Take 2 on Bladesworn

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Perhaps I've personally been too judging with the spec. But my fears are plenty and after a whole year of asking for improvements, proposing ideas and hoping for the best, with warrior getting consistently more nerfs (BS has no big resistance pool and we all thought the reso change may make room for something here) I have expressed my disdain towards the spec and how it plays. 

 

On the good side, I have rethinked my approach to the spec. I focused too much on its dueling capabilities. It's support options are also a bit weird to think on (shout support). So I am coming with a diff idea to it. A zerg power dps/support idea. One that is more unique than what we are used to as Burstzerkers, Phalanx Warrs or DPS SpBs. 

 

The build would be:

 

Tactics, Discipline, Bladesworn

 

Axe/Pistol or Axe/Axe or Sword/Axe (no ammo here tho) Or Axe/Sword (for the block, and the ammo) 

 

Leg Specialist->Warrior's Cunning->Martial Cadence 

 

Warrior's Sprint->Destruction of the Empowered->Heightened Focus

 

River's Flow->Lush Forest/Unshakable Mountain (Depends on playstyle of lesser CD paired with Martial Cadence or more defense) ->Unyielding Dragon/Daring Dragon (Depends on playstyle again, either more dmg or more quick dmg) 

 

 

I would recommend for Strength or even Arms over Discipline, but given how this is an early concept, first I want to see how it works in zerging and where it can be altered. 

 

Dragon Slash Boost is used for repositioning and cleave, Dragon Slash Reach is used in range spikes before the clash, Dragon Slash for cleave. Triggerguard for aegis to tank enemy pulls and range spikes, flicker step to port closer to the comm after a pull or for general repositioning, in or out of dragon trigger use. 

 

Blooming Fire and Axe 5 or Pistol 5 main cleave outside Dragon Trigger. Break step for positioning. The other projectile related skills are ough not to be used much cause reflects. 

 

Utilities would be:

 

Defiant Stance, Bulletproof Barrier (big component), Electric Fence (big component), Dolyak Signet/Balanced Stance (can run Flow Stabilizer but you stay with no stunbreak and are reliant to a Firebrand), Tactical Reload (for the ammo). 

 

Tldr: Big spike dmg, projectile hate, immob from range for range spikes and Bubbles. 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Vancho.8750]

For PVP and WvW it looks good even great since it doesn't take the spots for other warrior builds.
For PVE though it just takes the spot of berserker if it does more damage if it doesn't it ends up like spellbreaker. Having 3 elite specs that take the same role in PVE sucks, cause one will always be the best choice. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

21 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

For PVP and WvW it looks good even great since it doesn't take the spots for other warrior builds.
For PVE though it just takes the spot of berserker if it does more damage if it doesn't it ends up like spellbreaker. Having 3 elite specs that take the same role in PVE sucks, cause one will always be the best choice. 

Yeah I can def see that. But since I don't PvE much if at all, I'll leave that side of improvement to others. Speaking from a WvW perspective, I do wonder if they would change bulletproof barrier to a projectile block instead of destruction so it can make use of shield master and become a wall of reflection. Perhaps that could be a good alternative to discipline since (maybe) this spec won't rely to it as much as thought. We shall see. 

 

In another note, I'd propose for the addition of aegis in the heal skill on cast. Because the timing for it, even when both charges are used, requires time which is more than enough to down you and a single block can save you. Besides the aegis idea already exists in the spec so perhaps they can capitalize a bit more on it, such as the minor protection proc giving aegis on dragon trigger as well to give the incentive to the player to take and attack and keep charging the trigger even if the aegis has already been burned through. 

 

The game play they show rn is very glassy despite what Cal seems to imply. In any case, I want to test it out in zergs and hopefully have a meaningful alternative to the 2 meta warrior builds (DPS SpB is effectively Burstzerker in game play and shout breaker is a bubble bot, while core Phalanx only works vs clouds). Perhaps a meaningful alternative to dps guardians. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Yeah I can def see that. But since I don't PvE much if at all, I'll leave that side of improvement to others. Speaking from a WvW perspective, I do wonder if they would change bulletproof barrier to a projectile block instead of destruction so it can make use of shield master and become a wall of reflection. Perhaps that could be a good alternative to discipline since (maybe) this spec won't rely to it as much as thought. We shall see. 

Didn't Cal call it a block? Maybe I am misremembering.

10 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

In another note, I'd propose for the addition of aegis in the heal skill on cast. Because the timing for it, even when both charges are used, requires time which is more than enough to down you and a single block can save you. Besides the aegis idea already exists in the spec so perhaps they can capitalize a bit more on it, such as the minor protection proc giving aegis on dragon trigger as well to give the incentive to the player to take and attack and keep charging the trigger even if the aegis has already been burned through. 

Aegis on initial heal cast. I think Trigger guard may instead need to become a 3/4s evade in order to become useful in competitive.

