Vindicator: Likes and Dislikes

[Eddy.7051]

Likes

- The name sounds good. Per definition of the name, I wonder if in-game lore will show how these two legends "cleared someone of blame or suspicion." Maybe it is simply referring to being "justified/vindicated" in killing Shiro, but nobody seemed to blame or criticize these legends for killing Shiro in the first place.

- Two legends in one legendary stance is interesting and unique. I hope this feels distinct enough from Kalla summoning her warband members.

- Greatsword is a solid choice for a Revenant weapon. Reused greatsword animations are resourceful and accessible for players who do not play every profession. For example, Revenant players who do not play Necromancer can now enjoy the Gravedigger animation.

- The Vindicator symbol shows duality which fits nicely for the dual legends.

- Modifying dodge feels appropriate for Revenant since they always had a visually different dodge involving phasing in and out of the mists.

 

Dislikes

- Archemorus and Viktor seem a little too on the nose for Canthan legends, and they seem too closely related to the existing Shiro legend. We will not get many more elite specs after EoD (we may get no more elite specs after EoD), and I wish we could have branched out a bit more with our legend diversity. We now not only have 3 human legends, but all 3 human legends are Canthan men. Asura and Norn are still missing a legend related to their people or culture. The most recent fractal has lore hinting at Canthan Norn. Norn's spirits of the wild can also tie in with Canthan lore, for example channeling the legend of the Spirit of the Kraken or another legendary aquatic beast in the Jade Sea.

- Once again, this elite spec legend has heroes rather than villains. Revenant was originally advertised as someone who would channel both heroes and villains. They had an edgy, jagged, dark knight aesthetic. After years of elite specs only gaining heroes for legends, Revenants are gradually losing their edge. I was hoping the ratio of heroes to villains would be about 50-50 but we're now at 75-25.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Eddy.7051
Bullets aren't working

[costepj.5120]

You already posted this in the official EOD elites thread, so expect it to be deleted (no point in merging).

 

ETA This was previously in the main discussion thread under the official one.

Edited September 14, 2021 by costepj.5120

[Telgum.6071]

I think it has exactly what Rev needed: a proper power based spec + big AoE. When Renegade gets its 45th nerf, we will thank for having Vindicator.

I kinda like the idea of a dual or double legend, I hope it works like an inner channelling inside the proper Revenant channellling mechanic, so you can have Viktor/Archemorus swapping utilities and also swap to Shiro or Jalis.

There are only two things I don't like:

1. The animations. I don't know wtf is wrong with this people to keep recycling animations over and over and over. It doesn't take that amount to work to make new animations, specially if you delayed the releasing for several months. Yeah, animation is not easy, but it is also not that hard to need to recycle 4 years old animations.

2. "...instead of DODGING." That part scares me.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Telgum.6071

[Knighthonor.4061]

I dont know where you get the idea that this will be the last elite spec. I feel like 2 years ago were right here and people saying the same thing about never having a third expansion.  How that turn out?      

 

Anyway. 

 

*Liked

 

-The Name-

Pretty cool name.

 

-Dodge mechanic change-

Cool concept, but need to see more on how this play out. Don't want to be too sluggish I guess.

 

-Dual Legend?- 

Still questionable but having a dual legend for an elite spec seem very cool, especially considering how limited customization is for us. So for another 2 to 3 years, more skills would help beat down the boredom burnout.      

 

 

*Dislike

 

-Animations-

Those recycled Reaper Animations as well as some of those other Animations could use work.    

 

-Cantha themed legends-

I would hope they didn't go this route since they didn't with PoF. But this not that big of a deal as long as the legend skills are good and cool.

 

-Sluggish Potential-

With the way Willbender went (for a mobility themed E spec, it sure felt sluggish to play. I hope that's not the case here.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Like : I like new stuffs

Dislikes : GS, pretty standard but I hope it'll be "magical" like hammer or mesmer's GS.

Mechanic on dodge or over dodge = troubles.

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

As many have mentioned, the animation recycling on this expansion is starting to become very apparent. I'm already pretty salty that Harbinger is 90% engie gameplay. My main class has been reaper since it came out, and having its iconinc gravedigger on another class just feels wrong. 

