skiffis and fishing looks amazing and that aproblem?

[BadSanta.6527]

when i saw the live chat yesterday , i was empressed with the animation of skiffs and even fishing mechanisem look good , it seem that the dev's put alot of effored in there. but i honstly fear its a wase of resorce , we already got skimmers , and fishing is not must to have , it is just some thing for people who what to realx, for me fishing it is not appiling at all and ill be mad if iteam that i wanted will be gated by fishing, i just fear fishing and skiffs took to much resource which i prefere by far was invested in actual contact like pvp , new fracals , world boss and etc ,, 

i know iknow we dont know what EOD has , and i canot wait but i can not ignore my feeiling after that live chat like what a wase and i hope skiff and fishing is not the reason for the deliver delay. 

i know and trust arenet to deliver good expac like hot and pof but skiffs and fishing + the massive advertsing in that area is red flag.

[Vayne.8563]

I always love when people throw around the term actual content. Whether you like specific content or not, it's actual content. Collections are content for some people. World bosses are content for some people. Raids are content for some people. PvP is content for some people.

I can pretty much  guarantee more people will fish than will PvP.  For them, that will be real content. PvP is not content to people who don't ever go into PvP, and there are plenty of them.

 

Games have to have things for different groups of people. Fishing is for some of them. If it's not for you, I'm sure there will be bosses, meta events, and even new strike missions coming out with EoD.  

 

You're not going to like everything introduced in an MMO.

[Doggie.3184]

I wanna see some more of the physics they mentioned. First thing I'll be doing is crashing them and seeing if they'll launch. XD

[BadSanta.6527]

13 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I always love when people throw around the term actual content. Whether you like specific content or not, it's actual content. Collections are content for some people. World bosses are content for some people. Raids are content for some people. PvP is content for some people.

I can pretty much  guarantee more people will fish than will PvP.  For them, that will be real content. PvP is not content to people who don't ever go into PvP, and there are plenty of them.

 

Games have to have things for different groups of people. Fishing is for some of them. If it's not for you, I'm sure there will be bosses, meta events, and even new strike missions coming out with EoD.  

 

You're not going to like everything introduced in an MMO.

I disagree with 90 of what you where saying. 

I play all of the game modes and i know alot of people does. 

I dont say that you have to like at all but to be honest your comment is very condensanding .

People does not pick mmo for fishing yeha it is nice to have but it is not selling point

[Vayne.8563]

2 minutes ago, BadSanta.6527 said:

I disagree with 90 of what you where saying. 

I play all of the game modes and i know alot of people does. 

I dont say that you have to like at all but to be honest your comment is very condensanding .

People does not pick mmo for fishing yeha it is nice to have but it is not selling point

PvP isn't a selling point for most people. You claim I'm condescending but you're also saying in your first post that fishing isn't real content, thus dismissing everyone who likes it.  That is the very definition of condescending. You are judging people for not liking the content you like.  I guarantee you more people will fish than PvP in this game.  

[Doggie.3184]

7 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

PvP isn't a selling point for most people. You claim I'm condescending but you're also saying in your first post that fishing isn't real content, thus dismissing everyone who likes it.  That is the very definition of condescending. You are judging people for not liking the content you like.  I guarantee you more people will fish than PvP in this game.  

Careful, they might end up adding a WvW ocean map with boat combat.

[Vayne.8563]

42 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Careful, they might end up adding a WvW ocean map with boat combat.

Ship siege warfare? Naval battles? I'm all in. lol

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Games have to have things for different groups of people. Fishing is for some of them. If it's not for you, I'm sure there will be bosses, meta events, and even new strike missions coming out with EoD.  

That's the thing , so far, this "other" content which is designed for other players seems rather scarce.

Sure, we will have new metas and maps. Which is a great baseline to start with. We will also have new story content, again great. Yet judging by living world activity and completion as well as how well living world content is able to maintain this player base (which is 90% maps and metas basically with some achievements sprinkled in), not that well or we wouldn't be in need of an expansion, this is baseline stuff.

That's just it: fishing is not a bad addition. In fact I'd say it's a great fluff addition to the game.

It is a weak main attraction feature though.

Quote

You're not going to like everything introduced in an MMO.

Not necessary, but if players are not compelled by the main features highlighted, that might be a problem.

GW2 doesn't market in a bubble. There are competitors who advertise their MMORPGs. How well does fishing stack up to those trailers and features? That's where I am not so sure myself.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Dondarrion.2748]

Skiffs looked decent, some good details, but will it have a wow factor?

Fishing, as it stands, seems a bit meh.. the mini game will grow tedious if that's all there is to it. Will there be variations to it, depending on bait and lure, multiple levels of the mini game depending on rarity of the fish you have on the hook, something to add complexity to the little mini game we saw last night...

