Catalyst Feedback Thread

[Zigy.3594]

When you look at the Catalyst specialization art it suggests that the Jade sphere is an important constantly present part of the spec, which couldn't be farther from the truth in this beta version.

 

I was kinda hoping the Jade sphere would float around us at all times, and there could be a playoff between having the Jade sphere on yourself to give you boons or placing it on enemies to give them conditions.

 

The new utilites, weapon skills and attunement switching need to interact with the Jade sphere in a more meaningful and impactful way in order for the Catalyst to get a clean and interesting identity.

 

 

 

[azarhal.3086]

10 hours ago, Usagi.4835 said:

I'm curious what other people think: is Catalyst encroaching on Tempest's niche? Should these new aura traits be folded into existing traitlines? 

Catalyst isn't encroaching on Tempest's niche (aura generation) as they are very bad at comboing and tus generating auras. Catalyst is supposed to be selfish with auras (unless they go water and take the grandmaster) and use them to empower themselves. But they need a Tempest to share auras to get anything out that class mechanic...

Catalyst aren't self-reliant with their own class mechanics and that's a big problem. It's like if Bladesworn only generated Flow when other players killed things around them...

Edited September 22, 2021 by azarhal.3086

[Mystrael.7916]

Hi, some feedback from an half ele main 

 

F5 feel unrewarding, the double cost doesnt help, give us energy or cooldown but not both, the field is not good enough for the cost/cdr. It should be either permanent or easy to move

 

Make quickness in a trait so f5 always give it so a quick build would be viable

 

Fire hammer is good , maybe the 4 a bit slow but still good

 

Water hammer is fine also , maybe a bit more healing because only the 4 is hard

 

Lightning hammer is great , only the 5 is to slow

 

Earth hammer is way to slow, the 2 is a huge problem

 

All utility are underwhelming , not rewarding enough with their augment as it is hard to have/be in our well

 

Ultimate is lackluster, barely notice it

 

Havnt tried it in pvp, only pve

 

Thanks

 

 

 

[crosknight.3041]

i'm super disappointed in the catalyst. only thing i like about it is the hammer (which imo does need some balancing with cast times and durations but i do enjoy the animations) but the specialization mechanic feels like a lame duck, and the utilities are super boring. trait wise it feels like the specilzation itself has an identity crisis with the aura based traits when imo it should be going full force into the combo fields (i can hear my tempest yelling at the catalysts about trying to steal it's auramancer shtick). it really feels like it's an unfinished idea.

personally, the fixes i'd implement would be
1. jade Sphere
A) Jade Sphere works like Engineers "Reconstruction Field" toolbelt skill. it's a combo field that is tied to the players location the entire duration.
B) jade Sphere now has a set duration, and not reliant on energy generation/consumption. the energy mechanic imo makes the mechanic feels quite limited. i'd personally like it to last 20-30 seconds
C)Energy mechanic now works like warriors Adrenaline, has 3 charge levels that is built up by swapping attunements and activating combos. the higher your charge level is, the better the effects of your orb. more damage and more boons.
D) Recalling your sphere is replaced with "Energy Detonation" which consumes all the energy you've stored up in your sphere dealing damage based on the energy spent and ends your field putting mechanic on cooldown.

2)Utilities
A) utilites now have extra effects and are more dynamic with combo finishers. "Relentless Fire" deals damage in the area around you and blast finishes, "Invigorating Air" is now a leap that jumps you to your targeted location while doing a leap finisher, "shattering Ice" now shoots ice towards a target (or targeted location) while executing a projectile finisher, "Soothing Water" spins water around you knocking back enemies and executing a whirl finisher. "fortified earth" seems alright atm to me.
B) Utilities effects dont care which attunement you are in but reward you with longer duration if the attunement matches.
C) Elite generates energy while active and the cooldown reduction effects utilities as well.

it's already taken me to long to type up these ideas so going to skip traits for now, def would like to replace the aura traits with more combo finisher traits though and enhance the jade sphere effecting traits,

Edit: sorry for the long post, i literally spent my entire work shift thinking about this.

