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EoD Main Features look like they were done in a week......


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7 hours ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

Anet did by setting expectations with previous expansions,

OK but those expansions did not define things as 'main' or 'side' features, nor define how many there would be of each. But yes, the previous expansion DO set an expectation and because the features we are getting in this game are similar in volume and type to the ones we got in previous expansions, then it's reasonable to conclude the content IS relevant to the expansion.

Again, just because you don't like the new features or decide to categorize them in some weird way doesn't mean they aren't valuable as expansion content. You're simply discounting the content you don't like ... because you don't like it ... the proclaiming it's 'disappointing'. That's irrelevant to assessing the overall quality and quantity of the expansion for the game. 

So far, without actually being able to experience the content in it's final version ... being disappointed is at best, an ill-informed opinion and certainly no basis for declaring the expansion to be lacking, etc ... and not worth it's price. 

See, the truth is ... as much someone thinks they don't like a feature, they really aren't purchasing the expansion for the features anyways, because at it's core, the expansion isn't about these extra features. It's about the things you so readily dismissed; the maps, the story, the especs ... for WvW, alliances. In the end, whether it's fishing, or house or aliens dropping from the sky ... the truth is that those are not primary considerations for most people to patronize Anet's expansions. That's what makes these threads so absurd. If the majority of people are purchasing an expansion because of 'features' like the ones you list ... then expansions would NOT have stories, maps, especs, etc ... they would just be a pile of new or enhanced systems in the game. 

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ANet just doesn't seem to be able to deliver a proper expansion this time....which is a huge disappointment considering PoF was one of the best MMO expansions I've ever played.   A lot of us

No, legendary gear shouldn't be stronger than ascended. Maybe you want this game to become another game in which players with the best gear are looking down on the ones with a lower tier, but many of

how many threads are you going to start with basically the same topic regarding an incomplete product of which you only have seen glimpses yet? Go play your proposed game of 1999 then if you are that

On 9/10/2021 at 3:44 PM, Luclinraider.2317 said:

-Some form of vertical progressions. We saw this Agony resistance and fractals, but tons of us have been capped out there for some time. Could use a new form. (Legendary gear should be 5-10% stronger stat wise and ascended)

All aboard the Bad Idea Express.

 

It's funny that you call adding new maps and character abilities "a $30 patch" but then list stuff like "no down state in pvp" and "make my legendary numbers higher" as expansion-worthy changes.

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11 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

This part is more of a personal opinion with an attempt to validate the opinion with extremely vague statements. 

 

To be entirely fair, the ability to make complex arguments that draw conclusions from both qualitative and quantitative data is a hard one to acquire. To express it concisely and persuasively is also difficult. These are professional skills people spend many years perfecting.

 

Nobody expects a full commercial/technical accounting of your preferences and desires. The moment you start acting like your argument is a well-sourced, infallible fortress of logic and truth, you’re raising the bar for yourself. Unless you’ve got the skill and data to back it up, why make your life more difficult? Would these forums be more interesting if people got into really technical debates about the price elasticity of Bag Slots? Probably not. So let’s not pretend we’re anything more than amateurs sharing our mutual love of GW2. If you’ve got hard data to share, go for it. A spouse’s vague related experience doesn’t count, and if you had professional experience in these matters, you’d understand why.

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21 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

It's funny that you call adding new maps and character abilities "a $30 patch" but then list stuff like "no down state in pvp" and "make my legendary numbers higher" as expansion-worthy changes.

 

“It’s worth it if I like it” seems to be the theme of this thread. Which is actually a fine basis for purchasing decisions. If it’s not worth it to you, don’t buy it. It’s not a great basis for a general critique.

 

But the fact that it’s worth it to others doesn’t make them crazy/stupid, and it certainly doesn’t make ANet lazy. If it’s worth it to enough people, ANet has made a good business call, your decision notwithstanding. Calling them a company lazy isn’t likely to get them to give more stuff for the same price; people can share their opinions, but should vote with their wallet if they feel so strongly.