 

Just like housing, fishing as it stands, runs the risk of being something you do once for AP from collections and then become stale content... ofc, depending on rewards, but going back to fish the same fish in the same spots over and over, doesn't sound like it should be the major feature of an xpac.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Dondarrion.2748

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

That's the thing , so far, this "other" content which is designed for other players seems rather scarce.

Sure, we will have new metas and maps. Which is a great baseline to start with. We will also have new story content, again great. Yet judging by living world activity and completion as well as how well living world content is able to maintain this player base (which is 90% maps and metas basically with some achievements sprinkled in), not that well or we wouldn't be in need of an expansion, this is baseline stuff.

That's just it: fishing is not a bad addition. In fact I'd say it's a great fluff addition to the game.

It is a weak main attraction feature though.

Not necessary, but if players are not compelled by the main features highlighted, that might be a problem.

GW2 doesn't market in a bubble. There are competitors who advertise their MMORPGs. How well does fishing stack up to those trailers and features? That's where I am not so sure myself.

Guild Wars 2 has always advertised in a bubble. Always.  We had five years before we got our first mount. Most MMOs launch with mounts.  Have you looked at GW 2 advertising.  It's pretty basic.  Guild Wars 2 has been advertising via word of mouth for ages.

And you know, this is a 9 year old MMO.  I'm relatively sure that the vast majority of MMO players that wanted to try it have tried it already. They're not going to jump ship from their MMO to come to ours based on fishing, that's true. But I don't think many more people would have come for anything else that's left.  I don't think Tengu would have brought more people to the game. The possible exception is Housing, the one big MMO feature we don't have that frankly only some people care about.  
 

People think Guild Wars 2 is competing with WoW.  Or FF XIV. It's not. Oh some of them same people will play it, but those games are hard focused on PvE raid end game. This game isn't.  And if you want a game that does open world stuff right, there aren't many better games to turn to.

 

What do you think Anet could have added that would pry people away from games they're already invested in?

Edited September 11, 2021 by Vayne.8563

[Raknar.4735]

Fishing is for EoD what adventures and raids were for HoT. A side activity for a few people. Nothing wrong with that, and so far it looked good to me. I'm pretty sure fishing will also be more popular than the former two activities mentioned.

[Cyninja.2954]

13 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Guild Wars 2 has always advertised in a bubble. Always.  We had five years before we got our first mount. Most MMOs launch with mounts.  Have you looked at GW 2 advertising.  It's pretty basic.  Guild Wars 2 has been advertising via worth of mouth for ages.

And you know, this is a 9 year old MMO.  I'm relatively sure that the vast majority of MMO players that wanted to try it have tried it already. They're not going to jump ship from their MMO to come to ours based on fishing, that's true. But I don't think many more people would have come for anything else that's left.  I don't think Tengu would have brought more people to the game. The possible exception is Housing, the one big MMO feature we don't have that frankly only some people care about.  
 

People think Guild Wars 2 is competing with WoW.  Or FF XIV. It's not. Oh some of them same people will play it, but those games are hard focused on PvE raid end game. This game isn't.  And if you want a game that does open world stuff right, there aren't many better games to turn to.

 

What do you think Anet could have added that would pry people away from games they're already invested in?

 

True, but that's is like admitting that this game will basically fizzle out in 1-2 expansions. There is no continued long-term development for this game at current revenue levels with consideration that the game is continuing to age.

Which might very well be unavoidable. Some of us had held out hope that this might be averted.

For anyone assuming that a "it has work so far" approach is enough, it is not. Necessity for a new round of funding, heavy scaling down of the studio and revenue levels have made that very clear.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Cyninja.2954]

15 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Fishing is for EoD what adventures and raids were for HoT. A side activity for a few people. Nothing wrong with that, and so far it looked good to me. I'm pretty sure fishing will also be more popular than the former two activities mentioned.

 

Except raids were not the main attraction of HoT, nor were adventures.

[Vayne.8563]

5 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

True, but that's is like admitting that this game will basically fizzle out in 1-2 expansions. There is no continued long-term development for this game at current revenue levels with consideration that the game is continuing to age.

Which might very well be unavoidable. Some of us had held out hope that this might be averted.

For anyone assuming that a "it has work so far" approach is enough, it is not. Necessity for a new round of funding, heavy scaling down of the studio and revenue levels have made that very clear.

No it's not. It's like admitting that most of the people playing this game will be the ones playing it. There's enough of those people and word of mouth to keep the game going indefinitely.  I mean I'm not leaving the game because all I got was fishing and new elites specs, new zones, new story, new collections, new strike missions, Cantha.  

The game as a loyal core playerbase, with a lot of people popping in and out because there's no sub fee and a lot of people coming from other games when those other games kitten up.  It doesn't mean there can't be new expansions. It's just after the main feature are in the game, people will realize that there aren't that many features left to add, but the game still gets a swathe of new content. 

