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Why pistol and not sword?


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  1. Why pistol and not sword? I do agree that yet another mid range weapon isn't especially appaeling on the necromancer. Thought, it could also have been mace.
  2. Why torment and not whatever other condition that's not already overused by 1 e-spec? I'm pretty sure that many players are starting to get sick of torment after scourge.
  3. Why boons? It's like ANet just gave up on the necromancer's thematic after close to 10 years.
  4. Why a monodimensional use of blight? Build it for bonus throught traits and nothing else. Couldn't we have true interaction with this mechanism? Send some stacks on foes (even transformed as a simple vitality debuff like lich form#5), consume stacks for effects, increased rate of building stacks... etc.
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5 hours ago, Lahmia.2193 said:

I find it odd that necro lacks a melee condi weapon, and is the only profession unable to wield a sword, yet anet decided to give us another condi ranged weapon.

Well, considering any ranged weapon CAN be used as a melee weapon, it's not that odd. Frankly, Scepter is actually an ideal melee condi weapon; keep in mind it isn't projectiles. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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Personally I like the Pistol for necromancer. Especs is supposed to be a different experience compared to the base proffession. So I find a pistol a breath of fresh air.  Just like elementalists getting Hammer.

 

I guess torment was chosen because its much stronger in pve now, though thematically poison would have been much better.

 

Ive really tried to like the Scourge, too much for me to keep track off. So Ive been quite enjoying Harbingers. More focused and only having minor dabbling in support. Scourge got repeatedly nerfbatted because of its too strong support in barriers. Which I know people is still QQing about.

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Poison would've felt better thematicall, but it's more of a utility condition for the -33% healing, while torment is more of a pure dps condition, especially now that deals more damage if the foe is stationary. 

A ranged weapon in general makes sense for harbinger, as it's designed to be the quintessential glass cannon. Tons and Tons of damage, at the cost of greatly reduced health. Max blight brings gives you 50% reduced health, turning you into an elementalist without sustain or mitigation.

It has a bit of mobility, but not enough to make it a melee oriented spec, and with that in mind I'd rather they give it a ranged weapon rather than using sword at range. This way sword can still be an option for a future 4th elite spec (if all goes well, EoD won't be the last GW2 expansion)

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14 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, considering any ranged weapon CAN be used as a melee weapon, it's not that odd. Frankly, Scepter is actually an ideal melee condi weapon; keep in mind it isn't projectiles. 


My opinion on it is:
It's not Melee if it doesn't have the "feel", 
So Dagger is Melee as when you hit,  it feels like it connects, 
Axe is not, as though it feels like it hits ( when the sound file plays), it doesn't really have the "sluggish feel" of Melee.
I think in this case specifically it's more a thematic thing than an actual "mechanical" thing.

Unless of course they meant mechanically in which case yes Ranged "can" be used as melee as this isn't DnD

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7 hours ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

Personally I like the Pistol for necromancer. Especs is supposed to be a different experience compared to the base proffession. So I find a pistol a breath of fresh air.  Just like elementalists getting Hammer.

 

I guess torment was chosen because its much stronger in pve now, though thematically poison would have been much better.

 

Ive really tried to like the Scourge, too much for me to keep track off. So Ive been quite enjoying Harbingers. More focused and only having minor dabbling in support. Scourge got repeatedly nerfbatted because of its too strong support in barriers. Which I know people is still QQing about.


I don't get some things , 
Random people: "Necro finally has a Non-Hp Shroud bar" - Scourge had that
Your comment: "Breath of fresh air", How is pistol a breath of fresh air? it's Like Scepter, except has a travel time and is locked to torment.

Then there's Scourge was like 80% Torment focused, 20% Burn focused, and Now harbinger is Torment focused "again".
Scourge could also apply might and some other boons like stability to allies, so why does harbinger also have boons? it's like a weirdly made scourge that someone didn't see AS scourge.

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5 hours ago, Al Masone.1274 said:

Poison would've felt better thematicall, but it's more of a utility condition for the -33% healing, while torment is more of a pure dps condition, especially now that deals more damage if the foe is stationary. 

A ranged weapon in general makes sense for harbinger, as it's designed to be the quintessential glass cannon. Tons and Tons of damage, at the cost of greatly reduced health. Max blight brings gives you 50% reduced health, turning you into an elementalist without sustain or mitigation.

