Will There Be A Place For Independent WvW Guilds That Don't Join An Alliance?

[Chichimec.9364]

Can I designate a guild as my WvW choice if they are not in an Alliance or will joining an Alliance be a prerequisite for being a WvW guild? Solo players will be assigned to a shard but will that also be true of a solo guild?

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Chichimec.9364

[Ubi.4136]

You will just be placed on a random world if you aren't part of an alliance guild.

[Chichimec.9364]

So if five of us designate GuildX as our WvW guild and it does not join an alliance, the five of us will be placed on a random world together? I hope that's the case. Has there been an official comment to that effect anywhere?

[Sviel.7493]

Just now, Chichimec.9364 said:

So if five of us designate GuildX as our WvW guild and it does not join an alliance, the five of us will be placed on a random world together? I hope that's the case. Has there been an official comment to that effect anywhere?

This is exactly correct per multiple dev comments.

[subversiontwo.7501]

Unless I misread  Ubi, I would say that he is mistaken. Sviel is right.

Read the blogpost. They just confirmed (what has been suggested all along) that:

• Guild = 1 to 500 players
• Alliance = 2 to 500 players

 It really doesn't matter whether your Guild is in an Alliance or not.

If things seem complicated, just think of an Alliance as a Guild and that is all you have to worry about.

Alliance = Guild. It's a simplification but it is close enough.

Do not confuse an Alliance with a World (Server, Shard), those are different things.

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501
I decided to cut down on the post, because it's 5am here and I realize the extra explanations may do more harm than good.

[Chichimec.9364]

Hehe, two directly contradictory posts coming in at the same time. I hope @Sviel.7493 is right.  EDIT: Actually they didn't contradict each other, I just misunderstood what they were saying. Thanks for taking the time to clear that up.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Chichimec.9364

[Sviel.7493]

From the post today:

Quote

Before a season begins, players can select which of their current guilds (and by extension, the alliance) they’d like to play with for that season.

This is consistent with everything we heard before.  You'll be matchmade with your chosen WvW guild.  If all of your friends choose the same guild, you'll all end up together.

I think @subversiontwo.7501 is saying the same thing.  He just added that your guild doesn't have to be in an alliance for this to work.

[Chichimec.9364]

4 minutes ago, Sviel.7493 said:

From the post today:

This is consistent with everything we heard before.  You'll be matchmade with your chosen WvW guild.  If all of your friends choose the same guild, you'll all end up together.

I think @subversiontwo.7501 is saying the same thing.  He just added that your guild doesn't have to be in an alliance for this to work.

Ah, got it. Much thanks for the clarification. 

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

Read the blogpost. They just confirmed (what has been suggested all along) that:

• Guild = 1 to 500 players
• Alliance = 2 to 500 players

 

An alliance would be 1-500 as well - assuming you can be in a 1 man guild and create a new alliance with that.

I mean it'd be pretty pointless to restrict it to 2, not sure where you got that from. A basic creation restriction for doing it would be a much higher number if they wanted to avoid "useless" alliances (say 50 man guilds min), but since it would be in the MM algorithm based on the members I dont really see why.

[SlateSloan.3654]

I think good players and guilds who join no alliance but keep independent in term of matchmaking will be a nice salt in the soup in the future as they can suddenly make a difference regarding win and loss and also help develope an alliances skill when they suddenly are on an alliances discord or ts. the locals have a chance to steadily learn by influencing guests from outside theirs alliance.

on the other side this random assignment may help solos and guilds to find a fix alliance they want to stay with and can do that then.

relax and enjoy the advantages of the new system later on.

always keep in mind: if an alliance always loses no matter what they try, they can always come to the conclusion to have tried hard and slit up to spread among other alliances. nothing is fix from the start till the end.

[Ubi.4136]

Yeah, I don't think we are saying different things, mine just doesn't explain the next step in sorting.  It will sort the same way that Lion's Arch does now iirc.  Which means, if your guild isn't an alliance guild you will just end up on a random world.  That said, the game also tries to "subsort" (not really a word I don't think) and look at your friends list and other guild lists and try to "sort" you on to the same random world, to the extent the game can.

