EoD Main Features look like they were done in a week......

[Cyndercat.7615]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

You're going to have to define what you mean by 'main' and 'side' features ... and why they can't be relevant expansion content. Or where the rule is that however you defined 'main' feature ... EoD doesn't have one. It's NOT a problem, even if that's true. 

I already did define it in an above post. And again i do think side features like minigames are relevant expansion features. I have said over and over fishing and skiffs are fine as part of an expansion, but as the main feature they are incredibly disappointing. It is a massive problem to me and others. When anet hypes up and advertises a single minigame as the main draw of an expansion I think its sad people will accept that, when we have seen anet can do so much better.

[Obtena.7952]

7 hours ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

I already did define it in an above post. And again i do think side features like minigames are relevant expansion features. I have said over and over fishing and skiffs are fine as part of an expansion, but as the main feature they are incredibly disappointing. It is a massive problem to me and others. When anet hypes up and advertises a single minigame as the main draw of an expansion I think its sad people will accept that, when we have seen anet can do so much better.

That doesn't make sense though ... who said these are 'main features' of the expansion? PLAYERS did. This is a player imposed definition. 

To be frank, the main features aren't these things you talk about. It's the especs, the story and the maps. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Cyndercat.7615]

22 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't makes though ... who said these are 'main features' of the expansion? PLAYERS did. This is a player imposed definition. 

Anet did by setting expectations with previous expansions, cancelling half a living world season and then giving players much much less value and replability in this expansion due to lack of game changing features. Again, I already typed my opinions on this already which you clearly didn't bother to read. 

And to address you edited point, story and maps are basic features. Expansions wouldnt even exist without them and even living world has this content. Elite specs I agree with but even they are done lazily. reusing animations so much. 

Edited September 12, 2021 by zombyturtle.5980

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

I think the point is fishing should be an aside not a main course of the expansion. I dont mind fishing, and in games that do it right I did a heck of a lot of fishing. But is disingenuous for people to lambast the OP for wishing they added the very things we have seen numerous threads and support for on these very forums. I think people just go against him because of the tone of the message, not the ideas.  

The main course is the "standard expansion stuff" like progressing the story, new maps and new especs. And despite what you think, people do also go against the ideas themselves, especially when what OP proposes isn't in any way "more content" (or "more expansion-worthy content") than what he's complaining about in EoD.

[shrew.3059]

33 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

To be frank, the main features aren't these things you talk about. It's the especs, the story and the maps. 

 

Yep. We’ve gotten so used to the especs we don’t even consider them content anymore. This is textbook entitlement.

[Cyndercat.7615]

5 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

Yep. We’ve gotten so used to the especs we don’t even consider them content anymore. This is textbook entitlement.

I literally said I consider epspects a main feature, but they are lazily done in eod due to overuse of old animations. Clearly you dont read either. 

[IYield.1204]

In my opinion, the reality is they wowed us all with the first 2 expansions. Great implementation of core mechanics (Gliding, Mounts, Elite Specs etc) that have been expanded upon and included in all content since. 

The near universal praise for these should encourage ANET to continue expanding these features in fun ways and not trying to reinvent the wheel every single time with a new one. We have seen in a recent MMO that has tried every expansion to increase character progression, make a new feature that changes the way you play and more.

What was the end result? The players got sick of it, and continually asked the developers to keep it simple, revert to the old ways, STOP changing the way you play every expansion.

ANET has great mechanics and gameplay. They should focus on polishing and improving in fun interesting ways the features they already have. There may be a few really cool ideas in the pipeline, but to keep searching for more ways to wow us will end in failure. They have lightning in a bottle. Let’s keep it there.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

I wonder why companies don't show off early versions of things..... 

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

I literally said I consider epspects a main feature, but they are lazily done in eod due to overuse of old animations. Clearly you dont read either. 

So you understand that the main feature of the expansions is the story progressions, new maps and especs and yet... you still write sentences like "Because there is no main feature to go alongside the side feature."? 🤔

Edited September 12, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Luclinraider.2317]

11 hours ago, Jukhy.2431 said:

Here are some official numbers from Anet: https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/news/celebrating-nine-years-of-guild-wars-2/

Last time they released some (when PoF launched): https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-path-to-the-desert-in-numbers/

So from 11 million (players) to 16 million (accounts). I'd say that is an increase.

