GW2: Highs, lows and comparisons

[Fenris Silverfang.7906]

Heyo everyone,

I wanted to write my honest thoughts down somewhere, give some feedback, start a discussion and hopefully get some of your opinions and input on this.

After a good many years I have come back to gw2 so I missed a fair bit I was eager to catch up on.

I had completed all maps back then and tried every bit of content it had to offer at the time and was pleasantly surprised by all the new things, even if it took me a little to get used to.

Nabbed both expansions, checked my old chars, made some new ones, and ventured forth into the unknown.

 

So lets start with the good:

-Masteries seemed like a cool addition considering it is a accountwide mechanic but doesn't just give you more strength to catapult you ahead of everyone joining in later or not playing as much.

-The trait system is different from how I recalled it but it does allow for a lot of build flexibility and experimenting and swapping things around is extremely easy and fun.

-Leveling is still fairly quick and fun, and goes at a pace where youre encouraged to try different zones with your alts or different story paths so it feels refreshing all over again.

-New story bits are exciting and im glad to see living world that i only experienced in its infancy having shaped the world in such a cool way. Looking forward to replay it all in my own time.

-Combat when it flows, it flows... when its at its best and your build and everything else comes together its snappy and just feels great.

-There is a TON of content adding everything up now and you can work on what you like in terms of achievements and skins quite selectively as most as based on participation in a certain map or activity and you get to choose where to go and when.

-Newer maps may be a pain to traverse initially but I actually like how hostile they are because they are meant to make you feel unwelcome till you obtain ways to traverse them much easier via mastery and get used to the layout

-The story is still great and makes you feel involved. It gives you choices and you often feel like you are a part of something bigger but also that your actions matter in the grand sheme of things without making you the 'chosen' one that towers above all other characters, thus giving them time to shine as well.

 

The bad:

-I appreciate the amount of loot you get but it does seem extremely random at times. I ran several dungeons with a friend who I've brought into the game not to long ago, yet everything he got several runs a row were armor and weapons not even usable by the class he played which while I know you can reroll using the forge doesn't feel that great.

-Abundance of materials you don't even know what they're used for. This was a bit of a sensory overload as you get tons of mats that you'd think would be rare but don't have any real value selling them on the market(a few copper), nor to you unless you've gone into crafting. The base materials are worth more whilst some 'rare' components dont event fit into my storage anymore cause there isn't a way to sell them.

-Performance... now its been said the engine is going to get some love soon, so looking forward to that when the newer version of dx causes your cpu to scream a little less. It's not terrible but its noticable for sure. Lag can also be a huge issue but seems very hit and miss. I had a dragons stand where everyone was running into walls for 2 minutes at a time and the airdrafts were so delayed they never worked in the last fight. Other times I had stand maps that were fine and there may have been minor delay but everything ran fairly smooth.

-For as fun as experimenting with skills and traits is, elite specializations while adding interesting mechanics take quite a while to get because some of their skills are unlocked very late on the wheel. This has the effect that most people will probably pick one and not bother with the other and/or refrain from using them unless all points have been invested as they'd otherwise be missing core skills and have holes in their build.

-Living story offers you a way to feel more involved with the world and the events that shaped it and I would gladly play them even if they offered me no reward at all, the added cost can be offputting as its quite high (higher than the expansions even) for people that join in late or took a break, especially if they would like to play things in order.

 

My conclusion and my biggest point to make here though, is the delivery.

Now Guild Wars 2 has some real great moments and shouldnt have to hide from wow or ff14 or any other mmos in competition to retain a large amount of players.

It ticks all the checkmarks for what you expect and sometimes don't expect from a mmorpg and if anything, gw2 is extremely ambitious in the way it does things.

I feel that is both a great strength but also weakness... you don't expect those huge map meta events, the scale of which can be enormous when it finally all comes together and it is dreaming bigger than the competition in many cases. I do feel however that by wanting to have those 'huge' moments, the expectations are also being raised to a point where if it doesn't deliver perfectly, it can fall flat.