[God.2708]

9 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

An alliance would be 1-500 as well - assuming you can be in a 1 man guild and create a new alliance with that.

I mean it'd be pretty pointless to restrict it to 2, not sure where you got that from. A basic creation restriction for doing it would be a much higher number if they wanted to avoid "useless" alliances (say 50 man guilds min), but since it would be in the MM algorithm based on the members I dont really see why.

I'd assume the distinction is mostly in terminology. You might be able to create an alliance, but is it really an alliance if it has only 1 person in it when an alliance is suppose to be two or more guilds?

[Dawdler.8521]

2 minutes ago, God.2708 said:

I'd assume the distinction is mostly in terminology. You might be able to create an alliance, but is it really an alliance if it has only 1 person in it when an alliance is suppose to be two or more guilds?

Yes, it is still an alliance since you'd have have an alliance to join an alliance. How else is a second guild (or any other number) able to join?

It would be a crappy one man alliance at that point but still. I mean a guild is supposed to be a group of players too. Not just 1. Yet we still call even a personal bank guild a guild.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[Zephyrus.9680]

From the blog post: "players can select which of their current guilds (and by extension, the alliance) they’d like to play with for that season"

 

In the upcoming phase 1 beta, alliances between guilds aren't a real thing yet. Every guild is "independent" but the players in that guild need to select that guild at the start of the match or else they'll likely get randomized into a different matchup, or the same but on an opposing side. 

 

It doesn't look like phase 2 changes this core system but it also adds the option for multiple guilds to choose to play together as long as the total number is under 500 players (subject to change). 

[StrangerDanger.3496]

So lets say my guild joins what ends up as the gate camped dumpster alliance.  What i just leave guild and go join the OP alliance?

 

My point is the WvW was suppose to avoid everyone trying to join the same over powered alliance.  I think its actually done that quite well aside from the fact that some servers might not have as many WvW people as others.

 

I havent heard anything on this being countered....whats to stop everyone a month into this from all migrating to the same alliance?

[God.2708]

5 minutes ago, StrangerDanger.3496 said:

So lets say my guild joins what ends up as the gate camped dumpster alliance.  What i just leave guild and go join the OP alliance?

 

My point is the WvW was suppose to avoid everyone trying to join the same over powered alliance.  I think its actually done that quite well aside from the fact that some servers might not have as many WvW people as others.

 

I havent heard anything on this being countered....whats to stop everyone a month into this from all migrating to the same alliance?

The exact same thing that stops this from happening right now?

[StrangerDanger.3496]

So changing servers now is just as easy as changing guilds and alliances will be in the new system?

[StrangerDanger.3496]

The answer appears to be "yes" but that yes is the game deciding your alliance for you, so long answer is no.  You join the alliances either way.

 

Would be *interesting* to incorporate neutral parties in this game mode that wouldnt be able to cap anything but maybe would be enemy to ALL alliance members (or sell their services ect)

 

Granted I dont want this to be like how it was in Darkfall with "renter" alliances of bad pvpers who pay for good mercs to take and hold areas for a fee. 

The concept of a neutral party that might intervene caused a lot of very entertaining social dynamics in the game that I did love.  Especially when rented mercs take both sides money and then cause chaos in an important fight.  Some of the more memorable moments ive ever had in a game.

Edited September 17, 2021 by StrangerDanger.3496

[gloflop.3510]

The question what will happen with solo-guilds is pretty good. Raiding guilds who would like to have a large variety of different enemies would do best if they do not go with another raiding guild in the same alliance. Then they would have theoretically limited the scope of their potential opponents least. They would be randomly linked with other raiding guilds and would sooner or later be able to fight all guilds. So, for such guilds, it would be best to remain a solo-guild. Whether there are enough alliances for all raiding guilds to go solo, would be the next question to the devs.