem stems from giving players free ways to lvl to 80 and jump right into that high tier content with out having any skill of working your way to it. so the end result is a lack of knowledge in your class your abilities, and the enemy's abilities because they lack any fundamental game play character growth experience, and fundamental game play from low level game play to higher level.

[Mik.3401]

I kind of agree there is a lot of builds to learn which may be overwhelming. However, isn’t it the same for other games?

Also specialisations make things easier than let’s say simply adding more skills to core classes as one can easily expect what they will do with some game experience.

I think expanded core classes would be so much more fun and immersive, but then maybe people would complain there is too many skills too chose from (even though it’s so little to choose from even now with elite specs having choices locked)

Edited September 10, 2021 by Mik.3401

[ASP.8093]

25 minutes ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

imo, the problem stems from giving players free ways to lvl to 80 and jump right into that high tier content with out having any skill of working your way to it. so the end result is a lack of knowledge in your class your abilities, and the enemy's abilities because they lack any fundamental game play character growth experience, and fundamental game play from low level game play to higher level.

Slow-leveling (hopefully) teaches you a few fundamentals like dodging and stun breaks but it inherently doesn't prepare you for playing full characters with synergistic traits and optimized gear sets.

 

If you already understand the game's mechanics you're better off burning a bunch of tomes, buying cheap exotics off the TP, and trying your hands at HOT or Silverwastes for a few hours instead of sitting through the slow drip of "five more levels til you gain the ability to weapon swap!" in order to learn a new class or spec.

[Svarty.8019]

2 hours ago, Mik.3401 said:

I kind of agree there is a lot of builds to learn which may be overwhelming.

It's the increase in the number of specs that generates an ever growing barrier to entry.

The mode becomes more and more difficult to be good at.

 

It's a full-time job to keep up with playing the specs. It's expected that the overall quality of players will decrease because many players won't understand [all the skills] whilst a few full-time players will dominate.

 

That's a very different situation than when the game was young.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Svarty.8019