It has a bit of mobility, but not enough to make it a melee oriented spec, and with that in mind I'd rather they give it a ranged weapon rather than using sword at range. This way sword can still be an option for a future 4th elite spec (if all goes well, EoD won't be the last GW2 expansion)


I still don't get why "using dragon jade" Applies torment at all, 
It's unrelated to dragons both Lore wise ( the jade came from Dwayna's blessing on shiro's death), 
Mechanic wise - it's MURSAAT that liked Torment and Spectral Agony, etc, Dragons  were elementalists.

and if it's not Dragonjade, why is this the first time Necromancers have had access to "green crystals" as opposed to Shadows or whatnot.
 

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4 hours ago, Kuulpb.5412 said:


My opinion on it is:
It's not Melee if it doesn't have the "feel", 
So Dagger is Melee as when you hit,  it feels like it connects, 
Axe is not, as though it feels like it hits ( when the sound file plays), it doesn't really have the "sluggish feel" of Melee.
I think in this case specifically it's more a thematic thing than an actual "mechanical" thing.

Unless of course they meant mechanically in which case yes Ranged "can" be used as melee as this isn't DnD

Sure, but we are talking about mechanics here (because there isn't a point to discussion someone's opinion) Scepter is actually as ideal a melee condi weapon as you can get because it's direct damage contribution is garbage and it's not throwing projectiles. That means you can take ONLY condi-focused stat armors and you don't have to worry about reflections. Scepter is essentially a melee weapon that has a 900 range. It doesn't get better than this. Any addition of a true 'melee ranged' condi weapon would STILL be outshone in performance in every situation with the Scepter unless it had better more condi application. That's a pretty tall order IMO. 

What is actually odd is why our melee weapons are so bad at being melee weapons. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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Well other 8 having sword is a pretty darn good reason. There's enough of that already. We need other weapons to see more users and uses. If necro was to get mainhand condi, a mace would be much more suitable. Necros are mages, not fencers. A small portable blunt weapon to deliver a good whack on a head definitely fits the bill more than trying to be the next Lord Fahren.
Addtionally sword is sharp so by design it would bleed - necro has plenty of bleeds without that. While confusion is a condi he has very poor access to, and again a mace fits that type of condition far better (getting disoriented by blunt trauma).

 

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On 9/15/2021 at 8:17 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

What is actually odd is why our melee weapons are so bad at being melee weapons. 

Well, if you remember it, I had a long argument with you about how they should have changed Dagger to be a Condi melee weapon before PoF released. Admittedly, back then it was because I didn't want Scourge to end up only using Scepter and nothing else causing it to have a boring rotation. Which, on another note, is exactly what ended up happening. There was that brief moment where Shade skills had those super short cooldowns with high costs in PvE where you used Dagger to keep life force up after going through your Scepter skills, but that lasted like half a month tops.

Anyway, my opinion on that still stands. Dagger should have more of a Condi focus attached to it.

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On 9/14/2021 at 9:11 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:
  1. Why pistol and not sword? I do agree that yet another mid range weapon isn't especially appaeling on the necromancer. Thought, it could also have been mace.

I agree with this, even though this gave me a good reason to craft hope. 😛

On 9/14/2021 at 9:11 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:
  1. Why torment and not whatever other condition that's not already overused by 1 e-spec? I'm pretty sure that many players are starting to get sick of torment after scourge.

Probably because its strong, i do agree with your sentiment

On 9/14/2021 at 9:11 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:
  1. Why boons? It's like ANet just gave up on the necromancer's thematic after close to 10 years.

I actually like that they made specs that subvert some expectations. (it would have been cooler if the elixer left fields that damaged foes and gave boons to allies.)

On 9/14/2021 at 9:11 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:
  1. Why a monodimensional use of blight? Build it for bonus throught traits and nothing else. Couldn't we have true interaction with this mechanism? Send some stacks on foes (even transformed as a simple vitality debuff like lich form#5), consume stacks for effects, increased rate of building stacks... etc.

I actually like this aspect of blight, its not something you can get rid of. Just something you dont want exept in your burst. So you have to plan around what to do after the burst.

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On 9/18/2021 at 8:56 AM, Aktium.9506 said:

 

Anyway, my opinion on that still stands. Dagger should have more of a Condi focus attached to it.

Separate discussion, but 100%.

 

Dagger (mainhand) should be focused on condis. Life Siphon should cripple + bleed and the #1 chain should be bleed (with vulnerability for #3). #3 could probably inflict vulnerability as well, considering it makes the necro bleed.