What an absurd argument.....

Accounts does not equal current player base.

I can't tell if you're being serious, but just as an example. If we were to apply this to other MMO's, then WoW currently has about 140 Million players given the last released numbers.

I think anyone who has played WoW recently as well as anyone with common sense can tell you WoW doesn't have that many players, that's just total account numbers.

Hey! Did you know Neopets has over a billion active players!? I mean...that's their account numbers....it must represent their active player base lol.

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

What an absurd argument.....

Accounts does not equal current player base.

I can't tell if you're being serious, but just as an example. If we were to apply this to other MMO's, then WoW currently has about 140 Million players given the last released numbers.

I think anyone who has played WoW recently as well as anyone with common sense can tell you WoW doesn't have that many players, that's just total account numbers.

Hey! Did you know Neopets has over a billion active players!? I mean...that's their account numbers....it must represent their active player base lol.

As you literally wrote yourself in this thread:

20 hours ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

These are the closest estimates we can pull with the information available to us.

What he bases his opinion on has more value than what you did base yours on (which was... what exactly?).

Edited September 12, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Cyndercat.7615]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

So you understand that the main features of the expansions is the story progressions, new maps and especs and yet... you still write sentences like "Because there is no main feature to go alongside the side feature."? 🤔

Since people really seem incapable of understanding i will make it as clear as i can.

HOT - maps, story - core features

 - elite specs, gliding - game changing features

-adventures, guild halls , raids - side features

 

POF - maps story - core features

elite specs, mounts - game changing features

-adventures, bounties, raids - side features

 

EOD - maps story - core features

elites specs that are lazily done - Totally lacks the game changing features we had from other expansions which is why I think anet is lazy promoting side features like this fill this gap. 

fishing, skiffs, turtle - side features

 

EOD therefore is a lazy and disappointing as it lacks the game changing features from other expansions that made them worthwhile. And its a joke they try and make side features seem like main features. And its sad people will defend this from them. 

 

If you still cant understand my issue then I cant be bothered to explain anymore. 

[Luclinraider.2317]

7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

As you literally wrote yourself in this thread:

What he bases his opinion on has more value than what you did base yours on (which was... what exactly?).

Yes, you have to base your stats on the current numbers available to us.

The argument being made is about active player base from the very first post.

You can't use a completely different stat, in this case total existing accounts, and apply it to the first.

That's like saying. I had 10 oranges, but now I only have one orange. I'm concerned about my lack of oranges. And someone comes up and says "Ya, but you have 12 cookies".....well that's certainly a cool stat, but how does that apply to my oranges lol.

And, once again, refer to my prior post. If you truly believe that WoW has 140 million active players and NeoPets has over 1 billion active players because those are their total account numbers, there is clearly no helping you.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Luclinraider.2317

[Sobx.1758]

18 minutes ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

Since people really seem incapable of understanding i will make it as clear as i can.

(...)

If you still cant understand my issue then I cant be bothered to explain anymore. 

Since people really seem incapable of understanding terms they're thowing around, let me help you with that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_pack

Spoiler

An expansion pack, expansion set, supplement, or simply expansion is an addition to an existing role-playing game, tabletop game, video game or collectible card game. These add-ons usually add new game areas, weapons, objects, characters, or an extended storyline to an already-released game

You complain about xyz being "fine as part of an expansion, but as the main feature they are incredibly disappointing". In case of gw2, the main features of the expansions are cleary story progression, new maps with content in them and new especs. Anything else is a side feature. You keep writing about "no main feature", but what you're actually -unknowingly- complaining about is the side feature and that's obviously not because of what HoT gave us, but SOLELY because of the inclusion of mounts in PoF. Mounts that not only can be added just once, but also straight up made HoT SIDE FEATURES obsolete. Expecting every expansion to have SIDE FEATURES powerful enough to render the previous expansions' SIDE FEATURES irrelevant makes no sense. Mounts are probably the reason HoT is attached to PoF for free (and that theory can be proven wrong if they start attaching PoF+HoT to every EoD purchase in the near™ future). Doing that with every other expansion isn't something the players should want and surely isn't something that's a good thing for the company itself.

Anything still unclear here?

