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Ideal patch notes for Conjured weapons


Nothing.8564

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Conjure weapons now have two charges and no longer innately create a copy for an ally.

 

When swapping to a conjured weapon, you now have Profession Skill 5 to summon a copy for an ally

 

Fire trait 'Conjurer' now additionally grants 1 extra charge of Conjured weapon and Recharge reduced by 40% up from 20%


Fiery Greatsword:

Fiery whirl no longer propels you forward, instead it grants super speed for 3 seconds.


Conjure Earth Shield:

Magnetic Shield pull radius increased to 900, number of targets increased to 5


Conjure Frost bow

Deep Freeze refreshes all other frost bow skills by 100% when successfully hitting a target.


Conjure Flame Axe

Explosive Lava Axe now has 2 charges

Flame leap now has 2 charges

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So no more conjure 5 skills? Those are honestly the strongest skills. What's firery greatsword without fire storm? Or earth shield without the invuln? 

 

Conjures are clunky. Imo, that's why they're avoided. Activation time, gotta figure out where you're gonna put it. What if an ally takes your weapon when the second one is part of your rotation? Not to mention running back to your origin spot when you need the second weapon

 

And the conjurer trait doesn't do anything to help these problems. Not to say conjures aren't strong. But the real question is: Why make conjures so user unfriendly? 

Edited by Stallic.2397
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3 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Make conjures like engi kits, and make frost bow and flame axe not garbage.

Frost bow can heal for 1k an auto.  Frost volley is a spammable 5k+ dps. Its not bad, just not worth the cd for maybe 10s of use.

 

Also flame axe+pyro puissance=damage. Its also the only auto that can be thrown backwards.

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1 minute ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Frost bow can heal for 1k an auto.  Frost volley is a spammable 5k+ dps. Its not bad, just not worth the cd for maybe 10s of use.

 

Also flame axe+pyro puissance=damage. Its also the only auto that can be thrown backwards.

 

Frost bow, flame axe, and lightning hammer are bad as stand alone weapons. If you could swap in and out at will then it would be very different.

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7 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Make conjures like engi kits, and make frost bow and flame axe not garbage.

Conjures are restricted the way they are to actually let engineer have an advantage somewhere.

 

Both have a class system which basically is just "have access to more skills", elementalist through the attunements and engineer through the toolbelt. 

But since elementalist's attunements add more skills (15 additional skills on top of the regular 5 weapon  skills) than toolbelt (5 additional skills), engineer gets access to the kit mechanic to make up for that difference.

 

That's why conjures shouldn't work like kits. Elementalist would just be the better engineer at that point. 

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4 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Conjures are restricted the way they are to actually let engineer have an advantage somewhere.

 

Both have a class system which basically is just "have access to more skills", elementalist through the attunements and engineer through the toolbelt. 

But since elementalist's attunements add more skills (15 additional skills on top of the regular 5 weapon  skills) than toolbelt (5 additional skills), engineer gets access to the kit mechanic to make up for that difference.

 

That's why conjures shouldn't work like kits. Elementalist would just be the better engineer at that point. 

Your under a realty bad mind set about kits vs conjure weapons. Kits are very up to date skills in both dmg and support where conja weapons are so out dated they have very old effects that are 4 years out dated. The hammer alone still has a no target cap on its Static Field and hits for full dmg.

The only thing that is out dated about kits for eng is the 0 cd on swaping something anet realty needs to update because its far too "free" and oppressive from other eng skills to compete.

What ele players are asking for is some real update to conaj weapons casting not so much the skill them self though it would be nice to see them at least update them to the curent meta or conaj weapons are just living in a bubble that can be poped any time making them very unreliable to make builds base off of alone. You can see eng kits in the same way 0 cd is broken and dose not fit the game sooner or labor they will nerf it and that bubble of lack of skill game play from kits will come to an end.

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On 9/8/2021 at 7:25 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

Conjures are restricted the way they are to actually let engineer have an advantage somewhere.

 

Both have a class system which basically is just "have access to more skills", elementalist through the attunements and engineer through the toolbelt. 

But since elementalist's attunements add more skills (15 additional skills on top of the regular 5 weapon  skills) than toolbelt (5 additional skills), engineer gets access to the kit mechanic to make up for that difference.

 

That's why conjures shouldn't work like kits. Elementalist would just be the better engineer at that point. 

I somehow knew you would reply to that comment. You're not wrong though.

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I actually had a really long post about my ideal changes in another thread. You can check out the full list there (along with rationale for the changes), but a quick tl;dr would boil down to this:

 

  • All conjured weapons are now ammo skills with base 2 charges (20 sec recharge cooldown)
  • Active duration has been reduced to 20 sec
  • Conjured weapons no longer summon an additional weapon
  • The group utility that comes from the additional weapon would be built into the actual skills themselves, which have been buffed/changed to compensate
  • The conjurer trait would be moved to GM slot, granting an additional ammo charge per weapon and creating a field that pulses boons to allies/conditions to enemies when a conjured weapon is summoned, in addition to reducing the recharge on conjured weapon skills.
Edited by Tempest.8479
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I'm not sure a lot of these would fix conjures, even if we made them into ammo skills or kits.  The short reason why conjures aren't used is simply because they aren't that good:  

 

Flame Axe: Projectiles move way too slow to hit a moving target, and it has no CC or defense.  

Lightning Hammer: Needs more damage, shorter animations, and ideally some form of stability.  Wind Blast Contradicts the entire set.

Earth Shield:  Used mostly to bunker on point and abuse Lightning Rod.  Would be nice if what it did do, it did better.  I.E. a 600 range pull instead of a 400 range one, more bleeding on each of its effects.

Frost Bow:  Needs more range, higher damage, more consistent damage, faster CC, faster projectiles, and to drop the healing aspects that nobody uses.

 

In short, each one is a gimmick more than a fully fleshed out weapon.  They don't pay off what is sacrificed to play them, which is one utility slot and most of the practical utility skills locked away in our standard weapons.  I'm posting here now because, out of curiosity, I tried them in WvW recently.  Well, I tried the Axe and the Hammer, anyway.  Frost Bow is blatantly bad unless you're destroying siege, and Earth Shield is only good with LR on point.

I was skimming over the hammer thread, and a thought occurred me.  Shocking, I know.  It's still nice to get thoughts every once in awhile.  Basically, this whole argument over what weapon to get and what role to fulfill can be recontextualized into being about how bad our conjures are.  The desire for the Longbow or Rifle is really about how Frost Bow and Flame Axe don't fulfill the long-range niche that we need on this class.  The desire for the Hammer or Greatsword is really about how Lightning Hammer fails to perform as a bruiser or frontline weapon.  Our primary weapons allow us to fulfill the roles of backline, heals, and duelist, but there's a whole lot more to do that leaves Eles aching for more options.

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Id like to see earth shield 5 have half the cast time, and earth shield 2 provide swiftness upon a block.  Earth 1 auto's last skill in the chain should be 1/2sec instead of 3/4 cast time. 

 

Lightning hammer 5 need a very quick cast time and not root you. Id also like to see its CD reduced to 15-20 sec OR add a stun to another skill. 

 

Frost Bow auto should do a bit more damage. Frost bow 5 needs to cast quicker and 4 need to do... more. Evade or daze or something. 

 

Equipping all of them should be quicker and smoother.

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On 9/7/2021 at 11:52 PM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Make conjures like engi kits, and make frost bow and flame axe not garbage.

It'd certainly make up for not having a Magick Archer or Gunmage elite spec if the bow was more kit-like and useable.

Edited by Doggie.3184
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