An example is both the orr story and heart of thorns. The original story is still great for the most of it, but replaying it you notice that if certain things would be arranged differently, the moments would just pop so much more. Take the fight with the eye for example, the boss is alright, it falls, suddenly you're overrun and it all hope seems lost when the sound effects drop and only music plays... its supposed to be tragic and heroic... yet you can still hear random voicelines that break the silence among other small issues that can get in the way of what would otherwise be a pretty great moment. And that is just one of several moments where small issues get in the way of what feelings a scene is supposed to invoke.

Dragons Stand is another one that is insanely ambitous...and it works for the most part... issues aside that if you lack mastery you're not able to navigate fast enough to get hits in on the boss but it still feels epic except then the cutscene plays and... oh its still going up the tree!? Surely you go up there to fini- oh... That's it?...

Suddenly what had so much build up and scale comes to a very sudden, almost comical halt.

 

Again let me make clear that I love gw2 and it does many things right and several things (personal opinion) better than other games of the same genre.

I feel it's most of the way there and sometimes overshoots and stumbles over itself a little, and that's okay... it can be quite charming even... but I am curious if there isn't something that can be done to improve the 'feel' of it a little in certain situations , to allow it to really shine and pop and have those 'oh wow' moments that people are often looking for and it can certainly deliver those cause it has them, just doesn't always nail it.

 

So what are your thoughts on it?

Would love to hear from you.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Fenris Silverfang.7906
typo

[Gibson.4036]

Regarding your mats point: it’s easy to sell off all these random mats as they overflow your inventory, only to discover much later that endgame goals sometimes require hundreds or even thousands of them.

I often feel stymied by inventory management because something that seems worthless might actually be quite useful once I come across a collection or crafting recipe I didn’t know existed.

[Dante.1763]

1 minute ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Regarding your mats point: it’s easy to sell off all these random mats as they overflow your inventory, only to discover much later that endgame goals sometimes require hundreds or even thousands of them.

I often feel stymied by inventory management because something that seems worthless might actually be quite useful once I come across a collection or crafting recipe I didn’t know existed.

Bloody Mithril and Thicc leather and Elder Wood...

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You might want to take advantage of the Wiki (link above) to discern the true value of any items in-game.

 

Hope you didn't purchase Living World Season 4 and The Icebrood Saga, as they are being offered at no cost presently.

 

Welcome return, and good luck!

[Rogue.8235]

I view the abundance of loot as raw materials.  View it in that light and it makes sense that you get them in bulk.  Gear drops are just crafting materials that get you some magic find when converted to materials.  The materials market is a huge portion of the breadbasket of goods that the GW2 economy lives and dies with.

 

You made a huge point with the sensory overload.  Having been at this game pretty consistently over the years, it's hard for me to forget the sheer diversity of stuff you get in the game.  

A way to alleviate this is to type the following in the chatbox:

/wiki

Then shift + click an item.  This opens up the GW2 Wiki to the page of that item in your default browser.  I still do this a lot just because I tend to forget lots of things.  

This will alleviate the sensory overload a bit, but I still think it's a major point of concern.  The knowledge base's learning curve is ssteep if you get into the game right now, due to all of the stuff that slowly built up over the years.

 

I'm not sure how to solve this problem without creating a system that would annoy other people.  For now, lots of checking on the wiki will help (and quickly with the /wiki shift+click).

 

I guess another point to consider is that the game is expecting you to pace yourself through the story and content in order.  You'll be familiar with the systems, items, and currencies until you hit the next block of new stuff.  Taking your time may reduce that sensory overload.

 

Side note: be careful of exploding chickens in Bitterfrost Frontier.  

 

 

[Cyndercat.7615]

Masteries I feel were a great idea with not great execution. Some are really fun and impactful like gliding offensive skills and wall climbing with vines but they are only usable in their respective maps which really limits them. 

