Will alliances fix commander tags and tactic trolling?

[Piney.3076]

This struck me just the other day. I think alliances might add player solutions to two current wvw problems.

1. Commander tags are kinda broken because of "tag watching". You create a new account on your enemy's server. Follow the enemy tag with that account. Continually report their location on voice. To prevent this you must use a private tag. This almost completely defeats the purpose of the tag feature. And really makes wvw suck for all of us zerg followers.
2. "Tactic trolling" is even more straight up cheating. Use the account on your enemy's server to burn emergency waypoint tactic. Attack the keep for a super cheap win. Repeat as often as you like with really nothing anyone can do?

Are these just fixed now? Like, you choose your guild and alliance. Seems unlikely you'd even be playing with cheaters from another server. And even if you are, you can boot the offending player or guild right? Like for tactic trolling, the ewp would go off, and a really annoyed player would announce "player x just trolled that ewp". Right now there is no visible consequence. But with alliances... if we boot that player are they booted from the team?

 

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Piney.3076

[Xenesis.6389]

Alliance =/= World

The person will still be on your world until next world creation, they can still troll whatever.

The only way to prevent it is the same way you can right now, set the tactivators to private.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Xenesis.6389

[Zyreva.1078]

Trolls don't have to be from opposing servers. I think most do it for the sake of annoying players, not to impact the match (which it doesn't most of the time anyway). Spying also doesn't really do much, zergs in particular don't tend to be very sneaky and are easily scouted.

Neither trolling nor spying can nor need to be "fixed".

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Sviel.7493]

Players will have more agency than before to solve the trolling problem, though there is no immediate solution since the person remains until the next match-up.

 

Spying will be harder to do in any specific match-up, but spies could still join a target guild in case they wind up matched against them.  Again, players have more agency to fix it.

I'd still like to better solutions later on, but it's nice that both will have inadvertently been made less of an issue.

[subversiontwo.7501]

It feels like neither of the problems you describe are not much of a problem to begin with.

If you are small enough to want to avoid opposing larger groups you have the option to go private, like you say. If you want to go public why would you want to avoid the opposing groups to begin with? Spontaneously it feels like a non-issue or where there are no legitimate reasons as to why their behaviour should be problematic far beyond what a normal scout can achieve.

Tactics trolling may not be as clear cut but in a similar stroke, it's not like just because people can't be bothered with managing and transfering ownerships, it can not be done. You're describing what at worst is a QoL issue. You have the option to care and organize (albeit a bit tedious) or the option not to care and leave things public. Yes, the system could be better but in reality most people simply do not care about tactics getting yoinked or care enough to yoink them. If you care, you can do something. There's tedium but there is also complacency.

Edited September 17, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[Piney.3076]

Yeahhhh probably best not to boot an offending player or guild out of the match immediately anyway. There could be mistakes or changes of heart. I could definitely see trolls moving to tactics like "player x trolled the ewp" when that player had not, just to troll said player. 

Still... I feel encouraged. You *will* have some measure of control over your team. Blackgate has this one infamous super troll that keeps getting banned but keeps coming back. Don't really care about getting my tiny guild an alliance, but if doing so means I never play on the same side as *that* creep ever again I may just try it.

[Terrier.8732]

21 hours ago, Piney.3076 said:

 I could definitely see trolls moving to tactics like "player x trolled the ewp" when that player had not, just to troll said player. 

 

A simple game generated message in map/team chat would probably resolve most of this: "Player XYZ used XXXXXXX Tactic in *Structure Name Here*"

This could actually be helpful as it would let people know when supply was topped up, that dollies are invulnerable from XXX camp  etc.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 9/17/2021 at 8:45 PM, Terrier.8732 said:

A simple game generated message in map/team chat would probably resolve most of this: "Player XYZ used XXXXXXX Tactic in *Structure Name Here*"

This could actually be helpful as it would let people know when supply was topped up, that dollies are invulnerable from XXX camp  etc.

 

^^^^^ This. It's been suggested in the past and is a really good one. And would both assist in addressing trolling and be a two-fer since it would also be a quality of life item. 

[Zikory.6871]

They should just nerf tactics so they are just a neat thing to have instead of a thing you need to defend. 

Later phases of WvW development should take a real look at objective fighting because it's kind of garbage. Most objectives are either impossible to take because of siege and players or they are impossible to defend due to numbers. A even somewhat fun and engaging siege is pretty hard to come by. 

