Turn OH pistol into MH pistol and what about condi cleanse?

[Ferus.3165]

Before i say anything else, i have to say that i liked the preview we got on friday. I am really looking forward to try this spec out when we get the chance next week. And before we actually get to play it most complains are probably pretty invalid regarding if something is good or bad and that could very well be true for my concerns about the spec:

 

 

My biggest concern is regarding the offhand pistol. I really like the two skills we get and pistol 5 synergises pretty well with the master trait line BUT i dislike the fact that it is another offhand. We already have 4 different OH weapons that are usefull (only sword offhand is in very dire need of a rework but that is another topic) and bring something else to the table. So we don't need another OH weapon. If the pistol was made a mainhand weapon that would open up a lot more build options, because the offhand weapons have imo far better defined strenghts and weaknesses.

Also because the pistol doesn't need a new f1 skill and the two skills it has right now could simply be the new skill 2 and skill 3. The only skill that would have to be added would be a autoattack and pistol would fill a big gap that has plagued warrior since a long time and that is the ability to poke from range.

A 900 range autoattack similiar to harbinger to deal a little bit of dmg if the enemy gets out of melee range or we use the new stunbreak/back evade utility for example.

Pistol/shield, pistol/mace, pistol/warhorn and pistol/axe all sound really good. It does not have to be huge damage, just something in the league of sword autoattack regarding damage for example.

 

 

This could also maybe already solve another problem is see with the new spec and that is the new spec has 0 condi cleanse or mitigation. Now that the boon resistance has been made so much weaker why not give the new spec some more uptime for it. E.g. i think the gunsaber 5 skill (the mobility skill with 40 sec cd) could really use a few seconds of resistance (and also for the reason that we are not forced into discipline again because we have no other way of cleansing the immob condition reliably) This of course may not even be necessary if we get pistol MH because we would have access to range and potentially access to warhorn aswell. The resolution boon should also be a more common thing for warrior imo. The two skills a think could use it are the new stunbreak and the pistol 4 skill. Pistol 4 already does grant aegis for a very short time, but with so many attacks being multi hits (and protection is already covered by one of the minor traits) it would make sense to give warrior something to survive against condis as well.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Ferus.3165

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

23 hours ago, Ferus.3165 said:

Before i say anything else, i have to say that i liked the preview we got on friday. I am really looking forward to try this spec out when we get the chance next week. And before we actually get to play it most complains are probably pretty invalid regarding if something is good or bad and that could very well be true for my concerns about the spec:

 

 

My biggest concern is regarding the offhand pistol. I really like the two skills we get and pistol 5 synergises pretty well with the master trait line BUT i dislike the fact that it is another offhand. We already have 4 different OH weapons that are usefull (only sword offhand is in very dire need of a rework but that is another topic) and bring something else to the table. So we don't need another OH weapon. If the pistol was made a mainhand weapon that would open up a lot more build options, because the offhand weapons have imo far better defined strenghts and weaknesses.

Also because the pistol doesn't need a new f1 skill and the two skills it has right now could simply be the new skill 2 and skill 3. The only skill that would have to be added would be a autoattack and pistol would fill a big gap that has plagued warrior since a long time and that is the ability to poke from range.

A 900 range autoattack similiar to harbinger to deal a little bit of dmg if the enemy gets out of melee range or we use the new stunbreak/back evade utility for example.

Pistol/shield, pistol/mace, pistol/warhorn and pistol/axe all sound really good. It does not have to be huge damage, just something in the league of sword autoattack regarding damage for example.

 

 

This could also maybe already solve another problem is see with the new spec and that is the new spec has 0 condi cleanse or mitigation. Now that the boon resistance has been made so much weaker why not give the new spec some more uptime for it. E.g. i think the gunsaber 5 skill (the mobility skill with 40 sec cd) could really use a few seconds of resistance (and also for the reason that we are not forced into discipline again because we have no other way of cleansing the immob condition reliably) This of course may not even be necessary if we get pistol MH because we would have access to range and potentially access to warhorn aswell. The resolution boon should also be a more common thing for warrior imo. The two skills a think could use it are the new stunbreak and the pistol 4 skill. Pistol 4 already does grant aegis for a very short time, but with so many attacks being multi hits (and protection is already covered by one of the minor traits) it would make sense to give warrior something to survive against condis as well.