 

I disagree with story, but ive always felt it went downhill after Zhaitan's death and just got worse over time. The most recent story release really took the cake on that. I do think the big impactful moments are the one thing that does improve in later episodes due to better cutscenes though. As far as removing small distractions, I am still annoyed over the removal of human female idle animations which they promised they would reenable and then never did, so I don't trust them to sort that issue without ruining other aspects of the game. 

 

Agree with you on combat still feeling great and performance needing an upgrade. Trait system is great in that its flexible and problematic in that the flexibility can create huge performance differences between players, more than any other non p2w game and it shows which isn't ideal for the cooperative nature of the game. 

 

 

 

[Pheex.8932]

My biggest problem is how unfriendly the game is to alts. It would cost me over 400 USD to buy endless gathering tools for all my characters, and it costs like 5 USD to unlock ONE equipment slot PER CHARACTER. Then 5 USD for ONE build template PER CHARACTER. 5 USD for ONE bag slot for ONE CHARACTER. And ofcourse you pay 10 USD to even unlock ONE character slot to start leveling it.

 

This game has been far more expensive to me than WoW ever was and on all my alts I'm still annoyed with bag slot limitations or equipment slot limitations unless I keep forking over.

[Linken.6345]

23 minutes ago, Pheex.8932 said:

My biggest problem is how unfriendly the game is to alts. It would cost me over 400 USD to buy endless gathering tools for all my characters, and it costs like 5 USD to unlock ONE equipment slot PER CHARACTER. Then 5 USD for ONE build template PER CHARACTER. 5 USD for ONE bag slot for ONE CHARACTER. And ofcourse you pay 10 USD to even unlock ONE character slot to start leveling it.

 

This game has been far more expensive to me than WoW ever was and on all my alts I'm still annoyed with bag slot limitations or equipment slot limitations unless I keep forking over.

Well with 3 account wide slots copper gathering tools on all your characters.

3 infinite gathering tools in said account wide slots and you dubble click tools when you login and logout and you got infinite tools on all your characters.

[Naneel.2348]

3 hours ago, Pheex.8932 said:

My biggest problem is how unfriendly the game is to alts. It would cost me over 400 USD to buy endless gathering tools for all my characters, and it costs like 5 USD to unlock ONE equipment slot PER CHARACTER. Then 5 USD for ONE build template PER CHARACTER. 5 USD for ONE bag slot for ONE CHARACTER. And ofcourse you pay 10 USD to even unlock ONE character slot to start leveling it.

 

This game has been far more expensive to me than WoW ever was and on all my alts I'm still annoyed with bag slot limitations or equipment slot limitations unless I keep forking over.

I think you made something wrong. 🤔 I have 10 Charachter slots, all equiped with exotic gear (some also have ascended) and I only bought Gw2, Hot and PoF.

And you can use your shared slots for infinite gathering tools, which is definitely cheaper then buying more tools.

More bags slots and build slots are defenitly not a must have and you probably won't need more on all charachters.

[Fuchslein.8639]

I don't play GW2 for the story. I read a lot and love story driven games, but gw2's story is ... just MMO-like. It's enough to entertain you and that's all it needs in the end. At least for me. I've never played an MMO because of an outstanding story, because the story can be as good as it is, if the gameplay itself lacks, it's of no use to me personally. And the gameplay in GW2 is great.

Over the years, things have been added that make you feel like you're lagging behind when you miss events that are somewhere high up and everyone is flying up with their skyscales and power-creeping through without thinking about anyone else. But for the most part, you can always play GW2, whether you're new or veteran, or both.

Enough has already been said about the dropping thing. At the moment, it still seems too much for you. But when you want to build your first ascended set, your first Legy or just expensive Achievment-skins, you will be happy about it. Because you can just recycle all the stuff and hoard it, or like most people do, just sell the stuff you don't need and get what you need from the gold (never sell mystic coins and fused gems).

[Fenris Silverfang.7906]

Happy to see so many replies so quickly after posting.

Been looking into the mats and drops a bit more and thanks to the wiki and its made things a little more digestable.

 

Fair points as well that it's possible to feel a little left out when people zoom around and you don't make it anywhere in time on some maps especially.

