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Am I the only one having issues with Guilds?


Sir Arigius.6294

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I've grown tired of just playing the game by myself and random players that come and go on the map. Most of the guilds I have joined weren't social enough, as in they were pretty dead, their member base having been inactive for months, or several of the new members unresponsive. 

 

The guilds I joined were quiet with maybe one or two members that's willing to hang out and do stuff but weren't active or we were on at different times. Another issue I've run into with the bigger guilds is that sometimes you get completely ignored in the chat whether you're trying to get to know the community better or wanting to partake in things. 

 

I've been playing since 2013 and I've soloed much of the PVE content with rarely getting any help in the past. It's not that I don't want to be in a guild, it's just I haven't found a community of players that are encouraging and inspiring enough that makes me want to stay in their guild. I would love to be in a guild don't get me wrong. 

 

Any ideas or suggestions?

 

Edited by Sir Arigius.6294
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That's why I avoid mass guilds (very large guilds that are just about mass). I am in my guild now for years and even if it is smaller and less active in the summer or so , I have a lot of fun there and know the people now for a long time.

If you just want to be a blob in the crowd, mass guilds are of course great. Or if you are super extroverted and like to be super loud in TS/Discord. But for everyone else I would recommend smaller guilds from 5-10 people.

Also, I would always ask for a talk at the beginning and not join a guild that just invites randomly. That can go well, but in my experience rarely.

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My guild is rather small and quiet, but very tightly knit. It has it's benefits and drawbacks to new members. Generally, a newcomer who doesn't actually talk will find little of interest, as we join up on each other's activities by asking and talking about it, but many newcomers dont dare asking. I've had the opposite once, when I tried to prod a new member to ask if they needed a hand with something, and didn't get any answer.  My guild is mostly social and to facilitate friends activities, even if we invite people who ask to join in. Many are generally disappointed by the size and leave immediately after (makes it challenging to grow :D). 

Your best bet is to find a dedicated guild that does the type of content you're specifically after. Raid guilds, or WvW guilds, or such.

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Keep trying guilds until you find a fit.  Try looking for guild section in forum.  Smaller guilds tend to be more chatty but also may not have people to do something.  Most use discord instead of typing... personally I prefer in game for most things but I don't raid so I don't need mass communication and not interested in the social media aspect.  

Your best bet for getting help or someone to play with is looking for group or asking on a map.  You might even find some that you like to play with regularly that way, with a common interest.

 

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This is a problem with GW2 in general. The only place there's any sense of community akin to other games/MMOs is WvW -- and due to its infinitely smaller playerbase, even that is hit and miss.

 

For some reason the game is incredibly anti-social. Maybe it's the "login, do dailies, log out" taken to the extreme that saps any sense of community -- but even that's only one factor. Instanced maps, lack of worlds (you'll always see randoms rather than the same sorts of people on each map), language differences (esp. across EU), and just the general solo nature of the game.

 

With guilds in particular, they too lack the, i dunno, uniqueness of other MMOs. You can join a bunch of them, they're easy to get running, and have massive pools of members. You join, get your freebies, and carry on about your day. The few attempts Anet has made to make them engaging haven't been touched in a long time, and i wonder whether they were ever much of a thing to begin with -- e.g., guild world events, and of course scribing.

Edited by LSD.4673
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I have been in a few guilds, but the ones with staying power (in my personal experience, and based on my personal interests) have been the RP guilds.  Obviously you shouldn't join one of those if you have no interest in RP, and it can take a little to find one that suits your style -- if you want swashbuckling adventure, you'll loathe tavern soap opera, and vice versa -- but having an RP storyline can knit the group together because if you have nothing else to discuss at a given moment you can still talk about what the characters are doing and develop in-jokes based on character quirks and such.

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Ya good guilds are really tough to find. In nine years I've found two guilds, both were decent--one used to run dungeons and faded out over time, and the other I'm currently in does WvW literally nightly which is my favorite game mode.  The second one I just lucked into by solo roaming and coming across two of the members.  

 

HOPEFULLY the WvW restructuring fixes this with the more of a guild focus, but who knows.

