how would you change the meta?

[Terrorhuz.4695]

Give thief the nerf it deserves.
I'm not talking about "hurr durr let's slightly alter the duration of stab from plasma", I mean burning it to the ground. Remove the passive condi cleanse they get for free on whatever they do, increase heartseeker ini cost if no target is hit (so it can still work as an offensive skill, but not as much as a leap spammer), literally destroy dash, remove the pulsing blind from blinding power, nerf to the ground damage of larcenous strike + flanking strike (maybe increase the damage dealt for every boon removed so it can be used to actually punish tanks instead of pissing off everyone else), there's no need for shadowshot to hit for 4-5k + unblockable blind, make sb2 not able to be casted behind because low cost 4k AoE ranged is already good enough. And most of all give their weapon skills an actual CD, even 0.25s is fine so long as rupting their skills can actually matter anything, because a third of their skills are evades, a third of their skills are instacasts and a third of their skills have no CD so they are basically immune to the most basic form of counterplay.

Once we've done that, we can start talking about giving back something, I don't care if signet gives a whole dodge, sb5 can cost 5 ini for all I care, sb4 can travel twice as fast, give backstab more damage, it's all fine by me.
All I want is for thief players to have a hard counter. Not some "mmmmh I shouldn't engage in this fight but I'll do it anyway and jog away if need be"; I want something they need to actually work to stay away from because if they engage they surely die.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Kuma.1503]

On 9/16/2021 at 4:27 PM, BlackTruth.6813 said:

delete conquest and stronghold, garbage game modes

 

make 2v2 and 3v3 the main game.

 

less bots to play with or it's easier for ANET to make an AI for it if the population is that bad i dunno (for all we know ANETs the ones making bots in pvp)

Tbh I would love it if 3v3 became the new main game mode, but only if real efforts were taken to balance around it. The beauty of 3v3 is that you can control your entire team. You don't have to worry about randos on your team that either afk or intentionally throw/ match manipulate. 

In theory a good enough 3v3 team can get to the top in spite of attempts to cheat, provided they're simply better than everyone else. 

[Leonidrex.5649]

33 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Tbh I would love it if 3v3 became the new main game mode, but only if real efforts were taken to balance around it. The beauty of 3v3 is that you can control your entire team. You don't have to worry about randos on your team that either afk or intentionally throw/ match manipulate. 

In theory a good enough 3v3 team can get to the top in spite of attempts to cheat, provided they're simply better than everyone else. 

you can teleport out of ever 3v3 map and win that way.
3v3 is also boring as kitten and promotes the worst types of builds

[Kuma.1503]

2 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

you can teleport out of ever 3v3 map and win that way.
3v3 is also boring as kitten and promotes the worst types of builds

Teleport out with map hacks or by abusing terrain? I know from experience that you can get knocked out by a Ranger's Point Blank shot. 

 

Still have the screenshot too 🙃

[Leonidrex.5649]

26 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Teleport out with map hacks or by abusing terrain? I know from experience that you can get knocked out by a Ranger's Point Blank shot. 

 

Still have the screenshot too 🙃

I have played against bot that just kept teleporting out of map and having 100% winrate that way, while you die to decay.
Imagine having every single bot do this kitten. FUN

[crewthief.8649]

On 9/17/2021 at 6:49 AM, Tiah.3091 said:

Meanwhile warriors casually one-tapping people for 10k, just like they did 3 years ago.

Where’s this occurring? Here I thought Warrior was one of the weakest classes in sPvP at the moment. Until Tiah.3091 set the record straight, that is…🤔🤪🤪

Edited September 19, 2021 by crewthief.8649

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, crewthief.8649 said:

Where’s this occurring? Here I thought Warrior was one of the weakest classes in sPvP at the moment. Until Tian.3091 set the record straight, that is…🤔🤪🤪

Maybe with Berserker's ammy, rune of the eagle, 3 stacks of Berserker's Power, 25 stacks of might, and 5 stacks of attackers insight.

 

Against a light armored target.

 

I have rarely (like once or twice in 1400 games) gotten arcing slice to hit like that.

[ellesee.8297]

if you build any kind of sustain, you get banned. glass cannons only.

[Waffles.5632]

On 9/17/2021 at 6:12 AM, Ragnar.4257 said:

You mean exactly how the Revealed debuff already works?

Do you have any other suggestions for things to add? Maybe to combat CC spam, we should add a boon that prevents CC? Or maybe to combat conditions, we should add a mechanic to allow players to "cleanse" conditions on them? Man, why has nobody thought of these before. I'm such a genius.

