For the love of Melandru please make staff a viable option

[ROMANG.1903]

I am making this post from a PvE, DPS point of view.

Staff Elementalist is the perfect answer to those who seek the archetype of a classic mage in Guild Wars 2. But... It's virtually useless except for tagging mobs in farming squads.
I remember back in the ancient times, with the old talent system, there was a trait that increased the area of all our staff skills. I never took it, because that meant Meteor Shower would have more chances of missing the target... And this trait, if memory serves, has been made baseline. Which I liked for most weapons, except it did kinda ruin Meteor Shower. I've heard that for a time, staff was actually pretty great, unfortunately I did not experience that, as I was on a break at the time. I've tried Core, Tempest and Weaver with staff. The later definitely has the most interesting rotation of the bunch, but it's still very underwhelming in terms of performance compared to Sword/Dagger.

All that just to say, staff needs a buff. One easy, substantial buff (besides just changing the numbers) would be to make Meteor Shower more narrow so that it has more chances to hit the main target.

[Knuckle Joe.7408]

The problem with meteor it's not that it is wide, it's that they nerfed it so each subsequent hit's damage of a single target is decreased. Back on the day it was awesome, it WAS the nuke of the game, and said nuke was at the hands of the squishiest, most vulnerable class (11k HP with berserker's). Also you could cast lava fonts back to back for constant DPS.

 

But they nerfed it because people QQed ele was doing too much damage and because anet bases their nerfs on stationary golem numbers.

 

Now, with the numbers we are seeing in ridiculous kitten like dragon trigger and firebrand, i don't see why they can't bring it back.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Knuckle Joe.7408

[lLobo.7960]

It could be a good dps option with Catalyst, depending if hammer has better numbers or not.

Fire/Air/Cat with fresh-air, persisting flames, longer sphere booms.

Fresh air lets you always go back to air for quickness topup, while persisting flames gives you bonus dmg for fire fields (fire sphere). Now add the Elite and water augments and you can potentially get powered up meteorshowers.

Combine staff fields and finishers, with catalyst sphere+lightening hammer+gliph of storms+shatering ice augument+elite augment for CD reduction.... Thats one nice combo for PvE dps with added group might and quickness.

Lets say, start

1. in earth: cast magnetic aura (for aura dmg buff) and eruption (for blast), 
2. swap to air for quickness placing the F5 sphere over eruption for a combo, which gives you aura (more aura dmg buff),
3. swap to water for another blast (water#2) and another aura,
4. straight back to air for FA buff and more quickness,
5. go to fire (another aura), lava font+F5+Meteor shower with double strike from augument+pull lightening hammer (another aura from conjurer) and get another combo (auto-attack) for more auras (auras on combo). With the elite augument and all the hits from fields, meteors, attacks, your meteor shower should be ready for a second cast. Cast lava font and metor shower again before going
6. back to air for more quickness and sigil of storms, grab the second  LH for more blasts and auras before starting over.

That's 5 Auras before your first Meteor shower, so 10% dmg from Catalyst aura trait... And its also 8% to all stats going to 10% when you get into air again and grab the second LH.

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by lLobo.7960
idea for rotation

[BlackBeard.2873]

Best Anet will do for you is a 10% after cast reduction on air 4 in staff, so you can hit exactly nothing, just quicker. Thanks for your input, enjoy the big upgrades!

More seriously, I think staff will synergize better with staff than any other weapon, its just a shame staff is so clunky. In many other places, having some kind of summoning circle is common, and the f5 functions a lot like that. Conceptually, that is kind of cool. I think staff also benefits from quickness more than most other weapons due to its slow speed. However, staff doesn't have a lot of reason to spend a lot of time in air to build up swiftness.

Instead, one of the GM should make quickness apply in every attunement, allowing you some really interesting play.

[lLobo.7960]

8 minutes ago, BlackBeard.2873 said:

However, staff doesn't have a lot of reason to spend a lot of time in air to build up swiftness.

You don't need to stay in Air casting air spells.

You can use conjures (FGS or LH for damage), you can cast spells from other attunements with long cast-times (meteor shower) and swap to air (FA is specially useful there) to get the quickness going.

Edited September 20, 2021 by lLobo.7960

[BlackBeard.2873]

11 minutes ago, lLobo.7960 said:

You don't need to stay in Air casting air spells.

You can use conjures (FGS or LH for damage), you can cast spells from other attunements with long cast-times (meteor shower) and swap to air (FA is specially useful there) to get the quickness going.

Yes, you can use conjures, but not while also practicing ranged combat. I also could use a long channel, bit the precise reason I want quickness is for those channels, so I need to build it up ahead of time. Perhaps you can proc it mid cast, but the point still stands - I finish my meteor shower cast and have built up.4s of quickness, that won't last me very long for the 10s after I leave air and doesn't do as much while locked out of fire. 