Edited by Gotejjeken.1267
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8 minutes ago, LSD.4673 said:

 You can join a bunch of them

I have to admit, that's been a huge thorn in my side as a guild leader : Every time one of my member joined another guild, even if they had perfectly valid reasons (IE : joining a specialized guild as opposed to my very casual one), all it did was give my guild a phantom member, and when they wanted to be more chatty and relaxed and spend time with mine, it gave their other guild that same phantom member... Sharing members like that is a huge detriment to anyone who tries to grow a guild that is close to it's members... More pragmatic members will always gravitate toward the guild with the best services, making it incredibly difficult for an upstart guild to compete. 5 potential guilds means that 4 are likely to not see that member ever.

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1 hour ago, Naxos.2503 said:

Every time one of my member joined another guild, even if they had perfectly valid reasons (IE : joining a specialized guild as opposed to my very casual one), all it did was give my guild a phantom member, and when they wanted to be more chatty and relaxed and spend time with mine, it gave their other guild that same phantom member...

The fact you think you there are invalid reasons for someone joining another guild (in addition to yours) speaks volumes about why you are finding growing your guild challenging.

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5 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

The fact you think you there are invalid reasons for someone joining another guild (in addition to yours) speaks volumes about why you are finding growing your guild challenging.

I mean, there are ? Like with everything. I'm not even sure what you're trying to suggest there, some people will join a guild only for wanting free things and make a ruckus when we tell them that's probably not wise to just give out free stuff to someone we met only seconds ago, in which case they will huff and puff, and leave...  Or they will join another guild and all but cut contact, even if they stay in the list... Is that valid in your book ? 

I kinda take offense to the way you formulated that to be honest, you make it sounds like I act offended and reproachful to members that would actually join up another guild, that's simply not the case. I find it sad more than anything, due to the reason I gave earlier (phantom members).

Edited by Naxos.2503
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36 minutes ago, Naxos.2503 said:

I mean, there are ? Like with everything. I'm not even sure what you're trying to suggest there, some people will join a guild only for wanting free things and make a ruckus when we tell them that's probably not wise to just give out free stuff to someone we met only seconds ago, in which case they will huff and puff, and leave...  Or they will join another guild and all but cut contact, even if they stay in the list... Is that valid in your book ? 

I kinda take offense to the way you formulated that to be honest, you make it sounds like I act offended and reproachful to members that would actually join up another guild, that's simply not the case. I find it sad more than anything, due to the reason I gave earlier (phantom members).

The very fact that you are making an arbitrary value judgment about the way your guildies use their 4 remaining guild slots is highly indicative of the environment and culture that you as a guild leader are creating.

Do you also tell them how to fill their bank slots, or use their build templates?

If someone leaves in a huff because you don't give them free stuff, they are doing you a favour. They are clearly stating that their goals and values are not aligned with your own.

Problem solved.... gkick and move on. They can have fun in the "big guilds" with their fake giveaways and scam raffles.

 

Calling it "sad" or labelling another player's use of a guild slot as "invalid" points to the fact that you are not focused on creating a fun engaging social community.

Making value judgments about how a player in your guild uses their remaining guild slots is not leading a community.

It's power tripping.

If I were in a guild where the leader was looking over my shoulder to see where I was spending my time and with whom?

I would drop that guild faster than a conjure weapon.

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2 hours ago, Deedrick.4372 said:

Guilds are little more than a friends list. The only benefit is you can talk to all friends at once. This game lends itself to being solo, except for niche content. Looking for the guild that's perfect for you will never happen, because its just asking for a pre-built list of friends.

I've seen this comment before. It's not true, at least for my guild. Possibly because we're more focused on stuff like achievements and a lot of achievements are easier with more people. People need help we find a way to help them. We're online every day. A couple of people have full home instances and every day at reset there are two, three full groups farming them. WE do dailies together. Get the anomaly together, we run story together (many of us are working on Seasons of the Dragon). Some people WvW and others do Fractals.  I find pretty much everything, even map completion, more fun with friends. Not as efficient mind you, but a guild doesn't have to be just a friends list. That's a choice.