I don't particularly mind working towards masteries as kind of longer term endgame goal though, so far its still fairly rewarding cause it tied into my shiny revenant armor set achievement for example.

 

What does get me a little though is that I've gotten to a point where i'd like to experiment more with the elite specs on a few charcters, yet while some +10's are alright to get to, either needing some exploration via gliding or waiting for help to tackle some particularly beefy bosses... others a bit more of a pain.

Now, do the living world season areas 3-4-5 (cause 2 doesnt add zones) also have +10 nodes on them?

Cause if so I feel they'd make it vastly easier to obtain both considering just how many points you need overall.

Also read that in order to get to them you play the first bit of every chapter and then purchase teleportation scrolls in order to let alts tp there too.

It's an odd choice to me and I wonder why things like that aren't simply accountwide unlocks for the first waypoint for example.

 

Overall while im very much enjoying my time and are invested enough to want to want to engage more with other aspects of the game, there are quite a ton of things you pick up through trial and error and by a fair amount of help from forums or the wiki.

Do enjoy finding out stuff myself partially cause you get a few 'oh thats how it works' moments where you feel like you have a little breakthrough, but I can also see how that might put a good few people off.

[costepj.5120]

13 minutes ago, Fenris Silverfang.7906 said:

Now, do the living world season areas 3-4-5 (cause 2 doesnt add zones) also have +10 nodes on them?

LS2 did add 2 new maps - Silverwastes and Dry Top, but you don't need the story to visit them.

The later LS maps have no hero challenges.

[Fenris Silverfang.7906]

Thanks for the clarification. Was wondering if that was something that would help people speed up the process for those who owned it.

 

[Fuchslein.8639]

1 hour ago, Fenris Silverfang.7906 said:

Happy to see so many replies so quickly after posting.

Been looking into the mats and drops a bit more and thanks to the wiki and its made things a little more digestable.

 

Fair points as well that it's possible to feel a little left out when people zoom around and you don't make it anywhere in time on some maps especially.

I don't particularly mind working towards masteries as kind of longer term endgame goal though, so far its still fairly rewarding cause it tied into my shiny revenant armor set achievement for example.

 

What does get me a little though is that I've gotten to a point where i'd like to experiment more with the elite specs on a few charcters, yet while some +10's are alright to get to, either needing some exploration via gliding or waiting for help to tackle some particularly beefy bosses... others a bit more of a pain.

Now, do the living world season areas 3-4-5 (cause 2 doesnt add zones) also have +10 nodes on them?

Cause if so I feel they'd make it vastly easier to obtain both considering just how many points you need overall.

Also read that in order to get to them you play the first bit of every chapter and then purchase teleportation scrolls in order to let alts tp there too.

It's an odd choice to me and I wonder why things like that aren't simply accountwide unlocks for the first waypoint for example.

 

Overall while im very much enjoying my time and are invested enough to want to want to engage more with other aspects of the game, there are quite a ton of things you pick up through trial and error and by a fair amount of help from forums or the wiki.

Do enjoy finding out stuff myself partially cause you get a few 'oh thats how it works' moments where you feel like you have a little breakthrough, but I can also see how that might put a good few people off.

 

My tipp, look for a guild or People you can play with. This is an MMO. You don't have to play it alone ^^.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

15 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

Bloody Mithril and Thicc leather and Elder Wood...

Yeah if you're not sharting out ascended equipment the material slots fill up more or less after the first tap of your mining tool. I've basically given up and permanently allocated inventory space for those particular materials just so I know where they are. Doesn't help that mithrilililium is on a timer.

Edited September 14, 2021 by nosleepdemon.1368

[costepj.5120]

2 hours ago, Fenris Silverfang.7906 said:

Thanks for the clarification. Was wondering if that was something that would help people speed up the process for those who owned it.

 

Two rapid ways to accrue hero points:

1) Join a HP train. I see them frequently on the HoT maps. I assume they also run on PoF, but I rarely have any reason to return to those maps.

