Convinced my friend to buy this, sorely dissapointed

[Sicktanick.4369]

I have not played since fractals were introduced, and I fondly remember so many things about the game. I convinced my friend to buy all the stuff up to the new expansion and am severely disappointed with the living world. It seems for him JUST to play what is essentially the story of the game he has to spend upwards of 60+ dollars. With that and the base games he is spending 100+ dollars on the game...needless to say he bailed immediately and got a refund for the purchase approved.

 

Is there something I am missing that makes this more reasonable? Very sad to see that returning players/new players are punished so severely.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

Was he aware that he can buy gems with gold earned by playing the game? If he does the daily each day he can buy one LS episode about every 2 months with gold earned by playing.  Add doing the Leyline Anomaly and that’s another 2 to 3 gold a day. By the time he reached level 80 and did all the core content he should have enough gold to buy the first LS2 episode. 

[Sicktanick.4369]

Was not aware of that, but unfortunately I do not think "spend everything you earned from 1 - 80 and 60 days of dailies to play the first part of the story" is a huge selling point.

 

I guess I am just very confused and lost as to how it makes sense to paywall the story when we are already paying for the game...seems like a different way to run a sub service essentially.

[Randulf.7614]

Living worlds are not much different to expansions. You get more maps (in season 3 and 4 at least) than an expac and more story, with just as many rewards, masteries etc. They just lack a big new feature. If expacs justify their cost, then so do living worlds which are just broken into small chunks. Content being paid for once isn’t really comparable to a sub service

I agree Anet aren’t always clear in their marketing, but the content itself justifies the price 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Randulf.7614

[Gehenna.3625]

21 minutes ago, Sicktanick.4369 said:

I have not played since fractals were introduced, and I fondly remember so many things about the game. I convinced my friend to buy all the stuff up to the new expansion and am severely disappointed with the living world. It seems for him JUST to play what is essentially the story of the game he has to spend upwards of 60+ dollars. With that and the base games he is spending 100+ dollars on the game...needless to say he bailed immediately and got a refund for the purchase approved.

 

Is there something I am missing that makes this more reasonable? Very sad to see that returning players/new players are punished so severely.

I know. This has been discussed before on these forums. This is one of the trade-offs for not having a monthly sub, but when you are a new player and you find out this is a very unpleasant surprise.

There is so much to play though and you don't have to do the LS until you get to them. Currently (this week) there is LS4 chapter 4 being given away, next week 5 and the week after 6. Then at some point the Icebrood Saga will be given away chapter by chapter as well. So that's already a lot you would get for free by playing during the next couple of months.

It is a one time purchase though and when you are an active player when they come out new you don't actually have to pay for them, so any future LS chapters that come out, you just have to log in once during the time these chapters come out and you have it for free. So it definitely beats a sub. I mean a sub costs 150 bucks a year plus the price of the game. I really wish they would sell them up front with the expansions though. It's just not a very nice surprise.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Gehenna.3625

[Quench.7091]

I agree that they should've bundled the old living worlds with an expansion bundle. Not only does the separate purchase get in the way of story telling, but it also reduces the number of active players on a map. This will become worse over time as players need to buy more episodes. It's not good for new players or old players.

[Xanadrine.4352]

I always said this is where anet will lose new players, bundle it into the expansions. I hear this as a reason people quit a lot, most new players have no idea you have to buy what is essentially major content separately, since many come from games where an expansion includes everything.  

[ShadowCatz.8437]

19 minutes ago, Quench.7091 said:

I agree that they should've bundled the old living worlds with an expansion bundle. Not only does the separate purchase get in the way of story telling, but it also reduces the number of active players on a map. This will become worse over time as players need to buy more episodes. It's not good for new players or old players.

You could turn that argument around and say that a new player would feel overwhelmed, if they had to do all LS/LW episodes at once and at the same time as progress through main game and two expacks. Picking a LW package or just buy episodes that belongs to main game (core, later HoT, PoF and IBS) to understand what is going on story wise is probably better then jump into all LW at once.

GW2 wiki is good source to read up what happens when needed for LW and how core game connects to that part from story. Attributes (stats) isn't any different and don't gain any advantage in game play from waiting with LW.  Here HoT and PoF are much more important as those packages introduced changes in attributes (add quad stas and new attributes like duration for conditions and boons).

There is really no need to rush as a new player and buy every LS/LW at once. As already pointed out ANet offer LS/LW now for free by weekly events (for owner of game), so there is already ways to get those episodes for free or wait until there is a sale in Gem Store which have happened lately (before weekly events for catching up until EoD will be released). It is also very likely that when EoD have become public that there will be some sales for those that didn't know about free catch up of LW episodes. at least for those parts that can be considered "old" today.

[Linken.6345]

You could ask your friend if they rather buy core 60 bucks hot 60 bucks and pof 30 bucks instead, but then ofcourse get all the living seasons for free.