Fun fact, if you hug a trapper-DH closely (or a trapper ranger) they literally can't gain stealth. As soon as they drop a trap, if you're standing in it then it'll cause a damage strike and reveal the trapper. You don't need to equip any special utility, or even draw your weapon, just hold down the W key.

This is an example of someone who does not care about balance, and who is not aware of other similar mechanics which set the precedent for an ICD being needed. Not only would the ICD fix a major problem people have with current DH ( spamming stealth) it wouldn't even be a nerf to experienced DH's because all it changes is timing. One would simply need to space out their traps and put in a little bit of extra effort.

That's what you call a good change. Right now the window to catch a DH is both extremely small, and extremely narrow. It also *requires* 2 people, because 1v1 a DH can choose to escape any fight so long as they leave a trap or two available (it's not like trap CD's are long anyways) Even if all traps are on CD, once one comes back up again, they have access to stealth.

Guardians never had access to stealth before trapper AFAIK, and while it was certainly a cool idea, it is also overtuned and needs an ICD. Pretty hard to argue against this change seeing as how other runes get far less powerful effects and yet have much higher ICD's on them.

Also, fun fact. Trapper gives stealth AND superspeed. So how can one hug a trapper DH exactly? How many classes can reliably get reveal and superspeed AND have it match the duration that DH can stealth and superspeed? You see what I mean? You present a counterplay that legit doesn't work. There is no class that can match the superspeed and stealth of a DH in pvp. Thief can match stealth, but not both stealth and superspeed. The hilarious part is DH doesn't get this from DH, they get it from a rune set. LOL.
 

Trapper rune is the definition of OP, because if you are DH, why would you take anything else right now? It is the only clear choice. Which leads to staleness, because every DH runs trapper. Maybe with an ICD other rune options might start looking enticing but I doubt it because what other rune would give a DH access to that much super speed and stealth?

So no, you can't just press W and hug the trapper. There are a lot of other mechanics at play, you're just choosing to ignore them.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Waffles.5632

[Math.5123]

On 9/16/2021 at 11:24 PM, Waffles.5632 said:

I would like to see a fair compromise of adding a 3 or 5sec ICD to trapper rune. That way they can't just spam it 24/7, which other classes with similar mechanics can't do that. It also means that the counter play of defensively popping a DH's trap, can't be immediately counter-countered by them just instantly stealthing again, which is utter BS.

This change allows you "catch" a DH appropriately, so there's now an actual window where you can safely burst them. Now the DH has to think about what else to use if his trap fails, further increasing the engagement of play.

 

They already can't instantly use it as revealed lasts for 3 seconds. Then trapper rune takes a second to cast. Meaning you have 4 seconds to deal 11k dmg.

[Math.5123]

4 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

This is an example of someone who does not care about balance, and who is not aware of other similar mechanics which set the precedent for an ICD being needed. Not only would the ICD fix a major problem people have with current DH ( spamming stealth) it wouldn't even be a nerf to experienced DH's because all it changes is timing. One would simply need to space out their traps and put in a little bit of extra effort.

That's what you call a good change. Right now the window to catch a DH is both extremely small, and extremely narrow. It also *requires* 2 people, because 1v1 a DH can choose to escape any fight so long as they leave a trap or two available (it's not like trap CD's are long anyways) Even if all traps are on CD, once one comes back up again, they have access to stealth.

Guardians never had access to stealth before trapper AFAIK, and while it was certainly a cool idea, it is also overtuned and needs an ICD. Pretty hard to argue against this change seeing as how other runes get far less powerful effects and yet have much higher ICD's on them.

Also, fun fact. Trapper gives stealth AND superspeed. So how can one hug a trapper DH exactly? How many classes can reliably get reveal and superspeed AND have it match the duration that DH can stealth and superspeed? You see what I mean? You present a counterplay that legit doesn't work. There is no class that can match the superspeed and stealth of a DH in pvp. Thief can match stealth, but not both stealth and superspeed. The hilarious part is DH doesn't get this from DH, they get it from a rune set. LOL.
 

Trapper rune is the definition of OP, because if you are DH, why would you take anything else right now? It is the only clear choice. Which leads to staleness, because every DH runs trapper. Maybe with an ICD other rune options might start looking enticing but I doubt it because what other rune would give a DH access to that much super speed and stealth?

