Nerf Necromancer

[Psycoprophet.8107]

3 minutes ago, greedywholesome.9081 said:

 

Devs prolly out fishing. If they read and took our OP's suggestion, I guarantee, pvp population will rise, even if only temporarily. 

 

Its not toxicity that's killing the mode, it's the crappy meta!

The meta being as gbage as it is currently is today definitely adds to the toxicity, the meta is actually frustrating to play in these days as it honestly feels like any semblance of balancing has just been abandoned.

[greedywholesome.9081]

2 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

The meta being as gbage as it is currently is today definitely adds to the toxicity, the meta is actually frustrating to play in these days as it honestly feels like any semblance of balancing has just been abandoned.

 

Oh totally. Anyone with a triple digit IQ will recognize the pattern. I admire the OP and you and everyone on this thread supporting him. I multi class and can play all necro specs proficiently but only choose to play Reaper. 

 

Nerf Necro Pls. I can play it but choose not to. The synergy between traits, amulets, random runes you fancy, sigils is above and beyond any other class can have access to. It's too perfect and it's literally killing the mode. 

 

Yes, I can kill an MM but it consumes so much time and effort that if the opposing team have 2, we are literally screwed. Not enjoyable. 

[Spellhunter.9675]

1 hour ago, crewthief.8649 said:

He used actual data to quantify his comparison of Necro mobility to Mirage mobility. Nothing stupid about using data. What are you using to quantify your position that the comparison is stupid?

Try to outrotate something with this "mobility" on necro.

Btw, on paper mesmer has 40000 units of blink per minute. Nerf mesmer.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Spellhunter.9675

[greedywholesome.9081]

As an entrepreneur, if I were the devs, I'd message the OP ASAP. 

I'm semi-retired, young and dont need to work if I dont feel like it but since Im greedy yet wholesome, making money is second nature. 

OK, kitten self promotion aside, devs, pls at the very least, PLEASE, recognize the OP's guidelines. 

I wear Ferragamo loafers IRL. When I drive my 911 Turbo, I wear my Tod's driving shoes. 

Bottom line is I dont kitten around. Fix this mess devs. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by greedywholesome.9081

[crewthief.8649]

35 minutes ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Try to outrotate something with this "mobility" on necro.

Btw, on paper mesmer has 40000 units of blink per minute. Nerf mesmer.

Your argument is with the OP, not me. I didn’t compile his data, he did. 

[Exile.8160]

4 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

The meta being as gbage as it is currently is today definitely adds to the toxicity, the meta is actually frustrating to play in these days as it honestly feels like any semblance of balancing has just been abandoned.

 

Worst part of it is, this is the most the game has been balance since the feb patch.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

9 minutes ago, Exile.8160 said:

 

Worst part of it is, this is the most the game has been balance since the feb patch.

Well a lot of us long time players tried to warn during the preview that it was going to be a disaster. A lot of players had blinders on because the promise of at least Change.

They should have just dealt with the hand full of classes separately that we're outliers pre Feb patch.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

20 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Try to outrotate something with this "mobility" on necro.

Btw, on paper mesmer has 40000 units of blink per minute. Nerf mesmer.

Why would u out rotate anything on necro or scourge? Camp a node, ur almost unkillable unless outnumbered, or use necros broken op potential in team fights. 

Lastly let's not pretend any of of the conquest maps are actually large lol, u may get to a node 2-3 secs later than a teef oh my....

Edited September 21, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

23 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

TLDR

1.  Delete minionmancer.  Start by nerfing Necromantic Corruption's transfer interval by 60-70% and moving on from there. 

2.  Remove shroud's damage reduction, which will merely put them on the same ground as everyone else who had 30-50% damage nerfs across the board from Megabalance.

3.  Hit either Spectral Walk, Flesh Wurm, or both hard enough to the point where they maybe only take one of those in their build, as they are too defensively mobile right now for being both the best team fight carry and the tankiest class in the game.

Agreed. I think it would be obvious that if you reduce damage across the board, that you'd adjust the damage reduction on classes that still retained it (or at least monitor this closely for adjustment in the future.). Things like this are what make the megabalance direction feel unfinished. 

The minionmancer and mobility pairing just exacerbate the issue. I wouldn't hit mobility on the same pass that I hit the damage reduction, but they would be top of the list if there were still an excessive amount of necros running about afterward. 

[mortrialus.3062]

7 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

You seem new to the forum despite your 1000 posts. Otherwise you would have noticed the countless nerfs to necro sustain skills

from signets (undeath signet LF generation cut in half, heal signet got a nerf rework)

to blood magic traits (life force generation and healing cut in half)

to spectral cooldowns (20% increase)

to death magic traits (toughness cut in half)

to weakness uptime (weakness duration cut in half)

to boon corruption (cut in half).

The sustain is a lot lower than pre damage patch.

And speaking about 4 necros in every matchup like some people state: these are either bots (which run minion master since 2012) or scenarios where you of course pick reaper to counter minion master (one minion master in each team leads to one reaper in each team) as reaper has the best aoe. But you don't pick reaper because it is overpowered.