Edited September 22, 2021 by crosknight.3041

[HotDelirium.7984]

37 minutes ago, Zigy.3594 said:

When you look at the Catalyst specialization art it suggests that the Jade sphere is an important constantly present part of the spec, which couldn't be farther from the truth in this beta version.

 

I was kinda hoping the Jade sphere would float around us at all times, and there could be a playoff between having the Jade sphere on yourself to give you boons or placing it on enemies to give them conditions.

 

The new utilites, weapon skills and attunement switching need to interact with the Jade sphere in a more meaningful and impactful way in order for the Catalyst to get a clean and interesting identity.

 

 

 

I actually think they need to synergize MORE (like a catalyst which literally means excites more activity).

A bigger field, moving field or constant field are all great ideas however remove the cooldown and allow maybe augments to generate energy when we use them and then have a minor effect per what jade sphere you have out. It's a bit lopsided to have only 1 extra for 1 field per utility skill. Then make most if not all hammer skills combo finishers ( you're literally being a Catalyst here). Alternatively, Instead of having the field generate boons, let it be a semi-permanent combo field with a longer duration. Other players will then know that if they wana combo they come to your Jade sphere! The ultimate catalyst is players working together BAM!

[Clownmug.8357]

Some quick thoughts:

• Hammer weapon skills feel really great. The Whirling Stones skill feels a little too slow though.
• The Augment skills seem subpar with requiring close proximity to Jade Sphere and being in a specific attunement just to have full functionality.
• The Jade Sphere energy requirement seems excessive. Do elementalists really need more mental load on top of attunement cooldowns, utility cooldowns, and 20 weapon skill cooldowns? Something like 10 sec field duration would've been fine instead.
• The top line of traits are all based around auras, but with hammer the main source of aura is through comboing Jade Sphere. Combined with the fact that Elemental Epitome has a 10 sec cooldown it feels like it would be a really weak build.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Clownmug.8357

[azarhal.3086]

I tested the hammer a bit more now and I find it fun, sorta. It has multiple issues.

 

- Earth skills needs to either be speed up or base damage increased. It feels worst than Reaper greatsword before the speed up was made baseline and the damage looks way lower on top. Also, the block should probably block more than one attack.

 

- The Air #4 skills, the cast time without evade makes it kinda useless for what it is meant for. Right now, it feels like a worst version of Engineer Rifle Overcharged Shot before the self-knockback was removed.

- Air #5 skill is totally useless. I tried to get it to hit anything in Gendarran Fields and failed. The radius is either too small to compensate for enemies movement or it take too much time to trigger...

 

-Fire/Air range needs to increase to at least 900. I realized that when I went back to my main Necro and remembered that Axe is 900 range and sometimes that's barely enough in term of distance to deal with mechanics and still hit something.

 

- Is there a reason why Hammer Water has zero vulnerability application when every other Ele weapons apply it? I'm ignoring Hammer 3, because icy coil last for 5 seconds and rarely hit anything.  The lonely vulnerability application is on Hammer Air #2, when Air usually apply Blindness/Weakness on other Ele weapons...and no blindness on Hammer for that matter.

 

- Hammer lack of finishers which are required to combo which is the Catalyst's focus class mechanic based on the traits. I still think moving the Hammer 3 skill to the F5 and moving the F5 fields to Hammer 3 is what makes the most sense. Then add a few finishers on Hammer and it will feel a lot less clunky to play. Hammer fields would be able to interact with the Fire grandmaster Persisting Flames too.

 

As for the augment skills, I still haven't bothered with them. People in this thread have enumerated their problems. Actually, I'm thinking that Hammer 3 little balls were the original augments idea (but they don't last long enough) and the utilities skills should just be something else.

 

And last comment, why is there a leeching sigil on the beta character two handed  weapons when Elementalist can't switch weapons in-combat?