(btw it's pretty funny how you count adventures for HoT and PoF, but pretend they'll drop them in EoD for whatever reason 😃)

Edited September 12, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

38 minutes ago, Luclinraider.2317 said:

Yes, you have to base your stats on the current numbers available to us.

The argument being made is about active player base from the very first post.

You can't use a completely different stat, in this case total existing accounts, and apply it to the first.

That's like saying. I had 10 oranges, but now I only have one orange. I'm concerned about my lack of oranges. And someone comes up and says "Ya, but you have 12 cookies".....well that's certainly a cool stat, but how does that apply to my oranges lol.

And, once again, refer to my prior post. If you truly believe that WoW has 140 million active players and NeoPets has over 1 billion active players because those are their total account numbers, there is clearly no helping you.

Nice dodge, but I'll repeat the question: what EXACTLY did you base your "estimate" on, that you can somehow claim it's a reasonable one, when the official numbers aren't?

(and yes, the account number isn't the same as "players online" stat, but you were talking about getting players and increasing number of accounts DOES tell us something about that)

Edited September 12, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Ghostkat.9580]

Anyone giving the OP a hard time because there are five months left to go clearly doesn't understand how game dev works.

An expansion takes YEARS of planning, and a whole lot of money. Remember for a moment that EoD was originally supposed to come out this year, but if features were THIS behind, with basic UI elements not even done and the elite specs having lots of problems that need going back to the drawing board, it's not a good sign in terms of the progress they've made so far. Five more months won't fix that, they need six additional months to a year more.

The expansion reveals thus far, including most of the elite specializations, have lots of really deep problems down to the design philosophy level, and much of it does feel like most of the work was put into the story while features were made afterthoughts.

Can they add more icons for the skiff? Sure. Does that take 5 months to do? No, and to be perfectly honest, icons with three levels of acceleration (slow, medium speed and cruising speed) don't exactly require tons of art direction. My husband works in game development for AAA companies and he says those icons could have gone from an ask from the top to final approved designs in under an hour for a function so menial. There was no excuse for them to be place-holder icons this close to release, or even if they were, simple arrows to show levels of acceleration would have been more fitting placeholder assets to communicate the functions to the audience. Did either of these novelty items, fishing or skiffs, need to take up 2 out of the 5 mastery tracks? Absolutely not.

Now, what about Harbinger? The entire right side of its kit is seriously messed up and has lots of problems (among other the specialization has). Among those problems is all of the icons on the right side of its kit were recolors and identical, similar to the skiff icons, and none of them really gave good visual indication as to what any of those did (whereas Virtuoso and Willbender did not have this issue), not to mention that functionally, they're put together lazily with "here, let's just slap some boons on there". It makes me feel like, similarly to the skiff, the Harbinger was slapped together super last-minute, and wasn't thought out terribly well, which is why it has all the problems it does.

Can they spend the next couple of months between now and release finalizing all the UI art assets? Sure. They could do that. But does that give them enough time to completely revamp a lot of specialization features that are in serious need of going back to the drawing board? Absolutely not. They'd need an additional six more months of dev time for a Fall 2022 release, and even then, that's cutting it a bit tight, considering we're talking about 9 new elite specializations and all the permutations and combinations of things they currently do, and how that interacts with all of the other elite specializations and all the crazy trait, utility skill, weapon ability and gear stat combinations we have in the game.

A lot of this really looks like they're trying to chase the shadow of FFXIV, which is not impressing FFXIV players. Look at the reveals so far. FFXIV revealed its floating dagger class, and then its Reaper, so GW2 put forth Virtuoso and Harbinger. Then we got this bizarre mash-up of Samurai and Monk on a Guardian (FFXIV players loathe that the Samurai and Monk classes are shackled together by gear, which creates lots of balance problems, and what the mains of each want to do for their respective favourite jobs might as well be polar opposites from one another in terms of gameplay... hence why Willbender feels so schizophrenic), and that has lots of problems. The heal move is pretty useless. It's like someone looked up footage of a fighting game and went "fighting games have blocking, right? So let's make a reactive block heal,". To an inexperienced game designer, the logic is sound on paper, but in practice, doesn't work with most third-person MMORPGs with action-combat systems, which is why other games use different methods for damage mitigation on a martial arts job... which ironically similar to what Pyromancer Weaver already uses on Focus 4 and 5.