[Xenesis.6389]

Defenders put up counter siege to defend against siege.

Attackers come by drops rams, catas, or trebs.

Rams, catas, or trebs get killed.

Attackers complain about too much siege defence..... when they don't bother to look for better spots to build, they don't bother to counter clear siege, they don't bother with shield gens. Like yesterday in smc, went to south side, loaded with siege defense, go to the ne gate, well what do you know, no siege, but no the zerg putzs around south for a good 10 mins before they realize this.

It's always about brute force their way through an objective, cause ain't nobody got time for counters.

[Xenesis.6389]

3 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

^^^^^ This. It's been suggested in the past and is a really good one. And would both assist in addressing trolling and be a two-fer since it would also be a quality of life item. 

 

 

How exactly does that assist with trolling? trolls don't care if their name gets out, in fact they might be delighted to light up everyones screen on the map with their name three times in a row by smacking all the tactivators at the same time in an objective.

 

You can't report them, nothing will happen to them, so how does this address trolling?

 

[Gwaihir.1745]

On 9/16/2021 at 6:11 PM, subversiontwo.7501 said:

most people simply do not care about tactics getting yoinked or care enough to yoink them. If you care, you can do something. There's tedium but there is also complacency.

Most wvw players complain about tactics being used either way. Its hilarious how people still complaint about an EWP being 'hot' after all these years. Every class in the game can slot a skill to walk out of there just fine.

[Xenesis.6389]

36 minutes ago, Gwaihir.1745 said:

Most wvw players complain about tactics being used either way. Its hilarious how people still complaint about an EWP being 'hot' after all these years. Every class in the game can slot a skill to walk out of there just fine.

 

Which skills are those? the invul or teleport or stun break or condi cleanse or stability skills? because hot ewp usually means standing in a bomb as you load in.

 

I usually survive those by just loading in with my mount.

 

 

[Terrier.8732]

8 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

 

How exactly does that assist with trolling? trolls don't care if their name gets out, in fact they might be delighted to light up everyones screen on the map with their name three times in a row by smacking all the tactivators at the same time in an objective.

 

You can't report them, nothing will happen to them, so how does this address trolling?

 

My suggestion was not to splash it across the screen, but to have a simple "Game Message" in chat. I agree that splashing it across the map would just give the trolls more attention.

Putting trolling aside for a moment, when I'm roaming/scouting, I'd love to see quickly if a tactic has been pulled, say, for dollies going invul at a camp etc, as it would likely save me a lot of running around and wasting time. Or, if leading, that a WP has been pulled, or Invul used, simply to save having to click on the structure on map, clicking again to change the tab..... just a QoL thing for those paying attention to such things to get the info faster 🙂

[Xenesis.6389]

42 minutes ago, Terrier.8732 said:

My suggestion was not to splash it across the screen, but to have a simple "Game Message" in chat. I agree that splashing it across the map would just give the trolls more attention.

Putting trolling aside for a moment, when I'm roaming/scouting, I'd love to see quickly if a tactic has been pulled, say, for dollies going invul at a camp etc, as it would likely save me a lot of running around and wasting time. Or, if leading, that a WP has been pulled, or Invul used, simply to save having to click on the structure on map, clicking again to change the tab..... just a QoL thing for those paying attention to such things to get the info faster 🙂

 

So you want a change that could potentially spam your chat to save yourself two clicks on an objective? well the first time, the second time you open the objective it stays on that panel you closed it on the first place.

 

Well sure long as it's on a channel I can turn off, I really don't need to know every single tactivation usage on the map.

[anduriell.6280]

On 9/17/2021 at 12:03 AM, Piney.3076 said:

This struck me just the other day. I think alliances might add player solutions to two current wvw problems.

1. Commander tags are kinda broken because of "tag watching". You create a new account on your enemy's server. Follow the enemy tag with that account. Continually report their location on voice. To prevent this you must use a private tag. This almost completely defeats the purpose of the tag feature. And really makes wvw suck for all of us zerg followers.
2. "Tactic trolling" is even more straight up cheating. Use the account on your enemy's server to burn emergency waypoint tactic. Attack the keep for a super cheap win. Repeat as often as you like with really nothing anyone can do?

Are these just fixed now? Like, you choose your guild and alliance. Seems unlikely you'd even be playing with cheaters from another server. And even if you are, you can boot the offending player or guild right? Like for tactic trolling, the ewp would go off, and a really annoyed player would announce "player x just trolled that ewp". Right now there is no visible consequence. But with alliances... if we boot that player are they booted from the team?