 

On top of what's in the box, we'll get some graphic updates, the alliance update, we just got the legendary armory.  Season of the Dragons meta seems to be popular. I'm just not so sure why people think a new feature from an expansion is going to be what keeps the game going long term.

Think of it another way.  If we start a new game, without all these features, we'd have to wait in those games, sometimes for a long time, to get those features implemented.  So at the end of the day you can start over somewhere else and wait for features we already have and we're enjoying, or you can go to another game and enjoy those new features you already have when they release them.

Do you think that we're not getting some WoW refugees these days, because I think we are. Not as much as FFXIV which is a similar game, but I think we're doing a good job of refreshing those player numbers.

You can keep going a long time as long as you get enough players to fill in to cover natural attrition.  And since there's no MMO I've played that has a combat system I like better and no game I've played with better mounts, and no game I've played that has open world content I like more, why would I leave? 

I think the game has found it's core constituency. It's not going to get much higher, but it'll be a long time before it gets much lower, that's my guess.

[Raknar.4735]

16 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Except raids were not the main attraction of HoT, nor were adventures.

Adventures no, but raids were on the promotional pages. Fishing and raids seem to take a similiar spot. Also tying legendary armour to raids, it was definitely a main attraction of HoT.

HoT: https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/#raids

EoD: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/end-of-dragons/ 

So yes, both are very similiar. A side activity for a few players 😉

Edited September 11, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[Cyninja.2954]

1 minute ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Adventures no, but raids were on the promotional pages. Fishing and raids seem to take a similiar spot.

HoT: https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/#raids

EoD: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/end-of-dragons/ 

 

 

Raids did not:

- make up the majority of promotional material pre expansion launch, neither did they take up this amount of resources

- were not a central design aspect or corner stone for the expansion. They were a new type of niche content, exactly what fishing SHOULD have been

 

Unless you want to tell me that raids took up the majority of promotional materials for HoT, which they did not.

 

That's just it, fishing SHOULD have been what raids were content wise, yet it is not.

[Raknar.4735]

5 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Raids did not:

- make up the majority of promotional material pre expansion launch, neither did they take up this amount of resources

- were not a central design aspect or corner stone for the expansion. They were a new type of niche content, exactly what fishing SHOULD have been

 

Unless you want to tell me that raids took up the majority of promotional materials for HoT, which they did not.

 

That's just it, fishing SHOULD have been what raids were content wise, yet it is not.

 

For a niche content, they took plenty or resources. Legendary armour that took forever, sound department, animators etc. had to be included. Already sounds more than what they showed with fishing and the few collections on stream. It got a trailer just like fishing, its own page on the selling/promotional page etc.

Oh well, not that it matters if you agree, since you are vehemently against it. Fishing just fills the same type of niche raids did back then, most likely even a bigger niche.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[Cyninja.2954]

21 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

No it's not. It's like admitting that most of the people playing this game will be the ones playing it. There's enough of those people and word of mouth to keep the game going indefinitely.  I mean I'm not leaving the game because all I got was fishing and new elites specs, new zones, new story, new collections, new strike missions, Cantha.  

You are not making up the majority of this games revenue and enough players have been jumping ship. In fact, without the pandemic bump in revenue, things might be even worse for the game.

Quote

The game as a loyal core playerbase, with a lot of people popping in and out because there's no sub fee and a lot of people coming from other games when those other games kitten up.  It doesn't mean there can't be new expansions. It's just after the main feature are in the game, people will realize that there aren't that many features left to add, but the game still gets a swathe of new content.

Hasn't been sufficient in the past to not require additional funding and the game is growing older.

Quote

On top of what's in the box, we'll get some graphic updates, the alliance update, we just got the legendary armory.  Season of the Dragons meta seems to be popular. I'm just not so sure why people think a new feature from an expansion is going to be what keeps the game going long term.

Sure, those features might be helpful and they are being promoted luckily. Hopefully they are enough.

Quote

Think of it another way.  If we start a new game, without all these features, we'd have to wait in those games, sometimes for a long time, to get those features implemented.  So at the end of the day you can start over somewhere else and wait for features we already have and we're enjoying, or you can go to another game and enjoy those new features you already have when they release them.

True, except that new games have a clean slate to start off of, have newer tech in general and have more hype to start out with.

It's a give and take with new launches.

I'm not comparing this game to new laucnhes though but rather to older games of same age, most of which are slowly passing this games performance and revenue.

Quote

Do you think that we're not getting some WoW refugees these days, because I think we are. Not as much as FFXIV which is a similar game, but I think we're doing a good job of refreshing those player numbers.