What did we get after that?

The Greatsword Revenant and Pistol Gunblade Warrior... because Shadowbringers was all about that Dark Knight and Gunbreaker with its gunblade.

This is not impressing FFXIV players. I came here from that game, and all the players who came with me are considering just going right back because of how disappointing the news is. You know what FFXIV players want? Stuff that FFXIV ISN'T giving them, that they really want. You know what was on the wish-list of FFXIV players for Endwalker? Chemist and Time Mage. GW2 has Engineer and Chronomancer. LWS4 gave me the large-scale Bahamut encounter I always wanted from FFXIV but didn't get. It had versions of the Titania (fairy queen boss battle) weapons that didn't suck cosmetically (the Glittering set) and Innocence (golden and white angel guy boss battle) wings (Lightbinder Blades).

I was a Monk main in FFXIV. Thematically, the shounen action job is one of the most popular and sought after in all MMORPGs... but none do it very well. FFXIV's Monk has been downright neglected, to the point where we'll often say that Monk mains are the battered housewives of the FFXIV community. It has NEVER been taken care of, and Yoshi-P revealed that he doesn't really know how to use it. There's been a trend where Black Mage was the most overpowered or the best-designed, and that's because Yoshi-P is a Black Mage main. It's like the dev team catered to what he wanted, but Monk has been in a horrible state. One of the more recent updates that was supposed to fix all the major problems Monk had since Shadowbringers' launch (that we waited a year and a half for, and which wound up not changing the big issues and being the mother of all band-aid patches) completely borked the elemental stance-dancing Monks had. They didn't remove the skills, they were just useless and redundant now. This is the level of treatment we got.

You know what Monk mains want? A version of Monk that doesn't play like total garbage, that has a fun and busy feel to it, a lot of options for combat, and where the elemental stance-dancing feels useful. Not sure if many of you realize this, but the elements and martial arts classes have always been intertwined in Far East Asian MMORPGs and fighting games, even fighting games from the West like Mortal Kombat. I keep linking images of Liu Kang from MK11 where he's just covered in fire and lightning. This stuff makes billions of dollars annually for good reason: it's super popular and is in high demand. No game has 

I wouldn't keep raising hell about dual focus ele if it didn't just so happen that Ele naturally has LITERALLY all of the game mechanics players have been begging for in an MMO martial arts job for DECADES, and the weapon skins are already there, too. Out of the 3 things shounen action anime fans want out of a playable martial artist in videogames, all other games maybe get 1 out of 3 things right... this game gets like 2.5 out of 3 and that's a big deal. All the puzzle pieces just needed to be put together and it's good to go.

But what did we get? Hammer.

I kid you not, when I saw the Ele reveal silhouette, I showed it to my husband, and he said it looked like a very literal swing and a miss.

It's like they didn't think through this terribly well at all, and going into Ultra Korean Fanservice mode isn't going to attract the weebs who are looking for the ANIME jobs, like monk or samurai. It's not like the lore isn't there for it, considering the Samurai garb of the Canthan zealots of GW1. And those weebs outnumber the small handful of GW1 hopefuls who were ever considering returning due to their fanservice. Tens of millions versus maybe a hundred thousand tops. If you're a business looking to make money and you put the few as a higher priority over the many... you deserve to have your business fail out of sheer stupidity.

FFXIV players want what they're not getting, or what isn't good enough in FFXIV. They do not want half-arsed versions of things they already have, like the pistol gunblade which only works with one cosmetic and doesn't have a universal sheathe because it's the cheap and lazy way to avoid making an actual gunblade. Honestly, it should've just been a spear, considering all the Joseon Dynasty influence. GW2 players have wanted that for long enough, FFXIV players want a DRG that doesn't play like trash, it would've been the best move for both player bases to be interested.

The fact that the marketing feels rushed, too, is problematic. It's like they don't have proper art direction. On that subject, notice how, aside from the Joseon Dynasty-looking outfit on Harbinger, most of the gear looks like what we already have. Pistol Warrior is wearing Draconic gear. Not anything new or original... just something we already have, or likely a reskin of it.

