EoD Main Features look like they were done in a week......

[Luclinraider.2317]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't make sense. How do you know number of players per day is a relevant measure to success for GW2 in the first place? How do you even know if GW2 is pulling those numbers of players or not? You don't have a clue. 

Again, you are INVENTING stats to support your ideas which SPECULATE certain kinds of content will make the game more successful than it is. That doesn't make sense. 

No one knows exact numbers of course, however, there are plenty of sites that pull pretty accurate estimates of logins for MMO's.

Player logins actually mean less so sub MMO's like ESO and WoW since even if they only have 1 million active players...that's still a guaranteed $15 Million dollars a month in subs + what they get from their cash shop.

 

To games like GW2, BDO etc....daily logins are everything. If only 100k players are playing a day...and only 2% of them buy on the cash shop....that's it. There is no other source of revenue. In other words, those numbers are EVERYTHING to our MMO.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

No one knows exact numbers of course, however, there are plenty of sites that pull pretty accurate estimates of logins for MMO's.

Player logins actually mean less so sub MMO's like ESO and WoW since even if they only have 1 million active players...that's still a guaranteed $15 Million dollars a month in subs + what they get from their cash shop.

 

To games like GW2, BDO etc....daily logins are everything. If only 100k players are playing a day...and only 2% of them buy on the cash shop....that's it. There is no other source of revenue. In other words, those numbers are EVERYTHING to our MMO.

You didn't answer my questions. None of that addresses the questions I asked you challenging your completely made-up stats, generalizations and nonsensical position you know better than Anet how to run GW2 as a business ... so let's try that again. 

 

How do you know if 100K players per day is indicates an MMO needs to change? How do you even know if GW2 is pulling those numbers of players or not? What tells you Anet can't make a business of GW2 with 100K players per day?

 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Luclinraider.2317]

4 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

I rather see the game die then see it get to be Generic Gear Treadmill MMO number 10001.

This is probably the best stance I've seen.

Not people lying to themselves about how great the new content is.

Not people saying it needs this or this.

Simply...ya, the new content sucks. But I'd rather have it be sucky GW2 content and die than become something not GW2

That's a perfectly fine stance imo even if I don't agree with it.

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

I never said the game needs to become 100% vertical progression. However, having some vertical progression in the game is a good thing. There is a good size chunk of the community who only play to climb fractals and push raids. That's the portion of the community that AR and ascended gear help keep in the game.

 

Even with these, there's still TONS of horizontal content in the game.

You say "some is ok", but then you write it already has TONS of it, so... seems enough to me.

And by the fact you've dropped the previous comment chain, I guess it's only fair to say you didn't find the point you were looking for. So you understand where you are wrong and what you're asking for is already in the game, in regards of that partial vertical progression.

3 minutes ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

This is probably the best stance I've seen.

Not people lying to themselves about how great the new content is.

Not people saying it needs this or this.

Simply...ya, the new content sucks. But I'd rather have it be sucky GW2 content and die than become something not GW2

That's a perfectly fine stance imo even if I don't agree with it.

lmao, this is clearly not what he said, what are you even trying to do here 😆  

Edited September 11, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

41 minutes ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

This is probably the best stance I've seen.

Not people lying to themselves about how great the new content is.

Not people saying it needs this or this.

Simply...ya, the new content sucks. But I'd rather have it be sucky GW2 content and die than become something not GW2

That's a perfectly fine stance imo even if I don't agree with it.

No that's not his stance at all. He's SPECIFICALLY talking about horizontal progression. 

But this post you made does show your true colours. You would basically prefer the game die if it didn't give you the content you wanted than have it exist with the content you don't. This is clearly the reason why no one, including Anet, should take your posts serious about how interested you are in the health of the game and doing what is best for the game. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Luclinraider.2317]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

You didn't answer my questions. None of that addresses the questions I asked you challenging your completely made-up ideas and nonsensical position you know better than Anet how to run GW2 as a business ... so let's try that again. 

 

How do you know if 100K players per day is indicates an MMO needs to change? How do you even know if GW2 is pulling those numbers of players or not? What tells you Anet can't make a business of GW2 with 100K players per day?