Im willing to petition Anet to make it possible.

[Quench.7091]

45 minutes ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

You could turn that argument around and say that a new player would feel overwhelmed, if they had to do all LS/LW episodes at once and at the same time as progress through main game and two expacks. Picking a LW package or just buy episodes that belongs to main game (core, later HoT, PoF and IBS) to understand what is going on story wise is probably better then jump into all LW at once.

GW2 wiki is good source to read up what happens when needed for LW and how core game connects to that part from story. Attributes (stats) isn't any different and don't gain any advantage in game play from waiting with LW.  Here HoT and PoF are much more important as those packages introduced changes in attributes (add quad stas and new attributes like duration for conditions and boons).

There is really no need to rush as a new player and buy every LS/LW at once. As already pointed out ANet offer LS/LW now for free by weekly events (for owner of game), so there is already ways to get those episodes for free or wait until there is a sale in Gem Store which have happened lately (before weekly events for catching up until EoD will be released). It is also very likely that when EoD have become public that there will be some sales for those that didn't know about free catch up of LW episodes. at least for those parts that can be considered "old" today.

A player could probably skip past LS2, as the Silver Wastes was granted to players for the HoT story entrance and level 80 boosters. The only big thing that's missing would probably be Rytlock's sudden change.

LS3 needs to be done to know what PoF is about. People don't get to greet the Scion unless they do this part of the story. Players are rushing through the story for access to their mounts, so I wouldn't tell them to hold back if they don't own LS3, but there are two huge plot points missing if a person doesn't do LS3.

LS4 and ICB might bump into a similar issue with EoD, as there were several major character deaths and moments of characters progressing in power.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Quench.7091

[Sicktanick.4369]

43 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

You could ask your friend if they rather buy core 60 bucks hot 60 bucks and pof 30 bucks instead, but then ofcourse get all the living seasons for free.

Im willing to petition Anet to make it possible.

Him and I would much rather have that to be honest. Him thinking he will try a new MMO at a fairly reasonable price given its age, then be slammed with 60+ more dollars once in game is what really killed it for him. If he had known he was committing almost 100 dollars he would of said no, or weighed that choice then and there if it was available with the game.

 

Seems much more reasonable to have "60 dollars bundle with HoT and PoF a long with the living story! Catch up now before EoD release!" or something akin to that, rather we got 39.99 for 2 games plus another 60+ in hidden fees (which is how I see it). Or at least include that you will need to spend extra money.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Sicktanick.4369

[BlueJin.4127]

I know the feeling. When I spent $100 on this game, I was under the impression that I was getting all contents. Later, I found out that there's this whole other thing called LWS that I ALSO need to buy in order to actually get all contents. It felt like such a sham by Anet.

Anet needs to either include all LWS contents in the bundles, or make it clear that buying the expansion bundle doesn't actually include all contents.

Edited September 14, 2021 by BlueJin.4127

[Min Min.9368]

I didnt know that the HoT and PoF bundle does not include the LWSs in them? So the discounted price comes with a discounted content as well? 😦 Oh comeon Anet, this is almost a decade old game and new players should get a real discount.

I understand that for those of us who had bought the game at launch and because of personal commitments we missed those free LWSs when they were released, and we have to pay for them later on. But this is unexpected. I believe both of you are more angry that disappointed. Good luck.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Mil.3562

[Linken.6345]

37 minutes ago, Sicktanick.4369 said:

Him and I would much rather have that to be honest. Him thinking he will try a new MMO at a fairly reasonable price given its age, then be slammed with 60+ more dollars once in game is what really killed it for him. If he had known he was committing almost 100 dollars he would of said no, or weighed that choice then and there if it was available with the game.

 

Seems much more reasonable to have "60 dollars bundle with HoT and PoF a long with the living story! Catch up now before EoD release!" or something akin to that, rather we got 39.99 for 2 games plus another 60+ in hidden fees (which is how I see it). Or at least include that you will need to spend extra money.

So rather pay 150 bucks really?

[Min Min.9368]

Just now, Linken.6345 said:

So rather pay 150 bucks really?

I think what OP meant is that they would rather see the real cost of playing this game and then decide whether to buy it or not, rather thinking they got a good deal but only to find out later that there is a hidden cost for full content.

[Goettel.4389]

LW cost on top of the expats is at best fuzzy, at worst it seems dishonest.

This needs fixing.

[Linken.6345]

9 minutes ago, Mil.3562 said:

I think what OP meant is that they would rather see the real cost of playing this game and then decide whether to buy it or not, rather thinking they got a good deal but only to find out later that there is a hidden cost for full content.

I'd say 15 bucks for core, hot and pof is a steal with the prime gaming code this month.

https://gaming.amazon.com/loot/guildwars2

And once you get to the living story part of the levels you should have figured out if you want to keep playing the game.

