Counterplay to thief as Guardian?

[Ragnar.4257]

7 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

No actually it isn't, I've been playing thief for 8 yrs and only pvp in those 8 yrs and guard has always been a counter to thief. Sry but a bunch of new inexperienced guards complaining about thief being a tough match up doesn't change that it actually favors the guard when the guard is experienced.

Thst said yrs ago when the meta was completely different sd thief was decent vs guards but that's no longer the case.

No, this is no longer true. 

 

It USED to be true that guardian hard countered thief. This was before Swipe was unblockable, Basilisk Venom was unblockable, back when Smite Condition could burst a thief for 50% of its HP, back when symbols were large enough to genuinely act as area-denial, and back when guardian could do damage without running 11k HP. Its like how it USED to be true that thief hard-countered mesmer, but PoF-launch condi-Mirage was not hard-countered by thief. This isn't 2012, shocker.

 

Now, as Kuma has found out and Math is explaining, this is a matchup that a D/P Daredevil played correctly should always win. Shadowshot in, 2-3 hits, dodge away, repeat, and save steal to deny heal, will always eventually win.

 

The best you can do is stay alive long enough to waste his time, and maybe he gets bored and leaves. As Math mentioned, use terrain to deny ports and bait a swap into Shortbow can help you drag out the fight. Using F1 to clear the blind on you can also help. If you're using GS, it's best to stick to auto-attacks. Whirling-Wrath will always get interrupted or dodged, but most people ignore how hard GS autos hit for.

 

Or, if you really want to win this matchup, take DH. Spear really messes thieves up. Another option is to take Hammer, the ring is a real nightmare for d/p thieves.

 

Also, only maybe 2% of thieves are actually capable of playing their build to this level of competence, so...... just queue-dodge the ones who can.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Hey Kuma

 

i usto main theif for about 5 years. One of the best strategies against daredevil is damaging conditions. They have a hard time cleansing them, so if you have a persistent way to apply some conditions like burning you can force them to always disengage or they die. I did this on my reaper (I no longer play Deaths Perception. And I roll Dhuumfire) and I got extraordinary results when 1v1ing thieves.

 

for dealing with blinds, you just have to play into their capacity of thinking they are safe from damage on skills where they aren’t. I’ve stood in blind fields to deny their stealth, as well as just autoing inside them. Coupled with some multiple hitting attacks this is almost always a death sentence for thieves and I get a laugh every time I catch a kill on my reaper like this.

 

cheers,

 

Edit: Also it's very useful to have both a ranged and a melle weapon.

Edited September 21, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[anjo.6143]

On 9/21/2021 at 8:06 AM, Filip.7463 said:

Why would u avoid it? Its free kill

 

 

On 9/21/2021 at 1:48 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

From what I'm gathering Core struggles vs thief so it's best to avoid that 1v1 If possible. Proccing blind with symbols and using no-ports to bait them into shortbow seem to be the two main strats vs them?

 

I do try to fight on node vs thief where possible. I can normally hold/cap it for a while, but eventually lose if the fight drags on, and get demolished if they rotate 2v1 into me, provided the thief doesn't fall for any of the cheese strats i mentioned above. 

 

I can definately see DH being a good answer to them. I haven't played it much, but in theory, if they try to port into dragon's maw, you can spear them then pull them back in if they try to port out. Having a long ranged option to bully them if they try to run would also help. 

 

I'll try learning DH for a bit. Appreciate the advice. 

1) core guard is trash atm, unless support. I wouldnt play support on ranked.
2) dh farms thieves.
3) dont play firebrand atm.

[Kuya.6495]

On 9/21/2021 at 12:48 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

From what I'm gathering Core struggles vs thief so it's best to avoid that 1v1 If possible. Proccing blind with symbols and using no-ports to bait them into shortbow seem to be the two main strats vs them?

 

I do try to fight on node vs thief where possible. I can normally hold/cap it for a while, but eventually lose if the fight drags on, and get demolished if they rotate 2v1 into me, provided the thief doesn't fall for any of the cheese strats i mentioned above. 

 

I can definately see DH being a good answer to them. I haven't played it much, but in theory, if they try to port into dragon's maw, you can spear them then pull them back in if they try to port out. Having a long ranged option to bully them if they try to run would also help. 

 

I'll try learning DH for a bit. Appreciate the advice. 

You don't even have to go full trapper if you don't want to. Just test of faith is enough to give a d/p thief trouble when they port in and out, damaging themselves. Take the stunbreak trait on dh so their initial steal will trigger your stab trap so they can't do a follow up cc. Whatever you do, don't let them drag out the fight or they will run out your CDs (even though if a thf has to invest that much time that they have to wait for you to run out of CDs, they are throwing).  So be very aggressive. 

 

Do be aware that a p/p thf build, while a meme, can wreck even a DH if you're not used to dealing with them.  Save your shield 5 and f3 for these occasions and counter attack with lb. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Kuya.6495

[jdawgie.1835]

On 9/21/2021 at 6:20 AM, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Yes ,you have been playing 8 year Thief , mister 2017 😛

Lol. The forums start your join year, the year of your first post. Not the year of your game time. I was in spvp at launch. Literally. It says I joined in 2020. Are you trolling?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 9/21/2021 at 3:17 PM, Ragnar.4257 said:

No, this is no longer true. 

Thieves used to be here mad, because they were trying to grab mace crack so they could daze the guard long enough to kill him, but running into Aegis like birds into a recently polished window. 

Lmao nostalgia

[Kanto.2485]

Core guard is free farm, you can interrupt everything from it and you kill it in 3 hits if it's dps. It also still doesn't have a single reveal, like fb.

DH can kill you if you try to kill him on his traps, and it does have a reveal that is actually used, although it's target based, telegraphed and easily dodgeable, but you can walk away and the dh is never reaching you so...

On the other hand if the thief sucks you can catch him with the shadowstep and kill him!

[Cynz.9437]

On 9/21/2021 at 1:06 PM, Filip.7463 said:

Why would u avoid it? Its free kill

 

Because fighting guard takes time, even if you fight a build that you can win against. Time is precious in ranked. In current role thief should be helping teammates/cap/decap and not play a dueler vs a class that they are most likely to lose against in many cases (given meta builds). The only time i would duel a guard on point if point belong to my team or is decapped and i know help is coming or match is so close and about to end that denying few points by just being a body on point will give us victory. OR i am in low rank and i know enemy is just that bad so can fight can be finished quickly. That is a lot of IFs.

Also the fact that you have to ask just shows how much you know about pvp and roamer role.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Cynz.9437

[Genesis.5169]

Roll DH and u beat thieves.