 

It's fine to reuse animations for common attacks, like auto attacks, which a bit of different VFX, but such a massive and telegraphed skill like Gravedigger should be unique. This is particularly strange on Revenant considering how out of the way they went to make sure they felt unique in the first place.

 

Sword auto attack chain starts with a thrust which feels very distinct. Hammer is ranged. Staff is melee and even the only other melee staff in the game has a completely different auto attack animation. Revs spin it overhead while Daredevils do a reflecting twirl around them.

 

I have a similar issue with Virtuoso's dagger auto attack. The animation is reused, slow, and the projectile doesn't even line up with any of the two motions (back and forth) in the animation, it just kinda appears in the middle of the move-back animation.

 

There needs to be way more work put into all of these elite specs to enhance game feel. 

[Knighthonor.4061]

Something about that Thrust attack animation just not appealing to me

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

My only dislike on this is the animation reuse, but I also understand why they do such things from a development standpoint, especially if they're developing the game on a more limited resource. 

That said, being able to see Archemorus throw that spear onto the enemy is the closest thing we'll get to Land Spear, and you know what, I'm all in for it. We still haven't seen what Viktor's special effects are yet so I'm actually stoked to see how his animation would play out

[Jijimuge.4675]

9 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Something about that Thrust attack animation just not appealing to me

FWIW, the thrust is pretty similar to a move one could pull in the real world in HEMA with a hand and a half sword.  By briefly switching to a one handed grip whilst doing a thrust (or even a lunge), one can get a bit of extra reach.

[Naneel.2348]

Vindicator sounds and looks real interesting.

Dislike : The German Name "Rechtssuchender"(someone who seeks law). I don't know if this fits lorewise, but it sounds aweful in German and again is a word nobody would use (same as Willbender/Willensverdreher).

[Za Shaloc.3908]

24 minutes ago, Naneel.2348 said:

Vindicator sounds and looks real interesting.

Dislike : The German Name "Rechtssuchender"(someone who seeks law). I don't know if this fits lorewise, but it sounds aweful in German and again is a word nobody would use (same as Willbender/Willensverdreher).

 

To be fair, Willbender sounds dumb in English too. 😄

[Klowdy.3126]

5 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Like : I like new stuffs

Dislikes : GS, pretty standard but I hope it'll be "magical" like hammer or mesmer's GS.

Mechanic on dodge or over dodge = troubles.

I mean, you can see they are attacking in melee range, and there were a few leaps toward your target. This is a melee weapon for sure.

[Ultramex.1506]

I do hope the animation are just placeholder same for Harbinger's Elixir that will get improvement on the final product

[Asum.4960]

7 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

I dont know where you get the idea that this will be the last elite spec. I feel like 2 years ago were right here and people saying the same thing about never having a third expansion.  How that turn out?      

 

We barely scraped into another expansion after a massive company "restructuring" (see laying off half the company, which was working on other game projects to move on to from GW2) when LW/casual story content only proved to be a massive financial liability not capable of funding those projects, rather than the golden goose Anet thought it was. 

 

Not to say we won't get more after this, if EoD does well at least, but I wouldn't exactly lean on the last 2-4 years as reassurance.

 

As for Vindicator, I really just need to see more. The air drop skill as well as the Archemorus enhanced strike seemed pretty cool, but aside from that, much like with the other EoD specs, it's a lot of animation reuse that's a bit too obvious for comfort, with Harbinger's Daredevil Vault and Vindicator's Reaper Grave Digger standing out the most. 

As for how the double legend will actually work mechanically, as well as the dodge comment, we'll have to see.

[DraconusShade.4590]

5 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

To be fair, Willbender sounds dumb in English too. 😄

It sounds kind of villainous. Like you would expect it to be some sort of person who tortures information out of people or something like that. 

You could have had a Mesmer E-spec around interrupting, dazing and all that and called it Willbender since mesmers actually do mess with people's minds.

 

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

 

We barely scraped into another expansion after a massive company "restructuring" (see laying off half the company, which was working on other game projects to move on to from GW2) when LW/casual story content only proved to be a massive financial liability not capable of funding those projects, rather than the golden goose Anet thought it was. 

