Now that Joko is finally dead for everyone, Long live the lich, it's time for Shiro Tagachi

[Teratus.2859]

35 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I hope that by "remaking Shiro's fall at the end of GW1 Factions", you're referring to his first death that happens 200 years before GW1, and not the actual final battle of Factions because, let's be honest, there is zero reason to remake GW1 events in GW2. Hall of Chains was enough of that, and how they threw aside a potentially interesting Dhuum plot for a one-wing raid that repeats GW1 battle design is very much meh.

Both deaths were mentioned as candidates🙂

Part of the reason for remaking Gw1 battles would be to give them a little re-imagining.
Gw1 and Gw2 being very different games and all that, they could make those kinds of fights way more interesting in Gw2 even if they stick closely to aspects of the original fight.

Though personally if I had the choice I would also prefer to have the first death and the unleashing of the Jade Wind shown in a fractal instead since that would be a more interesting fractal.

But there are plenty of things in Gw1 that would make good fractals in Gw2, and we also have to remember that most people who play Gw2 did not play Gw1 so for them this would be entirely new content they've never seen before.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

6 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

we also have to remember that most people who play Gw2 did not play Gw1 so for them this would be entirely new content they've never seen before.

No reason why they can't go play GW1 though. It's still active and you can even solo gameplay pretty much the entire game with the right hero setup.

And it's pretty clear that other than perpetual nostalgia, ArenaNet's new writers have zero-to-minimal interest in continuity with lore that came before them (which for the most part, means pre-S4 at this point). So just let them delve into new stories and topics instead.

Less lore headaches that way.

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

51 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

No reason why they can't go play GW1 though. It's still active and you can even solo gameplay pretty much the entire game with the right hero setup.

Lots of people choose not to play GW1 since they either feel it's outdated or the fact that it's vastly different to GW2. When I got asked about how I knew the Archemorus and Viktor legends on the Vindicator trailer, I told them they're from GW1 and more than half the people didn't actually play that game at all for the aforementioned reasons so they didn't know those two characters. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by ChronoPinoyX.7923

[Teratus.2859]

10 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

And it's pretty clear that other than perpetual nostalgia, ArenaNet's new writers have zero-to-minimal interest in continuity with lore that came before them (which for the most part, means pre-S4 at this point). So just let them delve into new stories and topics instead.

Less lore headaches that way.

Haha true enough that XD

Though they have brought back a few of the older Gw2 developers so hopefully lore headaches will be minimal in future content 🙂

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

16 hours ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

Lots of people choose not to play GW1 since they either feel it's outdated or the fact that it's vastly different to GW2. When I got asked about how I knew the Archemorus and Viktor legends on the Vindicator trailer, I told them they're from GW1 and more than half the people didn't actually play that game at all for the aforementioned reasons so they didn't know those two characters. 

The notion of it being outdated is really silly and false. Though it doesn't play like GW2 so I can understand that but that really shouldn't be preventing people from playing the game either.

That's like refusing to play Doom Eternal because it doesn't play the same as Team Fortress 2.

[Faridah.8431]

16 hours ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

Lots of people choose not to play GW1 since they either feel it's outdated or the fact that it's vastly different to GW2. 

That's a shame. It is a unique gameplay experience that GW2 failed to recapture (though seems to be on purpose), and that's not because it was bad, it was rather good, but devs felt hard to manage/balance. Also, excellent world building, atmosphere, soundtracks, narrative, etc. Yes it's a different game, but it is worth picking up. So there's no z-axis or mounts? Big deal. World felt large. And I've yet to really see any other games really capture the gameplay style of GW.

I enjoy both games, but for me I don't really see them as being in the same universe, and gameplay wise they are two different things. Saying it's just outdated is kinda dumb. It got some QOL updates over the past few years and it still has a decent population of players.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Faridah.8431

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

22 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

The notion of it being outdated is really silly and false. Though it doesn't play like GW2 so I can understand that but that really shouldn't be preventing people from playing the game either.

