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How to counter rev?


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28 minutes ago, TheDarkness.6947 said:

 

Mostly been playing LR Tempest.  Occasionally core necro MM, mostly to learn its weaknesses.

Imagine LR weaver complaining about prev… right u are tempest.

Prev is weak to condis and cc.

Edited by Filip.7463
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2 hours ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

As a tempest, you’re a team fighter in general so you might wanna ask yourself if 1v1ing a rev is the right thing to be doing at that moment. If you want to sidenode then I would recommend trying fire weaver.

He is LR, not support. He can duel. Its a bit worse version of LR weaver…

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The basic way to fight Revs is to recognize their three main weaknesses:

1. Extremely obvious animations. The "just dodge" meme is true for dealing with most classes and builds, but for fighting Rev it's significantly more true. There comes a point where you just gotta accept that your failure to dodge/block when you see massive dragon wings taking up half your screen it's entirely your own fault.

2. Poor CC management. Revs have poor stab access. Revs stunbreaks  are either very high energy cost, and thus using them means they are giving up the ability to do much for the next few seconds, or it's the fury facet. This means "Just interrupt" is also added to "just dodge" and "Just block".  In fact a surefire way to beat 99% of rev players you see out there is to CC them ( even if it's just a daze ) the instant right after they use phase traverse.  

3. Poor condi clear.  Revs thus have a similar weakness to thief in that they generally cannot get away with just standing in passive condi AoEs, even if those AoEs aren't very strong. 

Edited by Master Ketsu.4569
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54 minutes ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

3. Poor condi clear.  Revs thus have a similar weakness to thief in that they generally cannot get away with just standing in passive condi AoEs, even if those AoEs aren't very strong. 

 

This is especially true after the resistance rework. Yes, I know we're talking about power rev, but the resistance uptime on a mallyx rev could be a solid sidenoder if the people coming to defend the node were condi builds. So it was a weird niche build/use that could handle condi in the past, and now they don't even have that.

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6 hours ago, Yakuzai.6593 said:

What makes revs run so fast? Whenever i encounter a rev and win a duel, they are soo fast in running away as if they have superspeed but when i check the boon bar they just have swiftness - is it a trait that gives extra movement speed or a rune?

Impossible Odds gives them 50% move-speed boost
Glint elite gives them super-speed for 5s ( only 35s cd )
peram swiftness
 

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You should have no difficulties 1v1'ing anyone ele regardless of being weaver/tempest/core, i can give no advice because ele is such a wonderful 1v1'er too much to say.

This is 100% an L2P issue far too many ways in your toolkit to beat revs that i care to cover them all in this thread i recommend you goto HotM arena and watch those plat ele's 1v1 everything.

Edited by Genesis.5169
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3 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

You should have no difficulties 1v1'ing anyone ele regardless of being weaver/tempest/core, i can give no advice because ele is such a wonderful 1v1'er too much to say.

This is 100% an L2P issue far too many ways in your toolkit to beat revs that i care to cover them all in this thread i recommend you goto HotM arena and watch those plat ele's 1v1 everything.

 

I have no doubt there is more for me to learn, which is why I’m here asking questions.  At least I’m not asking for nerfs and removal of game mechanics, hey?

 

If you’re telling me a tempest is a strong 1v1’er,, that means my skill gap is even bigger than I thought it was.  I’m not sure whether to feel encouraged by that or overwhelmed by how much I don’t know apparently.

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What I do on my reaper, is exactly this:

Most revs will open up in sword and try to land a burst with their sword 4/5 combo. Dodge this…so when they teleport to you: insta dodge.

After they do this, they will try to go for the sword 3, which is the thing where they flutter around you like a butterfly. This you can also dodge or pop a defense for.

The moment their sword 3 flutter attack is done, they are now playing defensively. So usually during their evasion attack I like to enter shroud, precast my shroud 5 and smash them with a stun once their evade is done…land as many autos as I can and this will force them to swap weapons and swap legend to glint.

If you do enough damage they will usually panic and immediately hit glint. This is where you stop attacking to starve them of healing, and also where you can begin mind games and assert dominance.

At this point they will either disengage, or they will cycle through their defenses to wait out enough time to do a last ditch counter attack against you. If they are cycling defenses…which would be staff 5, staff 3, Glint 5…followed by Shiro evades…don’t blow your cooldowns just pressure them until they do their burst again. You know they will do a burst again when they swap from glint into shiro so that’s when you get ready to dodge like you did in the beginning, and then do the final killing blow.

Edited by JusticeRetroHunter.7684
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12 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

The basic way to fight Revs is to recognize their three main weaknesses:

1. Extremely obvious animations. The "just dodge" meme is true for dealing with most classes and builds, but for fighting Rev it's significantly more true. There comes a point where you just gotta accept that your failure to dodge/block when you see massive dragon wings taking up half your screen it's entirely your own fault.