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1 minute ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

To be entirely fair, the ability to make complex arguments that draw conclusions from both qualitative and quantitative data is a hard one to acquire. To express it concisely and persuasively is also difficult. These are professional skills people spend many years perfecting.

Nobody expects a full commercial/technical accounting of your preferences and desires. The moment you start acting like your argument is a well-sourced, infallible fortress of logic and truth, you’re raising the bar for yourself. Unless you’ve got the skill and data to back it up, why make your life more difficult? Would these forums be more interesting if people got into really technical debates about the price elasticity of Bag Slots? Probably not. So let’s not pretend we’re anything more than amateurs sharing our mutual love of GW2. If you’ve got hard data to share, go for it. A spouse’s vague related experience doesn’t count, and if you had professional experience in these matters, you’d understand why.

That's precisely my point.  I keep saying that personal opinions are not wrong.  I also have stated, in other threads, that no one needs to validate their own personal opinion.  

When people do start to do so, and do so with fallacious statements, that is where it is problematic  The point changes from "this is what I think" to "these are the facts of reality" which are two very different things.

Again, so many of these suggestions would be perfectly fine if the poster stopped at their personal opinion.  

Simply stating that you like X and hate Y, with some description of your feelings on the matter, is all that is needed.

To state that you hate Y because of the industry (mumble mumble* and the forecasting shows that *hand-waving*  and the fact is that ArenaNet is making a huge mistake because *attempts to generalize personal opinion as unadulterated truth*

 

I'll give an example (and one that is real from me(:

I really dislike events on timers because I'm not able to schedule the other factors of my life around gaming.  Video games are spur of the moment leisure time for me.  So having timers sucks because I can't always participate in them on any given session.  It'd be nice if there was a way to be able to do any event at any time through triggers or something.

 

Nothing in the above statement attempts to generalize the opinion on the entire player base.  None of it is an erroneous statement to try to paint ArenaNet as incompetent.  I made no statements of the economic impact if things aren't changed.

I just shared an opinion, that I actually have.  I did not claim that the game is dying, or dead, or that failing to adopt my opinion is horrible game design and business decision making.

If I did any of the latter things, then I would be wrong.

 

 

So yes, just share the opinion and how you feel.  Don't attempt to throw out facts that are actually erroneous.  Don't dig yourself into a hole where you are defiending your fallacious statements that are unnecessary to your statement of your opinion.

 

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2 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

That's precisely my point.  I keep saying that personal opinions are not wrong.  I also have stated, in other threads, that no one needs to validate their own personal opinion.  

When people do start to do so, and do so with fallacious statements, that is where it is problematic  The point changes from "this is what I think" to "these are the facts of reality" which are two very different things.

Again, so many of these suggestions would be perfectly fine if the poster stopped at their personal opinion.  

Simply stating that you like X and hate Y, with some description of your feelings on the matter, is all that is needed.

To state that you hate Y because of the industry (mumble mumble* and the forecasting shows that *hand-waving*  and the fact is that ArenaNet is making a huge mistake because *attempts to generalize personal opinion as unadulterated truth*

 

I'll give an example (and one that is real from me(:

I really dislike events on timers because I'm not able to schedule the other factors of my life around gaming.  Video games are spur of the moment leisure time for me.  So having timers sucks because I can't always participate in them on any given session.  It'd be nice if there was a way to be able to do any event at any time through triggers or something.

 

Nothing in the above statement attempts to generalize the opinion on the entire player base.  None of it is an erroneous statement to try to paint ArenaNet as incompetent.  I made no statements of the economic impact if things aren't changed.

I just shared an opinion, that I actually have.  I did not claim that the game is dying, or dead, or that failing to adopt my opinion is horrible game design and business decision making.

If I did any of the latter things, then I would be wrong.

 

 

So yes, just share the opinion and how you feel.  Don't attempt to throw out facts that are actually erroneous.  Don't dig yourself into a hole where you are defiending your fallacious statements that are unnecessary to your statement of your opinion.