 

 

I agree, I would much prefer MH pistol. I worry that, since shield is almost necessary in PvP/WvW roaming situations, pistol will be left unused. But we will see on Tuesday.

 

Not sure about all the condi cleanse part of the post, but resistance on the rocket boots skill does sound like a good idea, or just allow it to remove immob.

[Dakiaris.2798]

Here's a thought why not just give us main and offhand pistol.... What happened to "warriors are master of arms and it wouldn't make sense giving them only 1 weapon" like they said with daggers.

 

Honestly not ever getting access to dual wield pistol is going to kitten a lot of people off myself included.

[Angel Hunter D.5037]

I am rather miffed at not getting MH pistol as well. Some people say it'd make the spec to good, but I still want it. 

[Kodama.6453]

4 hours ago, Dakiaris.2798 said:

Here's a thought why not just give us main and offhand pistol.... What happened to "warriors are master of arms and it wouldn't make sense giving them only 1 weapon" like they said with daggers.

 

Honestly not ever getting access to dual wield pistol is going to kitten a lot of people off myself included.

They never said that it wouldn't make sense to give warrior just one weapon, you are enhancing their statement with stuff that was never said.

Spellbreaker was initially planned with just mainhand dagger. They then added offhand dagger as well because "one dagger wasn't quite cool enough", then added the "warriors are weapon masters" just as a justification for why they are willing to make an exception for warrior to get to dual wield a weapon, something no other elite spec was allowed to to that point.

Their statement never was that warrior will always get to dual wield from that point on. And if the reason to add another dagger was "because spellbreaker wasn't quite cool enough", then there is no reason to add mainhand pistol to bladesworn. Because with the gunsaber, a lack of coolness is definitely no concern for that elite spec, lmao.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

You are right OP.

The best offhand weapon for warrior is shield. Second best is warhorn. OH pistol can only take third place but that's if its better than axe offhand which is third best currently. The true weapon of Bladesworn is the gunsabre. The pistol is an add on to that.

I also wanted dual pistols too so that I can play as doomslayer with rifle/pistols but there's no unequipping the gunsabre. No point in standing on that hill any longer for me.

On 9/18/2021 at 10:54 AM, Ferus.3165 said:

give warrior something to survive against condis as well

Our struggle against the condi menace continues. It's like Anet loves to see warriors drown in conditions.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

12 hours ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Our struggle against the condi menace continues. It's like Anet loves to see warriors drown in conditions.

Yeah I was hoping we'd get a boat load of resolution with the new e-spec but nope we still only have 2 ways of getting it (and only one of those we can control). Meanwhile guardians have it coming out of their ears.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

Yeah I was hoping we'd get a boat load of resolution with the new e-spec but nope we still only have 2 ways of getting it (and only one of those we can control). Meanwhile guardians have it coming out of their ears.

We should ask for resolution in addition to protection when hit in Dragon Trigger. Makes sense to me.

[Nezekan.2671]

OH pistol has a very good damage/mobility and it interacts with Bladeworn traits. Such as there is a trait that reduces ALL coolowns by 1 second if you spend all ammo on an ability. Pistol 5 will trigger this constantly. Pistol 4 also grants aegis, something warrior doesn't have on anything really. Sure, its not as defensive as shield, but that's up to you to choose. Pistol definitely stands out and definitely seems better than warhorn if not the shield.  Like its not even close. The only rival to pistol OH is shield. Warhorn will be blown the kitten out by pistol. (for playstyle of bladesworn).

Edited September 20, 2021 by Nezekan.2671

[Angel Hunter D.5037]

Pistol might have a place as an OH. My initial impression is that it would be much less of a "tacked on" feature if it was MH, that seems to be a currently empty design space that would fill much nicer than another OH. As is, it doesn't really look bad but it doesn't seem to shore up the class weaknesses that the more popular picks do. OH seems to be for utility, and Pistol doesn't do that.

