Why are we mad over "another" melee spec? All our previous elite specs are range focus!

[Sunshine.5014]

I don't know why people are mad with the new Melee hammer. Our previous Elite specs are all range focus.

I frequently see Weaver, Tempest, even Core Ele spamming the OP skill #1 range attack in downstate for DPS. Who said we don't have range Elite specs?

[fuzzyp.6295]

Actually, this does bring new meaning to the whole "Throw a Cata down" in WvW.

Edited September 16, 2021 by fuzzyp.6295

[Smoosh.2718]

But its not fully melee though.
Wielding a hammer, the catalyst gains access to a mix of midrange and closerange abilities, allowing it to adapt to the situation at hand. Water and Earth attunements are more melee - focused with some defensive tools for when the catalyst finds itself under pressure, while Fire and Air attunements contain midranged offensive skills to unleash damage on their enemies.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Smoosh.2718

[Ultramex.1506]

EH even if its melee, its gonna have many AoE skills which are what i prefer over single target in WvW

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I mentioned the cata thing in the Vindicator thread on how to abbreviate that one. lol

 

I think Cat for Catalyst, Vin for Vindicator, and GunS for Bladesworn. GunS being short for Gunsabre. BS is already used for Banner Slave.

I think Virt and Harb and being used for Virtuoso and Harbinger. Willbender I think is getting called WB, or Willy by others. I will call them Willy anyhow until  they get buffed/reworked lol.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

A lot of people arent really mad about it, it honestly looks like it could be a lot of fun. The problem is we dont know how it will differ from weaver and tempest. If its purely a dps spec, then how will weaver compete with it? And if it has support elements to it, how will tempest compete with it? It would just be nice to have some diversity instead of the melee stack meta where ele is far weaker than other classes.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Paradoxoglanis.1904

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

But its not fully melee though.
Wielding a hammer, the catalyst gains access to a mix of midrange and closerange abilities, allowing it to adapt to the situation at hand. Water and Earth attunements are more melee - focused with some defensive tools for when the catalyst finds itself under pressure, while Fire and Air attunements contain midranged offensive skills to unleash damage on their enemies.

That sounds like a quote - do you have the source?

 

I'd beware a statement like "contain midranged offensive skills", though, since that can cover things like Zealot's Defence and the necromancer dagger where you have a couple of ranged skills but the weapon as a whole is still clearly melee-oriented. 

 

18 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

A lot of people arent really mad about it, it honestly looks like it could be a lot of fun. The problem is we dont know how it will differ from weaver and tempest. If its purely a dps spec, then how will weaver compete with it? And if it has support elements to it, how will tempest compete with it? It would just be nice to have some diversity instead of the melee stack meta where ele is far weaker than other classes.

Could be different forms of support. Consider, for instance, that scourge has a lot of "keep your team alive"-type support, while Harbinger is looking towards being a quickness supplier.

[BlackBeard.2873]

3 hours ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

But its not fully melee though.
Wielding a hammer, the catalyst gains access to a mix of midrange and closerange abilities, allowing it to adapt to the situation at hand. Water and Earth attunements are more melee - focused with some defensive tools for when the catalyst finds itself under pressure, while Fire and Air attunements contain midranged offensive skills to unleash damage on their enemies.

 

If only there were another elementalist weapon that mixed close and midranges, and many skills between 240-600 range, and different varying range capability. You know, like if fire gave you some kind of projectile auto-attack that extended to 400 range, and channeled ability at 400 range, then a dash for 600 range to close gaps, then air had a wider-cone but 240-range autoattack with a couple defensive skills, then water gave you a 600 range auto-attack, a 400 range channel, and a 240 range blast, and then earth gave you another shorter-range single-target auto-attack that ignored height difference, a gap closer, and a projectile block. Then there were some variations in abilities for the off-hand that could either be more or less-aggressive depending on your style.

 

If only we could have something like that....thank god we are getting hammer to fill that completely unfilled niche!!

/s

Edited September 17, 2021 by BlackBeard.2873
clarification of range on fire skills.

[AsterionStarbreaker.9564]

9 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

That sounds like a quote - do you have the source?

 

I'd beware a statement like "contain midranged offensive skills", though, since that can cover things like Zealot's Defence and the necromancer dagger where you have a couple of ranged skills but the weapon as a whole is still clearly melee-oriented. 

 

Could be different forms of support. Consider, for instance, that scourge has a lot of "keep your team alive"-type support, while Harbinger is looking towards being a quickness supplier.