 

 

I did answer your question. There are plenty of sites that give fairly accurate estimates of daily MMO logins. That's one questions answered. These are extremely easy to find with a simple search that I'm sure you're capable of yourself.

 

Your second questions was "How do you know 100k player per day cant suffice Anets operational costs". I'd say we can see the issues with recent layoffs at Anet and even more so...the quality of the content we've been given lately. The Jormag/Prim fights was literally 2 floating heads. The expansion content thus far is 1999 content with almost no animations behind it. This is likely due to not having enough money to put back into the game or being able to afford a team to give us fantastic content like in PoF.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

I did answer your question. There are plenty of sites that give fairly accurate estimates of daily MMO logins. That's one questions answered. These are extremely easy to find with a simple search that I'm sure you're capable of yourself.

 

Your second questions was "How do you know 100k player per day cant suffice Anets operational costs". I'd say we can see the issues with recent layoffs at Anet and even more so...the quality of the content we've been given lately. The Jormag/Prim fights was literally 2 floating heads. The expansion content thus far is 1999 content with almost no animations behind it. This is likely due to not having enough money to put back into the game or being able to afford a team to give us fantastic content like in PoF.

No no ... you didn't. Those things are SPECULATIONS that do NOT answer my questions. The fact you don't have answers exposes your position as fraudulent and your motives selfish (like there was any question in the first place ... but I did give you the chance here)

Edited September 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Luclinraider.2317]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No that's not his stance at all. He's SPECIFICALLY talking about horizontal position. 

But this post you made does show your true colours. You would basically prefer the game die if it didn't give you the content you wanted than have it exist with the content you don't. Why anyone should take your posts serious about how interested you are in the health of the game and doing what is best for the game. 

I'm not sure where you are pulling my stance from aside from putting words in my mouth.

Let me basically do what you're doing. Obtena, you've finally shown your true colors since you obviously want the game to die by continuing on its current path.

See how absurd that sounds?

I don't think either of us want the game to die or we wouldn't be here arguing our points lol.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

I don't think either of us want the game to die or we wouldn't be here arguing our points lol.

That's NOT what you just said though ... No one is putting any words into your mouth. You literally said:

"Simply...ya, the new content sucks. But I'd rather have it be sucky GW2 content and die than become something not GW2"

 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Luclinraider.2317]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No no ... you didn't. Those things are SPECULATIONS that do NOT answer my questions. The fact you don't have answers exposes your position as fraudulent (like there was any question in the first place ... but I did give you the chance here)

Actually fraudulent would mean I am presenting lies. And the only thing I've stated as fact is that the current design choices have resulted in the population trending downward.

 

So...are you telling me the games population is actually going up and is currently at its highest point? Higher than PoF or HoT launch? If that's the case then you're correct.

 

But seeing as that's not the case....it would seem you're simply wrong.

 

Sorry, I gave you a chance to make an argument.....

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

Actually fraudulent would mean I am presenting lies.

You are claiming an MMO with 100K daily players needs to change ... and you don't know that and you don't know if that situation applies to GW2. I mean, if GW2 players, no matter HOW many were logging in daily, were giving Anet the ROI the game needed to be sustainable ... you would be wrong. Clearly, the game IS sustainable with this business model, so whatever story you are spinning here ... it's nonsensical.

Put it this way ... you aren't saying things you know are true either. To give you the benefit of the doubt, that's just a lack of understanding how business works on your part ... but still, you keep doing it. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Luclinraider.2317]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You are claiming an MMO with 100K daily players needs to change ... and you don't know that and you don't know if that situation applies to GW2. I mean, if those players were giving Anet the ROI the game needed to be sustainable ... you would be wrong. 

Put it this way ... you aren't saying things you know are true either. 

These are the closest estimates we can pull with the information available to us.

 

Me saying GW2 has 10k daily players or 10 million daily players would be lies. All we can do is use the information we have available to us.

 

And again, from what we've seen in the last couple of years, those numbers aren't enough to sustain the GW2 team. Otherwise, please explain the layoffs and the obvious drop in content quality.