This feels rushed. My husband agrees, they needed more time, and going forward with the marketing at this stage to actually name and reveal these specializations without considering if the reaction was going to be "this lacks a sense of identity/needs to go back to the drawing board/too many things mashed together, all of which are done poorly instead of one solid idea done well/etc." was a mistake on ANet's part.

As for what GW2 players would like out of masteries? Not the novelty crap. I don't think anyone here would object to mounts getting upgraded masteries, like more stamina for the skyscale to go vertically and more sustained distance flight/better regaining of altitude for the griffon.

They need another 6 months to a year past their current projected release date. OP is right, this feels rushed and not ready. Five months won't fix anything, on top of all the other work they need to do, like the engine upgrade and alliances. Feels like a quick cash grab making all the wrong moves.

[shrew.3059]

43 minutes ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

I literally said I consider epspects a main feature, but they are lazily done in eod due to overuse of old animations. Clearly you dont read either. 

 

I read just fine, I just happen to think the argument itself is a pretty good example of lacklustre content.

 

Is EoD the first expansion to reuse animations for especs? Would new animations suddenly make the especs respectable content? Are novel animations something you are really going to care about in 3 years?

 

I’m curious what percentage of people calling out laziness on these forums have extensive project management experience and what percentage of those have the requisite knowledge of ANet’s resources and timelines to make an assessment of the effort they’ve put in. If you’re going to complain, put some effort into the arguments. Talk about lazy.

[shrew.3059]

9 minutes ago, Ghostkat.9580 said:

Anyone giving the OP a hard time because there are five months left to go clearly doesn't understand how game dev works.

An expansion takes YEARS of planning, and a whole lot of money. Remember for a moment that EoD was originally supposed to come out this year, but if features were THIS behind, with basic UI elements not even done and the elite specs having lots of problems that need going back to the drawing board, it's not a good sign in terms of the progress they've made so far. Five more months won't fix that, they need six additional months to a year more.

The expansion reveals thus far, including most of the elite specializations, have lots of really deep problems down to the design philosophy level, and much of it does feel like most of the work was put into the story while features were made afterthoughts.

Can they add more icons for the skiff? Sure. Does that take 5 months to do? No, and to be perfectly honest, icons with three levels of acceleration (slow, medium speed and cruising speed) don't exactly require tons of art direction. My husband works in game development for AAA companies and he says those icons could have gone from an ask from the top to final approved designs in under an hour for a function so menial. There was no excuse for them to be place-holder icons this close to release, or even if they were, simple arrows to show levels of acceleration would have been more fitting placeholder assets to communicate the functions to the audience. Did either of these novelty items, fishing or skiffs, need to take up 2 out of the 5 mastery tracks? Absolutely not.

Now, what about Harbinger? The entire right side of its kit is seriously messed up and has lots of problems (among other the specialization has). Among those problems is all of the icons on the right side of its kit were recolors and identical, similar to the skiff icons, and none of them really gave good visual indication as to what any of those did (whereas Virtuoso and Willbender did not have this issue), not to mention that functionally, they're put together lazily with "here, let's just slap some boons on there". It makes me feel like, similarly to the skiff, the Harbinger was slapped together super last-minute, and wasn't thought out terribly well, which is why it has all the problems it does.

Can they spend the next couple of months between now and release finalizing all the UI art assets? Sure. They could do that. But does that give them enough time to completely revamp a lot of specialization features that are in serious need of going back to the drawing board? Absolutely not. They'd need an additional six more months of dev time for a Fall 2022 release, and even then, that's cutting it a bit tight, considering we're talking about 9 new elite specializations and all the permutations and combinations of things they currently do, and how that interacts with all of the other elite specializations and all the crazy trait, utility skill, weapon ability and gear stat combinations we have in the game.

A lot of this really looks like they're trying to chase the shadow of FFXIV, which is not impressing FFXIV players. Look at the reveals so far. FFXIV revealed its floating dagger class, and then its Reaper, so GW2 put forth Virtuoso and Harbinger. Then we got this bizarre mash-up of Samurai and Monk on a Guardian (FFXIV players loathe that the Samurai and Monk classes are shackled together by gear, which creates lots of balance problems, and what the mains of each want to do for their respective favourite jobs might as well be polar opposites from one another in terms of gameplay... hence why Willbender feels so schizophrenic), and that has lots of problems. The heal move is pretty useless. It's like someone looked up footage of a fighting game and went "fighting games have blocking, right? So let's make a reactive block heal,". To an inexperienced game designer, the logic is sound on paper, but in practice, doesn't work with most third-person MMORPGs with action-combat systems, which is why other games use different methods for damage mitigation on a martial arts job... which ironically similar to what Pyromancer Weaver already uses on Focus 4 and 5.