That's like refusing to play Doom Eternal because it doesn't play the same as Team Fortress 2.

It's not preventing them from playing the game but the notion of it being outdated is literally their reason for not wanting to play it. Whether you see that notion as silly and false is subjective because others felt those exact notions hence why they don't touch GW1,

I'm just stating what others have said, whether people change their minds on playing GW1 is up to them, I've no intention of trying to convince them to change their stance on it. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by ChronoPinoyX.7923

[Faridah.8431]

2 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

It's not preventing them from playing the game but the notion of it being outdated is literally their reason for not wanting to play it. Whether you see that notion as silly and false is subjective because others felt those exact notions hence why they don't touch GW1,

I'm just stating what others have said, whether people change their minds on playing GW1 is up to them, I've no intention of trying to convince them to change their stance on it. 

Sure, people will do whatever they want. They're just denying themselves a great game experience with that notion. 

But yeah, they'll do what they want.

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 9/16/2021 at 2:15 PM, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

It's not preventing them from playing the game but the notion of it being outdated is literally their reason for not wanting to play it. Whether you see that notion as silly and false is subjective because others felt those exact notions hence why they don't touch GW1,

I'm just stating what others have said, whether people change their minds on playing GW1 is up to them, I've no intention of trying to convince them to change their stance on it. 

Well, if we go to dictionary terminology, it'd effectively come down to "is it still being sold/produced" and "can it run on current systems".

For GW1, both answers are yes. So I'd say that's an objective view that GW1 isn't outdated.

But if people want to deprive themselves of a good time, they can do that.

But they shouldn't be demanding the devs remake a perfectly functional and available game just because it's not using the latest levels of technology.

[YourOnlyOne.4937]

I love the discussion. Those are all great replies and also informative.

Thank you everyone. ^_^

[Teratus.2859]

On 9/18/2021 at 2:41 AM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Well, if we go to dictionary terminology, it'd effectively come down to "is it still being sold/produced" and "can it run on current systems".

For GW1, both answers are yes. So I'd say that's an objective view that GW1 isn't outdated.

But if people want to deprive themselves of a good time, they can do that.

But they shouldn't be demanding the devs remake a perfectly functional and available game just because it's not using the latest levels of technology.

To be fair a large portion of remakes are remade for that exact reason..
FF7 is still a perfectly functional and enjoyable game and yet that got.. partly remade (as of now) and is almost unrecognisable from the original.. much to the cheers of some fans and utter contempt of others lol

Pretty much agree with everything else you said though, specially about depriving themselves of a good time.
I do generally like the idea of remastering and remaking stuff.. within reason (Baldurs Gate Enhanced Editions, the Turok remakes and Resident Evil 1 for example are superb examples of remasters/remakes done right)

But I also believe that just because something is old and "outdated" by modern technology standards doesn't mean it should be disregarded.
There are tons and tons of great old games out there that are worth playing and are arguably even more fun than many modern games are, in my opinion anyway lol.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Teratus.2859

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

10 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

To be fair a large portion of remakes are remade for that exact reason..
FF7 is still a perfectly functional and enjoyable game and yet that got.. partly remade (as of now) and is almost unrecognisable from the original.. much to the cheers of some fans and utter contempt of others lol

Remakes are typically done because a) the companies can make money without needing extensive pre-production (e.g., new plots, characters, lore) and b) some devs just want to see their old favorites remade in newer graphics.

Yes, remakes gets new players to play those old games, but I wouldn't say it's "for that exact reason". It's almost always going to be about making money. Same thing with movie reboots.

If remakes are done for getting new players into the franchise, it's because they have a new sequel in (pre-)production that they want to expand the fanbase for. Though those will more often be remasters (same game, but improved textures, added graphical effects, rebalancing, etc) than remakes.

But I digress.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Teratus.2859]

16 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Remakes are typically done because a) the companies can make money without needing extensive pre-production (e.g., new plots, characters, lore) and b) some devs just want to see their old favorites remade in newer graphics.