 

On the other hand, if they are indeed making more than enough money to sustain the studio, then I suppose the drop in content quality and team layoffs are an even bigger issue than we thought. It simply means they don't care about us or the game at that point lol.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Luclinraider.2317

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

These are the closest estimates we can pull with the information available to us.

That's nice but it doesn't change what I'm saying. You are claiming an MMO with 100K daily players needs to change ... and you don't know that. You also don't know enough about how the GW2 business model works to make claims about how or if it needs to change or if the content being delivered will impact it negatively. Clearly, the model for GW2 works because it's 9 years now of sustainable business. 

 

So the fact is ... you really don't know much about your talking about and just creating fiction as a very bad fearmongering tactic to discourage other people from adopting the new content because, your OWN WORDS you would "rather have it be sucky GW2 content and die"

Edited September 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Marikus.1875]

23 minutes ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

28 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

I rather see the game die then see it get to be Generic Gear Treadmill MMO number 10001.

 

 

 

HERE, HERE! 

 

Having just come from a dreadful Gear Treadmill machine, I vote NO to such systems in GW2. Let the game suffer a fiery death should it ever steer the course towards gear obsolescence!!! 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Marikus.1875

[Luclinraider.2317]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's nice but it doesn't change what I'm saying. You are claiming an MMO with 100K daily players needs to change ... and you don't know that. You also don't know enough about how the GW2 business model works to make claims about how or if it needs to change or if the content being delivered will impact it negatively. Clearly, the model for GW2 works because it's 9 years now of sustainable business. 

 

So the fact is ... you really don't know much about your talking about and just creating fiction as a very bad fearmongering tactic to discourage other people from adopting the new content because, your OWN WORDS you would "rather have it be sucky GW2 content and die"

First, I wouldn't consider layoffs and content downgrades sustainable.

 

Second, you're taking my quote out of context as a response to another players response lol.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

First, I wouldn't consider layoffs and content downgrades sustainable.

 

Second, you're taking my quote out of context as a response to another players response lol.

Then you don't know much about business do you? Because LOTS of sustainable companies go through layoffs. In fact, it's actually an indication of an attempt to maintain sustainability. As for the content downgrades ... a period of time where we had lower quality/quantity content does not indicate a problem that there is a general sustainability issue with the business model of the game. 

I'm not taking your quote out of context at all. In fact, the post your quote came from is pretty damning to you and your motives for making these threads. But if it's out of context, please feel free to explain EXACTLY what you meant when you said it if you feel the words YOU SAY are being misrepresented. Here, let me quote what you said AGAIN in case you forgot so you can explain what you mean by it:

"Simply...ya, the new content sucks. But I'd rather have it be sucky GW2 content and die than become something not GW2"

So if you don't mean for that to interpreted as "I want the game to die because the new content sucks" ... then what else could it POSSIBLY mean?

Edited September 11, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Marikus.1875]

19 minutes ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

And again, from what we've seen in the last couple of years, those numbers aren't enough to sustain the GW2 team. Otherwise, please explain the layoffs and the obvious drop in content quality.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but does it not appear that they are refocusing their efforts on GW2? Obviously, something may have happened with the vision a few years back that prompted the headcount reduction which I'm going to assume was driven by a reduced budget.

 

But does it not appear that they are "righting the wrong" and steering back on course? Are we not about to see a significant engine upgrade to DX11? Sure, we're in DX12 now, but DX updates are linear, you need to be at DX11 before you hit DX12...any momentum forward is welcomed IMO. 

 

Are they not revamping WvW because they want to reenergize that gamemode and reinforce a core pillar of GW2? Are they not committing to a new expansion pack which expands the world of GW2 by adding new zones? Are they not expanding on professions and adding a new specialization for every class?

 

Are they not adding a new unique mount type and new casual mechanics instead of just throwing in a new story and calling it a day? 

 

The point is that if this game was in such a dire state or the development team was so tiny, we wouldn't be getting the amount of content and meaningful changes we're seeing. That they're committed to finally improving performance and upgrading the backend shows they have plans for the future at the minimum. 