Nice reality denial in this thread!

Maybe start understanding the game before you talk about nerfs?

And necro remains absolutely dominant, is clogging up ranked with tons of games having 40-60% necro representation, and minionmancer, a build both the developers and players agreed should not be allowed to be good in PvP, won the MAT and was on both teams because that's how dominant it is.

It's the shroud damage reduction, it's been the shroud damage reduction the entire time since megabalance, and it will always be a problem as long as everyone else is stuck with the 30-50% damage nerf from megabalance.

Edited September 20, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[mortrialus.3062]

6 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Try to outrotate something with this "mobility" on necro.

Btw, on paper mesmer has 40000 units of blink per minute. Nerf mesmer.

I specifically pointed out necro mobility is defensive mobility, allowing them to recklessly dive into team fights with zero regard for positioning and the second they are targeted blink out and then dive immediately back into the fight. 

There's no reason the single biggest threat in team fights and also the single tankiest thing in the game should be this defensively mobile. Necros are not thieves, with their 11k health and their generally mediocre damage. Necros are the class that by design if not addressed immediately during the team fight will wipe the entire team and run around with nearly 60k effective health.

Necro has not always depended on double port and there have been multiple metas where they haven't run it.  They have tons of excellent utilities like spectral ring, spectral armor, corrupt boon, well of corruption, corrosive poison cloud, well of darkness.  They do not need double port and they've thrived before without it. 

Also funny how you hint at Mesmer Portal, which hasn't been viable since it's nerf and is no longer run at all, while double port on necro is meta right now and is being run in equal parts alongside minionmancer.

Edited September 20, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Disney.7826]

6 hours ago, crewthief.8649 said:

There are so many situations where a Necro escapes certain death (to literally any other class in the game) and I’m left just sitting there shaking my head. You can see these Minionmancers, tanking two players on node, keyboard turning in the middle of their minions. So ridiculous…

all utilities necros use are god tier

[Exile.8160]

3 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

I specifically pointed out necro mobility is defensive mobility, allowing them to recklessly dive into team fights with zero regard for positioning and the second they are targeted blink out and then dive immediately back into the fight. 

There's no reason the single biggest threat in team fights and also the single tankiest thing in the game should be this defensively mobile. Necros are not thieves, with their 11k health and their generally mediocre damage. Necros are the class that by design if not addressed immediately during the team fight will wipe the entire team and run around with nearly 60k effective health.

Necro has not always depended on double port and there have been multiple metas where they haven't run it.  They have tons of excellent utilities like spectral ring, spectral armor, corrupt boon, well of corruption, corrosive poison cloud, well of darkness.  They do not need double port and they've thrived before without it. 

Also funny how you hint at Mesmer Portal, which hasn't been viable since it's nerf and is no longer run at all, while double port on necro is meta right now and is being run in equal parts alongside minionmancer.

 

My question is why has this been left alone for all this time when some other classes dare to be half of what necro is now  and get deleted by nerfs. While necro get slaps to wrist nerfs.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Exile.8160

[crewthief.8649]

5 minutes ago, Exile.8160 said:

 

My question is why has this been left alone for all this time when some other classes dare to half what necro is now  and get deleted by nerfs. While necro get slaps to wrist nerfs.

Honestly, that’s a question I’ve asked as well. It’s kind of maddening.

[Touchme.1097]

I said it before, Necromancer is overtuned in PvP, but all my feedbacks seem to fall on def ears. I hope Anet will decide soon to invest in their balance team...

[Albert.3574]

was remeber 4necro lose to 2necro in AT final game . cause they dont know necro just tank and slow roation cant stack too much 

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Well see your suggestions in action in like 3 years at least. Lolz

[Zhaif.6421]

3 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

I specifically pointed out necro mobility is defensive mobility, allowing them to recklessly dive into team fights with zero regard for positioning and the second they are targeted blink out and then dive immediately back into the fight. 

There's no reason the single biggest threat in team fights and also the single tankiest thing in the game should be this defensively mobile. Necros are not thieves, with their 11k health and their generally mediocre damage. Necros are the class that by design if not addressed immediately during the team fight will wipe the entire team and run around with nearly 60k effective health.

Necro has not always depended on double port and there have been multiple metas where they haven't run it.  They have tons of excellent utilities like spectral ring, spectral armor, corrupt boon, well of corruption, corrosive poison cloud, well of darkness.  They do not need double port and they've thrived before without it. 

Also funny how you hint at Mesmer Portal, which hasn't been viable since it's nerf and is no longer run at all, while double port on necro is meta right now and is being run in equal parts alongside minionmancer.

If a necro is diving into fights like that just to waste their only stunbreaks, they are bad necros and you should be able to kill them fairly easily if you use your own cooldowns wisely. 

 

Also there's a hugely obvious difference between mesmer portal and necro wurm. Mesmer portal can move their entire team. Necro wurm only moves themselves, and is subject to noport spots. 