You mean the one they can stow at any point and still get the full animation?

Quote

2. Poor CC management. Revs have poor stab access. Revs stunbreaks  are either very high energy cost, and thus using them means they are giving up the ability to do much for the next few seconds, or it's the fury facet. This means "Just interrupt" is also added to "just dodge" and "Just block".  In fact a surefire way to beat 99% of rev players you see out there is to CC them ( even if it's just a daze ) the instant right after they use phase traverse.  

3. Poor condi clear.  Revs thus have a similar weakness to thief in that they generally cannot get away with just standing in passive condi AoEs, even if those AoEs aren't very strong. 

 

Edited by agrippastrilemma.8741
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On 9/13/2021 at 7:35 AM, TheDarkness.6947 said:

Revs seem really strong.  Heavy armor, good health pool, high damage at range.  There must be a weak spot in that armor somewhere?

 

It depends on the revenant you're fighting.

You mentioned high damage at range, so I assume you were fighting a renegade. They're kind of oppressive at distance, but as long as you are not standing in Darkrazor's Daring or Icerazor's Ire, this is workable, and their shortbow is pretty clunky up close. Do not allow them to freecast on you from range by blocking yourself with obstacles and pillars, and learn the above two AOE appearances so you know when to move away. 

If they run away from you, be careful when chasing, because they can fire a cc shot that knocks you down while running in the opposite direction. 

Revenants do have heavy armor, but they have atrocious condition removal. Since their Corruption traitline got nerfed recently, this is true for most builds you will see normally. Because of this, running condi as an ele will be your best bet. 

An undodged Signet of Fire can wreak havoc on their HP pool if it is condi jammed with other conditions. If you are finding yourself harassed by projectiles as tempest, Sand Squall, a completed Overload Earth, or Magnetic Wave will give you small openings to get in close while shutting down their shortbow. You can also, if you make it into range of them, drop Swirling Winds on top of them to disable their shortbow and Icerazor's Ire. 

Tempest in general is not very comfortable for specific 1v1s, but condi weaver/condi ele might be. Again, it depends on the revenant you are fighting. if you're fighting a power herald, you'll be more suitable as a condi weaver because you will pulse conditions a short radius around you by using Primordial Stance. If you're fighting a renegade, you will be more suitable as a condi tempest, provided you have obstacles to suppress fire with and make use of magnetic aura well.

Both flavors are annoyed by conditions.  

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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41 minutes ago, Valik Shin.9027 said:

How do I counter Rev on a warrior?

see above for what I mentioned on renegades. Warriors have the same problem vs projectiles, so you will need obstacles to frustrate any revs running shortbow. Don't feel like you need to entertain someone who has committed to using a ranged weapon in the open. They picked that weapon for its benefits, and they should expect to be handicapped by its drawbacks whenever possible. Make it just as annoying for them to use it as it is for you to be hit by it, and be proud of doing that well.

For the power oriented ones, the formula is:

* learn when Unrelenting Assault ends. Revenants that are gold ranked or under often do not expect to be targeted through this move, and use it to fill gaps in cds or to force damage. If you can perfect lining up stuns so that they connect the moment this move ends, you can force them to use Gaze of Darkness  or Riposting Shadows.

* Learn the animations associated with both Gaze of Darkness and Riposting as well. if they use the former one, play defensively until your blind is up. if they use the latter one, they are out of energy and will need to eat all damage if cced again, if they just swapped legends. You can win the matchups vs power revs by forcing them to make that second decision, then expecting it. You can throw another layer on that by watching for Infuse light and not attacking them for 2 seconds the moment you see it go off. CCs are fine. 

If a revenant is plat or above, they may expect to be targeted through unrelenting assault. if they do, they will either use Gaze of Darkness at the end of their assault, knowing that it will blind you and give them a window to do something else, or dodge (plat and above revs that own that rating through skill wont riposting unless pressured, because of the above energy cost, so do not expect it.). you can overcome this layer by taking Brawler's Recovery and waiting with the weapon opposite of the one you want to attack them with out, then swapping to your intended weapon the moment gaze goes off so you instaclear the blind (you can take a cleansing sigil on the weapon you intend to punish them with to also deal with the vulnerability they put on you for using that). If they dodge, you may use what you wish if you have expected it.

*Learn the animation and the range requirement of Phase traversal. Again, revenants that are gold and under will expect this to be free damage and often pair it with Deathstrike. if you have a cc off cooldown, the moment you see the animation, understand that they are committed to the skill and -will appear right next to you.- That means:

*you can start a cc where you are, with them targeted, knowing full well it will hit them*

*you can dodge and avoid death strike

*you can use a burst and force them to eat it

*you can block and then counterpressure. 

if any of those situations happen, follow the advice about stunbreak protocol above. If they're plat and above, they will likely be monitoring your cc and cooldowns, so you may need to pretend to do one option, then do another. 

 

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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