2) Play WvW and spend Proofs/Testimonies of Heroics on notarized scrolls, which can then be used to complete hero challenges in HoT/PoF.

[Fenris Silverfang.7906]

5 hours ago, costepj.5120 said:

2) Play WvW and spend Proofs/Testimonies of Heroics on notarized scrolls, which can then be used to complete hero challenges in HoT/PoF.

Oh I wasn't even aware that was a thing. Thanks for letting me know.

Kinda brings me back to my previous point of there being a lot of 'where to get this or that' or 'how does this work' but the vast majority is never explained to you.

Wiki and people being helpful really go a long way and I'm extremely thankful and glad to see that people reach out to lend a hand or give tips.

 

Managed to get my hands on my revenant specialization set now and figured out how the HoT maps work properly.

Also thanks to the info posted here, figured out that breaking down and selling mats pays better than traders do in almost all cases making each load of blues and greens more satisfying to unpack.

[Pheex.8932]

On 9/14/2021 at 9:16 AM, Naneel.2348 said:

I think you made something wrong. 🤔 I have 10 Charachter slots, all equiped with exotic gear (some also have ascended) and I only bought Gw2, Hot and PoF.

And you can use your shared slots for infinite gathering tools, which is definitely cheaper then buying more tools.

More bags slots and build slots are defenitly not a must have and you probably won't need more on all charachters.

I'd like to use different builds but not lose the builds I puzzled together. So instead of conveniently saving a template I have to screenshot or write down what build / skills I have to even mess around with new templates. It's a bit ridiculous.

 

And you shouldn't have to buy equipment slots for completely annoying tool swapping on every relog imho. Actually converting currency it's more like 10 USD per bag slot / equipment template. Even for F2P standards it's insane.

 

  

On 9/14/2021 at 6:27 AM, Linken.6345 said:

Well with 3 account wide slots copper gathering tools on all your characters.

3 infinite gathering tools in said account wide slots and you dubble click tools when you login and logout and you got infinite tools on all your characters.

I HAVE bought shared slots and infinite tools. And it's still an inconvenient workaround to unequip reequip on every relog. The most basic convenience is paywalled and it's just not ok.

 

 

Hell give me a $15 a month GW2 premium that grants access to max bag slots and infinite gathering tools, equipment templates and builds and I'd 1000 times rather have that and just be done with all the gated annoyances and limitations.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Pheex.8932

[Linken.6345]

21 minutes ago, Pheex.8932 said:

I'd like to use different builds but not lose the builds I puzzled together. So instead of conveniently saving a template I have to ******** screenshot or write down what build / skills I have to even mess around with new templates. It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

And you shouldn't have to buy equipment slots for completely annoying tool swapping on every relog, how are you OK with that? Actually converting currency it's more like 10 USD per bag slot / equipment template. Even for F2P standards it's insane.

 

  

I HAVE bought shared slots and infinite tools. And it's still an inconvenient workaround to unequip reequip on every relog. The most basic convenience is paywalled and it's just not ok.

 

 

Hell give me a $15 a month GW2 premium that grants access to max bag slots and infinite gathering tools, equipment templates and builds and I'd 1000 times rather have that and just be DONE with all the gated annoyances and limitations.

Then put in 15 bucks a month untill you unlocked all the infinite tools, bag slots, equipment templates and builds.

That you want to have and stop paying after that instead mate.

[Pheex.8932]

7 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Then put in 15 bucks a month untill you unlocked all the infinite tools, bag slots, equipment templates and builds.

That you want to have and stop paying after that instead mate.

 

Gathering tools for all 13 chars

3 bags slots per char

2 extra equipment templates and 2 extra build templates per char, I'm not even maxing all of those mind you

That's about 1250 USD for about 100 kb of data on their servers. What a steal!

Edited September 15, 2021 by Pheex.8932

[Linken.6345]

44 minutes ago, Pheex.8932 said:

 

Gathering tools for all 13 chars

3 bags slots per char

2 extra equipment templates and 2 extra build templates per char, I'm not even maxing all of those mind you

That's about 1250 USD for about 100 kb of data on their servers. What a steal!