[philvaneyck.1932]

Too slow, to low damage, unfinished animations like fire 4 suddenly disappear, the 4 skills are useless. No fun for me. All other ele specs are way more faster. I think all new elite specs are way to slow and clunky.

[gandlethorpe.2641]

Hammer is basically scepter on steroids

 

It could use a few QoL tweaks, but it's solid.

[Usagi.4835]

Last thing to add for now re: Augments. In their current state, they are not fun, they are not exciting, they are not rewarding. Looking back at previous elite specs and their utility skills, I can't see people thinking, "Wow, that augment is really strong, I'm going to spec Catalyst just for that, it's such a good skill."

But moreover, they're hamstringed because the bonus effects are contingent on setting them up with the F5; they're tied to the Jade Sphere (which has its own problems). I was trying to think earlier: what utility skills have we seen in the past that have been so limited in their usefulness because they revolved largely around the new mechanic?

1. Tempest shouts are worthwhile on their own and aren't reliant on overloads to get the most out of them,
2. Scrapper wells function well and don't need to be synced up with gyro usage,
3. Weaver stances offer great utility whether you're using staff, sword, or dagger etc.,
4. Reaper shouts are good on their own,
5. Soulbeast stances are good on their own and see play in lots of builds.
6. Core utility skills continue to be valuable for every profession and almost every build. In this case, they're better and more appealing than the Augments. When I was playing Catalyst earlier, I really struggled with the Augments and looked instead at core utilities.

The list goes on. Utility skills should be flexible and beneficial in a range of builds, settings, and applications. Augments could do with being freed from the F5 and overhauled.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Usagi.4835

[Donovan.7914]

Ele main of 7 years here. It’s currently worthless.

I'll comment useful things later.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Donovan.7914

[Brian.5324]

Low-rent scrapper

 

Unnecessary energy mechanic, clunky and non-synergistic weapon skills, boring and unimpactful utilities. I actually do like the themes of the traits but they need tuning, and, moreso, feel irrelevant when the chassis they’re put on in so bad.

 

Catalyst needs a lot, A LOT, of work. Remove energy, buff the sphere’s effect, add combo fields to hammer, and normalize the 600 range. Then add more interesting effects to utilities.

[ONko.7460]

12 hours ago, Hawkeye.5318 said:

 

- Remove Grand Finale, and let Hammer 3 be re-castable so you can just keep chaining through elements and make them permanently up

 

 

 

 Oh yes, please. Building up and maintaining the swirly balls would be far more enjoyable than building it up frantically just to lose it. 

[Amadeus.5687]

I'd suggest for the hammer skills #3 the following change to give hammer a more fun and better flowing combat.

The orbs still last for 5 seconds and run out. When a orb runs out you get a "buff" that will resummon the orb when you press your next #3 ability.

These buffs will stack for each element until you have gotten all 4 buffs or have fired the orbs off to attack the target.

I feel that would give a far better flow, where you don't stress swap trough your attunements to try get all 4 off. This will instead give a better flowing "slow build up" which will feel cool both for the elementalist player but also to fight against it as you see it slowly building up and up.

With the current dmg on the #3 I'm not worried that it will be to strong in any way

[Usagi.4835]

1 hour ago, azarhal.3086 said:

Catalyst isn't encroaching on Tempest's niche (aura generation) as they are very bad at comboing and tus generating auras. Catalyst is supposed to be selfish with auras (unless they go water and take the grandmaster) and use them to empower themselves. But they need a Tempest to share auras to get anything out that class mechanic...

Catalyst aren't self-reliant with their own class mechanics and that's a big problem. It's like if Bladesworn only generated Flow when other players killed things around them...

Look at the traits:

Quote

Hardened Auras: Damage reduction is increased when you gain an aura.

Empowering Auras: Gain increased outgoing damage.

Elemental Epitome: Gain an aura based on your current attunement when you combo. Gaining an aura grants you Elemental Empowerment.

Staunch Auras: Gain stability when you gain an aura.

By contrast, the Tempest line has 3 traits relating to auras.