 

Alternate hypothesis: They decided that the other projects weren't viable and doubled down on GW2, which they've been hiring for (including hiring back some of the people that were let go).

 

People predicting that GW2 being abandoned are, I think, forgetting about the DirectX upgrade. That's a pretty big undertaking to make if they're not planning to keep pushing GW2 for a bit longer than one more expansion and a bit of trail-off.

 

The point at which they were considering ending GW2 was when Season 4 was being made, and that's why there's a big gap between PoF and EoD. If they're recommitted to GW2, though - and that seems to be what the signs are pointing to - then we can probably expect more expansions to come unless EoD flops.

[Knuckle Joe.7408]

Recycle Wars 2. I saw Ranger's GS block, Reaper's Gravedigger and Death spiral. Who knows what else is recycled.

Jesus christo who do we have to succ to get new, unique animations? If it means bumping another $15 bucks on the expansion price by all means just kittening do it ANET.

[Asum.4960]

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Alternate hypothesis: They decided that the other projects weren't viable and doubled down on GW2, which they've been hiring for (including hiring back some of the people that were let go).

 

People predicting that GW2 being abandoned are, I think, forgetting about the DirectX upgrade. That's a pretty big undertaking to make if they're not planning to keep pushing GW2 for a bit longer than one more expansion and a bit of trail-off.

 

The point at which they were considering ending GW2 was when Season 4 was being made, and that's why there's a big gap between PoF and EoD. If they're recommitted to GW2, though - and that seems to be what the signs are pointing to - then we can probably expect more expansions to come unless EoD flops.

Agreed that it looks that way now. Although I'm staying cautiously optimistic until after the EoD media buzz. 

It's one thing to market commitment to a product just before wanting to sell an addition to it and another to then actually do it afterwards. 

 

Two hands aren't enough to count how many times Anet promised more communication, more frequent balancing, more frequent Endgame content, full commitment to the product as a whole etc., just to then cancel those teams again quietly after and moving them to other things. 

 

If they do it this time and actually properly support GW2 fully for once, then great. But I very much so understand why many still include the "If" in that. 

 

Non of that is an alternative hypothesis though, NCSoft releases quarterly financial data and we know from that that GW2's revenue was in freefall and reaching record low's during their LW focus without any "endgame" content (WvW, PvE group content etc.) - which is exactly why they are trying to shift to supporting those game avenues again, at least partially. 

GW2's revenue was simply dropping faster than those other projects were coming along, forcing them to recommit to their only revenue stream. 

 

All we can do is hope that EoD is successful and that leadership, finally, learned their lesson (and that it isn't to late for that).

Edited September 15, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Ulysses.2058]

42 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

Agreed that it looks that way now. Although I'm staying cautiously optimistic until after the EoD media buzz. 

It's one thing to market commitment to a product just before wanting to sell an addition to it and another to then actually do it afterwards. 

 

Two hands aren't enough to count how many times Anet promised more communication, more frequent balancing, more frequent Endgame content, full commitment to the product as a whole etc., just to then cancel those teams again quietly after and moving them to other things. 

 

If they do it this time and actually properly support GW2 fully for once, then great. But I very much so understand why many still include the "If" in that. 

 

Non of that is an alternative hypothesis though, NCSoft releases quarterly financial data and we know from that that GW2's revenue was in freefall and reaching record low's during their LW focus without any "endgame" content (WvW, PvE group content etc.) - which is exactly why they are trying to shift to supporting those game avenues again, at least partially. 

GW2's revenue was simply dropping faster than those other projects were coming along, forcing them to recommit to their only revenue stream. 

 

All we can do is hope that EoD is successful and that leadership, finally, learned their lesson

It's honestly amazing the game survived this long. Management and decision-making has been terrible from the start.

A shame really, the game has always had insane potential. And I fear the expansion might not be the success we need, the ideas behind it are OK but so far it feels rushed and in a noticeably low budget. Not precisely signs of long-term commitment. 

[anduriell.6280]

Um, i saw multiple animations wich bring evade frames with them like ranger's sword#2 

 

However i am not convinced another daredevil's Vault spec where the massive dps package comes while evading all damage will actually work or feel good when playing against it.