[Emberheart.8426]

I do think that staff needs a bit of a rework. Water is actually a pretty good attunement for use in support builds. However, every other attunement needs a bit of love. Air is definitely the worst attunement of the weapon, and it needs a couple of ability reworks so that it can actually do good power damage, like air is supposed to do on all weapons. This also reduces the huge conjure reliance of dps builds. 

I think earth is pretty decent overall, but maybe it needs a bit more condi there, to enable condi playstyles and hybrid playstyles. Likewise, fire needs burning on lava font, and flame burst reworked into a proper skill. Some will disagree that staff needs more access to condi and I used to be one of the proponents of a pure power approach to staff. However, it is obvious that the hybrid approach is becoming better and better as time goes on, especially on catalyst. If staff doesn't have better condi options it will greatly restrict build diversity and the weapon will stick out like a sore thumb.

 

Of course some cast and aftercast times could have a look at too.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Ganathar.4956

[ROMANG.1903]

6 hours ago, lLobo.7960 said:

You don't need to stay in Air casting air spells.

You can use conjures (FGS or LH for damage), you can cast spells from other attunements with long cast-times (meteor shower) and swap to air (FA is specially useful there) to get the quickness going.

That would be nice if only they reworked conjured weapons to work more like kits. Currently they are really clunky to use, with a limitted time and a second "charge" that can be taken by an ally and disappears after a while. Elementalist could be so fluid and fun if they just worked like engineer's kits...

[moony.5780]

10 minutes ago, ROMANG.1903 said:

That would be nice if only they reworked conjured weapons to work more like kits. Currently they are really clunky to use, with a limitted time and a second "charge" that can be taken by an ally and disappears after a while. Elementalist could be so fluid and fun if they just worked like engineer's kits...

Agree....

 

Also in open world...after 30 sec I'm already far away from the place where my hammer is waiting for me...

[Tarragon.4302]

I'd love to see staff reworked to a low mobility high dps class sorta like the black mage in ff14 instead of this class thats trying to always be a catch all role, which doesnt even work since cele was nerfed and the most optimal dps is to min max power and crit builds. I'd personally like to see meteor reworked to just one massive meteor instead of relying on rng, its always kinda felt bad to use for the cast time just for people to walk out of it and if they do get hit its barely the same damage as rev hammer 2 which is a 4 second cd instant cast. on top of meteor seeing most of the utility skills aside from the cc fields changed would be nice, i dont think we really need the healing on water given that tempest is with dagger warhorn is much better at healing. 
 

i've been playing this game long enough so I doubt though we'll see this happen for a long while since anet doesnt make changes quickly. Like the amount of time it took to address the issues in wvw is insane and we're only just now getting alliances which were promised i thought back when HoT was announced but maybe it was PoF

[draxynnic.3719]

23 hours ago, BlackBeard.2873 said:

Yes, you can use conjures, but not while also practicing ranged combat. I also could use a long channel, bit the precise reason I want quickness is for those channels, so I need to build it up ahead of time. Perhaps you can proc it mid cast, but the point still stands - I finish my meteor shower cast and have built up.4s of quickness, that won't last me very long for the 10s after I leave air and doesn't do as much while locked out of fire. 

Pretty much this. If you're in lightning hammer range anyway, why not run dagger instead which does have decent air skills without needing a conjure? If the only reason you're running staff is to drop big meteor showers, could you just run the same combo finishing with a Glyph of Storms instead? Or the Lightning Hammer storm if you're carrying it anyway?

 

Staff being too reliant on fire for damage was ultimately the problem - when the fire staff skills were nerfed, there was nothing to fall back on. Like @Ganathar.4956 says, staff air really needs a solid rework so it can actually do damage. Possibly staff earth as well, but air is the one that's really laughable right now.

[moony.5780]

36 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Staff being too reliant on fire for damage was ultimately the problem - when the fire staff skills were nerfed, there was nothing to fall back on. Like @Ganathar.4956 says, staff air really needs a solid rework so it can actually do damage. Possibly staff earth as well, but air is the one that's really laughable right now.

Air staff is one of my favorite....but compared to other air weapon laughably weak... 😕

[Razor.6392]

Not even Melandru with Dwayna and Lyssa fused are going to change ANet's vision on Staff.

[HowlKamui.5120]

Oh look, this thread again. AND I AGREE.

[Sir Alric.5078]

On 9/20/2021 at 1:00 AM, Knuckle Joe.7408 said:

The problem with meteor it's not that it is wide, it's that they nerfed it so each subsequent hit's damage of a single target is decreased. Back on the day it was awesome, it WAS the nuke of the game, and said nuke was at the hands of the squishiest, most vulnerable class (11k HP with berserker's). Also you could cast lava fonts back to back for constant DPS.