Sure, Tempest can provide AOE auras without taking Powerful Aura and, in a support role, it synergises well with Catalyst. But Catalyst is also about aura augmentation and aura generation, except here you have to combine fields and finishers rather than pressing a button. Sure, I agree that auras on Catalyst are more selfish, more versatile, and more offensively-oriented depending on your trait setup.

At the moment, Catalyst isn't great at generating its own auras using combos and finishers... if you take hammer and are relying solely on F5 as your only field. If you take dagger/focus or dagger/dagger, you're better off. But I'm assuming that's not intended and if the devs rework Catalyst and add more fields/finishers, they won't really be so dependent on Tempests or other people's fields.

So then what separates the two in this regard (aura generation/enhancing the effects of auras)? What else is really that new besides the sphere, stat boosts, and the emphasis on fields and finishers as a mechanic? That said, I like Staunch Auras.

And in the interest of being fair, respectful, and more balanced, it's probably worth pointing out that Catalyst and other e-specs can be worked on and will likely see more changes even after EoD launches.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Usagi.4835
Formatting

[Astraeus.4982]

Ele main. I agree with most of the feedback offered here. I was off from the game for a few months but hearing about new specs had me excited..  alas, such a disappointment (so far). I hope the developers take player feedback seriously. It feels like with every new spec of Ele, from Tempest to Weaver to Catalyst, the level of work that has gone in designing them overall is a steep declining curve. Anyhow, I want to shed some light on the new elite skill.

[90s cd] Elite skill: Weapon skills cooldown reduction. The effect lasts 8 seconds, and you have to strike your target every second to get the max. 8 sec of cooldown reduction on your weapon skills (1s interval on the skill effect). So, if you happen to disengage or your target distances itself from you, the skill is useless. Such an "elite" skill. Where has the creativity gone? This is such a boring mechanic.

Assuming the skill will not be redesigned from scratch, please consider adding more to it. Perhaps a source of an aura based on your attunement, at the least, since the trait line for this spec offers benefits from auras (even though getting them is far less easier than on Tempest). And why not just set it to give 1s of cd every second for 8 seconds without having to hit your target? Provided that it has a 90s cd, it does not seem overpowering at all to do so. Some collection of boons that actually assist in survivability would also improve the skill, instead of the current single boon (for 4-6s) based on your attunement.

And is it too much to ask for some more visual animation upon its activation?

Edited September 22, 2021 by Astraeus.4982
Rewording 2 lines.

[Unicorn Luna.5204]

So ele now has energy management! I like the idea here but I don't like how the energy management and orb are implimented.

The jade orb implies boon support, particularly I noted quickness with air orb. So I put on diviner stats and have tried a few instances but because I can't move the orb and have to spend time charging it up in the first place, it's often wasted. If this orb worked like gyros or ventari tablet for moving it I'd be very happy!

I also feel the orb should always start at full energy - I notice it does fill if you use mistlock singularities but these only exist in fractals.

Diviner boon support auramancer as catalyst is very fun - if you happen to have battles where the orb doesn't need to be moved to be effective!

Edited September 22, 2021 by Nayaru.4716

[Adligaspgh.5492]

I like the idea of Catalyst, and feel the design ideas behind it are pretty solid, but i feel it has really missed the mark, unfortunately. 

I don't want to barge in and start shouting 'just delete, give longbow'  and i dont want to throw away a lot of development time because that is just unreasonable. I want to explain the issues i have with Catalyst, in order to justify the changes i am suggesting. The idea is to rework existing mechanics for Catalyst to make it a lot more flexible while also keeping as much of the work that has already been done.

disclaimer - im just some random dude with no development experience, so what im suggesting might not be possible to do without some major coding legwork, but... its just suggestions.