What did we get after that?

The Greatsword Revenant and Pistol Gunblade Warrior... because Shadowbringers was all about that Dark Knight and Gunbreaker with its gunblade.

This is not impressing FFXIV players. I came here from that game, and all the players who came with me are considering just going right back because of how disappointing the news is. You know what FFXIV players want? Stuff that FFXIV ISN'T giving them, that they really want. You know what was on the wish-list of FFXIV players for Endwalker? Chemist and Time Mage. GW2 has Engineer and Chronomancer. LWS4 gave me the large-scale Bahamut encounter I always wanted from FFXIV but didn't get. It had versions of the Titania (fairy queen boss battle) weapons that didn't suck cosmetically (the Glittering set) and Innocence (golden and white angel guy boss battle) wings (Lightbinder Blades).

I was a Monk main in FFXIV. Thematically, the shounen action job is one of the most popular and sought after in all MMORPGs... but none do it very well. FFXIV's Monk has been downright neglected, to the point where we'll often say that Monk mains are the battered housewives of the FFXIV community. It has NEVER been taken care of, and Yoshi-P revealed that he doesn't really know how to use it. There's been a trend where Black Mage was the most overpowered or the best-designed, and that's because Yoshi-P is a Black Mage main. It's like the dev team catered to what he wanted, but Monk has been in a horrible state. One of the more recent updates that was supposed to fix all the major problems Monk had since Shadowbringers' launch (that we waited a year and a half for, and which wound up not changing the big issues and being the mother of all band-aid patches) completely borked the elemental stance-dancing Monks had. They didn't remove the skills, they were just useless and redundant now. This is the level of treatment we got.

You know what Monk mains want? A version of Monk that doesn't play like total garbage, that has a fun and busy feel to it, a lot of options for combat, and where the elemental stance-dancing feels useful. Not sure if many of you realize this, but the elements and martial arts classes have always been intertwined in Far East Asian MMORPGs and fighting games, even fighting games from the West like Mortal Kombat. I keep linking images of Liu Kang from MK11 where he's just covered in fire and lightning. This stuff makes billions of dollars annually for good reason: it's super popular and is in high demand. No game has 

I wouldn't keep raising hell about dual focus ele if it didn't just so happen that Ele naturally has LITERALLY all of the game mechanics players have been begging for in an MMO martial arts job for DECADES, and the weapon skins are already there, too. Out of the 3 things shounen action anime fans want out of a playable martial artist in videogames, all other games maybe get 1 out of 3 things right... this game gets like 2.5 out of 3 and that's a big deal. All the puzzle pieces just needed to be put together and it's good to go.

But what did we get? Hammer.

I kid you not, when I saw the Ele reveal silhouette, I showed it to my husband, and he said it looked like a very literal swing and a miss.

It's like they didn't think through this terribly well at all, and going into Ultra Korean Fanservice mode isn't going to attract the weebs who are looking for the ANIME jobs, like monk or samurai. It's not like the lore isn't there for it, considering the Samurai garb of the Canthan zealots of GW1. And those weebs outnumber the small handful of GW1 hopefuls who were ever considering returning due to their fanservice. Tens of millions versus maybe a hundred thousand tops. If you're a business looking to make money and you put the few as a higher priority over the many... you deserve to have your business fail out of sheer stupidity.

FFXIV players want what they're not getting, or what isn't good enough in FFXIV. They do not want half-arsed versions of things they already have, like the pistol gunblade which only works with one cosmetic and doesn't have a universal sheathe because it's the cheap and lazy way to avoid making an actual gunblade. Honestly, it should've just been a spear, considering all the Joseon Dynasty influence. GW2 players have wanted that for long enough, FFXIV players want a DRG that doesn't play like trash, it would've been the best move for both player bases to be interested.