 

 

Agreed. I actually like some of the fan created especs even if I know they won’t be made. Seeing fan creativity is awesome. If those creators raged that ANet didn’t adopt their ideas, that would be less awesome.

 

My biggest pet peeves:

1. “If you knew anything about the game, you’d know X is good/bad.”

2. “You have no credibility if you think X is good/bad.”

3. “Many people agree with me that X is good/bad.”

4. “Popular MMO Y has X feature, so GW2 will die if it doesn’t get X.”

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16 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

“It’s worth it if I like it.” Which is actually a fine basis for purchasing decisions. If it’s not worth it to you, don’t buy it.

Yup, I don't have a problem with someone disliking it -it's normal for some people to like the expansion and the others to dislike it. What I have a problem with is the weird misuse of the words "patch"/"dlc"/"expansion" and trying to claim "this isn't expansion, because I dislike x". That makes no sense.

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Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Yup, I don't have a problem with someone disliking it -it's normal for some people to like the expansion and the others to dislike it. What I have a problem with is the weird misuse of the words "patch"/"dlc"/"expansion" and trying to claim "this isn't expansion, because I dislike x". That makes no sense.

 

Nope, it does not make sense. But here we are.

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4 hours ago, Ghostkat.9580 said:

FFXIV players want what they're not getting, or what isn't good enough in FFXIV. They do not want half-arsed versions of things they already have, like the pistol gunblade which only works with one cosmetic and doesn't have a universal sheathe because it's the cheap and lazy way to avoid making an actual gunblade. Honestly, it should've just been a spear, considering all the Joseon Dynasty influence. GW2 players have wanted that for long enough, FFXIV players want a DRG that doesn't play like trash, it would've been the best move for both player bases to be interested.

The fact that the marketing feels rushed, too, is problematic. It's like they don't have proper art direction. On that subject, notice how, aside from the Joseon Dynasty-looking outfit on Harbinger, most of the gear looks like what we already have. Pistol Warrior is wearing Draconic gear. Not anything new or original... just something we already have, or likely a reskin of it.

 

 +1 points to you for actually catching and mentioning the Joseon dynasty design influence.

 

As a Korean-American quite fluent in the Korean language/history/etc I have extremely mixed feelings about this design decision.

 

On the one hand, I absolutely loathe everything about the Joseon dynasty, with perhaps the only two exceptions being that this was the era in which the phonetic Korean alphabet was created and the greatest military hero of our people lived and died. But otherwise, I see it as the worst possible time for Korea - an era characterized by the installation of a highly destructive form of Confucianism (that still plagues Koreans to this day), rampant sexism, even more rampant classism, and incredible levels of political corruption that ultimately culminated in some of the aristocracy literally selling the state's sovereignty to Imperial Japan. It is fitting that North Korea is the one still calling itself Joseon.

 

On the other hand, in terms of a gaming-aesthetics choice, this was a chance for ANet to get at the weeb itch from a more unique direction, and I applaud that. For all its faults, the Joseon era (and pre-industrial Koreans in general) featured a very colorful sort of modesty in terms of clothing. I forget her name, but that Jade scientist we see in the trailer is clearly wearing a hanbok, and those types of outfits  - while not clingly, revealing, or particularly flattering - can still be quite attractive and offer a lot of opportunity to use color. ANet could have (and still has the potential to) really knock it out of the part from a cosmetic standpoint here. While actual Korean games like Black Desert often drop the ball on adapting Joseon era designs (for instance in that game they manage to make hanboks for female characters so skanky that they just look... sad and weird), the bits and pieces of Joseon era designs I saw in the first stream were impressive adaptations. 