 

But they nerfed it because people QQed ele was doing too much damage and because anet bases their nerfs on stationary golem numbers.

 

Now, with the numbers we are seeing in ridiculous kitten like dragon trigger and firebrand, i don't see why they can't bring it back.

 

 

Agreed. Anet should either reverse the nerf and bring back the old meteor or reduce the casting time of the spell, or maybe make it so that you can cast it while moving. 

[dtox.8397]

After all this time, all those threads, i actually think Anet will do something about Staff. Tho im afraid it will come only with EoD, being way too late. There is way to much going on in the MMO community (new MMOS and new stuff on the old ones), and by the time EoD releases i dont think i will be playing GW2 anymore. Its a shame.

Edited September 22, 2021 by dtox.8397

[Westenev.5289]

On 9/20/2021 at 11:00 AM, Knuckle Joe.7408 said:

The problem with meteor it's not that it is wide, it's that they nerfed it so each subsequent hit's damage of a single target is decreased. Back on the day it was awesome, it WAS the nuke of the game, and said nuke was at the hands of the squishiest, most vulnerable class (11k HP with berserker's). Also you could cast lava fonts back to back for constant DPS.

 

But they nerfed it because people QQed ele was doing too much damage and because anet bases their nerfs on stationary golem numbers.

 

Now, with the numbers we are seeing in ridiculous kitten like dragon trigger and firebrand, i don't see why they can't bring it back.

 

 

 

Pretty sure it was a raids nerf, to stop ele's broken large hitbox dps.

 

Thanks raiders.

[ROMANG.1903]

On 9/22/2021 at 5:02 AM, Westenev.5289 said:

 

Pretty sure it was a raids nerf, to stop ele's broken large hitbox dps.

 

Thanks raiders.

Then my suggestion makes even more sense: Reduce the ability's radius, concentrate the damage on a smaller area so that the difference between large and small hitboxes is minimized. Then you can ajust the numbers to make it just right.

[Tabootrinket.2631]

On 9/20/2021 at 1:43 PM, moony.5780 said:

Agree....

 

Also in open world...after 30 sec I'm already far away from the place where my hammer is waiting for me...

Would be so great if we could at least summon the second weapon like Thor's Mjolnir by pressing the utility button again (and it hurts people in the trajectory too lol)

[Seraphic Sonata.8426]

Since Hammer is set in stone. Can Staff become my Long bow idea? Do people like that?

Does not have to be support. Just the boon and condi stuff.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Seraphic Sonata.8426

[Seraphic Sonata.8426]

We all made the Bifrost first for a reason right 💔 

[Seraphic Sonata.8426]

On 9/20/2021 at 8:47 AM, Jumpel.3972 said:

It's not a tradeoff because you can play catalyst without hammer

 

1 hour ago, fuzzyp.6295 said:

Elementalists Identity in this game is a multi-faceted spell caster who can adapt to the situation with different attunements which bring a variety of ways to address the situation. That means it brings Damage, Heals, Control or Defense to whatever the situation demands. All arguments of range vs melee based builds aside,  to turn Elementalist into a purely supportive class would be a complete reversal what Elementalist is and has stood for since Guild Wars 1. Support has always been there (Wards for example) but it has never been the main focus. Tempest, an Elite Spec, does focus on Support... which makes sense for an Elite Spec since thats what they're supposed to offer.

Anyway, THAT suggestion would get a resounding no from me.

I will say the changes you suggest could be fun for a new elite spec. The idea of elemental creatures being  part of our kit is kinda interesting and unique if they can do better stuff with pet AI in this game.

 

1 hour ago, fuzzyp.6295 said:

Tell me: are you upset that Catalyst isn't pure support or that Elementalist itself itsn't a pure support class? Because in your post you are saying that Weaver should be the only DPS Focused Elementalist spec and the rest (Elementalist, Tempest and Cataylst) should focus on support. 

It's fine for Elite Specs to break the Rules (which Tempest does, focusing on Healing/Support when thats not the idenity of the Elementalist) but the entire identity of Elementalist is not support. It has never been about support. Support is one of its factors but not its defining one. Its about having flexible options to fit that situation.

Also, lets be real here, if they did introduce a Longbow class for Elementalist and its main focus was on support/control instead of pure, raw dps the community would likely flip out again lol.

 

On 9/21/2021 at 9:46 AM, Razor.6392 said:

Not even Melandru with Dwayna and Lyssa fused are going to change ANet's vision on Staff.

It's a good thing Kormir fused with Abbadon to start the fusing process, We've only seen their first form.