The fact that the marketing feels rushed, too, is problematic. It's like they don't have proper art direction. On that subject, notice how, aside from the Joseon Dynasty-looking outfit on Harbinger, most of the gear looks like what we already have. Pistol Warrior is wearing Draconic gear. Not anything new or original... just something we already have, or likely a reskin of it.

This feels rushed. My husband agrees, they needed more time, and going forward with the marketing at this stage to actually name and reveal these specializations without considering if the reaction was going to be "this lacks a sense of identity/needs to go back to the drawing board/too many things mashed together, all of which are done poorly instead of one solid idea done well/etc." was a mistake on ANet's part.

As for what GW2 players would like out of masteries? Not the novelty crap. I don't think anyone here would object to mounts getting upgraded masteries, like more stamina for the skyscale to go vertically and more sustained distance flight/better regaining of altitude for the griffon.

They need another 6 months to a year past their current projected release date. OP is right, this feels rushed and not ready. Five months won't fix anything, on top of all the other work they need to do, like the engine upgrade and alliances. Feels like a quick cash grab making all the wrong moves.

 

Sounds like you should build your own game, rather than expecting ANet to do it for you. But if your husband agrees, I guess nothing else needs to be said.

[Ghostkat.9580]

1 minute ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

I read just fine, I just happen to think the argument itself is a pretty good example of lacklustre content.

 

Is EoD the first expansion to reuse animations for especs? Would new animations suddenly make the especs respectable content? Are novel animations something you are really going to care about in 3 years?

 

I’m curious what percentage of people calling out laziness on these forums have extensive project management experience and what percentage of those have the requisite knowledge of ANet’s resources and timelines to make an assessment of the effort they’ve put in. If you’re going to complain, put some effort into the arguments. Talk about lazy.

These things are in fact important, because player identity and players wanting to live out a certain type of power fantasy is what keeps them invested in a particular game. If the game doesn't provide what they want, they'll just go to a different game instead. Ergo, everything from weapon choice to animations does actually matter, and there is indeed metric data which companies to show this affects player interest, engagement and retention. 

They do feel lazy, and rushed, like they haven't been super well thought-out. Lots of quick ideas that sounded cool on paper but developers with more experience doing certain things have found those don't really work in practice, like the useless 6 skill on Willbender. Lots of not really learning from or understanding the current state of the market. Read my above post. On top of that, ANet doesn't actually have a whole lot of money. If you look on Glassdoor, you'll see that they have trouble holding onto senior-level talent because they are among the lower-paying companies in the Greater Seattle area.

On top of this, they got Colin back in January, which they didn't announce until closer to the summer, meaning this expansion has had, at best, 9 months of development with concrete direction with an actual leadership figure. That's nowhere near enough time. There is every indication that the story and maps may have been prioritized over the gameplay, so the specializations and features are far more recent in development, but they rushed to market them well before they were ready and the features haven't had enough dev time for them to really problem-solve stuff. They do feel like they were forcibly slapped together on short notice around the time the icons were revealed. Again, my husband works in game dev, and this is the impression he gets, and he has years of experience working on MMORPGs and for major companies.

This is more than a "these features need buffs" problem, more of a core design philosophy issue and content development being rushed and in need of going back to the drawing board.

Regardless of what you might think, it IS lazy to try and pass off pistol warrior like it can replace having an actual Gunblade weapon type, and isn't impressing the demographic it's targeted at.

[Xanadrine.4352]

4 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

Sounds like you should build your own game, rather than expecting ANet to do it for you. But if your husband agrees, I guess nothing else needs to be said.

Lord jeebus they made some good points. Lots of us play multiple games, and yes FF has 💩on the jobs mentioned. It would have been amazing to have it done right with GW2s amazing combat system. Hammer on Ele, i feel 🤮

[Ghostkat.9580]

6 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

Sounds like you should build your own game, rather than expecting ANet to do it for you. But if your husband agrees, I guess nothing else needs to be said.

This is such an idiotic thing to say. It shuts down discussion without actually responding to the points constructively.

Do you have any idea how many hundreds of millions of dollars and years it takes to make a game of this scale? Evidently not. You must be a high school kid or younger with that kind of attitude, who doesn't understand how the world works, and that it's not the consumer's responsibility to compensate for a game developer's idiotic decisions. We have our own lives.