 

Combat is a different story. The Joseon era being what it was, warfare and the martial way of life was deemed inferior to the path of the scholar. I doubt that there were actually many texts or even codification of techniques and training regimens, and what little might have existed generally did not survive the conflagrations of the occupation era, World War II, and the Korean War. As such I have a hard time believing that there is any real combat inspiration to be had from the Joseon era. What is currently passed off as 'traditional Korean' sword art, for instance, is quite often rebranded Japanese kendo. As for spears and polearms, polearms in general are not appreciated enough by modern audiences and developers, given their massive prevalence and utility in battlefields all across the world and across history. I think this is a result of most games needing to focus combat animation and visual design around how your character looks while fighting, and polearms generally seem to have been useful in group formations. Any real fast/spinny/super cool looking individual spear arts would probably be better drawn from Chinese wuxia influences rather than Joseon.

 

As such, I forgive ANet for giving us "Willbender," which I'm sure translates into "we couldn't use 'samurai' or 'yojimbo' for corporate reasons." I can easily see why ANet couldn't follow the Joseon thread any farther. Moreover, I can see why they wouldn't want to follow it farther. They've explicitly avoided making Cantha a full in-game clone of any one particular East Asian culture, instead choosing to frankenstein a whole bunch of clearly recognizable influences together.

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5 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

Agreed. I actually like some of the fan created especs even if I know they won’t be made. Seeing fan creativity is awesome. If those creators raged that ANet didn’t adopt their ideas, that would be less awesome.

My biggest pet peeves:

1. “If you knew anything about the game, you’d know X is good/bad.”

2. “You have no credibility if you think X is good/bad.”

3. “Many people agree with me that X is good/bad.”

4. “Popular MMO Y has X feature, so GW2 will die if it doesn’t get X.”

 

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yup, I don't have a problem with someone disliking it -it's normal for some people to like the expansion and the others to dislike it. What I have a problem with is the weird misuse of the words "patch"/"dlc"/"expansion" and trying to claim "this isn't expansion, because I dislike x". That makes no sense.

 

What amuses me are the confused reactions to these posts.  Someone actually disagrees that a reasonable mindset is prudent.  I guess whoever is giving these confused reactions prefers unreasonable discourse.

In that case:

EoD is not NOT an expansion because it haz the stuff that I like and everyone likes the stuff that I like because everyone knows that is what makes good games.

The proof is in the 2020Q1 reports followed by the 2020Q2 reports.  Those changes are why ArenaNet knows that they're doing good stuff and the expansion also does the good stuff.

 

Hopefully this reductio ad absurdum is enough to clarify the point here.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

 

 +1 points to you for actually catching and mentioning the Joseon dynasty design influence.

 

As a Korean-American quite fluent in the Korean language/history/etc I have extremely mixed feelings about this design decision.

 

On the one hand, I absolutely loathe everything about the Joseon dynasty, with perhaps the only two exceptions being that this was the era in which the phonetic Korean alphabet was created and the greatest military hero of our people lived and died. But otherwise, I see it as the worst possible time for Korea - an era characterized by the installation of a highly destructive form of Confucianism (that still plagues Koreans to this day), rampant sexism, even more rampant classism, and incredible levels of political corruption that ultimately culminated in some of the aristocracy literally selling the state's sovereignty to Imperial Japan. It is fitting that North Korea is the one still calling itself Joseon.

 

On the other hand, in terms of a gaming-aesthetics choice, this was a chance for ANet to get at the weeb itch from a more unique direction, and I applaud that. For all its faults, the Joseon era (and pre-industrial Koreans in general) featured a very colorful sort of modesty in terms of clothing. I forget her name, but that Jade scientist we see in the trailer is clearly wearing a hanbok, and those types of outfits  - while not clingly, revealing, or particularly flattering - can still be quite attractive and offer a lot of opportunity to use color. ANet could have (and still has the potential to) really knock it out of the part from a cosmetic standpoint here. While actual Korean games like Black Desert often drop the ball on adapting Joseon era designs (for instance in that game they manage to make hanboks for female characters so skanky that they just look... sad and weird), the bits and pieces of Joseon era designs I saw in the first stream were impressive adaptations. 