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2 hours ago, Naxos.2503 said:

I have to admit, that's been a huge thorn in my side as a guild leader : Every time one of my member joined another guild, even if they had perfectly valid reasons (IE : joining a specialized guild as opposed to my very casual one), all it did was give my guild a phantom member, and when they wanted to be more chatty and relaxed and spend time with mine, it gave their other guild that same phantom member... Sharing members like that is a huge detriment to anyone who tries to grow a guild that is close to it's members... More pragmatic members will always gravitate toward the guild with the best services, making it incredibly difficult for an upstart guild to compete. 5 potential guilds means that 4 are likely to not see that member ever.

I'm a guild leader for 9 years and I encourage people to join other guilds if it'll make their game play experience better.  If your guild is fun and good enough people will show up. If it's not, why should they.  

We have a core group of people in my guild, somewhere between 15 and 30 people, who show up pretty much every day. I don't care it there are 200 people who never participate. It doesn't really matter.  Some people make the jump to join us but most don't and that's fine. I have enough people to play with.


Sometimes people move on, go to other games, or get busy in real life and they take a break, and sometimes other people come in to replace them, but that's fine. I didn't buy someone's game, I sure have no say in how they play it.

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Just now, mindcircus.1506 said:

The very fact that you are making an arbitrary value judgment about the way your guildies use their 4 remaining guild slots is highly indicative of the environment and culture that you as a guild leader are creating.

Do you also tell them how to fill their bank slots, or use their build templates?

If someone leaves in a huff because you don't give them free stuff, they are doing you a favour. They are clearly stating that their goals and values are not aligned with your own.

Problem solved.... gkick and move on. They can have fun in the "big guilds" with their fake giveaways and scam raffles.

 

Calling it "sad" or labelling another player's use of a guild slot as "invalid" points to the fact that you are not focused on creating a fun engaging social community.

Making value judgments about how a player in your guild uses their remaining guild slots is not leading a community.

It's power tripping.

If I were in a guild where the leader was looking over my shoulder to see where I was spending my time and with whom?

I would drop that guild faster than a conjure weapon.

Wooow, there. You misinterpreted what I said completely. I'm not telling my guildies anything. If they join another guild, it's because they provide something mine doesn't, and it's fine. If I wasn't okay with that, I'd do as you say, and kick. It's perfectly fair for them to join a guild that runs content we dont. A guild provides, it doesn't take away.

As far getting demanding newcomers out of the way, we agree, I just honestly dont understand why many don't Do just that, and stay in the list of a guild they're not going to be active in at all. If the guild is not working out of them, they dont benefit from staying in it and not representing at all, since you have to represent to benefit from any guild perk. 

I dont look over my guildies to see where they've been. As explained, if they joined another guild, it's because they give them something we dont. That's fine. On the other hand, I dont understand why they stay inactive in my guild's list if it's to never re-appear again. It leaves some doubt about whether or not that member is interested in our guild at all, or has found another home entirely. I dont judge, our guild strive to be a home to it's members, and if it isn't one, and a member find their home elsewhere, it is better for them.

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5 minutes ago, Naxos.2503 said:

Wooow, there. You misinterpreted what I said completely. I'm not telling my guildies anything. If they join another guild, it's because they provide something mine doesn't, and it's fine. If I wasn't okay with that,

If you were truly fine with it, you wouldn't express sadness.

If you were truly fine with it, you would not create an arbitrary judgment about what is a valid reason for them to use a guild slot  and what is not.

You may backpedal all you like on this but I have misinterpreted nothing.

 

6 minutes ago, Naxos.2503 said:

I dont look over my guildies to see where they've been.

If you are doing an accounting of "phantom members" (which you yourself admitted you are doing) then you are most definitely doing this.

Edited by mindcircus.1506
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43 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

If you were truly fine with it, you wouldn't express sadness.

If you were truly fine with it, you would not create an arbitrary judgment about what is a valid reason for them to use a guild slot  and what is not.

You may backpedal all you like on this but I have misinterpreted nothing.

