Was Joko Right?

[Tekoneiric.6817]

I popped into my GW2 account for 10 minutes and helped steal the mystic lunch money from an energy being, put the beat down on some grawl because they got in the way and took down 10 krait because I have a daily quota on them. We're supposed to be playing the hero; right?

Edited September 18, 2021 by Tekoneiric.6817

[Vayne.8563]

The anomaly isnt' a sentient being but a creature made of excess magic. It shouldn't exist at all, and it's dangerous and has to be put down.  Krait are slavers and just evil in general. We've never met a friendly krait. The grawl attack you if you go near them, and you defend yourself.  There are areas of this game where your good status could be questions but none of the examples you've furnished are that type of thing.

[Rogue.8235]

Yep pretty much.  We've collectively completed full, extinction-level genocide many times over for each species.

'Tis the nature of MMORPGs to be genocidal maniacs, viewing the world as being populated by many different shapes of loot bags.   Sometimes those loot bags growl, squeak, or talk; we don't hear it over the sound of inventory filling up.

 

Edit: Except dungeons.  We let those guys live unless they work in management.  Then we kill them.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Rogue.8235

[AgentMoore.9453]

We eat Choya pulp in front of a Choya chieftain, tell the tortured Druids of Draconis Mons that their pain is 'fascinating', and routinely refer to species like the Grawl and Skritt as 'lesser races'.

So yes, turns out we're the baddies. Oops.

[Westenev.5289]

I, for one, relish the chance to kill humans in the mists. Stomping sunspears and frightened ascalonians brings back memories of simpler times.

 

... I swear Detha hates humans, given how they are usually the enemy.

[Mil.3562]

We kill dragons and human god in the name of justice. What else is there to say?*coughevilbeinganetmadeuscoughcough*

I fear for Aurene or maybe not. I never like her.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Mil.3562

[Gehenna.3625]

7 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

Yep pretty much.  We've collectively completed full, extinction-level genocide many times over for each species.

But is it really genocide if they respawn every time you kill them?

[lokh.2695]

Since the winner usually gets to write the history, yeah, we're totally the good guys/gals here.

[LSD.4673]

The Joko thing is about as profound as applying that logic to an adventure game protagonist.

 

It's a little snigger of a joke...but surely, surely(!) not a plot point. Surely?

[Gibson.4036]

Waiting for the reformed Krait we’ll encounter in Cantha.

It’s inevitable.

[ASP.8093]

15 hours ago, Tekoneiric.6817 said:

and took down 10 krait because I have a daily quota on them. We're supposed to be playing the hero; right?

Nothing more heroic than having a daily quota of dead slavers.

[Gehenna.3625]

2 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

Nothing more heroic than having a daily quota of dead slavers.

well, it beats collecting truffles while being transformed to a pig.

[Zebulous.2934]

I always thought we weren't the main character in the story.  First Trahearn go the legendary sword, and fulfilled his destiny.  Now Caithe Is Aurine's champion, not us.  To me it is refreshing to not be THE chosen ONE.  Sure we are heroes, but we also go around helping in local relief efforts and running errands.  I think we are Chosen One adjacent.  

[Klowdy.3126]

16 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

The anomaly isnt' a sentient being but a creature made of excess magic. It shouldn't exist at all, and it's dangerous and has to be put down.  Krait are slavers and just evil in general. We've never met a friendly krait. The grawl attack you if you go near them, and you defend yourself.  There are areas of this game where your good status could be questions but none of the examples you've furnished are that type of thing.

Lol, you got a confused face on a very clear, and well articulated post, so you upset someone, lol.

[yann.1946]

16 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

The anomaly isnt' a sentient being but a creature made of excess magic. It shouldn't exist at all, and it's dangerous and has to be put down.  Krait are slavers and just evil in general. We've never met a friendly krait.

tbh, this one is an interesting point. Are krait inherently evil? Have me ever made an attempt to make an alliance with them?

16 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

The grawl attack you if you go near them, and you defend yourself.  There are areas of this game where your good status could be questions but none of the examples you've furnished are that type of thing.

 

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Praise Joko!

[radda.8920]

Of course, joko is always right about everything

[Zuldari.3940]

We need a truly evil playable faction. Like a schism of beliefs, some players could splinter into a faction of the white mantle or something. Where they go around causing the events and trouble we as the hero have always had to deal with. 

[Vayne.8563]

3 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

tbh, this one is an interesting point. Are krait inherently evil? Have me ever made an attempt to make an alliance with them?

 

I think the krait are inherently evil. We've seen grawl tribes that are good. We've seen ogre tribes that are allies. But there's no green krait in the entire game. They're known slavers. They've never been used in story in any way but as villains. If there is a krait out there that's good, I haven't seen him/her.

[yann.1946]

50 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I think the krait are inherently evil.

This is not the same thing as the things you say next.

50 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

We've seen grawl tribes that are good. We've seen ogre tribes that are allies. But there's no green krait in the entire game. They're known slavers. They've never been used in story in any way but as villains. If there is a krait out there that's good, I haven't seen him/her.

That only tells us the writers havent made us interact with friendly krait. 

I agree the story thus far has used the krait only as foil to show evilness, but that does not answer the question of whether they are inherently so.

 

THis is in contrast to all the corrupted creatures we fight (branded, destroyers etc.) as their their aligment is directly correlated to their "overlord" as they are extension of themselves.

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

This is not the same thing as the things you say next.

That only tells us the writers havent made us interact with friendly krait. 

