Vindicator's dodge - lack of visual information

[RabbitUp.8294]

This is a problem I noticed in the stream, the dodge mechanic feels hard to read for both the rev player and their opponents in pvp/wvw.

All 3 GMs change the cost (150, 100, 50), but the endurance bar stays exactly the same, and unless I'm mistaken so does the visual. So the rev player has to remember what GM they chose and the opponent will have to pay extra attention to notice whether their rev opponent got a buff or a barrier to identify what dodge they are using. And it's pretty significant, knowing that one type of dodge takes 3 times as long to rechange as another completely changes how one should approach the fight.

 

For the rev player, I think the interface should inticate the 50 points segments, maybe put small dots instead of vertical lines. So you know based on the number of segments what dodge you are using and how much it will take to recharge.

For the opponent, there should be more more visual variation between the dodges. Like make the offensive one purely orange, the defensive one purely blue, and the mixed one will use the current design with both colours.

[Heinel.6548]

I mean, if an enemy vindicator is always trying to dodge onto you, they're using the offensive one. If they are dodging into allies, they're using the defensive one. What's hard to see?

 

 

[Warscythes.9307]

2 minutes ago, Heinel.6548 said:

I mean, if an enemy vindicator is always trying to dodge onto you, they're using the offensive one. If they are dodging into allies, they're using the defensive one. What's hard to see?

 

 

What if the rev dodge into a fight with both friendly and enemies. If you are the enemy then how do you tell if you need to think about negate the hit or ignore it because is a heal? I don't think this will be a big issue ultimately just because the dodge itself didn't look like it does a lot of damage, but this is nevertheless something that should be cleared up. If is damage the circle is red, if is heal circle is green etc.

[Heinel.6548]

4 minutes ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

What if the rev dodge into a fight with both friendly and enemies. If you are the enemy then how do you tell if you need to think about negate the hit or ignore it because is a heal? I don't think this will be a big issue ultimately just because the dodge itself didn't look like it does a lot of damage, but this is nevertheless something that should be cleared up. If is damage the circle is red, if is heal circle is green etc.

 

I mean, this is clearly a kneejerk reaction just looking at the UI in isolation and ignoring actual game play. Given the size of the aoe, it's almost impossible to always have allies and enemies caught in it. In an entire battle it can maybe happen once if lucky. And in the case that it does catch both sides in the aoe, the pathing of the player will betray their intent. But in case anyone is still confused, this is a non issue as soon as the very first dodge is seen in action. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Heinel.6548

[Warscythes.9307]

1 minute ago, Heinel.6548 said:

 

I mean, this is clearly a kneejerk reaction just looking at the UI in isolation and ignoring actual game play. Given the aoe, it's almost impossible to always have allies and enemies caught in it. In an entire battle it can maybe happen once if lucky. But in case anyone is still confused, this is a non issue as soon as the very first dodge is seen in action. 

The AoE not exactly tiny. no is not always to have allies and enemies caught. Will it happen a lot more often than you think especially in fights like WvW where people get tangled together? Absolutely. I think this is a perfectly reasonable request. 

[Heinel.6548]

1 minute ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

The AoE not exactly tiny. no is not always to have allies and enemies caught. Will it happen a lot more often than you think especially in fights like WvW where people get tangled together? Absolutely. I think this is a perfectly reasonable request. 

 

In the supported version of WvW, so no weird handshake GvG, this will not even register since the entire area will be blanketed by scourge aoe visually blocking out everything else.

[Warscythes.9307]

1 minute ago, Heinel.6548 said:

 

In the supported version of WvW, so no weird handshake GvG, this will not even register since the entire area will be blanketed by scourge aoe visually blocking out everything else.

Which is why is even more important to have better visual clarity than anything else instead of pushing it under. Look mate I agree that this is probably not priority, but I don't see this be a super intricate change either and it deserves to be on the backburner or consideration somewhere. That's really it.

[Heinel.6548]

1 minute ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

Which is why is even more important to have better visual clarity than anything else instead of pushing it under. Look mate I agree that this is probably not priority, but I don't see this be a super intricate change either and it deserves to be on the backburner or consideration somewhere. That's really it.

 

And your solution to visual clarity is to add even more telegraphs that absolutely must be seen?

 

You are making the problem worse.

[Warscythes.9307]

8 minutes ago, Heinel.6548 said:

 

And your solution to visual clarity is to add even more telegraphs that absolutely must be seen?

 

You are making the problem worse.

You are still going to see circles, they are just going to be different colors. How is that going to be worse? I just don't understand where is the resistance to this request coming from. This is literally just changing the color of a circle depending on if is a heal aoe or damage aoe which sounds very reasonable especially considering you are going to see circles regardless if they make this change or not. Hell you can probably do something like you can't see the enemy Vindicator's heal aoe because it doesn't do anything to you. That's actually less clutter. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Warscythes.9307

[Heinel.6548]

Adding color adds to information overload frame by frame. Right now the ring tells you the location of the revenant and the ETA of the end blast. That's two pieces of information. Color coding it bumps it up to three. Again, not a whole lot when viewed in isolation. It is a problem in actual game play. Showing you a healing ring can also confuse you if you thought it was allied when it's not. No, removing the heal aoe circle for enemies is also not a good idea. You do need to know where revenant is at, where they are going, and when they are going to land.

At most i could agree to the ring changing color based on whether it's an allied rev or an enemy rev (which might already be the case already), because we already have aoes that differ in color based on allegiance , but that's it.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Heinel.6548

[Warscythes.9307]

22 minutes ago, Heinel.6548 said:

Adding color adds to information overload frame by frame. Right now the ring tells you the location of the revenant and the ETA of the end blast. That's two pieces of information. Color coding it bumps it up to three. Again, not a whole lot when viewed in isolation. It is a problem in actual game play. Showing you a healing ring can also confuse you if you thought it was allied when it's not. No, removing the heal aoe circle for enemies is also not a good idea. You do need to know where revenant is at, where they are going, and when they are going to land.

At most i could agree to the ring changing color based on whether it's an allied rev or an enemy rev (which might already be the case already), because we already have aoes that differ in color based on allegiance , but that's it.

I disagree with it be information overload simply is only overload when there's too much piece of information present. The current issue is lack of information, adding onto it doesn't overload it if that the initial starting point is low. Is like saying if add water to an empty bucket is going to overflow it when there's no water in the first place. 

 

I am arguing that it is precisely in gameplay that this lack of visual clarification will be an issue eventually. If you don't like WvW due to scourge circles, then consider in PvP you are low on hp and a Vind jump on you. You have no idea if is a heal dodge or damage dodge. If you knew is damage then you can try to counter it, if you know is heal then you can just ignore it and counter his follow up damage instead. Is situations like this that I would consider it to be valuable and no, I don't think this is information overload. Is not like I am suggesting adding rainbow colors to it.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Warscythes.9307

[RabbitUp.8294]

Ok enemy clarity is one thing, but our own endurance should be easier to read. 3 different dodges with different costs and many endurance recovery options, no reason why they can't display the 50 endurance segments.