Apparently its from a presskit that got released to some media outlets.
Fire and Air Attunement are like Mid-Ranged range whilst Earth and Water are straight up Close-Ranged/Full Melee.
I've seen it floating around in a lot of places, I think MassivelyOP was the media outlet or something?

Edited September 17, 2021 by AsterionStarbreaker.9564
Clarifying

[Smoosh.2718]

14 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

That sounds like a quote - do you have the source?

I do:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vfz8nbokjkyq5ro/AADTzUrT480cU2aagG22OKjAa?dl=0&preview=Elite+Specialization+Beta+2+press+brief.pdf

[draxynnic.3719]

4 minutes ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

I do:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vfz8nbokjkyq5ro/AADTzUrT480cU2aagG22OKjAa?dl=0&preview=Elite+Specialization+Beta+2+press+brief.pdf

Thanks! Some interesting information on the others there too - a bit disappointing for the bladesworn, while the vindicator is looking more interesting than it did from the teaser alone.

 

I'm still a bit worried about "contain midranged offensive skills" - it doesn't really stop it from being a primarily melee weapon if the autoattacks are melee, and from what I saw in the teaser it looked like some of the melee skills shown were still fire-based. We'll see soon enough, though.

 

20 minutes ago, BlackBeard.2873 said:

 

If only there were another elementalist weapon that mixed close and midranges, and many skills between 240-600 range, and different varying range capability. You know, like if fire gave you some kind of projectile auto-attack that extended to 400 range, and channeled ability at 400 range, then a dash for 600 range to close gaps, then air had a wider-cone but 240-range autoattack with a couple defensive skills, then water gave you a 600 range auto-attack, a 400 range channel, and a 240 range blast, and then earth gave you another shorter-range single-target auto-attack that ignored height difference, a gap closer, and a projectile block. Then there were some variations in abilities for the off-hand that could either be more or less-aggressive depending on your style.

 

If only we could have something like that....thank god we are getting hammer to fill that completely unfilled niche!!

/s

Dagger is a bit of a "sure, you have a 600 range autoattack when in water, but is it really viable?"

 

Vapor Blade is a wet noodle and is still very much close range by current standards of the game when most formerly 600-range weapons have been extended to 900 range. Meanwhile, other dagger skills, including other water attunement dagger skills, are still very much intended for point-blank or at most flamethrower range. It epitomises the approach of release elementalist where even the close-in option still maintains a bit of stand-off capability rather than purely melee, but it just doesn't achieve the range versatility other professions get from a weaponswap.

 

Which is what some people are hoping for here: a broadly similar idea to dagger, but expanded so it's more like what other professions get from weaponswap: some attunements being melee, some attunements being genuinely effective out to about 900 range. That would represent a distinct style of weapon to what elementalist currently has - yes, it's probably closest to dagger, but has a wider range that allows the attunements to have genuinely distinct playstyles, as opposed to dagger which is basically "ideally you'll be close but just outside of melee range at all times".

[Panda.1967]

2 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

The problem is we dont know how it will differ from weaver and tempest.

I’m far less concerned with how it will differ from Weaver and more concerned with how it is any different from Scrapper… from what we have seen in the preview, it is literally just Scrapper with an Elementalist aesthetic…

 

Personally, I don’t get where anyone is coming from with claims that Tempest is a melee elite… sure, you want to be “close” for overloads, but you don’t have to be in melee range… and lets be completely honest here, outside of WvW and some world bosses, you’re not going to be at long range for more than a few seconds ever… Tempest is a ranged elite, period… also, it is more of a support elite than anything really…

[Downstate.4697]

If the wells are stationary its gonna limit its pvp viability.

 

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, Panda.1967 said:

I’m far less concerned with how it will differ from Weaver and more concerned with how it is any different from Scrapper… from what we have seen in the preview, it is literally just Scrapper with an Elementalist aesthetic…

 

Personally, I don’t get where anyone is coming from with claims that Tempest is a melee elite… sure, you want to be “close” for overloads, but you don’t have to be in melee range… and lets be completely honest here, outside of WvW and some world bosses, you’re not going to be at long range for more than a few seconds ever… Tempest is a ranged elite, period… also, it is more of a support elite than anything really…

That's the thing. To use an overload (apart from Water), you need to be within a pretty narrow radius of at least one target - 180 (within some melee weapons with longer than average reach) for Fire up to 360 (out of melee but only by a couple of meters) for Air. And because it's centred on you, to get full use of it you really want to be in the middle on an enemy group to hit multiple targets rather than just having one or two on the edge of your radius. Especially since you want the persistent field to remain somewhere useful after you're finished.