 

The expansion costs $29.99, that's literally it. How much more content are you expecting for your money? Would you like me to show you what you get for that same price in other large MMO's that may/may not require a mandatory sub?

Edited September 11, 2021 by Marikus.1875

[Crono.4197]

40 minutes ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

Simply...ya, the new content sucks. But I'd rather have it be sucky GW2 content and die than become something not GW2

Go.Play.WoW or dunno something else you'd like, if GW2 is so bad 🙂 Instead of being an entitled person, why not find a game that suits your needs? I really wonder why some people stick around and complain all day if Guild Wars 2 is so bad. Go play your ego boosting MMOs and let the people that only wanna have fun...to have fun.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Crono.4197

[Zephire.8049]

26 minutes ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

And again, from what we've seen in the last couple of years, those numbers aren't enough to sustain the GW2 team. Otherwise, please explain the layoffs and the obvious drop in content quality.

Simple: The CEO at the time, Mike O, spent years of development on an unannounced project (of which there were likely at least 2, turns out) and was diverting most resources—including money and staff—toward it. This resulted in a skeleton team of devs working on GW2 for part of LW4 until NCsoft stepped in and forcibly shut down the secret project and ordered Mike and Arenanet to focus on GW2. A lot of the layoffs were people who weren't even working on GW2 and others who were laid off have since been rehired.

 

The second half of IBS likely suffered because the timeline works with when EoD would have started development and the pipeline would have run out around Drizzlewood, which is when we got a ton of grind added to the game. Which is why you don't surprise your development team by telling them to scrap everything they had planned because you're going to do something else and they have ~2 years to do it.

 

GW1 was able to fully fund GW2's development. GW2 was able to fully fund 3 expansions and several content patches a year for nearly 9 years. There's obviously a market for games like GW1 and GW2 and they can sustain themselves provided management is decent. Trying to compete with established MMOs while alienating their core playerbase and leaving the niche that allowed them to survive the MMO boom and bust of the 00s and early-mid 10s is a recipe for an MMO, any MMO, to go under.

[Burial.1958]

1 hour ago, Zephire.8049 said:

Simple: The CEO at the time, Mike O, spent years of development on an unannounced project (of which there were likely at least 2, turns out) and was diverting most resources—including money and staff—toward it. This resulted in a skeleton team of devs working on GW2 for part of LW4 until NCsoft stepped in and forcibly shut down the secret project and ordered Mike and Arenanet to focus on GW2. A lot of the layoffs were people who weren't even working on GW2 and others who were laid off have since been rehired.

 

The second half of IBS likely suffered because the timeline works with when EoD would have started development and the pipeline would have run out around Drizzlewood, which is when we got a ton of grind added to the game. Which is why you don't surprise your development team by telling them to scrap everything they had planned because you're going to do something else and they have ~2 years to do it.

 

GW1 was able to fully fund GW2's development. GW2 was able to fully fund 3 expansions and several content patches a year for nearly 9 years. There's obviously a market for games like GW1 and GW2 and they can sustain themselves provided management is decent. Trying to compete with established MMOs while alienating their core playerbase and leaving the niche that allowed them to survive the MMO boom and bust of the 00s and early-mid 10s is a recipe for an MMO, any MMO, to go under.

 They should rehire Josh Foreman asap. His layoff was really bad because SAB and JBs was loved by many peoples. It is Content which u don't see in any other MMO.  Myself i do not really like them but my wife loves them.  There are even guilds who helps other players to complete them. So they have also a really nice community touch. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Grebcol.5984

[Rogue.8235]

2 hours ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

An MMO with 100k daily players or anywhere near there needs to change.

For comparison, FF14 has had about 6 million daily players....just so we can see what the current top end looks like.

What will end up happening as the player count continues to drop is that there will be less and less people to spend money on the cash shop.

And I feel people often forget who runs ANet....it's NCSoft....a company notorious for pulling the plug in an instant when a game starts to lose money.

If the player count continues to drop....it's lights out for GW2.