 

 

The targetted trolling you are talking about it will effectively dissapear, the only way other players will be able to join an enemy alliance is if they join the enemy guild.

 

However the random tactics pulling will still happen.

[gloflop.3510]

There are players joining a world as part of a guild and there are players joining a world a randoms. If the players join as randoms, they will still troll as hell. Also, players who get kicked out of a guild will not disappear. They will rather be angry and might turn their anger against their own team. So, I doubt that alliances will change trolling at all.

[Sylvyn.4750]

Alliances could break up the T1 powerhouses, spread players more evenly and hopefully eliminate the potential for bandwagoning.

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 9/20/2021 at 2:51 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

 

How exactly does that assist with trolling? trolls don't care if their name gets out, in fact they might be delighted to light up everyones screen on the map with their name three times in a row by smacking all the tactivators at the same time in an objective.

 

You can't report them, nothing will happen to them, so how does this address trolling?

 

Trolls like to know they have trolled people, they don't like that its know that they are known. And yes it also gives more merit when they are reported for ANet to check into the activity and take account action since it probably does fall under ToS. Please even if it didn't impact for trolling its still a good QoL since it handles the team reporting so people can get the message about things like EWP. Not saying this would be for all tactavatiers but for certain ones, example EWP. 

[Xenesis.6389]

5 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Trolls like to know they have trolled people, they don't like that its know that they are known. And yes it also gives more merit when they are reported for ANet to check into the activity and take account action since it probably does fall under ToS. Please even if it didn't impact for trolling its still a good QoL since it handles the team reporting so people can get the message about things like EWP. Not saying this would be for all tactavatiers but for certain ones, example EWP. 

 

As far I'm aware of no one gets banned for trolling siege, supplies, or tactivators in wvw, they may get it for griefing players, but they don't even get it for worse cases than trolling, aka the current southeast tower exploit.

 

So again I fail to see how exactly is naming and shaming(something that's actually in their ToS) suppose to help.

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

As far I'm aware of no one gets banned for trolling siege, supplies, or tactivators in wvw, they may get it for griefing players, but they don't even get it for worse cases than trolling, aka the current southeast tower exploit.

 

So again I fail to see how exactly is naming and shaming(something that's actually in their ToS) suppose to help.

Let me start by saying I am not saying all tacts, but key ones so that might be the differences here. EWP is the main one. Now coding for local ones I might see as well like local map chat for CF or ASD to help alert your side trouble is up, but EWP crosses maps.

 

I don't think ANet shares ban information today, and I don't think that if the software feature did this is would be a considered naming and shaming since it would be a game feature. If anything this would be more related to one player saying something to another in team's chat which happens all the time. So not sure if any of that is relative.

 

But that said, let's look at this from the QoL side. Where is it a disadvantage to have the game do a shout out that a player would make when they activate the EWP? Why would you not want the game to do that? I am not certain there are many times when a EWP is pulled that you wouldn't want it made to team chat since that is the core function of EWP as far as I am aware. Get people a quick way to get to the point that has that feature and they need help. Sure I have seen people say they are going to pull it to regroup their side, but that's rare. Weigh that against the times when its pulled to allow you to get reinforcements to a place for a fight and it's a vast difference. So from a QoL standpoint it has additional merit since it saves the player that's activating it an issue. 

[Xenesis.6389]

There's map and team chat, do you not use those?

I also don't care to get messages for an ewp for a map that's queued, we already get spam in chat about the usage I don't need the game to also spam me.

 

But like I said, if they have it so I can turn it off, have at it.

[gloflop.3510]

2 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Let me start by saying I am not saying all tacts, but key ones so that might be the differences here. EWP is the main one. Now coding for local ones I might see as well like local map chat for CF or ASD to help alert your side trouble is up, but EWP crosses maps.

One can also put it in a separate channel. I am thinking of the guild channels which one can activate or deactivate in the chat menu. But anyway, I think, the entire topic should get its own thread and moved out of the "will alliances fix" corner.

[Raven.1793]

I think player solutions will only go so far for either problem. Kicking the cheater or spy from your guild is probably the best you can do. To do better would require a technical approach. For example, allowing ownership transfers to encourage private tactics or introducing squad options to hide tag location and ban individuals from public tags. 

[Nekro.3096]

Would be nice if they added a: 'x person used x tactic' tooltip alongside the cooldown when looking at upgrades.