 

It is bizarre that #2 synergies with bleed but nothing about the weapon (mainhand) makes enemies bleed. And that offhand is a decent condi/utility weapon while mainhand is the weakest power weapon.

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On 9/15/2021 at 8:34 AM, LucianDK.8615 said:

I guess torment was chosen because its much stronger in pve now, though thematically poison would have been much better.

Not really, "corrosive bullets" mainly implies vulnerability which is heavily featured on Weeping Shots. The heavy torment focus comes from "the source of your power being your pain which is directed at your opponent" so while some people might not like the theme of the e-spec the featured conditions however are thematically coherent.

Edited by Tails.9372
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Honestly biggest question for me is why a single pistol rather than dual pistols?

 

Such a missed opportunity to fill the gaps the spec has with a new offhand weapon, power builds look doa for harbinger, dual pistol could have possibly helped fill that niche, theres a lack of active offensive based elixir usage that could have went into firing poison elixirs/bullets/darts whatever via offhand pistol.

Not to mention, a dual pistol build has often been just a complete meme thing for thief that's never been really taken too serious to be considered actually viable, it's seeing more usage these days with deadeye spec for open world builds but dual pistols are criminally underused in this game, a proper dual pistol focused espec would have been truly a new thing.

Instead it's just the same old boring warhorn or focus with what really feels like a half hearted attempt at a new necro spec.

Edited by Healy.9537
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17 hours ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

Why not pistol and why sword

In short, we already have a ranged condi weapon. If elite specs are meant to fill in the gaps of playstyle, then one of the weapons necro currently lacks is a melee condi weapon. We're also the only class unable to use sword and (I cannot stress this enough) from an aesthetic point of view, swords look amazing. Definitely some of the nicest skins in game.

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I love the pistol considering it has things Thief used to have and things I've always wanted for Thief >.> Ricochet and AoE blasts.

Someone needed to get a Mainhand Pistol since they're underused despite being awesome so I'm glad it was my 2nd favorite class that got it. Even though I'll still pray to Abaddon every day for Thief Ricochet to return and/or Bola Shot to become something useful like an AoE damager for the rest of my life.

Edited by Doggie.3184
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1 hour ago, paShadoWn.5723 said:

Thief haves pierce now, isn't that better?

No, it's considerably worse as enemies rarely lineup and height differences can easily make your shots go into the ground / sky. Ricocheting is a lot more reliable than piercing. You also have to give up a considerable amount of your damage for it while the old trait didn't have an extra penalty and also used to increase your range.

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Ngl, during the beta I didn't try Harb much cause I wanted to check WB. But post-patch I want to play it cause I'm dissapointed with the current patch of specs (only warrior interests me and BS is a bit bs heh). 

 

So if I were to give my copper, I'd say make Harb reliant to poison and bleeding. Dragon jade poisons and bleeds with its sharp projectiles. Sounds good no? OK slap some torment in a bit dps skill, but give it an identity. An unique style. Hell, maybe even confusion. Ofc don't power creep the spec. 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

give it an identity

It has and it's been clearly laid out by the reveal trailer: "you inflict blight on yourself and covert the resulting pain into power for your attacks while the bullets themselves have corrosive properties". Torment and vulnerability fit the theme perfectly, everything else however does not fit that description. Also, at no point did the trailer mention that the new spec is "jade technology based" but if you still really want to shoehorn poison and bleeding into your build then you can: with "Septic Corruption" (the standard trait for every damage focused condi build) Dark Barrage inflicts additional 168 poison damage (vs. 132 torment damage) per hit and both scepter and Barbed Precision can get the bleeding part covered.

Edited by Tails.9372
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56 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

It has and it's been clearly laid out by the reveal trailer: "you inflict blight on yourself and covert the resulting pain into power for your attacks while the bullets themselves have corrosive properties". Torment and vulnerability fit the theme perfectly, everything else however does not fit that description. Also, at no point did the trailer mention that the new spec is "jade technology based" but if you still really want to shoehorn poison and bleeding into your build then you can: with "Septic Corruption" (the standard trait for every damage focused condi build) Dark Barrage inflicts additional 168 poison damage (vs. 132 torment damage) per hit and both scepter and Barbed Precision can get the bleeding part covered.

OK sure. I don't care at all it's Necro. Just gave my copper. I meant identity in terms of dealing dmg. Since torment was a heavy focus on Scourge as many said. 

 

They can do whatever rly. 

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