Why Vindicator Theorie Crafting shows the flaws of the Salvation Line

[InsaneQR.7412]

Greetings

 

So i got really excited to play Vindicator after the stream and got back into theory crafting.

 

Viktor gives prime opportunity to capitalize on the salvation traitlines and staff seems a fantastic fit for the alliance legend.

 

Then i noticed something that really left a bad taste in my mouth when i made a salvation line build without ventari.

 

Serene Rejuvination.

 

Not a bad trait. On the contrary its even a meta build defining trait for heal alacrigate. But its placement is what bugs me.

 

Why make a minor trait that mainly benefits just one legend? Wouldnt it make sense to give us a minor trait that benefit many playstyles?

 

 So my proposal: Switch serene rejuvination with either words of censure or Invoking harmony. Both of those traits benefit multiple possible builds without restricting your choice in legend weapon or skills.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by InsaneQR.7412

[Za Shaloc.3908]

The alacrity affecting just Ventari does seem to be a relic of previous design, but with the new traits from Vindi, it doesn't seem to be the case as there is the same pattern (also the first time a legend has no CC). With that said, I don't really think it is any issue at all. You still get a stable 10/15% healing modifier which is superior to both adept and major healing modifier traits in PvP/WvW. It would be a big nerf to have it changed to your suggestion, and Salv's healing modifiers have already been hit hard from the Feb 2020 balance patch and dont need to be hit any harder. I assume that ANet's logic to having the alacrity effect there is to gate people to take Salv so it is a bigger dps loss if a dps class wants to slot in Ventari for certain encounters.

[InsaneQR.7412]

27 minutes ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

The alacrity affecting just Ventari does seem to be a relic of previous design, but with the new traits from Vindi, it doesn't seem to be the case as there is the same pattern (also the first time a legend has no CC). With that said, I don't really think it is any issue at all. You still get a stable 10/15% healing modifier which is superior to both adept and major healing modifier traits in PvP/WvW. It would be a big nerf to have it changed to your suggestion, and Salv's healing modifiers have already been hit hard from the Feb 2020 balance patch and dont need to be hit any harder. I assume that ANet's logic to having the alacrity effect there is to gate people to take Salv so it is a bigger dps loss if a dps class wants to slot in Ventari for certain encounters.

It still feels horribly bad to have a trait that has just half implact on your build.

If there would be the possibility to trigger natural harmony on legend swap or heal it woul be fine. Ventari would get more out of it but you could still benefit with any other legend. Also you would still have access to the trait just at a different part of the spec. The heal modifier still could be adjusted accordingly to balance it back out. The reason why serene rejuvination feels bad has a design reason. Not a numerical one.

Edited September 20, 2021 by InsaneQR.7412

[Jaykay.9641]

As @Za Shaloc.3908 mentioned, the Serene Rejuvenation design seems to be the past way Devs designed the traits to coincide with specific Legend utilities. I could write an essay on how this is poor design choice, but it's where were at.

Imo, the issue isn't Serene Rejuvenation per se, but it's the design of the talents themselves. We are given three distinct play styles that coincides with top, middle, and bottom traits. In a way, Salvation traits don't actually give you a choice, you select talents based a specific game mode and deviating from the trait rows almost puts you at a disadvantage. To top it off, when 1/3 of the traits are given to a poor mechanic in Healing Orbs, it limits the choice and design space even further.

I'm exciting for Vindicator testing and I will definitely have some feedback, but I'm already frustrated with some of the existing traits lines in Rev's kit (such as Salvation traits). I'm going to try my best to not let that affect my feedback but it's always going to be in the back of my mind.

[InsaneQR.7412]

21 minutes ago, Jaykay.9641 said:

As @Za Shaloc.3908 mentioned, the Serene Rejuvenation design seems to be the past way Devs designed the traits to coincide with specific Legend utilities. I could write an essay on how this is poor design choice, but it's where were at.

Imo, the issue isn't Serene Rejuvenation per se, but it's the design of the talents themselves. We are given three distinct play styles that coincides with top, middle, and bottom traits. In a way, Salvation traits don't actually give you a choice, you select talents based a specific game mode and deviating from the trait rows almost puts you at a disadvantage. To top it off, when 1/3 of the traits are given to a poor mechanic in Healing Orbs, it limits the choice and design space even further.

I'm exciting for Vindicator testing and I will definitely have some feedback, but I'm already frustrated with some of the existing traits lines in Rev's kit (such as Salvation traits). I'm going to try my best to not let that affect my feedback but it's always going to be in the back of my mind.

Tbh i can already see myself criticizing the salvation line when making a vindicator feedback, just because vindicator would benefit from the line just due to the dodge and heal synergy it includes.

[Aeolus.3615]

Salvation Trailines 111 are the problem of the Ventari and this line needs to be adressed.

 

Most players use 3-2-3 or 3-3--3, altoug blinding Truth has no ICD :) so most probably will be 2-2-3 or  2-2-2 (for barrier and more armor). 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[InsaneQR.7412]

3 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Salvation Trailines 111 are the problem of the Ventari and this line needs to be adressed.

 

Most players use 3-2-3 or 3-3--3, altoug blinding Truth has no ICD 🙂 so most probably will be 2-2-3 or  2-2-2 (for barrier and more armor). 

 

 

Well yeah the healing orb trait could need some rework but they atleast are usable/accessible fully with all legends and staff also gets something out of it. 

Reason why i critize seren rejuvination is because its a very specific trait that cannot be chosen but is forced with the line. And that is just bad design.

 

Vigor in orbs maybe a cool choice for heal vindicator and is also one i want to experiment with.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

One can argue that you don't need ventari for the 15% outgoing healing increase of serene rejuvenation.

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

Well yeah the healing orb trait could need some rework but they atleast are usable/accessible fully with all legends and staff also gets something out of it. 

Reason why i critize seren rejuvination is because its a very specific trait that cannot be chosen but is forced with the line. And that is just bad design.

 

Vigor in orbs maybe a cool choice for heal vindicator and is also one i want to experiment with.

 

 

The problem is that orbs dont work well with game mechanics .

Edited September 21, 2021 by Aeolus.3615