[mortrialus.3062]

31 minutes ago, Testudo.4620 said:

If a necro is diving into fights like that just to waste their only stunbreaks, they are bad necros and you should be able to kill them fairly easily if you use your own cooldowns wisely. 

 

Also there's a hugely obvious difference between mesmer portal and necro wurm. Mesmer portal can move their entire team. Necro wurm only moves themselves, and is subject to noport spots. 

The more obvious difference is one of these is good and is still being run on a meta level and the other hasn't been touched in years since its nerf.  Like imagine looking at the state of balance, imagine looking at minionmancer winning MATs alongside a double port reaper, ranked being clogged with games that are 40%-60% necromancer.  And then going "But, but, but, Mesmer portal!" as if Mesmer portal has any relevance to the state of balance right now or is even seeing any use whatsoever. 

There's no reason the single biggest threat in the team fight as well as the tankiest class in the game should be on a meta level this mobile.  And they've been meta in the past without a single port, which minionmancer is now another example of.

It's also not wasting their cooldown if it saves them and puts 1200 units between you and them. 

This is post megabalance.  There's no such thing as an easy to kill necro without them being completely asleep at the wheel.

Edited September 21, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Zhaif.6421]

3 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

The more obvious difference is one of these is good and is still being run on a meta level and the other hasn't been touched in years since its nerf.  Like imagine looking at the state of balance, imagine looking at minionmancer winning MATs alongside a double port reaper, ranked being clogged with games that are 40%-60% necromancer.  And then going "But, but, but, Mesmer portal!" as if Mesmer portal has any relevance to the state of balance right now or is even seeing any use whatsoever. 

There's no reason the single biggest threat in the team fight as well as the tankiest class in the game should be on a meta level this mobile.  And they've been meta in the past without a single port, which minionmancer is now another example of.

It's also not wasting their cooldown if it saves them and puts 1200 units between you and them. 

This is post megabalance.  There's no such thing as an easy to kill necro without them being completely asleep at the wheel.

If a necro is using its wurm to get across the map, that just makes it easier to focus down. You just have to know what you're doing. If reaper is an issue for your team, that's the fault of your team. 

[mortrialus.3062]

20 minutes ago, Testudo.4620 said:

If a necro is using its wurm to get across the map, that just makes it easier to focus down. You just have to know what you're doing. If reaper is an issue for your team, that's the fault of your team. 

Did I say anything about a necro using Wurm to get around the map? 

[Spellhunter.9675]

10 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

I specifically pointed out necro mobility is defensive mobility, allowing them to recklessly dive into team fights with zero regard for positioning and the second they are targeted blink out and then dive immediately back into the fight. 

There's no reason the single biggest threat in team fights and also the single tankiest thing in the game should be this defensively mobile. Necros are not thieves, with their 11k health and their generally mediocre damage. Necros are the class that by design if not addressed immediately during the team fight will wipe the entire team and run around with nearly 60k effective health.

Necro has not always depended on double port and there have been multiple metas where they haven't run it.  They have tons of excellent utilities like spectral ring, spectral armor, corrupt boon, well of corruption, corrosive poison cloud, well of darkness.  They do not need double port and they've thrived before without it. 

Also funny how you hint at Mesmer Portal, which hasn't been viable since it's nerf and is no longer run at all, while double port on necro is meta right now and is being run in equal parts alongside minionmancer.

I want to be clear. I agree necro as class is overtuned now in PvP and deserve a nerf. But I don't know how to fix it properly to not completely kill the class.

But what I don't like in this thread is you are trying to look smart with this "units of blink per minute" data and stuff (and my point with mes portal was about showing that raw numbers don't have straight correlation with in-game value). While you are actually don't understand what is the problem with necro and how to properlly fix it. All you did here is typical "cry for nerf" topic but with different cover, IMO.

[Kuma.1503]

I don't know why shroud didn't get a 33% shave like every other form of sustain. 

Yes, it's theit rmain proffesion mechanic, but that didn't stop them from reducing scrapper's barrier mechanic by 33% in PvP.

Or from increasing the cooldown on Celestial Avatar by more than double. 

Or from literally removing a dodge from Mesmer. 

 

Necro's overtuned compared to everyone else because their main sustain mechanic has not recieved the same treatment as everyone elses. Either reduce shroud's damage reduction in PvP or shave their life force generation by 1/3. 

 

Normally I'm not even the type of person to ask for nerfs, but It's been 1.5 years now of Necro dominant meta. I'm tired of seeing 4+ of this class in every match. I'd kill for a change of pace. 

 

Alternatively, they could revrert the game to back before the Feb Patch, but that's wishful thinking at this point. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Kuma.1503

[KrHome.1920]

Where is the 33% leap and teleport range reduction? I must have missed it. Leaps and teleports are the main source of anti necro sustain.

[mortrialus.3062]

32 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Where is the 33% leap and teleport range reduction? I must have missed it. Leaps and teleports are the main source of anti necro sustain.

Mesmer Blink, Signet of Midnight, Decoy, Phase Retreat, and Mass Invisibility all got cooldown increases with Megabalance.