Yes it is since its  one time fee, you dont have to pay to keep it after you bought it like in other games.

Oh Im sorry your time run out time to pay me again.

Then again I myself have bought 1 set of infinite tools 25 shared slots, 14 character slots, 3 bag slots for main, max bank tabs, 3 personal guilds with all bank tabs, 2000 material storage and probabely abit more.

And all of that for ingame gold/ 5k ap gems.

Edit

All I ever bought are the expansions for hard cash and 1 time 2k gems to put my money were my mouth was when Anet fired a developer that vent over the line

 

https://kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-writers-fired-for-calling-out-fan-on-twitt-1827401422

Edited September 15, 2021 by Linken.6345

[Pheex.8932]

6 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yes it is since its  one time fee, you dont have to pay to keep it after you bought it like in other games.

Oh Im sorry your time run out time to pay me again.

Then again I myself have bought 1 set of infinite tools 25 shared slots, 14 character slots, 3 bag slots for main, max bank tabs, 3 personal guilds with all bank tabs, 2000 material storage and probabely abit more.

And all of that for ingame gold/ 5k ap gems.

 

Other games have all that convenience built in. People always use this argument how it's yours forever. There are no games I know of where you have to buy bag slots that run out. And if you're talking about game time which is something completely different; then p2p games with a monthly sub are infinitely cheaper. In fact for all the gold making you've done in this game for basic convenience you could for arguments sake also grind gold in WoW to buy time tokens and play that game entirely 'free' according to your own argumentation. All it takes is time investment just like in GW2. except wow has all the bs basic convenience microtransactions of gw2 built in for free, 50 character slots and triple A polish and features compared to gw2's reskins called expansion content that you have to pay for

Edited September 15, 2021 by Pheex.8932

[Linken.6345]

7 minutes ago, Pheex.8932 said:

 

Other games have all that convenience built in. People always use this argument how it's yours forever. There are no games I know of where you have to buy bag slots that run out. And if you're talking about game time which is something completely different; then p2p games with a monthly sub are infinitely cheaper. In fact for all the gold making you've done in this game for basic convenience you could for arguments sake also grind gold in WoW to buy time tokens and play that game entirely 'free' according to your own argumentation. All it takes is time investment just like in GW2. except wow has all the bs basic convenience microtransactions of gw2 built in for free, 50 character slots and triple A polish and features compared to gw2's reskins called expansion content that you have to pay for

I tried doing that in wow and I could not keep up with the gold gain to get me wow tokens each month.

So no it is not the same, I really should have read the article in last post before linking it, since it was really twisted in the positive side towards the devs.

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Linken.6345

[Dawdler.8521]

6 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Then put in 15 bucks a month untill you unlocked all the infinite tools, bag slots, equipment templates and builds.

That you want to have and stop paying after that instead mate.

Theres no point in even trying anymore.

People constantly claim to farm 20-50g per hour in PvE but when one point out thats like a couple of casual days to get an account upgrade its always NoWaYTo0ExPeNSiVe!!!!! 

[Naneel.2348]

7 hours ago, Pheex.8932 said:

I'd like to use different builds but not lose the builds I puzzled together. So instead of conveniently saving a template I have to ******** screenshot or write down what build / skills I have to even mess around with new templates. It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

And you shouldn't have to buy equipment slots for completely annoying tool swapping on every relog, how are you OK with that? Actually converting currency it's more like 10 USD per bag slot / equipment template. Even for F2P standards it's insane.

 

  

I HAVE bought shared slots and infinite tools. And it's still an inconvenient workaround to unequip reequip on every relog. The most basic convenience is paywalled and it's just not ok.

 

 

Hell give me a $15 a month GW2 premium that grants access to max bag slots and infinite gathering tools, equipment templates and builds and I'd 1000 times rather have that and just be DONE with all the gated annoyances and limitations.

As you said it is just for convenience and that is how they make money.