Oh I am sure we will be getting some players from WoW. It's not a good sign though if this games success relies on their competitors messing up this badly.

Quote

You can keep going a long time as long as you get enough players to fill in to cover natural attrition.  And since there's no MMO I've played that has a combat system I like better and no game I've played with better mounts, and no game I've played that has open world content I like more, why would I leave? 

 

Again, you are not making up a significant enough part of the player base to count as an argument and the financial development does not support the argument that YOUR SUBJECTIVE approach is mirrored by enough players.

Quote

I think the game has found it's core constituency. It's not going to get much higher, but it'll be a long time before it gets much lower, that's my guess.

It's going to drop the moment the expansion has launched, as it has with every expansion and content drop before.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Cyninja.2954]

7 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

 

For a niche content, they took plenty or resources. Legendary armour that took forever, sound department, animators etc. had to be included. Already sounds more than what they showed with fishing and the few collections on stream. It got a trailer just like fishing, its own page on the selling/promotional page etc.

Oh well, not that it matters if you agree, since you are vehemently against it. Fishing just fills the same type of niche raids did back then, most likely even a bigger niche.

I'm not against it. I explained clearly what my issue is with putting fishing as primary expansion feature into the spotlight.

You might want to rain back your raid hate though because it is clouding your judgement and arguments. We know how little resources raids took up. No point in making up stuff on your part. We also know what other content was released with HoT which was significantly larger than EoD currently seems to be (be it mastery lines, new tech, firest time implementation of elites, etc.).

Raids were niche content which got some advertisement pre HoT. Fishing is niche content which is sold as main feature.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[shrew.3059]

3 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Again, you are not making up a significant enough part of the player base to count as an argument and the financial development does not support the argument that YOUR SUBJECTIVE approach is mirrored by enough players.

 

If your approach is not subjective, do you have numbers to back up any of your claims? Or are we just crashing subjective interpretations into each other for fun?

[Vayne.8563]

2 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

You are not making up the majority of this games revenue and enough players have been jumping ship. In fact, without the pandemic bump in revenue, things might be even worse for the game.

Hasn't been sufficient in the past to not require additional funding and the game is growing older.

 

Sure, those features might be helpful and they are being promoted luckily. Hopefully they are enough.

 

 

True, except that new games have a clean slate to start off of, have newer tech in general and have more hype to start out with.

 

It's a give and take with new launches.

 

I'm not comparing this game to new laucnhes though but rather to older games of same age, most of which are slowly passing this games performance and revenue.

 

Oh I am sure we will be getting some players from WoW. It's not a good sign though if this games success relies on their competitors messing up this badly.

 

Again, you are not making up a significant enough part of the player base to count as an argument and the financial development does not support the argument that YOUR SUBJECTIVE approach is mirrored by enough players.

 

It's going to drop the moment the expansion has launched, as it has with every expansion and content drop before.

 

You know, hype hurts more new games than it helps. Anthem had hype. Cyberpunk had hype. The newest Fallout had hype. It wasn't helpful. This game will go on fine. Don't believe me?  Talk to me again in five years. lol

[Cyninja.2954]

3 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

If your approach is not subjective, do you have numbers to back up any of your claims? Or are we just crashing subjective interpretations into each other for fun?

All the NCSoft quarterly revenue reports and the 119 million dollar reinvestment into NCWest in 2019.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[shrew.3059]

2 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Raids were niche content which got some advertisement pre HoT. Fishing is niche content which is sold as main feature.

 

I don’t think GW2 will succeed trying to beat WoW and FF14 in their niche, they have to find a way to differentiate themselves. While a part of me feels fishing doesn’t seem like a main expansion feature, I’m subconsciously comparing that to expansions in the aforementioned sub games. GW2 has a totally different business model, and therefore their expansions serve a different purpose.

[Cyninja.2954]

1 minute ago, Vayne.8563 said:

You know, hype hurts more new games than it helps. Anthem had hype. Cyberpunk had hype. The newest Fallout had hype. It wasn't helpful. This game will go on fine. Don't believe me?  Talk to me again in five years. lol

Sure, let's hope for the best. I love the game. I'm just past the amount of copium one has to take to blindly have faith in every kitten we get presented.

[Cyninja.2954]

1 minute ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

I don’t think GW2 will succeed trying to beat WoW and FF14 in their niche, they have to find a way to differentiate themselves. While a part of me feels fishing doesn’t seem like a main expansion feature, I’m subconsciously comparing that to expansions in the aforementioned sub games. GW2 has a totally different business model, and therefore their expansions serve a different purpose.

Lol WoW and FF14. I'm not even aiming that high.

 

Try Aion, SWToR or ESO first revenue wise. Would be nice to at least stay ahead of those, not to mention literally any other NCSoft MMORPG, some of which are way older than GW2.