I'm not backpedalling on anything... I find it sad that people dont outright leave when their interest doesn't allign at all with the guild, and prefer to stay in a list that'll never see them active again. Sometime people join in spite of us telling them the kind of guild we are, end up disappointed, and never interact with us again. They stay in the guild list for months, without a word. In general I'd say they have joined a guild that fits them better, but I'd then expect them to leave. There is no harm done in that. Instead we get a reminder in the list of someone that didn't find a home with us, found it elsewhere, and we'll never see them again, except as a list with a crossed green square. What then is the point ? Do I kick that person then ? After how long would it not be considered callous to do so ?

I do not judge on what my guildies and ex-guildies do with their time ingame, and I find it a bit.. odd that fixate on wanting to portray me that way. Aside from the afforemented reason I've given, I dont think there are "invalid" reasons for joining another guild. 

To give you an example : We dont really organize raids. Yet we have members that are interested in raiding. Those members joined another guild for the purpose of raiding. Yet they come back to us and play with us on every other content. We just dont have enough raid interested guildies to form a solid squad. That doesn't make them any less my guildies. 

 

Edit : Look if you're gonna be that needlessly antagonistic, and trying to twist words to fulfill your narrative, I'm just not gonna pursue that discussion with you. I dont know where your hostility comes from, or your presjudicial belief stem from, but I will have no part in it.

Edited by Naxos.2503
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There's no need to put words in his mouth - are you saying he can't speak about his feelings of multiple guilds are being detrimental to his leader experiece? Are you saying he can't speak that on forum?

Like literally the reason you write some like "valid reason" is to particularly point out that it's not because they do anything wrong but it still makes you sad.

You can accept everyones freedom to act for themselves and be fine with that, even if some of the circumstances make you sad. You want that guy to look bad, and now youre trying to put words in mouth, but he can speak his experience and you don't need to discredit him for it. That speaks volume about who you are, hunting for blame.

For what it's worth there is a logical correlation between being able to be in many guilds, and how much competition there is for guilds aka how harder is it for non-top guilds to stay relevant. When you are forced to join only one you are more likely to invest in it and give it a real chance, pure and simply. And that's pretty much what he said.

Edited by Crackmonster.2790
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On 9/21/2021 at 4:10 AM, Naxos.2503 said:

I have to admit, that's been a huge thorn in my side as a guild leader : Every time one of my member joined another guild, even if they had perfectly valid reasons (IE : joining a specialized guild as opposed to my very casual one), all it did was give my guild a phantom member, and when they wanted to be more chatty and relaxed and spend time with mine, it gave their other guild that same phantom member... Sharing members like that is a huge detriment to anyone who tries to grow a guild that is close to it's members... More pragmatic members will always gravitate toward the guild with the best services, making it incredibly difficult for an upstart guild to compete. 5 potential guilds means that 4 are likely to not see that member ever.

I disagree. Having this expectation of a guild member should only be in your guild and no others is a selfish mentality. A guild does not own any players. Players do not solely belong to that guild just because we are in it.

You talked about phantom members but the same can be said for many guilds. For example, 40+/445 members online and yet every day nobody chats, no response when you greeted them, no response when someone asked a question, no response when some one asked for help. This is happening in many max level guilds.

Even active guilds won't last. I have gone through guilds that are active in guild missions, raids, fractals, strikes and even wvw. But they don't last. After a few months in them, slowly you will see a drop in activities until key members started to disappear from many hours to days to weeks. And the guild just went dead for months.

And even for those semi active guilds, it is common to see elitists only chatting among themselves. Or chats in the guild are always between a group of people and when you tried to get involve, you are being ignored or everyone just went dumb. But when a GL comes in and said 'hi',  suddenly every one is alive again lol

This is why it is good to be in a few guilds just to keep the game alive. When a guild goes dead for months I will just change to another simply because if no one is interested in bringing some life to that guild, to me it no longer exist. 

Edited by Mil.3562
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19 minutes ago, Mil.3562 said:

I disagree. Having this expectation of a guild member should only be in your guild and no others is a selfish mentality. A guild does not own any players. Players do not solely belong to that guild just because we ae in it.

