Now that Joko is finally dead for everyone, Long live the lich, it's time for Shiro Tagachi

[YourOnlyOne.4937]

We don't know if we'll ever see Shiro Tagachi again but the last information about him was from GW1 and the wiki said his current location is "unknown".

For those familiar with Shiro Tagachi, we all know he is another soul that will not stay dead. If given a chance, he will come back to life and, let's all admit it, he is better than Palawa Joko in all accounts.

So … should ANet bring back Shiro Tagachi? Why or why not?

Hail Shiro!

Edited September 13, 2021 by Shael.4703

[voltaicbore.8012]

No, for me.

Shiro is currently a spirit that revenants can call on, and even talk to from time to time. Not sure I'd want to see another weird lore complication introduced by having a spirit version of Shiro with revenants, then have a returning version of Shiro walking around doing other things.

Edited September 13, 2021 by voltaicbore.8012

[Astralporing.1957]

Remember, that based on most GW1 callbacks we've had so far, if he is brought back, it will be just so we can see him getting killed (or otherwise removed from picture) in the next episode. Or in the very same episode, if they're in a hurry.

[Pifil.5193]

38 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

No, for me.

Shiro is currently a spirit that revenants can call on, and even talk to from time to time. Not sure I'd want to see another weird lore complication introduced by having a spirit version of Shiro with revenants, then have a returning version of Shiro walking around doing other things.

Yep, as Shiro is a Revenant Legend we can pretty much guarantee that his "current location" is "in the Mists". Mystery solved.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Pifil.5193

[Noah Salazar.5430]

His not dead, just got isekai as japance anime protagonist 

Dont spread lies!

Edited September 13, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430

[DeanBB.4268]

I'm rather tired of the regurgitated GW1 stuff. Can't we just move on already?

And yes, I played GW1 from the beginning, so it's not that. I'd just rather see new things than old things brought back to life for nostalgia.

[Ashantara.8731]

I don't want to see another great GW1 lore piece butchered in GW2.

So NO for me.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[codedbykush.2019]

5 hours ago, Shael.4703 said:

 his current location is "unknown".

Shiro is in the mists.

Source: Any rev player.

Edited September 13, 2021 by codedbykush.2019

[Doggie.3184]

If they dont ruin his character with a nonsensical plot like they did Balthazar.

Maybe just a flashback Fractal like the Abaddon one we were denied, or just mentions of him or followers influenced by his history. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Doggie.3184

[draxynnic.3719]

It's curious that the wiki said his current location is unknown. His spirit was sent to the Realm of Torment, where we proceeded to destroy him again. This is where the phrase 'deader than dead' is probably accurate - we didn't just kill him, we followed him to the hell-plane his soul was sent to and destroyed that too. 

 

It's worth noting that ArenaNet specifically mentioned that legends don't necessarily draw from the actual spirit of the individual, but on an imprint that individual left on the Mists. There's probably a Shiro fractal somewhere and that's what Shiro revenants are drawing from.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

41 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

It's curious that the wiki said his current location is unknown. His spirit was sent to the Realm of Torment, where we proceeded to destroy him again. This is where the phrase 'deader than dead' is probably accurate - we didn't just kill him, we followed him to the hell-plane his soul was sent to and destroyed that too. 

 

It's worth noting that ArenaNet specifically mentioned that legends don't necessarily draw from the actual spirit of the individual, but on an imprint that individual left on the Mists. There's probably a Shiro fractal somewhere and that's what Shiro revenants are drawing from.

This, I can not emphasize the above enough.  Revs don't commune with the actual spirits of a legendary individual or entity, but the echo or imprint that individual left on the Mists.

[voltaicbore.8012]

1 hour ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

This, I can not emphasize the above enough.  Revs don't commune with the actual spirits of a legendary individual or entity, but the echo or imprint that individual left on the Mists.

Thanks Grey, and @draxynnic.3719 as well. Rev is among my least played classes, and I didn't know/remember this tidbit about them.

Still opposed to seeing Shiro again though. It's not just ANet - other studios sometimes fall into the habit of resurrecting too many big names from their game worlds' pasts, and it rarely works out well. It usually ends up trampling on whatever made those characters compelling in the first place.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

2 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

Thanks Grey, and @draxynnic.3719 as well. Rev is among my least played classes, and I didn't know/remember this tidbit about them.