So no, you can't just press W and hug the trapper. There are a lot of other mechanics at play, you're just choosing to ignore them.

Superspeed doesn't mean anything when: rev, ranger, engi, thief, mesmer and core necro still catches you. 

Sure, if you're playing warrior or ele you won't realistically catch DH, but you'll win the 1v1 regardless so it doesn't really matter. 

 

You say that trapper rune is op and it makes the choice "stale", but when in reality it's the only reason dh is even semi playable right now.  If you remove or nerf this rune, the spec will just never see play. 

 

Looking at my post history, you'll see that I don't like the build nor do I play it. So nerf it all you like for all I care. But saying that it's op is just so beyond delusional. 

[Liewec.2896]

step 1. revert the feb 2020 abortion of a patch (which nerfed cc skills to 10 damage.) i'd then balance the cc skills individually, if a particular skill NEEDS a damage reduction, i'd reduce the dmg.

 

step 2. i'd make toughness effect conditions.

 

step 3. i'd buff up the damage of some previously nerfed specs which have been left behind by powercreeps (like staff ele.)

 

step 4. i'd take a look at everything that necro has and balance accordingly, make scourge and MMs less annoying to fight.

[aelska.4609]

Oddly enough, I find the "meta" not so annoying. So I'd focus on making the game more fun with more builds:

1. Remove the RNG from weakness.
2. Do something about that rally mechanic (that can revive a whole team, even if the guy disengaged to an other node right before)
3. Do something about these "safe-revives" utility skills
4. Rework trapper runes (and, if that's a problem for DH, make DH builds non-dependent to cheese options)
5. Rework outdated skills/utilities: game evolved to a more fluid/dynamic combat, so everything rooting or pulsating AoE based is quite meh. Utility skills also tend to have stronger effects now, so that old ones need a fresh update.
6. Reorganize traitlines: Many traits are out of reach simply because the rest of traitline is not interesting enough. I am still not a fan of this traitline system, but i guess it solves balance hell issues
7.  Rework outdated traits.
8. Make toughness more relevant
9. Bring more amulet choices 🙂

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by aelska.4609

[Genesis.5169]

Too the people confused about my changes.

Runes suck and i'd like to unleash them.

I'm buffing every class to kill bunkers that cannot kill bunkers.

Adding Damage back to CC skills that made sense like primelight beam.

 

This would nerf necro because shields wouldn't be enough also support runes could replace support necro shields in thus reducing the amount of necros completely buffing other classes will naturally make necro weaker w/o touching the necro spec not sure at all how this is confusing.

 

Also portals are useless in every game mode, getting teleported to a jumping puzzle is not an accomplishment platforming is not an accomplishment so effectively ever since the WvW nerf portals have been regulated to a select few people who wanna portal people in there free time for a useless achievement point that does nothing at all.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Waffles.5632]

3 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Superspeed doesn't mean anything when: rev, ranger, engi, thief, mesmer and core necro still catches you. 

Sure, if you're playing warrior or ele you won't realistically catch DH, but you'll win the 1v1 regardless so it doesn't really matter. 

 

You say that trapper rune is op and it makes the choice "stale", but when in reality it's the only reason dh is even semi playable right now.  If you remove or nerf this rune, the spec will just never see play. 

 

Looking at my post history, you'll see that I don't like the build nor do I play it. So nerf it all you like for all I care. But saying that it's op is just so beyond delusional. 

This is an example of moving the goal post. You are not the same person, however initially it was

- Just hug DH and press W

When I responded how it also gives superspeed, so literally pressing W won't cut it, then it became

- Oh superspeed doesn't mean anything,  just be one of these X classes.

That's called dismissing, then deflecting. It's wrong.

By your own logic, you admit trapper rune is OP because :

When one rune decides whether or not a class is playable, that means that A) that class is under performing/needs a buff and B) that rune is over performing and needs a nerf.

Take shield away from warrior, it's not suddenly unplayable. Take blink away from mesmer, it's not suddenly unplayable. But add 3 sec ICD to trapper rune?

"DH is completely unplayable"
 

hahahahahaahahahah

Again, trapper rune is the definition of OP, and you admit it's a crutch since you're implying skilled players can't even win w/o it. Remember your own words, DH is only semi-playable, and only because of trapper rune.

It's the only clear choice atm for DH, no other rune even comes close. Nerf it, buff DH accordingly, do whatever, but this whole notion of giving guardian the best and easiest access to both stealth AND superspeed, and it's only "semi playable" right now.... just lmfao.