10 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

The game play they show rn is very glassy despite what Cal seems to imply. In any case, I want to test it out in zergs and hopefully have a meaningful alternative to the 2 meta warrior builds (DPS SpB is effectively Burstzerker in game play and shout breaker is a bubble bot, while core Phalanx only works vs clouds). Perhaps a meaningful alternative to dps guardians. 

I'm sure we're going to see dragon slash portal bombs.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Didn't Cal call it a block? Maybe I am misremembering.

Aegis on initial heal cast. I think Trigger guard may instead need to become a 3/4s evade in order to become useful in competitive.

I'm sure we're going to see dragon slash portal bombs.

I would love that lol! In any case I think it's projectile destruction which doesn't synergize with defense, but maybe that is intended..On another note, i'd love to see a 1,200 range attack added to dragon slash reach. I feel like 900 is too low for pirate ship metas. Otherwise we can probably equip longbow or rifle, but we all know how clunky rifle would be withou arms in a zerg situation despite the ammo mechanic and how longbow suffers from slow animations and it's core burst being a projectile. Which is why in my core phalanx I run lonbow for the might blast sharing which is sad..

[Vancho.8750]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Didn't Cal call it a block? Maybe I am misremembering.

Aegis on initial heal cast. I think Trigger guard may instead need to become a 3/4s evade in order to become useful in competitive.

I'm sure we're going to see dragon slash portal bombs.

I think the heal will be better if it worked like Engi A.E.D.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

3 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

I think the heal will be better if it worked like Engi A.E.D.

That's a good take actually

[Smoosh.2718]

I can see some really nice builds running Axe Mastery and pistol (thats 490 fero).
Or slap on burst mastery to gain back 30 Flow on every burst while gaining 7% more damage on the already insanely high damage pushing the base damage to 50,911 in pve before critical hits.

This now begs the question, if you plan to play a Dragonslash focused build, Does the greatsword trait effect it? Will the hammer trait be worth getting for the aditional Flow gained on CC, under the current system you gain 33% adrenalin on a CC.

Since we have not seen these traits as of yet I would believe they have reworked merciless hammer to provide flow regeneration on CC. (if traited, your burst will stun proccing this trait!)

Leg Specialist will play perfectly into the lightning barriers making them proc instantly with an imobo making it the perfect burst setup tool.

I do like what Ive seen, I'm still very salty about no mainhand pistol mind you.

[crewthief.8649]

11 minutes ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

I can see some really nice builds running Axe Mastery and pistol (thats 490 fero).
Or slap on burst mastery to gain back 30 Flow on every burst while gaining 7% more damage on the already insanely high damage pushing the base damage to 50,911 in pve before critical hits.

This now begs the question, if you plan to play a Dragonslash focused build, Does the greatsword trait effect it? Will the hammer trait be worth getting for the aditional Flow gained on CC, under the current system you gain 33% adrenalin on a CC.

Since we have not seen these traits as of yet I would believe they have reworked merciless hammer to provide flow regeneration on CC. (if traited, your burst will stun proccing this trait!)

Leg Specialist will play perfectly into the lightning barriers making them proc instantly with an imobo making it the perfect burst setup tool.

I do like what Ive seen, I'm still very salty about no mainhand pistol mind you.

I’m possibly most excited about all the synergy offered by the spec. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Correction: both Cyclone Trigger and Bulletproof Barrier are actually Projectile Blocks therefore Shield Master will turn them into AoE reflects which Warrior has been lacking (Shattering Blow and Flaming Flurry where the close we ever had to these).

 

That does put a smile on my face and makes this idea even better, but the question now is, if it's worth running DPS and maintaining Discipline but dropping Leg specialist (which procs nicely with electric fense) for Defense, or dropping Discipline and maintaining Tactics for a far less fluid dragon trigger Gunsaber experience at the cost of reflects. Would you still run DPS with that? Or would the Discipline variant be the DPS way to go and someone would prefer tankier gear for a Defense/Tactics mix?

[Smoosh.2718]

5 minutes ago, crewthief.8649 said:

I’m possibly most excited about all the synergy offered by the spec. 

This I agree, the traits and utlities work with the core traits and the core traits work with the new kit and I do like this alot! Its thought out more so than the previous two specs.

[Jzaku.9765]

13 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Correction: both Cyclone Trigger and Bulletproof Barrier are actually Projectile Blocks therefore Shield Master will turn them into AoE reflects which Warrior has been lacking (Shattering Blow and Flaming Flurry where the close we ever had to these).

 

That does put a smile on my face and makes this idea even better, but the question now is, if it's worth running DPS and maintaining Discipline but dropping Leg specialist (which procs nicely with electric fense) for Defense, or dropping Discipline and maintaining Tactics for a far less fluid dragon trigger Gunsaber experience at the cost of reflects. Would you still run DPS with that? Or would the Discipline variant be the DPS way to go and someone would prefer tankier gear for a Defense/Tactics mix?