Yes, remakes gets new players to play those old games, but I wouldn't say it's "for that exact reason". It's almost always going to be about making money. Same thing with movie reboots.

If remakes are done for getting new players into the franchise, it's because they have a new sequel in (pre-)production that they want to expand the fanbase for. Though those will more often be remasters (same game, but improved textures, added graphical effects, rebalancing, etc) than remakes.

But I digress.

Oh there is certainly a financial element for sure, as well as developer passion projects.
But there's also fan demand as well which more often than not likely influences that financial incentive.

Sometimes fans are willing to take matters into their own hands too and start massive fan projects to remake certain games.
Sometimes companies even allow this to happen such as Skyblivion, and other times they go out of their way to shut the projects down entirely no matter how promising.. which is what sadly happened to Goldeneye 25.

All that really says is that if companies ignore the demand of fans and the fans want it bad enough they'll do it themselves lol

[DaZeeHero.5210]

Joko is not dead for everyone! he may have been devoured but he lives on in our hearts, in every really awful dad joke and zombie pun we make!

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

21 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Oh there is certainly a financial element for sure, as well as developer passion projects.
But there's also fan demand as well which more often than not likely influences that financial incentive.

Sometimes fans are willing to take matters into their own hands too and start massive fan projects to remake certain games.
Sometimes companies even allow this to happen such as Skyblivion, and other times they go out of their way to shut the projects down entirely no matter how promising.. which is what sadly happened to Goldeneye 25.

All that really says is that if companies ignore the demand of fans and the fans want it bad enough they'll do it themselves lol

Point being...

Repeating GW1 content, like the final Factions boss fight, as free releases for GW2 ain't gonna happen and there's no legitimate reason for people to not buy and play GW1 unless ArenaNet do a legit remaster of GW1.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Teratus.2859]

3 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Point being...

Repeating GW1 content, like the final Factions boss fight, as free releases for GW2 ain't gonna happen and there's no legitimate reason for people to not buy and play GW1 unless ArenaNet do a legit remaster of GW1.

Just that it's worth doing if there is enough fan demand for it.
Plus there is already an existing Gw1 fight to build on.

Almost all of the new content in Gw2 has been reusing Gw1 locations and lore etc.
It's just easier and quicker to build on something, to expand on something than it is to just create something entirely from scratch.

I agree there is no good reason for people not to buy and play Gw1.. but the sad reality is the vast majority of people still won't do it and nothing you can say to them will convince most of them to do so.. that's just how people are.
And I don't believe Gw1 needs a legit remaster either, in fact I think Gw1 would likely loose something special if they did remaster the whole game.. not to mention the likelihood that the remaster would probably kill the original game as well which would be a terrible thing to happen.

Reusing some of the big events of Gw1 as a way to bring some new and fun content into Gw2.. that's something I think is worth doing.
I'd much prefer to fight Shiro or Abaddon or Glint again in a Gw2 fractal than fight the Bloomhunger or the Imbued Shaman.. those bosses just feel irrelevant and unimportant.
Lets go kill this Grawl cult.. or this magic tree.. Why?.. umm, cause reasons. lol

Take Deepstone as an example.. would you rather have that fractal or would you have preferred a fractal that showed the rite of the Great Dwarf and the death of the Great Destroyer?
That's a no contest for me, I'd take the latter any day, it would have been a far more interesting and epic fractal.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Teratus.2859

[morsdood.1987]

No, the only thing they should do is some new dialogue for Legend Shiro and have his jade corpsestatue able to be visited as a PoI/Mastery/Hero point

[The Greyhawk.9107]

1 hour ago, morsdood.1987 said:

No, the only thing they should do is some new dialogue for Legend Shiro and have his jade corpsestatue able to be visited as a PoI/Mastery/Hero point

I can get behind this.

[Sirius.4510]

I honestly thought Shiro was one of GW1's weakest moments anyway... some things are better left alone.

Maybe the wooden dialogue and acting performances biased me, I don't know. There was room for some real depth in the character, they just didn't give him any.