 

Combat is a different story. The Joseon era being what it was, warfare and the martial way of life was deemed inferior to the path of the scholar. I doubt that there were actually many texts or even codification of techniques and training regimens, and what little might have existed generally did not survive the conflagrations of the occupation era, World War II, and the Korean War. As such I have a hard time believing that there is any real combat inspiration to be had from the Joseon era. What is currently passed off as 'traditional Korean' sword art, for instance, is quite often rebranded Japanese kendo. As for spears and polearms, polearms in general are not appreciated enough by modern audiences and developers, given their massive prevalence and utility in battlefields all across the world and across history. I think this is a result of most games needing to focus combat animation and visual design around how your character looks while fighting, and polearms generally seem to have been useful in group formations. Any real fast/spinny/super cool looking individual spear arts would probably be better drawn from Chinese wuxia influences rather than Joseon.

 

As such, I forgive ANet for giving us "Willbender," which I'm sure translates into "we couldn't use 'samurai' or 'yojimbo' for corporate reasons." I can easily see why ANet couldn't follow the Joseon thread any farther. Moreover, I can see why they wouldn't want to follow it farther. They've explicitly avoided making Cantha a full in-game clone of any one particular East Asian culture, instead choosing to frankenstein a whole bunch of clearly recognizable influences together.

 

Thank you for this! Interesting perspective.

 

I felt Nightfall (and PoF to a lesser extent) attempted a blending of African cultures, but managed to create some meaningful subdivisions that allowed those different cultures to shine. Not being as familiar with East Asian history, I didn’t detect the same aesthetic vision for Cantha but I wonder what it would have been like.

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On 9/10/2021 at 12:44 PM, Luclinraider.2317 said:

There is so much that this expansion could bring to help this game push from 10-12 at its current population into the Top 5.....

-Housing

-WvW expansion

-No downed state in PvP to help the Esport Scene revive

-Permanent 2v2 and 3v3 Arena brackets for the same as above.

-A new class

I'd honestly love the above additions, however, ANet hardly balances the classes we DO have. Yet you want them to add another class? That would just add on to the balancing nightmare we already have. If they can dedicate a team to at least even monthly balance changes, perhaps then we could move on to wanting a new class.

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5 hours ago, Conncept.7638 said:

I regrettably have to agree, if non-combat stuff like fishing is going to be their feature focus this expansion, then they should lean in to that enough to actually make an expansions worth of features.

 

The games crafting system has felt "Menus: The Game" since launch, it's not gameplay, it's a barebones progress system. Add hunting, fishing, farming, ranching and whatever else you can think of as actual gameplay systems, and upgrade the existing gathering and crafting system to match.

 

Make the expansion most forefront feature, something actually worth featuring.

 

I agree with you and tried to say this earlier with much less tact and way more sarcasm. If the devs put the time in to make naval warfare, ship upgrades, sea-based maps & exploration, PvE oceanic bosses, a new WvW map based around sailing with crews, etc... it would make more sense to me. But what we have now is a stardew valley fishing minigame + a multiplayer boat you can place in the world. I was in Sandswept Isles, noticed there's a fishing event there with harpoons, and jokingly said 'oh i didn't know EoD already released, wow'.

 

If the devs are showing us this little, then they must not be very proud of what they've already got on the table. You can show a lot more than some devs fishing and clipping through each others' boats without revealing too much. I'm also gonna say from personal experience in BDO, that sometimes being able to see boats other players place isn't a good thing. It leads to a lot of lag and graphical spaghetti when 50 players all have boats out, some colliding and others not.

 

At least in BDO they added guild galleys with cannons, ship battles, a really laggy Ocean boss, and ship upgrades that impact combat abilities/speed. If I remember correctly you could also customize the appearance with different tiers of armor sets & even run around freely on the thing while someone sails and a few others man the cannons. 

 

I hopet his is what GW2 is working towards because a skiff to me seems like dead end content from what we were shown.

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38 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

Thank you for this! Interesting perspective.