What makes it even more comical is there is a spec that actually doesn't see pvp play anymore, and it's firebrand. Hmmm I wonder if that also has any connection to DH trapper rune hmmmmmmmmm!!!

 

Edit : Also if you are so against an ICD, and superspeed means nothing. Okay fine then. Keep it as is, but remove superspeed.  What do you say to that?


 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Waffles.5632

[Vancho.8750]

10 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Maybe with Berserker's ammy, rune of the eagle, 3 stacks of Berserker's Power, 25 stacks of might, and 5 stacks of attackers insight.

 

Against a light armored target.

 

I have rarely (like once or twice in 1400 games) gotten arcing slice to hit like that.

Try signet berserker, it is more consistent in doing allot of damage, you can try to do it every time you respawn.

[Math.5123]

1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said:

This is an example of moving the goal post. You are not the same person, however initially it was

- Just hug DH and press W

When I responded how it also gives superspeed, so literally pressing W won't cut it, then it became

- Oh superspeed doesn't mean anything,  just be one of these X classes.

That's called dismissing, then deflecting. It's wrong.

By your own logic, you admit trapper rune is OP because :

When one rune decides whether or not a class is playable, that means that A) that class is under performing/needs a buff and B) that rune is over performing and needs a nerf.

Take shield away from warrior, it's not suddenly unplayable. Take blink away from mesmer, it's not suddenly unplayable. But add 3 sec ICD to trapper rune?

"DH is completely unplayable"
 

hahahahahaahahahah

Again, trapper rune is the definition of OP, and you admit it's a crutch since you're implying skilled players can't even win w/o it. Remember your own words, DH is only semi-playable, and only because of trapper rune.

It's the only clear choice atm for DH, no other rune even comes close. Nerf it, buff DH accordingly, do whatever, but this whole notion of giving guardian the best and easiest access to both stealth AND superspeed, and it's only "semi playable" right now.... just lmfao.

What makes it even more comical is there is a spec that actually doesn't see pvp play anymore, and it's firebrand. Hmmm I wonder if that also has any connection to DH trapper rune hmmmmmmmmm!!!

 

Edit : Also if you are so against an ICD, and superspeed means nothing. Okay fine then. Keep it as is, but remove superspeed.  What do you say to that?


 

This post is just making false statements. Dh does not have the best access to either stealth or superspeed.

And sure, you can argue that the rune is too good. Might even be overpowered, but considering the classes that can use these are absolutely trash tier. It doesn't mean much. If you introduced a rune that straight up buffed your damage by 50%, that would be overpowered. But if the stipulation for said rune is forcing you to run core engi, is the rune truly overpowered? 

The answer is; yes, in a vacuum. But not in practice.

 

I would love for trapper rune to get removed and having DH buffed, I've said this so many times before. Go check in the dh nerfs are overdue thread. But in reality, they won't buff it. I know anet, they do not buff underperforming specs.

 

And I can tell you do not agree with dh only being semi playable. But that's more so a question of what skill level you're playing at. You'll see no dhs in MATs for example. 

[Waffles.5632]

@Math.5123Ohhhhhhh now the rune can be argued as "too good" and it might be overpowered.

Yes because I argued it. And I argued it with true statements, otherwise you wouldn't of backpedaled just now. More deflection too. We are not looking at trapper in a vacuum, we are seeing it practiced every day in pvp.  We can literally point to and see the value of trapper rune on a chart. Map out how many DH's were in pvp before/after trapper rune. I would LOVE to see that data. It would illustrate my point so clearly lol.

And now the shift to question my experience. I have been plat 1 power mirage exclusively for several years now. I assure you I have seen DH being played at all levels. The funny things is, it's not the most OP or broken spec. The rune is just overtuned, and OP for the class, and so every DH now runs trapper, so much so that stealth is now associated with DH despite DH having no actual innate traits or abilities that offer stealth. That's how powerful trapper is. It has completely changed the identity of the class in every pvpers eyes.

Imagine a rune so powerful it changes the perception of the entire class. Yeah.
 

[nativity.3057]

I would want to revert Amulet nerfs/removals.

 

Every amulet change feels like a bandaid nerf to "fix" whatever class starts to take over the meta, ignoring the core mechanic that makes the class strong. 

 

Every season feels like a race to see which class is strong with the current stat selection and balance changes. It just feels like a counter to what GW2 was about in the beginning; where mechanics were core and stats were supplemental to making what you enjoy about the class shine. 