-----------------------------------
Catalyst feedback:

F5 is very clunky to use.
- requires build-up during combat 
- short duration, 15 seconds with 15 seconds cooldown = 50% uptime. 
- cancelling early depletes all energy, very punishing.
- suffers from cooldowns AND requires energy that depletes out of combat... its a frustrating mechanic.
- small area in which to fight and still receive boons
- zero mobility, not useful against enemies that leap/charge around often

Augments lack impact (linked with F5 being clunky)
- not only do you have to stand in a jade sphere, you have to stand in the jade sphere in the correct attunement to get the buff.
- limits your mobility due to having to stand in a jade sphere
- limits your flexibility due to attunement and haivng to build up energy if you dont have an active sphere.
- Invigorating Air is great though, strong bonus outside of the Jade Sphere make it worth taking anyway.

Feels Pidgeon-holed into taking Hammer.
- without Hammer, Catalyst just feels like Core Ele with an underwhelming F5 skill.  not much crossover between Catalyst and other Ele weapons.
 

- limited access to finishers using a Hammer. given the emphasis on combo fields with the F5 this seems very strange. Water Staff is a great example, being able to blast its own #3 and #5 fields using #2.

- Hammer has 3 blasts and a Leap, on 20s+ cooldowns, with no combo fields at all (because of Jade Sphere fields presumably). compare with with dagger, focus, staff, etc, you've got blast finishers and combo fields scattered liberally around. 

- the Hammer skills themselves are FUN... REALLY FUN! fantastic job on the skills. they are very fluid (seriously, the only skill that fixes your movement is Water #4 and thats a leap so it still feels pretty mobile.

- the #3 skill is a really cool idea, but sadly the setup doesnt seem worth the payoff. you spend all your time swapping attunements and using the same skill, missing out on other skills and locking yourself out of attunements. plus not doing much damage while you rack up the projectiles.

- it feels very slow to set the #3 combo up and its quite an obvious telegraph that sets you up for a seriously punishing interrupt due to the limited window to refresh the next projectile.

The Elite skill seems pretty good at first glance, but i havent played around with it much.
- The Elite has good universal use, since it reduces all the weapon skill cooldowns so isnt tied specifically to Hammer.
- The 8 second duration with a maximum of 8 strikes means you really have to keep the pressure on or miss out on recharge. 
- I havent used this elite much, and i dont pvp, so it might be solid or it might be underwhelming, i dont have the experience to decide.
-------------------------------
Catalyst suggestions

 

Firstly, a quite reasonable (i think) suggestion: Swap F5 and Hammer #3, as suggested by many others on the forums. Putting Jade Spheres on Hammer would be a great change in my opinion. this has a number of bonuses:

 

- Hammer #3 gets combo fields! hooray thats one criticism i have instantly fixed!
- Augments are now much easier to set up. you can jump right into combat with a Fire Hammer #3 combo field, pop Relentless Fire for 5s of unblockable attacks for a nice opening burst, as an example. 

- now that Jade Spheres are tied to cooldowns and not cooldowns PLUS energy, you can relocate your Jade Sphere by swapping attunement and slapping a new one down.

- adding a few more combo finishers (like Whirl on Air Hammer #2 for example) would help Hammer to have similar combo capability to the other Ele weapons.

having Swirling Projectiles as the F5 mechanic, plus some changes, would also have a number of benefits:

 

- it's a great ability. encourages players to rotate between attunements rapidly and has a payoff at the end. you can argue about the value of the payoff and what it costs to set up, but there is still a payoff. 

- Making it the F5 skill would allow any Catalyst build to access Swirling Projectiles (like how any Tempest build has overloads and any Weaver can dual attack), in the same way that giving Jade Spheres to the Hammer lets all Ele weapons have access to combo fields.

- instead of having to use a weapon skill, the projectiles could just be created on attunement swap instead, reducing the amount of piano-playing players need to do, and also letting them use weapon skills instead of only using #3 then swapping to the next attunement.

- consider making the projectiles last for 10s, in line with the attunement swap CD. This might not be necessary if its auto-cast on attunement swap, but would allow for some more flexible rotations and more use of weapon skills in between refreshes. could potentially be a trait?