I can't think of a single example in this game that *actually* blocks projectiles as a field. They probably just mean "destroys projectiles" and the tooltip is wrong. Even then if you want to be a stickler about wording, Shield Master's wording says whenever -YOU- are blocking, not a field you create.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block#Projectile_destruction

 

In fact, we have an example of this already in Winds of Disenchantment on Spellbreaker, which clearly doesn't turn into a reflect when traited. 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Jzaku.9765

[Grand Marshal.4098]

3 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

I can't think of a single example in this game that *actually* blocks projectiles as a field. They probably just mean "destroys projectiles" and the tooltip is wrong. Even then if you want to be a stickler about wording, Shield Master's wording says whenever -YOU- are blocking, not a field you create.

That was my initial thought, but I wasn't sure if the tooltips said Projectile Destruction or not. It will be nice if it functions with SHield Master. If it doesn't we should recommend it. At the cost of a whole line you turn this utility into a reflect. Doesn't sound all that bad to me tbh. Even the raw block is going to be of use. The reflects in wvw are used afterall for defense purposes not for offensive ones, as range spikes are usually not projectile based.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Smoosh.2718]

19 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

I can't think of a single example in this game that *actually* blocks projectiles as a field. They probably just mean "destroys projectiles" and the tooltip is wrong. Even then if you want to be a stickler about wording, Shield Master's wording says whenever -YOU- are blocking, not a field you create.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sanctuary

 

There are a few more skills I can list, this change was made a while back to allow Unblockables to go through them, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Winds_of_Disenchantment

This used to destroy now blocks.

So in theory you can slam shield master down to reflect instead of block (and gain useless might in the process)

As for what you are stating, they updated the tool tips and the patch notes but I believe you may be right in that they did not actually update the game part, still destroys the projectile rather than blocks it.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Smoosh.2718

[Vancho.8750]

 

53 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

I can't think of a single example in this game that *actually* blocks projectiles as a field. They probably just mean "destroys projectiles" and the tooltip is wrong. Even then if you want to be a stickler about wording, Shield Master's wording says whenever -YOU- are blocking, not a field you create.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block#Projectile_destruction

 

In fact, we have an example of this already in Winds of Disenchantment on Spellbreaker, which clearly doesn't turn into a reflect when traited. 

The Firebrand dome reflects projectiles https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chapter_3:_Valiant_Bulwark .
And yes the trait suggests it only affects the warrior, but the thing is if it is like that WoD should have reflected missiles when it was self channel skill. It is funny that there are skills that are supposedly the same but work differently on the backend.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

13 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

 

The Firebrand dome reflects projectiles https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chapter_3:_Valiant_Bulwark .
And yes the trait suggests it only affects the warrior, but the thing is if it is like that WoD should have reflected missiles when it was self channel skill. It is funny that there are skills that are supposedly the same but work differently on the backend.

What it is is that they changed it so that unblockables can go through, since it is a projectile block, but 'on-block' effects still do not activate.

 

So, where ever it says 'Blocks Projectiles/Missiles' it will not reflect the attack if you have shield mastery up or trigger any on block effects (like from runes). It's a little confusing, but the intent is explicitly to keep WoD from reflecting, and I suspect that Electric Fence Bulletproof Barrier will behave similarly.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[Grand Marshal.4098]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

What it is is that they changed it so that unblockables can go through, since it is a projectile block, but 'on-block' effects still do not activate.

 

So, where ever it says 'Blocks Projectiles/Missiles' it will not reflect the attack if you have shield mastery up or trigger any on block effects (like from runes). It's a little confusing, but the intent is explicitly to keep WoD from reflecting, and I suspect that Electric Fence will behave similarly.

Well then, they should make Bulletproof Barrier baseline reflect. But I suppose they would never do that on a 2 ammo skill with the ability to have it used 3 times with the Elite. In any case, it will still be useful I suppose.

[Vancho.8750]

4 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

What it is is that they changed it so that unblockables can go through, since it is a projectile block, but 'on-block' effects still do not activate.

 

So, where ever it says 'Blocks Projectiles/Missiles' it will not reflect the attack if you have shield mastery up or trigger any on block effects (like from runes). It's a little confusing, but the intent is explicitly to keep WoD from reflecting, and I suspect that Electric Fence will behave similarly.

Eh, the warrior no fun allowed region, only the cool kids get fancy WvW skills. I know , I know WoD is OP as kitten but the cool kids get to play with the left side of the UI bar.

[Lonecap.4105]

I think trigger should grant daze immunity tbh, otherwise it’s too easy to shut down

[BlackTruth.6813]

5 minutes ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

I think trigger should grant daze immunity tbh, otherwise it’s too easy to shut down

Or 3 seconds dragon trigger channel is good enough damage, or like there's a reason to fire off immediately i dunno but we'll see in tuesday. I just wanna test the traits out already

Edited September 18, 2021 by BlackTruth.6813