 

You can say that removing certain stat combinations helps with overall balance (because stats are the easiest to change), but what that leads to IMO is a stale meta where certain classes are king by virtue of mechanics. 

[Stalima.5490]

16 hours ago, crewthief.8649 said:

Where’s this occurring? Here I thought Warrior was one of the weakest classes in sPvP at the moment. Until Tiah.3091 set the record straight, that is…🤔🤪🤪

 

It may have something to do with the 2 most hostile things towards melee warrior being nerfed a bit: dragon hunter and scourge, you could hardly get into melee with entire areas just covered in circles and traps etc.

 

the result making warrior alot stronger in comparison by contrast.

[mortrialus.3062]

I would roll back literally everything to before the megabalance aside from profession reworks and then just start normally balancing the game from there.  We'd be way closer to a balanced state if we did that rather than go through this megabalance and having everything rot for 2 years. 

Edited September 19, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[crewthief.8649]

1 hour ago, Stalima.5490 said:

 

It may have something to do with the 2 most hostile things towards melee warrior being nerfed a bit: dragon hunter and scourge, you could hardly get into melee with entire areas just covered in circles and traps etc.

 

the result making warrior alot stronger in comparison by contrast.

I was being sarcastic. Warrior is not even remotely OP in any game mode. The person I quoted is clearly confused.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

 

44 minutes ago, crewthief.8649 said:

I was being sarcastic. Warrior is not even remotely OP in any game mode. The person I quoted is clearly confused.

*sip tea*

Idk man, I have it on good authority that hammer zerker is OP due to its 7 stuns and people just don't play it out of reverence for its overwhelming might.

[crewthief.8649]

53 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

*sip tea*

Idk man, I have it on good authority that hammer zerker is OP due to its 7 stuns and people just don't play it out of reverence for its overwhelming might.

It’s a pride thing. They don’t want people to think that the only reason they dominate is because of hammer zerker’s OP might.

[Math.5123]

19 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

@Math.5123Ohhhhhhh now the rune can be argued as "too good" and it might be overpowered.

Yes because I argued it. And I argued it with true statements, otherwise you wouldn't of backpedaled just now. More deflection too. We are not looking at trapper in a vacuum, we are seeing it practiced every day in pvp.  We can literally point to and see the value of trapper rune on a chart. Map out how many DH's were in pvp before/after trapper rune. I would LOVE to see that data. It would illustrate my point so clearly lol.

And now the shift to question my experience. I have been plat 1 power mirage exclusively for several years now. I assure you I have seen DH being played at all levels. The funny things is, it's not the most OP or broken spec. The rune is just overtuned, and OP for the class, and so every DH now runs trapper, so much so that stealth is now associated with DH despite DH having no actual innate traits or abilities that offer stealth. That's how powerful trapper is. It has completely changed the identity of the class in every pvpers eyes.

Imagine a rune so powerful it changes the perception of the entire class. Yeah.
 

It has nothing to do about backpedaling or deflecting. Ofc in returning to your one argument you're trying to push as fact. 

 

Dh is VERY good at one single thing. Killing bad people. It excels in blowing up unaware people, and luckily for us. That's about 90% of the people playing this game. 

I find it funny you're playing power mirage actually, as I only ever duoQ with one and we duel a lot. DH farms power mirage, it's not even close. There's nothing you can do at equal skill level. This might be why you find them so oppressive. 

 

Much like a reaper your skill level might find power mirage oppressive. Or how a Scrapper might find core necro oppressive. 

I am not against the idea of introducing more runes like trapper. Not necessarily with stealth and superspeed, but runes that alter a skill-type.

 

I think its funny you say "map out how many dhs there were before and after trapper rune in pvp". I advice you to take a look when trapper rune was added. Then make that argument again. 

 

I will tell you exactly why every dh use trapper rune.

 

The class has no damage what so ever when building into sustain. The old dh ran Valor virtues. It had half the cd on trueshot, deflecting shot had twice the travel speed, a third of the cast speed and did damage. The class back then only ever saw play in ranked. Moobs was the only person to ever bring dh into a tournament and they lost every game. 

So even way back when, the class only farmed ranked. Meaning when you nerf almost every damage aspect, you have to go full damage traits and zerk amulet. The only reason this works is because trapper (once again) carries vs bad people. 

But by all means, remove the last straw the spec is hanging by. Even though it underperforms compared to classes like, holo, rev, thief, soulbeast.