People like you are why Guild Wars 2 can't have nice things. You keep making excuses that give this game permission to be less than it could be.

[Conncept.7638]

I regrettably have to agree, if non-combat stuff like fishing is going to be their feature focus this expansion, then they should lean in to that enough to actually make an expansions worth of features.

 

The games crafting system has felt "Menus: The Game" since launch, it's not gameplay, it's a barebones progress system. Add hunting, fishing, farming, ranching and whatever else you can think of as actual gameplay systems, and upgrade the existing gathering and crafting system to match.

 

Make the expansion most forefront feature, something actually worth featuring.

[Ghostkat.9580]

2 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Lord jeebus they made some good points. Lots of us play multiple games, and yes FF has 💩on the jobs mentioned. It would have been amazing to have it done right with GW2s amazing combat system. Hammer on Ele, i feel 🤮

Exactly. You, sir/madam, get a trophy for that. ♥ All of us are just waiting for the next game that gives us the gameplay we want, and are just sitting around playing whatever feels like the next best thing. The moment Project BBQ (the dungeon & fighter MMO) finally comes out, a lot of players will just go there instead. Next year, GW2 will have tons of competition, from Blue Protocol to more Genshin Impact stuff to even more Final Fantasy stuff. In fact, the month EoD is slated to come out is when FFXIV's story update patch 6.1 comes out, with more story and the Thordan/Knights of the Round Ultimate fight. Ultimate fights get a TON of viewer engagement on Twitch, which is great for marketing/advertising.

It's like Guild Wars 2 was staring a potential several hundred millions of dollars in the face from the entire shounen fanbase (which makes in the tens of billions of dollars annually and has a consolidated annual growth rate which economists project will increase its financial yield by another $20 billion within the next 7 years) with the systems they have that pretty much give everything they need, and went "nahhhh, let's be different for the sake of being different!".

The GW2 community sometimes has its head up its own rear, considering how many young people who don't work for a living and don't get how long this stuff takes to make or how expensive it is don't really get how the world works. So you get people like this who make excuses for poor decision-making because they don't know enough. They just make assumptions out of entitlement and overestimate how much such a small, under-funded dev team can accomplish in 5 months, or make shallow excuses for why things should be allowed to fail.

My husband would likely turn down a job offer at ANet because other companies would pay him more for doing the same work. A company with those kinds of issues cannot afford to make such missteps. Especially not bringing forth the Far East Asian-themed specializations like a proper martial artist in the Far East Asian expansion, that in it of itself is a swing and a miss, and a marketing faux pa.

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, Ghostkat.9580 said:

This is such an idiotic thing to say. It shuts down discussion without actually responding to the points constructively.

You might have had some points ("This weapon/theme is unacceptable/a joke, because I don't like it" wasn't one of them btw), but you unnecessarily covered them with "my husband said!". I mean, obviously, if your husbands claims your wants are the most important here, then every gaming company should release specifically what YOU want them to and if someone claims they like what you don't... it means they're actively destroying the game (which is also what you've wrote above, after complaining about someone "shutting down discussion" 🙄). Ranting about placeholder icons for first look at the class/feature out of all things also seems to be an effort at actively looking for an issue where there's none.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Ghostkat.9580]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

You might have had some points ("I don't like this weapon/theme" wasn't one of them btw), but you unnecessarily covered them with "my husband said!". I mean, obviously, if your husbands claims your wants are the most important here, then every gaming company should release specifically what YOU want them to. Ranting about placeholder icons for first look at the class/feature out of all things also seems to be an effort at actively looking for an issue where there's none.

You're side-stepping the point. It's a common sense and basic marketing and economic principle. If all the mechanics and puzzle pieces fall into place to do something that makes billions of dollars because it's in high demand by the market, and you have the means to supply that demand really easily when all of your competitors are failing to do it effectively, AND you are releasing a regionally-themed expansion where said move would be extremely appropriate, veering in a completely different direction for the sake of it is like staring free money in the face and saying "nah, I'm good,". It violates the basic principle of supply and demand, and market competition.

A company like ArenaNet simply does not have the money to make such missteps and walk away unscathed. My husband works in the videogame industry and has experience working on MMORPGs, therefore he can speak with greater authority than I.

You're just being dismissive to be difficult on the internet, and missing the greater issue here.