 

ok and now for... potentially impossible but also potentially possible (i have no idea how coding works and ive never seen the GW2 code, even if i did know how coding works.) suggestion:

 

make EVERY combo field created by a Catalyst count as a Jade Sphere when hit by one of their own combo finishers. every single one.

- now Catalyst can be used fully, by any build. Dont want to use Hammer but still want to use the Jade Sphere mechanics? enjoy your Jade Spheres on Dagger Fire #3 and #4, Staff Fire #2 Water #3 Water #5 Air #5 Focus Fire #4. Hell, even Trident Fire #2 Air #5 and Earth #5 (although Trident Earth #5 is a smoke field not poison like the current Jade Sphere). thats right, UNDERWATER JADE SPHERES BABY! 

- play your full class underwater and watch all those Heralds (myself included) get salty that it works right out of the box! of course the downside of this is you are fighting underwater but thats not Catalysts fault so lets move on...

 

- allows lots more integration of the Catalyst traitline with core ele. Jade Sphere traits would be able to trigger from combo fields from any weapon you want to use.

- massively increased access to Jade Spheres for any weapon type, plus the combo finishers that are spread out nicely, mean that setting up your Augments to work is a lot smoother. 

- an obvious downside is you'll have to figure out how to balance Jade Spheres around multiple different weapon types all having access to Jade Spheres though combo fields, which admittedly sounds like a total nightmare.

[Emberheart.8426]

There is too much wrong with this specialization right now, but let me start with the positives.

 

Positives

-I really like the concept of building an elite spec that is based on making combos more useful again, and the name catalyst fits that perfectly.

-The visuals on the sphere skills look pretty neat, as well as some skills like wind storm and the grand finale skills.

-This is a spec that finally gives elementalists access to completely new effects, and there are plenty. A poison field, quickness, resolution, resistance... You even get to access the rest of the elemental fields on every weapon, potentially expanding versatility instead of inhibiting it like weaver did.

-Speaking of versatility, the empowerment can help any build, which is nice. I especially like that it favors celestial too.

-Most of the traits are really solid and have the potential to be quite strong while not being overloaded, but they are held back by other aspects of this spec. I really like elemental epitome in particular. When I saw this trait in the livestream I was so hyped because I knew the implications. It was what I didn't even know that I wanted.

-Hammer having mixed ranges is nice and has potential to work, but again is being held back by other design issues in the spec.

 

Negatives

-By far the biggest issue is the sphere mechanic. The concept is great, but the execution is abysmal. Development on this has been far far too conservative for it to be of any worth. The PvP version was even split, but why? Even the PvE version would be almost useless there. It's gated behind an unnecessary energy mechanic and a fairly lengthy cooldown while being hammer's only access to combo fields. You cannot move it without having to start from scratch and it feels really punishing to use. It really seems to me that you saw what you did with scourge as an area denial spec and you got demoralized of ele having anything close to that. It's worse in every single way imaginable. You have one area vs 3, it cannot be maintained as long as shades, you don't get an AoE around you, it doesn't do much to enemies... I could go on, but you went out of your way to make sure that it didn't have a single benefit from the quintessential area denial spec's myriad of pros. 

 

-Hammer has some pretty neat skills, but it suffers a little due to various factors. There are a few skills in there that take a tad too long to activate and it has no access to fields on its own. Having no fields would have been no problem if the jade sphere worked in a rational way though. 600 range feels pretty awkward to play with. Would it really be that broken if air and fire were 900 range? Just make it have true hybrid range, the skill animations already work for this. Also, this weapon is very stingy with finishers considering that it has no access to fields. It has 3 blasts and a leap, which sounds good on paper until you realize that their cooldowns are fairly long so they don't really work well with what the spec is trying to accomplish. The core weapons are just way better at providing reliable finishers. The fix for this is easy though. Just make all the whirls into whirl finishers. I am not sure how Cleansing Typhoon, Hurricane of Pain, and Whirling Stones are not whirl finishers. Then you also have the Grand Finale mechanic, which looks fun but is way too punishing with only 5 seconds to pull it off. The lack of combo fields and the grand finale give you pointless things to juggle, which prevents you from actually using your attunements in a flexible way. Instead you need to make sure to do all the busywork instead of responding to the fight.