 

You can perform hit-and-run attacks with it, to be sure, coming in to drop an overload in place and then withdrawing into a standoff distance with staff or sceptre, but at the bottom line, if you want to do damage with an overload, you HAVE to go into melee range or at least close to it.

 

If anything, I'd say Tempest is more melee-oriented than Weaver. With Weaver, you can, at least, pack a staff or sceptre and avoid build options that assume that you're going to be in melee like Primordial Stance and, while it's pretty clear that the traits are set up to primarily support melee builds, you can still make a weaver build which can fully employ every aspect of the build while remaining at a stand-off distance. Tempest needs to get in close or its not getting use out of its offensive overloads.

[Dadnir.5038]

7 hours ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

I do:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vfz8nbokjkyq5ro/AADTzUrT480cU2aagG22OKjAa?dl=0&preview=Elite+Specialization+Beta+2+press+brief.pdf

What is said in this feel... arguable. I mean, what they say on Bladesworn and catalyst don't say much more than the teaser. While on vindicator, they seem to think that true nature is a core ability instead of an herald thing... Can such a review even be taken seriously?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

What is said in this feel... arguable. I mean, what they say on Bladesworn and catalyst don't say much more than the teaser. While on vindicator, they seem to think that true nature is a core ability instead of an herald thing... Can such a review even be taken seriously?

I saw the Catalyst portion published formally elsewhere word for word. They say a great deal more on the Bladesworn in there. Warrior forums are kind of pissed about weapon swap atm.

[Dadnir.5038]

2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I saw the Catalyst portion published formally elsewhere word for word. They say a great deal more on the Bladesworn in there. Warrior forums are kind of pissed about weapon swap atm.

Nothing beat a proper hour of gameplay with the actual spec.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Nothing beat a proper hour of gameplay with the actual spec.

That is true. We'll see what it haves to offer soon.

[draxynnic.3719]

7 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Nothing beat a proper hour of gameplay with the actual spec.

Heck, even just seeing the full set of skills and traits rather than less than a minute of video might make a huge difference.

[Gibson.4036]

16 hours ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

I don't know why people are mad with the new Melee hammer. Our previous Elite specs are all range focus.

I frequently see Weaver, Tempest, even Core Ele spamming the OP skill #1 range attack in downstate for DPS. Who said we don't have range Elite specs?

You win the forums today.

Hilarious joke. And even more hilarious that so many responses don't see it.

[draxynnic.3719]

5 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

You win the forums today.

Hilarious joke. And even more hilarious that so many responses don't see it.

From what I see, I don't see any response that suggests that the responder didn't get the joke. People are continuing the conversation based on the subtext of the joke that elementalists tend to spend so much time in downstate that their actual builds don't really matter, and the even deeper subtext that close-range elementalist builds just end up in downstate faster, rather than taking the OP at face value.

[Gibson.4036]

46 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

From what I see, I don't see any response that suggests that the responder didn't get the joke. People are continuing the conversation based on the subtext of the joke that elementalists tend to spend so much time in downstate that their actual builds don't really matter, and the even deeper subtext that close-range elementalist builds just end up in downstate faster, rather than taking the OP at face value.

All right, my mistake, then.

Still awesome.

[Fueki.4753]

People are mad because it's basically the third melee specialization in a row.

Tempest (due to Overloads) and Weaver already were melee specializations.

And now, Catalyst most likely is yet another one (or hybrid melee/range at best).

[Jski.6180]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

People are mad because it's basically the third melee specialization in a row.

Tempest (due to Overloads) and Weaver already were melee specializations.

And now, Catalyst most likely is yet another one (or hybrid melee/range at best).

In pve ranged is any thing over 400 ish so you can do dmg and avoid dmg and in pvp / wvw there is no true ranged due to how much super speed and leaps effects there are. I guess the main annoying thing would be walls in wvw 300 ish range dose not hit ppl on walls see main hand dagger ele where you have nothing to do when siegeing.

The perspective that only 1,200 range skill is true range seems kind of out dated point of view. I think LoS has more to do with what is range and not range to me and that has more to do with walls in wvw then any thing else.

So Hammer ele is "ranged"  with aoe and maybe even non LoS skills. Weaver or sword ele IS a melee class because of small aoe and 130 ranged. Tempest is ranged due to aoe and cone attks from WH.

[Knighthonor.4061]

all you people QQing are going to regret it. Watch