I agree the story thus far has used the krait only as foil to show evilness, but that does not answer the question of whether they are inherently so.

 

THis is in contrast to all the corrupted creatures we fight (branded, destroyers etc.) as their their aligment is directly correlated to their "overlord" as they are extension of themselves.

From the wiki:

 

Originally from the Unending Ocean, the krait rival even the charr for viciousness and cruel ingenuity. These intelligent creatures are vicious and xenophobic, attacking and enslaving all other species on sight.

[Rogue.8235]

15 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

But is it really genocide if they respawn every time you kill them?

 

Good point.  We're practicing population control methods for species that would overpopulate the continent to the point of irreversible, ecosystem-wide, catastrophic damage.

Moral dilemma solved with this fact right here.  They respawn so fast.

😇

 

[AgentMoore.9453]

1 hour ago, Vayne.8563 said:

the krait rival even the charr for viciousness and cruel ingenuity.

Okay, and then there's Tybalt Leftpaw and the entire Olmakhan culture.

This is more a case of ArenaNet writing entire species/factions as monoliths and then later trying to make them relatable either as a whole or by introducing individuals that vibe with the main cast. Nightmare Court's got Gavin. Sons of Svanir have Rojan. The Humans who slaughtered their way to power and (twice) used twisted magic to destroy their own people/nations have the player character, Queen Jennah, and about 80% of the NPCs we've met as examples of their moral variance and depth.

If we accept that sentient races are comprised of individuals, it's kind of silly to be like 'but the Krait are all evil, no exceptions' when even the Sylvari Firstborn were like 'aw look at these baby Krait, it would be wrong to kill them just because they're Krait.' The disagreement between the First and Secondborn Sylvari about the baby Krait led to the creation of the Nightmare Court - that's how heated the argument got.

But this is all way more in-depth philosophy than the OP intended which was more a simple, general question of 'do we do the bad?' to which the answer is 'oh no, we totally do'.

[Rogue.8235]

7 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

Okay, and then there's Tybalt Leftpaw and the entire Olmakhan culture.

This is more a case of ArenaNet writing entire species/factions as monoliths and then later trying to make them relatable either as a whole or by introducing individuals that vibe with the main cast. Nightmare Court's got Gavin. Sons of Svanir have Rojan. The Humans who slaughtered their way to power and (twice) used twisted magic to destroy their own people/nations have the player character, Queen Jennah, and about 80% of the NPCs we've met as examples of their moral variance and depth.

If we accept that sentient races are comprised of individuals, it's kind of silly to be like 'but the Krait are all evil, no exceptions' when even the Sylvari Firstborn were like 'aw look at these baby Krait, it would be wrong to kill them just because they're Krait.' The disagreement between the First and Secondborn Sylvari about the baby Krait led to the creation of the Nightmare Court - that's how heated the argument got.

But this is all way more in-depth philosophy than the OP intended which was more a simple, general question of 'do we do the bad?' to which the answer is 'oh no, we totally do'.

 

 

Take it a step further.

These are Sapient species, not just sentient.  Capable of abstract thought of intangible concepts existing only in the metaphysical.  Sentient creatures, like dogs, cannot do this.

 

However, with such emergence of consciousness comes an equal capability of of irrationality.

Bacteria never do anything to harm themselves with there very low level of emergent consciousness.

Dogs, being sentient, sometimes do dumb things but, generally, aren't too irrational in their behaviors.

Humans, being sapient, are capable of incredible self-destruction that no other species on Earth can manage.  We are capable of such incorrect and irrational thought processes with our upper level of emergent consciousness.

 

The species of Tyria that we are pontificating are generally sapient.  With this level of emergent consciousness comes capabilities of such paradigm-shifting individuality that the players would complain it is bad writing.  However, think about it.  Mother Theresa and Adolf Hitler are the same species.  

 

Now, understanding that there is remarkable differences in individuals of the same species, let's circle back to the points of inheritance of morality.

If a single species is able to exemplify both ends of the spectrum in such an extreme capacity, then what moralities are being inherited?  Or, are there other factors involved that are not purely attributable to factors beyond genetics and limited emergent consciousness, id est sapient creatures are capable of metaphysical thought.

If such external factors play a significant role, such as environment (to include societal pressures), then there is a very limited influence of inherited metaphysical rationale.  On the topic of inherited morality, is there such a thing as a species having such a genetic structure as to inherit metaphysical concepts?  Again, morality is a purely metaphysical construct that does not exist in the realm of physics (astronomical, macro, quantum).  I am not sure how metaphysical concepts can transcend into the physical structures of genomes to be inherited.

 

So, could it be that the "evilness" of a species is largely dependent on factors external to the inherited physical traits of said species?  Is it largely dependent on factors of societal constructs and historical interactions?  Are such species capable of abstract thought as an individual, id est sapient? 

Answering these questions illuminates the subject of a species being inherently evil versus evil as a matter of context.

 

I have written extensively (100+ page papers) on the topic of the metaphysics of morality.  This is kind of one of my specialty areas.  I can keep going on and on but I'll save ya'll the brain aneurysms.

 

 

 

[DaFishBob.6518]

5 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I think the krait are inherently evil. We've seen grawl tribes that are good. We've seen ogre tribes that are allies. But there's no green krait in the entire game. They're known slavers. They've never been used in story in any way but as villains. If there is a krait out there that's good, I haven't seen him/her.

Friendly Krait here:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Raven's_Revered