Then you either A pay for the dlcs or b dont and wiki/youtube the stories inbettwen.

 

[DarcShriek.5829]

Why would you recommend a game that you don't know much about to your friend?  You should have let him know that he could have purchased the base game and both expansions for $30.  You should have let him know that he could have earned gold to buy gems to buy the living world episodes.  I don't know why you didn't advise him better, but you should have.  It's not really Anet's fault he didn't have a good experience.  He had a bad experience because his friends didn't give him the advice he needed.

[Asum.4960]

It's a lot to ask as upfront investment for a game that one isn't already invested in or knows that one will enjoy, that's true. 

If you put it into the perspective of getting 9+ years of development and potentially thousands of hours of content, there aren't many better deals in gaming though, should you find to enjoy the game - which is something you can test the waters for, for free. 

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that GW2 has fairly few running or hidden costs. 

While some more recent additions/missteps crossed the line and muddied the waters (like borderline essential core game functionality in the form of Build Loadouts being massively over monetized) and some pretty bad and exploitative practices do exist (fake currency conversion at odd values [1.25€/$ = 100 Gems] to manipulate price/value perception, prices designed for "left over" currency to incentivise more spending as well as premium lootboxes with cosmetics exclusive to gambling), there are no sub-fees, season passes or any other shenanigans of modern gaming beyond that to constantly drain your wallet. 

Even LW itself is free for active players when they release. 

 

It's mostly just that sizeable upfront cost of buying all the content and QoL for account and characters - after which you can genuinely play for free for years, where other games usually lure in players for cheap or free and then nickel and dime them to much greater extends. 

 

The latter might be "smarter" business wise, but the GW2 way, even still now, definitely is more consumer friendly over all than most alternatives. 

Additionally, as other's have said as well, while I understand the desire to want to have everything available right away and having the world be your oyster, you really don't need to buy all the 9 years content at once - all of which besides expansions is earnable ingame too, realistically at that. 

 

All that said, yes, they should offer a content pack for each Expansion + LW, and a complete content pack containing everything.

[Wintermute.5408]

That's some kitten timing tbh. I got 2 friends into the game before the returnals started specifically with premise of "all this important kitten that you'll be able to grab for free". Otherwise - yeah, LW seasons are kinda daunting for new players.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Wintermute.5408

[Pacificterror.7805]

I think all things considering, the content you get is at a great price point and it's even better when you consider you only have to pay for the content you want.

The base game is free (now it is, anyway - it wasn't when I created my account!). Each expansion is independent of the other, meaning you don't need to own the first to buy and enjoy the second or third, and you can even cherry pick which Living Story episodes you'd like to buy (or not buy).

There's the fact that there's no monthly subscription fee. That, coupled with the base game being free, gives immediate access to a wealth of content that your friend could have enjoyed to see if the game was "worth the financial investment". Seeing as the base game is the sub-level 80 training ground (all expansion areas are level 80 content), it doesn't hurt your perception by assessing the game that way.

I do think Living World could be bundled better, but I don't feel that anything about the current model is deceptive or hidden......especially when it's content you don't need to buy unless you really want it - in which case you just have to weigh the pros and cons. ANet is also in the middle of releasing episodes for free every week, which is pretty cool of them to do in preparation of the new expansion.

[Loules.8601]

As I know you can complete almost all LW story with person who own it (In his party). 
Yep, you wouldn't gain bonuses from it - but you can complete story with other people. 

[Ashantara.8731]

4 hours ago, Sicktanick.4369 said:

Is there something I am missing that makes this more reasonable? Very sad to see that returning players/new players are punished so severely.

At least they get the first two expansions for free alongside the core game. Everyone else had to buy those separately, so both factions have trade-offs.

[Naxos.2503]

I'm in the camp of those who think the price is fair, but that the price should be advertised better. As in, on the page where the games are sold, there should be an option to buy the Living World seasons as well, or an additional bundle with the games as others have said.

The prices are fair, and I think they've done atleast 4 "Living Season is free" events where you just need to login to claim it. Not counting initial release. That doesn't sound like money grubbing to me.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

3 hours ago, BlueJin.4127 said:

I know the feeling. When I spent $100 on this game, I was under the impression that I was getting all contents. Later, I found out that there's this whole other thing called LWS that I ALSO need to buy in order to actually get all contents. It felt like such a sham by Anet.

Anet needs to either include all LWS contents in the bundles, or make it clear that buying the expansion bundle doesn't actually include all contents.

The game doesn't cost $100, it costs $30 with both expos. I'm not sure how you spent $100 on it.

 

Maybe bought gems from Ultimate? Well that's not paying for the game, that's paying for 4k of gems, which ironically can buy three Living World seasons if you get the packs.

 

So.. you did buy the whole game, more or less.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Hannelore.8153