 

I felt Nightfall (and PoF to a lesser extent) attempted a blending of African cultures, but managed to create some meaningful subdivisions that allowed those different cultures to shine. Not being as familiar with East Asian history, I didn’t detect the same aesthetic vision for Cantha but I wonder what it would have been like.

 I just recently started GW1 and am playing things in order of release, so I haven't seen Nightfall yet. I'll keep this in mind when going through. And yeah, there seems to be a lot of African influence on PoF/Elona. I don't know enough (i.e., anything really lol) about sub-Saharan African cultures, but various Egyptian and other Mediterranean influences were cool to see in PoF.

 

I guess I got so carried away with the Joseon thing that I forgot to add a final comment I had about @Ghostkat.9580's vision of what ANet is trying to do. I personally disagree that ANet ever explicitly considered appealing to that market, and I further disagree that they should have even tried to.

 

I think it's just a weird coincidence that FFXIV is having a renaissance at the same time where ANet planned to take us back to Cantha, the one clearly Asian-themed part of the game world. As for weapon assignments, ANet seems pretty committed to adding already-existing weapons to new elite specs, and to me mesmer getting dagger made a lot of sense. In terms of pushing the Harbinger reveal right up front, frankly when I saw in the stream the possibility of pistol necro, I got really interested in the concept, and I'm sure many who enjoy necro felt similarly. I really don't think it had anything to do with FFXIV's reaper reveal in any way. If you want to know what trend-chasing looks like, just play several Korean titles at once across several platforms. For instance, here was a time when every single Korean game had to add a boomerang class - even mobile games that were not MMOs at all. As for pistol warrior being a poor gunbreaker clone... not sure what to say. Not only is gunbreaker in FFXIV from 2-3 years ago, but the key aspect of the whole gunblade thing in anime circles is, you know, the actual gunblade weapon. We are clearly not getting the gunblade or the interesting aesthetic of it in GW2. I think it's a completely unreasonable stretch to see an pistol for warrior and relate that to gunblades. If you want to see a weird imitation of that, Black Desert's newest class is a pretty pirate lady who recently got - wait for it - an actual gunblade (and a team of hilarious cannon otters, but I digress).

 

I'm sure that the 'shounen' market as such is pretty large, but appealing to large markets just because they are large is a terrible idea for most businesses. Your product and company might not even be ready for massive exposure. I believe ANet made the right call to indefinitely delay the Steam release, because as it stands now, this game seems likely to get eviscerated there. I can easily wall-of-text my reasons why I think that would be the case, but I'm wordy enough as it is here. Suffice it to say that I think GW2 will do much better over time as the "why aren't more people talking about this???" game. So much of what makes GW2 uniquely GW2 has nothing to do with weeb sensibilities, and I don't think EoD can or should change that.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 

 

What amuses me are the confused reactions to these posts.  Someone actually disagrees that a reasonable mindset is prudent.  I guess whoever is giving these confused reactions prefers unreasonable discourse.

In that case:

 

 

 

They probably wish to Anet every day for a red angry face, a 'salty' emoji, and a poop emoji they could convey their thoughts clearly with. A picture is worth a thousand words, lol.

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Still seeing a lot of jaded folks complaining that this is more like a "patch" than an expansion for the price. Let me put things into perspective for those few that clearly do not venture outside of this game:

 

Elder Scrolls Online: Blackwood Expansion 

Price: $39.99 (digital upgrade) *optional monthly sub

- new main storyline

- 1 new zone

- 1 new core expansion feature: Companions

- 1 new trial

- new events "oblivion portals" similar to the OG Dolmens 

*dungeons not included because you have to buy them separately from the expac OR become a monthly sub

source: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/updates/chapter/blackwood

 

World of Warcraft: Shadowlands Expansion

Price: $39.99 (digital standard) + $14.99 mandatory monthly sub

- new main storyline

- 5 new zones

- 2 new core expansion features: Covenants & Torghast: Tower of the Damned (think roguelite) 