You talked about phantom members but the opposite can be said for many guilds. For example, 40+/445 members online and yet every day one chats, no response when you greeted them, no response when someone asked a question, no response when some one asked for help. This is happening in many max level guilds.

Even active guilds won't last. I have gone through guilds that are active in guild missions, raids, fractals, strikes and even wvw. But they don't last. After a few months in them, slowly you will see a drop in such activities until key members started to disappear from many hours to days to weeks. And the guild just went dead for months.

And even for those semi active guilds, it is common to see elitists only chat among themselves. Or chats in the guild are always between a group of people and when you tried to get involve, you are being ignored or everyone just went dumb. And when a GL comes in and said 'hi',  suddenly every one is alive again lol

This is why it is good to be in a few guilds just to keep the game alive. When a guild goes dead for months I will just change to another simply because no one is interested in bringing some life to that guild and it no longer exist. 

To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying there should be only 1 guild tab, for the reasons I've given above, not all guilds provides all contents. I just find 5 kind of excessive, 3 would probably be a bit better for the health of those guilds.

I understand your point, and in fact we agree on many things, though in my opinion, focusing on a few guilds results in a more tight knit guild community, whereas splitting attention across 5 guilds will lead to having subpar relations with atleast 1 if not more of them. In my opinion, the reason guilds dont last as long is probably due to that lack of tight bonds. That's my personal opinion on the matter, not any fact. I've lead a guild on other games before, in one case for 7 years, without much issue, and they didn't allow players to have multiple guilds then. It didn't prevent players from playing with other people of course, but the chat was always used, people created long lasting friendships and even families, older members would feel more involved in nurturing new ones.  That's not to say that if guild wars 2 reduced the amount of potential guilds, all problems would be solved, but I think their communities might not die out as easily. There is also the fact that some guild wars 2 players just dont stick around, even after joining a guild, sometime they just stop playing, and the guild dies out anyway.

I think the model they used for guild wars 2 probably relate to the activities of the game, as the example of the guild missions that can be specialized would attest, they wanted guilds to be atleast a bit specialized, and to offset that for players who wanted to do everything, they gave the option for players to join up to 5 guilds.

Edited by Naxos.2503
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13 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I've seen this comment before. It's not true, at least for my guild. Possibly because we're more focused on stuff like achievements and a lot of achievements are easier with more people. People need help we find a way to help them. We're online every day. A couple of people have full home instances and every day at reset there are two, three full groups farming them. WE do dailies together. Get the anomaly together, we run story together (many of us are working on Seasons of the Dragon). Some people WvW and others do Fractals.  I find pretty much everything, even map completion, more fun with friends. Not as efficient mind you, but a guild doesn't have to be just a friends list. That's a choice.

 

 

I still don't see how this is more than a friends list. Active and doing stuff yes... but what does the guild mechanics bring to the table that you couldn't do via a friends list?

 

There are a couple of missions that could easily be part of the game, that bring no real value, but adding to the grind from anet side. Other than that, there isn't any thing there in GW2 to be more than a friends list. Soon to change for WvW guilds.

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8 hours ago, Deedrick.4372 said:

 

 

I still don't see how this is more than a friends list. Active and doing stuff yes... but what does the guild mechanics bring to the table that you couldn't do via a friends list?

 

There are a couple of missions that could easily be part of the game, that bring no real value, but adding to the grind from anet side. Other than that, there isn't any thing there in GW2 to be more than a friends list. Soon to change for WvW guilds.

I suppose it would be a friends list if we weren't all sitting in the guild discord every single evening, getting stuff done. And discord isn't in the game. But we'd never have met at all without the guild. We still do guild missions twice a week, btw, after after all these years. We run bigger content as a guild. Trying to get that stuff organized on a friends list without guild chat? Not going to happen.


If we had a schedule it would be different, we could say post it on a website. But then, it's not so easy. Imagine having 200 people on your friends list, needing help and having to message each one of them and remember who each one was. You're really diminishing the value of having guild chat alone.

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