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So GW2 is casual friendly?


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11 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

What does this have to do with the point I'm making? Dodging has nothing to do with being lazy or not. Again, for the casual player, it's about familiarity. I mean, maybe you define casual players are 'lazy' ... seems you got a axe to grind. 

Again, my point isn't an attack on casual players being 'lazy' or anything like that. My point is that casual-friendly games have mechanics that are made familiar to players thorough constant exposure. If you want to accuse people of being lazy, I most CERTAINLY don't see room for that in this thread.

if they filled the game with dodging from the starter zones, casuals would leave en masse.

you think, that casuals dont KNOW about dodging. they do. but they just prefer not to use it

and when the game fills the screen with mobs and particle effects and boss mechanics, they simply miss the cue

to dodge at the right time. and they wont stick around for a 3rd or 4th try. after the 2nd wipe, they realize, that this isnt content for them, and they find something else to do.

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Hello, Beware spoiler ahead for LW content. First post because it is 2:37 am and I just defeated Caudecus in LW S3. So, here is a feedback, I finished Vanilla content with my personal stor

There is no mmo as close to being as casual friendly as gw2. The confusion is trying to equate casual with easy which do not mean the same thing. There are difficulty spikes and the game often does a

Casual friendly doesn't mean the game's easy (and to be fair, there's something like 40 maps that are super easy). Casual friendly means you don't have to hardcore grind for gear, you aren't forced to

9 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Properly designed games with an actual difficulty curve  say otherwise.  ANet wanted the difficulty spike without any of the work leading up to the spike.  Climbing up 1000ft of stairs is easier than climbing  a 1000ft of a sheer vertical wall and  ANEe added a pretty big wall without any of the build-up to said wall.

 

 

They did though.  Orr used to have packs of risen everywhere.  Would  have made it a fantastic farming map these days but now it sits in irrelevancy as new farms have replaced  all of it. (Even Siren's Landing is better for farming Orr related  materials)

nope, HoT is so different from the core game, that it might as well be a different game all together.

we can speculate all we want, but there are simple ways to measure the success

if its good, people will flock to it, and they will be motivated to make more of the same

i was there at launch and i saw the bloodbath and the map chat lighting up with anger

even a dead goldfish could had seen the consequences of that

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20 minutes ago, battledrone.8315 said:

nope, HoT is so different from the core game, that it might as well be a different game all together.

we can speculate all we want, but there are simple ways to measure the success

if its good, people will flock to it, and they will be motivated to make more of the same

i was there at launch and i saw the bloodbath and the map chat lighting up with anger

even a dead goldfish could had seen the consequences of that

*Sigh*

The initial release of GW2 saw the open world as too easy, the dungeons as too hard, even after toning them down.  The mechanics for the bosses in dungeons were undefined.  Sometimes they'd have blockable projectile attacks, other times they'd have big aoes that  one shot kill with minimal tells.  The only good boss back then was Giganticus Lupicus all because the fight was fair.  It was easier to take down in a group, but you could also solo it.  Everything it did had a telegraph that you could see  coming  well before it hit you.  No other boss seemed to have t hat design philosophy and it really showed throughout HoT  when ANet tried to make everything difficult without following that design philosophy.  The game wasn't built with 50 man zergs and culling of mobs doing their big one shot move (Hello snipers, Axemaster Hareth's & Blademaster Diarmid's spin, and that annoying blackhole spell the sage has.)  You can't bring that sort of difficulty and design out in the open when the following problems still persist:
 

A lack of clarity of enemy moves because they're  repeatedly culled in favor of displaying allies (This is still an ongoing issue.  In raids, certain enemies won't load but mesmer clones that aren't even yours will.  In open world, that sniper charging their big shot won't load but the big charr with 3048908 infusions slotted and wings will)


Visual clutter obscuring what the enemy is doing (It's not so much a problem in 5 man content but it becomes problematic when there's about 7 or more players)

A lack of  an actual curve  up to the difficulty.  (Which is still a problem since the steps are so disjointed and added out of order and in different game releases)

See a good game with  a good difficulty curve needs the following:
A clear pattern to pick up on be it animations or just an attack  pattern.
Teach through play  on  how to do things.  Introduce mechanics  one at a time, then reward experimentation for mixing the abilities/mechanics.
Quick resets.



 

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10 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said:

if they filled the game with dodging from the starter zones, casuals would leave en masse.

you think, that casuals dont KNOW about dodging. they do. but they just prefer not to use it

and when the game fills the screen with mobs and particle effects and boss mechanics, they simply miss the cue

to dodge at the right time. and they wont stick around for a 3rd or 4th try. after the 2nd wipe, they realize, that this isnt content for them, and they find something else to do.

Casual or not, if you don't like dodging you are playing the wrong game.  It's a defining feature of action combat systems and this is an action combat game.

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On 10/11/2021 at 10:01 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

They most certainly paid and continue to pay for that mistake as well. 