Still opposed to seeing Shiro again though. It's not just ANet - other studios sometimes fall into the habit of resurrecting too many big names from their game worlds' pasts, and it rarely works out well. It usually ends up trampling on whatever made those characters compelling in the first place.

Agreed.  Shiro was killed by the players in GW1 not once but twice, and the second time it was effectively his spirit that was killed.  His echos in the Mists should really be all that's left of him.

[Telgum.6071]

I'll vote yes because I love the thematic and story of Shiro Tagachi, but honestly, bringing back characters from death is something I never liked, be Guild Wars 2 or any other game.

[Astralporing.1957]

16 hours ago, codedbykush.2019 said:

Shiro is in the mists.

Source: Any rev player.

I don't trust anything rev players claim to have seen. They're all blind anyway.

[radda.8920]

No thank you, do not touch this mythical character of gw1, I want to keep a good image of him.

After what they did to Lazarus, Joko and even Balthazar which was exploited very badly .. Just no thanks.

Especially with the current arena team ...

[ASP.8093]

I'm not one of those people who's like "oh no, you reused an old character!" but, uhhh, he's double-dead and in hell. There are very few ways you could make him more dead.

[Dami.5046]

I don't see why we couldn't at least have a flash back, nice to let the new players have some understanding of the world how it was in GW, but don't let Aurene eat him pleaase.

[voltaicbore.8012]

5 hours ago, Dami.5046 said:

I don't see why we couldn't at least have a flash back, nice to let the new players have some understanding of the world how it was in GW, but don't let Aurene eat him pleaase.

I would support this. I think ANet has ample in-game mechanisms to do it, between fractals and the scrying pool. If they feel the need to revisit something, I always consider fractals and the scrying pool the first things they should consider using.

[Teratus.2859]

I'm voting yes.

BUT!! not as a revived big bad who we'll fight in the story or something.

When I say "Yes" to bringing back Shiro I mean specifically doing it in the format of a Fractal or Strike Mission.
Time is something we can play around with in the mists, allowing us to re-live certain events from the past such as the Charr invading Ascalon or discovering what happened at the Thermanova reactor etc.

There are many events in the history of Tyria that can be made into Fractals or Mists based Strike missions, Remaking Shiro's fall at the end of Gw1 Fractals would be a fun one to see in Gw2, or they could go back further to his original death and we could get to see the events that lead to the unleashing of the Jade Wind.

[BobbyT.7192]

On 9/13/2021 at 12:10 PM, voltaicbore.8012 said:

No, for me.

Shiro is currently a spirit that revenants can call on, and even talk to from time to time. Not sure I'd want to see another weird lore complication introduced by having a spirit version of Shiro with revenants, then have a returning version of Shiro walking around doing other things.

That kinda already happen neat the end of season 4. They made it seem like Glint was more involved with the fight with Kralkatorrik than just voices in your head even tho you do not really see her.

Being part of the reverant doesn't mean they don't get to be part of the story plot.

Edited September 15, 2021 by BobbyT.7192

[Szczekal.4325]

1 hour ago, BobbyT.7192 said:

That kinda already happen neat the end of season 4. They made it seem like Glint was more involved with the fight with Kralkatorrik than just voices in your head even tho you do not really see her.

Being part of the reverant doesn't mean they don't get to be part of the story plot.

We have another example of this: Revs can use Joko stance to escape from Joko's prison.  And he wasn't even dead (I think, with Lich it's hard to tell).

[Faridah.8431]

No they shouldn't. The Cantha story should tread new ground. 

Not only was Shiro the main antagonist of Factions, they then brought him back as an antagonist (along with the Lich) towards the end of Nightfall (second to last mission if I recall, within the Realm of Torment that he was imprisoned).

No we do not need him to come back a third time. His presence as a revenant legend is fine and should not progress past that.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Faridah.8431

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 9/13/2021 at 11:07 AM, Shael.4703 said:

We don't know if we'll ever see Shiro Tagachi again but the last information about him was from GW1 and the wiki said his current location is "unknown".