 

And not a single citation to be found anywhere.  I, too, can make up numbers.

Daily Player Counts:

FFXIV = 2

GW2 = 462,777

Super Awesome Dragon Rage Shooting Fest Online - 7,198,165

 

Trust me, I got these numbers from the internet

 

 

[Sesaline.6705]

15 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

You are wrong. Housing in MMOs is pretty awful. Besides that we already have Guild Halls and our Home Instance. It is just a feature for Roleplayers and there are so few of them, they don’t really matter. 

 

Housing in this game isn't great. There's no instance where you can casually visit other homes or see other homes without being invited to private instances. That's why 'housing' in this game is unsuccessful thus far. The home instance is really odd; I wouldn't consider that owning a home that you decorate from a blank slate. It's a block in a city that's pre-decorated and weird. Sure you can throw stuff down in a rinky dink orphanage but it never feels like your space because civilians are living there with their own homes and things going on. Guild housing requires a guild and having perms to decorate, and is a private instance. 

 

FFXIV succeeds here in a big way because of the public instances that any player can visit to view different homes or meet new guilds. They can craft in homes, roleplay, test dps, and show off their creativity to the entire community of their server.

 

Saying I am wrong when I put forward a solid argument and an opinion is an interesting choice btw. Introducing fishing and a boat mount simply is not main expansion content material. Unless they do something like BDO and add naval warfare, a sea-based WvW map, and PvE oceanic bosses with ship fights, cannons, and harpoons I just don't see it being better in any way than public-access housing where you truly own a house, decorate it by crafting and exploring old dungeons, raids, champions, and maps for decoration mats.

[Naxos.2503]

From what I've seen, the skiffs could be used for something more combative, even if it doesn't seem to be the intent right now, and it wont be the case at release, I hold my hope for what comes after.

Yes, a lot of the features look rough around the edges for something that is meant to release in 5 months, that does tell me that they're not quite as ready as they wish, but that someone is pushing for a hard release date. I'd prefer it was otherwise.

In all honesty, I wish they'd announced an extra delay so they have time to properly work on everything. There is a lot of animation jitter, some kinks to iron out. We haven't seen much of the other elite specs, but I do hope that the last ones to be showcased are not the ones who will have the least time spent on. The turtle mount was Awesome, but the only thing we saw of it was a rough 3D model animation, which did look fine, but again, I was honestly thinking atleast the fine model would have been finished, if not the texture.. And that doesn't include the mechanics involved which Are complex in nature. 

Unfortunately, as I mentionned, the fact they announced a hard release date so early on to me means that someone high up is pushing down so that they release by -that- date or else.

What I am confident in however is that the parts of the map they showcased looked fairly nice, even if by now I was hoping to maybe see a bit more... diversity ? Then again the other expansions didn't reveal that much of their environement pre-release either, so maybe it's a-okay.

[Zephire.8049]

1 hour ago, Naxos.2503 said:

From what I've seen, the skiffs could be used for something more combative, even if it doesn't seem to be the intent right now, and it wont be the case at release, I hold my hope for what comes after.

Yeah, it's clear there's a lot of new tech they're trying out. It wasn't too long ago they said 2-person mounts were beyond their abilities and now EoD is shipping with two multi-person mounts. The phasing/party collision also has a lot of potential for future implementations.

You could argue about whether they should be selling point of a whole expansion, but it's still laying the groundwork for future features players have been asking for for years and that alone is exciting. Whether Anet sticks with it or not is still up in the air, but the potential is there.

[Smoosh.2718]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:44 PM, Luclinraider.2317 said:

Skiff's, turned out to be exactly what we were afraid of....just a multi person skimmer that you can stand on....this is literally a reskins.

I hate to break this to you but its a boat, what did you expect?

Furthermore, you can make the thing physical in the world, skimmers arent. You also have speed modes, skimmers do not (outside of its dodge skill that is).
 

 

Edit:
To the reaction confused emoji spammers, did you even watch the stream that clearly showed you what the skiffs will have and what they can do? More to the point have you even played the game is that why you are confused?

Edited September 12, 2021 by Smoosh.2718