-1 new raid (which came a month after release)

-8 new dungeons

source: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/shadowlands

 

Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons

Price: $29.99 (digital standard) *NO monthly sub

new main storyline

- 4 new zones (tentative, we may have more)

- 3 new core expansion features: 

          - 1 new specialization per class

          - War turtle mount

          - Fishing profession & Skiffs mechanics

- 1 new strike mission (tentative, we may have more)

Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/end-of-dragons/

 

WoW launched with mounts included in the base game/sub, Shadowlands had the MOST mounts added out of any expansion. I did NOT include those because every single mount functions the exact same way and most are just recolors. A mount in GW2 on the other hand, is an actual new mechanic that changes gameplay and is therefore, a feature as they advertise it. 

ESO does not include mounts as they are all tied to the cash shop for extra $$$. 

Bottom line, for $10 less and arguably more if you play WoW with the extra $15/mo. and ESO+ for the crafting bag, you get VERY comparable value for your money. 

Edited by Marikus.1875
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5 hours ago, Marikus.1875 said:

Still seeing a lot of jaded folks complaining that this is more like a "patch" than an expansion for the price. Let me put things into perspective for those few that clearly do not venture outside of this game:

 

Elder Scrolls Online: Blackwood Expansion 

Price: $39.99 (digital upgrade) *optional monthly sub

- new main storyline

- 1 new zone

- 1 new core expansion feature: Companions

- 1 new trial

- new events "oblivion portals" similar to the OG Dolmens 

*dungeons not included because you have to buy them separately from the expac OR become a monthly sub

source: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/updates/chapter/blackwood

 

World of Warcraft: Shadowlands Expansion

Price: $39.99 (digital standard) + $14.99 mandatory monthly sub

- new main storyline

- 5 new zones

- 2 new core expansion features: Covenants & Torghast: Tower of the Damned (think roguelite) 

-1 new raid (which came a month after release)

-8 new dungeons

source: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/shadowlands

 

Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons

Price: $29.99 (digital standard) *NO monthly sub

new main storyline

- 4 new zones (tentative, we may have more)

- 3 new core expansion features: 

          - 1 new specialization per class

          - War turtle mount

          - Fishing profession & Skiffs mechanics

- 1 new strike mission (tentative, we may have more)

Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/end-of-dragons/

 

WoW launched with mounts included in the base game/sub, Shadowlands had the MOST mounts added out of any expansion. I did NOT include those because every single mount functions the exact same way and most are just recolors. A mount in GW2 on the other hand, is an actual new mechanic that changes gameplay and is therefore, a feature as they advertise it. 

ESO does not include mounts as they are all tied to the cash shop for extra $$$. 

Bottom line, for $10 less and arguably more if you play WoW with the extra $15/mo. and ESO+ for the crafting bag, you get VERY comparable value for your money. 

 

Get out of here with your examples! More feelings and citations from family members, please.

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5 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

I think it's just a weird coincidence that FFXIV is having a renaissance at the same time where ANet planned to take us back to Cantha, the one clearly Asian-themed part of the game world.

 

I can’t say for sure because I haven’t done the appropriate market analysis myself, but I wonder if WoW’s recent missteps are more responsible for that renaissance. I’m not sure swinging the game towards their aesthetic demographic would help GW2 since that’s not likely why those players migrated en masse.

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57 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

I can’t say for sure because I haven’t done the appropriate market analysis myself, but I wonder if WoW’s recent missteps are more responsible for that renaissance. I’m not sure swinging the game towards their aesthetic demographic would help GW2 since that’s not likely why those players migrated en masse.

That's definitely part of it. A lot of people are leaving WoW due to dissatisfaction (plus Blizzard's internal issues) and FFXIV is close to WoW's design so it's not a massive change, and if you're paying a sub for one game, paying a sub for another doesn't change things. Plus some big name streamers from WoW moved to FFXIV and brought their fans with them in the process.

So it's more of a coincidence than anything nefarious or secretive.

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