For those familiar with Shiro Tagachi, we all know he is another soul that will not stay dead. If given a chance, he will come back to life and, let's all admit it, he is better than Palawa Joko in all accounts.

So … should ANet bring back Shiro Tagachi? Why or why not?

Hail Shiro!

Correction: The wiki says the fate of his soul is unknown. This is just a reference to how in GW1, it is unclear what happens to souls when they're "killed". GW2 ended up answering this, in that they reform over time with a little less of their memories and personality intact - "kill" them enough times and they're nothing more than rabid spectral animals.

But Shiro's location is very much known: the Realm of Torment.

That said, while Shiro was my favorite GW1 villain, they should not bring him back. Why would they? His story is told and complete, any reference to him is nothing more than nostalgia bait. Unlike Joko and Lazarus, who were intentionally left open-ended in GW1, Shiro has no further story to tell and no place in the story.

If Shiro is brought back, it should just be his jade-solidified corpse from the end of Factions.

Or alternatively a fractal of his first-life exploits. Could even be a fractal where players take on being various random Kurzicks and Luxons, and join Viktor, Nika, and Archemorous in avenging the dead emperor moments before the Jade Wind.

Otherwise, the only "appearance" should be mentions of him, not him actually showing up.

On 9/13/2021 at 11:10 AM, voltaicbore.8012 said:

No, for me.

Shiro is currently a spirit that revenants can call on, and even talk to from time to time. Not sure I'd want to see another weird lore complication introduced by having a spirit version of Shiro with revenants, then have a returning version of Shiro walking around doing other things.

And @codedbykush.2019 and many others:

Revenants do not call on spirits, but echoes - disembodied copies of other beings at a specific spacetime. This is why multiple revenants can channel Shiro, Jalis, etc. The Shiro we channel seem to be a copy of Shiro from before turning to Abaddon fully - post-first death, but pre-second death, based on his skills and dialogue.

There would be zero lore issue with Shiro's spirit popping up, just as there was zero lore issue when revenants channeled Joko aka Legendary Prisoner Stance to break out of jail in Season 4 Episode 1, well before Joko was dead. Or how Glint's soul is involved with the battle against Kralkatorrik, despite Rytlock and possibly the PC being a Herald.

On 9/13/2021 at 9:13 PM, draxynnic.3719 said:

It's curious that the wiki said his current location is unknown. His spirit was sent to the Realm of Torment, where we proceeded to destroy him again. This is where the phrase 'deader than dead' is probably accurate - we didn't just kill him, we followed him to the hell-plane his soul was sent to and destroyed that too. 

Well, we don't really know what happens to souls when "killed", is probably what that line said. Unlike what @Shael.4703 said, the wiki doesn't say Shiro's current location is unknown. It says "the fate of his soul is unknown". Which is just saying, as said, that we don't know - or rather, didn't - what happened to souls when "killed".

But GW2 answers this, at least in context of souls "killed" in Thyria - they simply reform after a time, much like Foefire ghosts, but they lose a piece of themselves (see: Lair of the Forgotten). Apparently the only way to destroy a soul is to consume it.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

20 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

I'm voting yes.

BUT!! not as a revived big bad who we'll fight in the story or something.

When I say "Yes" to bringing back Shiro I mean specifically doing it in the format of a Fractal or Strike Mission.
Time is something we can play around with in the mists, allowing us to re-live certain events from the past such as the Charr invading Ascalon or discovering what happened at the Thermanova reactor etc.

There are many events in the history of Tyria that can be made into Fractals or Mists based Strike missions, Remaking Shiro's fall at the end of Gw1 Fractals would be a fun one to see in Gw2, or they could go back further to his original death and we could get to see the events that lead to the unleashing of the Jade Wind.

I hope that by "remaking Shiro's fall at the end of GW1 Factions", you're referring to his first death that happens 200 years before GW1, and not the actual final battle of Factions because, let's be honest, there is zero reason to remake GW1 events in GW2. Hall of Chains was enough of that, and how they threw aside a potentially interesting Dhuum plot for a one-wing raid that repeats GW1 battle design is very much meh.