[Shprokets.9746]

Let's not forget that we can get a good ammount of barrier every 5 seconds with OH pistol. Just gotta keep using the last ammo while using the correct trait. Quite defensive

[Angel Hunter D.5037]

But we already have defensive options, we don't have a ranged MH weapon.

[Ferus.3165]

11 hours ago, Shprokets.9746 said:

Let's not forget that we can get a good ammount of barrier every 5 seconds with OH pistol. Just gotta keep using the last ammo while using the correct trait. Quite defensive

yes i've tried the spec for a bit now and i really like the pistol the most about this spec. Even though the 800 barrier you get in wvw could be a little bit higher. I don't think the pve version would be too much for wvw really.

 

The spec has a lot of other problems and pistol is not one of them.

[Ferus.3165]

On 9/20/2021 at 8:14 AM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Our struggle against the condi menace continues. It's like Anet loves to see warriors drown in conditions.

 

The thing i don't understand is why haven't skills that grant resistance been majorly buffed? The boon was nerfed into oblivion and skills like berserker stance or the meditation skill from spellbreaker or the spellbreaker grandmaster trait or even healing signet were not touched. How is a 40 sec cd for berserker stance justified.Or 45 sec for the spellbreaker meditation? All the boon does atm is grant you free movement. And as a class that is so dependant on being in melee range like warrior is it doesn't make sense that we have so little access to it and the cds are so overbearingly long.

Either the cds of said skills should be drastically reduced or resolution with a huge duration should be added.

Or if anet wants those skills to rot then why don't we get different sources of those boons? And the new spec would have been a good opportunity for that...

[nopoet.2960]

If it were mh pistol you would be stuck playing pistol/warhorn.  Would anything else really work?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, nopoet.2960 said:

If it were mh pistol you would be stuck playing pistol/warhorn.  Would anything else really work?

Pistol/Shield. Pistol/Axe would be great DPS. Pistol/Mace for some extra AoE CC/vuln. Since the traits give barrier on final ammo usage the need need for a Defensive OH would be offset somewhat. Naturally if they do P/P and its all ammo skills then that would be optimal given how the traits are at the moment.

[Smoosh.2718]

4 hours ago, nopoet.2960 said:

If it were mh pistol you would be stuck playing pistol/warhorn.  Would anything else really work?

Pretty much all of the offhand weapons would work with it.
since your 2nd weapon is the gunblade, having a combo of range and melee on the main weapon can be good.

Pistol + Mace - Allows you to CC from afar, cause vuln and then burst away with your gunblade.
Pistol + Sword - Provides you with a block and a ranged cripple + torment
Pistol + Axe - A real damage monster for range and melee with no defence (the go ham or go home build)
Pistol + warhorn - mobile range support
Pistol + Sield - Defence and a CC for more sustain.
Pistol + Pistol - for maximum class synergy with flow generation.


Honestly... warrior needs a mainhand weapon for this spec (one which you can actually see projectiles on... seriously I made HOPE for this and I cant even see one projectile, super dissapointing!) Warrior has an issue with sustain if they arent using Shield / Warhorn in one handed combos. As Ive stated before this spec came out and even more so now after it came out, it needs a mainhand pistol. Its a weapons master not a weapons novice.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Smoosh.2718

[nopoet.2960]

Ahh ok, I thought the range mismatch would be problematic but maybe I just haven't thought it through.

[Smoosh.2718]

Just now, nopoet.2960 said:

Ahh ok, I thought the range mismatch would be problematic but maybe I just haven't thought it through.

It is not you who hasnt thought it through its Anet who hasnt by providing only half of the weapon.

[Axl.8924]

On 9/20/2021 at 8:14 AM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

You are right OP.

The best offhand weapon for warrior is shield. Second best is warhorn. OH pistol can only take third place but that's if its better than axe offhand which is third best currently. The true weapon of Bladesworn is the gunsabre. The pistol is an add on to that.