They learned from this mistake, as a lot of the instanced content has "pre" -encounters that introduce you to the mechanics. One of the best examples would be wing 1 of Forsaken Thicket. Onward, EoD has a fully committed tutorial area for new and returning players (which they should include in the core Tyria later on, honestly).

 

On 10/11/2021 at 10:01 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

If  CC isn't a significant part of what a casual player will encounter in a game, then they will NEVER strafe or understand that encounter enough to know what to do. Even as an experienced gamer ... if I hardly encounter a mob I need to CC, even if I'm aware of CC and barbreaking, I'm unlikely to include it as a feature of my build.

Learning and absorbing information for later usage is a core part of most, if not all, game experiences. Just saying. You can't lay it _all_ on the devs.

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45 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Learning and absorbing information for later usage is a core part of most, if not all, game experiences.  You can't lay it _all_ on the devs.

True, but the point that I'm making here is that if that if a mechanic is not a consistent part of the game, it will not be integrated into the gameplay of a casual player. 

It's actually REALLY easy to lay this ALL on the devs because if someone thinks a single, avoidable dodge tutorial is going to be enough to have a casual player learn a mechanic they don't need for another 79 levels, that someone hasn't put much critical thinking into that game experience. 

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The real difficult on caudecus inst really the mechanics, but the visual spam. the mechanic is simple, also its helps disable auto-aoe target. But the visual spam is so huge and make first time on this encounter very confuse.

 

Another recurrent problem in encounters is to players who like auto-target, when the encounter requires u hit a "target" that inst focused by the autotarget system, the u keep hiting trash mobs;.

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1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

True, but the point that I'm making here is that if that if a mechanic is not a consistent part of the game, it will not be integrated into the gameplay of a casual player. 

It's actually REALLY easy to lay this ALL on the devs because if someone thinks a single, avoidable dodge tutorial is going to be enough to have a casual player learn a mechanic they don't need for another 79 levels, that someone hasn't put much critical thinking into that game experience. 

theres no tutorial enough for the huge visual noise of caudecus encounter. also is a problem for every boss which envolves bloodstone mechanics.

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1 minute ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

theres no tutorial enough for the huge visual noise of caudecus encounter. also is a problem for every boss which envolves bloodstone mechanics.

Sure ... there are other problems too. That doesn't change what I'm saying or have anything to do with my point. 

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2 hours ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

The real difficult on caudecus inst really the mechanics, but the visual spam. the mechanic is simple, also its helps disable auto-aoe target. But the visual spam is so huge and make first time on this encounter very confuse.

 

Another recurrent problem in encounters is to players who like auto-target, when the encounter requires u hit a "target" that inst focused by the autotarget system, the u keep hiting trash mobs;.

It wouldn't be an "issue" whatsoever if the space wasn't so tight. GW2 shines when you have space to maneuver.

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46 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

It wouldn't be an "issue" whatsoever if the space wasn't so tight. GW2 shines when you have space to maneuver.

Yeah. Almost every fight in that mission is in a cramped space that makes it more punishing than equivalent battles in other parts of the story.

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4 hours ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

It wouldn't be an "issue" whatsoever if the space wasn't so tight. GW2 shines when you have space to maneuver.

This!

I recently fought Smoldge with a couple people in Istan, in one of those tar craters. The sides are steep, once inside you can’t get up them. The ground is also very broken up, which means you often find yourself stuck on short pieces of terrain when moving or dodging. Add to that a ton of overlapping AOE. With limited ability to strafe or dodge out, it felt like I suddenly lost the main tools I’d been given to survive.

Tight spaces, whether confined or narrow heights, are a huge pain because movement and dodging is so key.

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18 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Casual or not, if you don't like dodging you are playing the wrong game.  It's a defining feature of action combat systems and this is an action combat game.

dodging is fine, if used sparingly, and if the cues are obvious. DCUO does it much better IMO. 

so im playing that instead. there was a bit of rage from the hardcores, because they are sending us back to the old 

raids to collect upgrades for the  new allies system, but i think that its a great idea.

 

 

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1 hour ago, battledrone.8315 said:

dodging is fine, if used sparingly, and if the cues are obvious. DCUO does it much better IMO. 

so im playing that instead. there was a bit of rage from the hardcores, because they are sending us back to the old 

raids to collect upgrades for the  new allies system, but i think that its a great idea.

 

 

I'm happy they added an indicator to Steve's chainsaw thrust. Now I don't have to wonder if I'm one cm too close to his backside. There's a few attacks like that in the game, and they can be a source of frustration, particularly if going solo.

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Played the old Caduceus Manor dungeon (friend needed some of the currency) and now I think half of the annoyance you're experiencing in Season 3 'Head of the Snake' is derived from them reusing the scenery and enemy designs from there. It's cramped quarters and a lot of the enemies have a big bursty attack they just sort of blast you with all at once, immediately on sight.

It's just kind of an annoying area in general, messy and not really tuned right. You're done with it now, don't sweat it.

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