I also wanted dual pistols too so that I can play as doomslayer with rifle/pistols but there's no unequipping the gunsabre. No point in standing on that hill any longer for me.

Our struggle against the condi menace continues. It's like Anet loves to see warriors drown in conditions.

Truth be told i don't see any condi cleanses on the spec bladesworn. 

I'm also kinda torn between that since warrs have rifle as ranged, cept the last attack isn't even ranged, it only works in melee range to multi hit. At a distance, rifle 5 does 1 hit.6.

Axe 3 i think it was which hits at ranged? reminds me of axe toss from ranger, since it also throws axes.

Do warrs not have any weapons which really shine at ranged distance vs melee or no?

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

It is not you who hasnt thought it through its Anet who hasnt by providing only half of the weapon.

I think they actually thought this through....

The elite spec already comes with a package of 10 new skills for the elite spec mechanic (5 skills from gunsaber + 5 skills from dragon trigger). So if there is a time to not give warrior a dual wield weapon, it is now with this spec providing alot of other skills through the mechanic.

Also it is not half a weapon... it is an offhand weapon choice. Saying this is "just providing half the weapon" would also say that weaver and holosmith just got half a weapon for their elite specs, which isn't a fair statement either.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Smoosh.2718]

1 hour ago, Axl.8924 said:

Do warrs not have any weapons which really shine at ranged distance vs melee or no?

Its a shame that the warriors specs have all been designed in the same Unga Bunga way, everything is now apparently melee for no reason other than some strange design decision to really limit the class, you now smack things with your guns rather than shoot them like a human with a brain would, It is almost as if Anet believes the warrior class should have such a small brain, that they forget how a trigger works so you just end up smacking things.

Warrior 👏Needs 👏A 👏Ranged 👏 1 Handed 👏Weapon 👏 (mainhand!)

[Smoosh.2718]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I think they actually thought this through....

The elite spec already comes with a package of 10 new skills for the elite spec mechanic (5 skills from gunsaber + 5 skills from dragon trigger). So if there is a time to not give warrior a dual wield weapon, it is now with this spec providing alot of other skills through the mechanic.

If they flip the weapon to be mainhand instead of offhand, thats 1 extra skill totalling 19 new skills including utilites, nothing too crazy, ele is gaining 27 new skills and rev is gaining 15 skills (each utility counts as 2 due to the flip over mechanic). Do bear in mind warrior is losing access to 5 skills they normally would have access to on normal warrior, so in many ways this would balance the books.

[Axl.8924]

11 minutes ago, Smoosh.2718 said:

Its a shame that the warriors specs have all been designed in the same Unga Bunga way, everything is now apparently melee for no reason other than some strange design decision to really limit the class, you now smack things with your guns rather than shoot them like a human with a brain would, It is almost as if Anet believes the warrior class should have such a small brain, that they forget how a trigger works so you just end up smacking things.

Warrior 👏Needs 👏A 👏Ranged 👏 1 Handed 👏Weapon 👏 (mainhand!)

One thing that kinda weird s me out is thatthey didn't make bladesworn more like holo sure it has mobility a few but it feels kinda weird and clunky and by the looks of it when holo came out it looks like it was quite strong in mobility department.

[Kodama.6453]

Just now, Smoosh.2718 said:

If they flip the weapon to be mainhand instead of offhand, thats 1 extra skill totalling 19 new skills including utilites, nothing too crazy, ele is gaining 27 new skills and rev is gaining 15 skills (each utility counts as 2 due to the flip over mechanic). Do bear in mind warrior is losing access to 5 skills they normally would have access to on normal warrior, so in many ways this would balance the books.

Sure, this doesn't change much. I am just saying I don't think that anet will do it at that point anymore. They advertised the elite spec with an offhand pistol already, changing this up to a mainhand weapon seems weird. I think it is too late for such a change, they will stick to what they have and just tweak stuff here and there, but not making as massive fundamental changes as making the offhand pistol a mainhand one.

I just think this is not realistic.