 

-The Utility skills are all underwhelming. At least hammer has some nice skills in its kit, but there is no utility that I would ever use. These feel as if you split them in half and gated half of them behind spheres. Even if they did not require the extremely clunky sphere I would probably not bother using them. Well, maybe I would consider using the unlockable sometimes, but I am not sure about even that. I am very disappointed that we got yet another uninspired elite skill.

 

-There are not many traits that are inherently bad. Most of them look bad because the sphere mechanic has an abysmal implementation, while it's supposed to hold these together. The only two traits that I think are inadequate are Hardened Auras and Empowering Auras. Just like with the Grand Finale mechanic they take your focus off being flexible. The duration on these is waaaay too short. I get that you want combos and auras to be a core part of the spec, but this is not necessary. You still have to build them up, and even without them there is enough payoff for combos. You get a potentially good aura, a stack of empowerment, and you can even trigger a core aura trait for aura share or boons.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Ganathar.4956

[Zunki.3916]

34 minutes ago, Astraeus.4982 said:

 

[90s cd] Elite skill: Weapon skills cooldown reduction. The effect lasts 8 seconds, and you have to strike your target every second to get the max. 8 sec of cooldown reduction on your weapon skills (1s interval on the skill effect). So, if you happen to disengage or your target distances itself from you, the skill is useless. Such an "elite" skill. Where has the creativity gone? This is such a boring mechanic.

This is intended.

In almost every spec you would prefer a 4th utility skill over any elementalist elite skill. So as the cata utility skills are probably the worst so far, the elite had to step up and be even worse than what we are used to.

Perfectly balanced and in line with the overall class concept 🤡

[azarhal.3086]

1 hour ago, Usagi.4835 said:

So then what separates the two in this regard (aura generation/enhancing the effects of auras)? What else is really that new besides the sphere, stat boosts, and the emphasis on fields and finishers as a mechanic?

Catalyst is pretty much core Elementalist with fields moved from the Hammer to the F5 skill which makes them harder to access. The only new thing is actually the Hammer 3 skills which shouldn't be on Hammer because that means you don't have access to it on other weapons. And those little balls needs a lot of work right now...

They should have made the Catalyst closer to symbol Guardian where their weapon create fields that pulse boons* that they can combo and the F5 is the "virtue" which change based on attunement. Those would even fit better with the name augments and they could still be created by the Jade Sphere(s) and use energy to upkeep. Then revamp the traits to deal with the augments instead of auras and switch the utilise to something else.

*they could add a Catalyst trait for this so other weapons aren't penalized.

Edited September 22, 2021 by azarhal.3086

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

Introduction:

I hereby present my feedback on the Catalyst elite spec for the Elementalist class after an attempt at a pretty deep dive into the spec and its mechanics. I will divide my feedback into several sections and will try to look at things from  a PvE perspective. I think the hammer-wielding Catalyst will be able to provide some interesting gameplay of its own...after Anet goes back to the drawing board with it.

There is no way to say this nicely, so I will just be blunt: This spec is a mess.
My main worries have to do with the F5 mechanic, meh utility skills,  the clunkyness of support options and the lack of fields and combo finishers on the hammer.

The PvE DPS numbers:

The damage seem to be there for benchmarks, but the power benchmark gets carried by conjures and glyph of storms on a big hitbox, meaning elementalist players in high end PvE will be forced to do almost the exact same thing they have been doing since 2012 while almost never reaching these numbers in realistic combat situations. It seems like elementalist players are forced to play the piano once again, only to reach similar numbers AT BEST, when compared to other specs. Should Anet one day decide to hit Conjured Weapons or Glyph of Storms with the nerf bat, it will mean all power elementalist builds, including Catalyst, will be deleted from high end PvE. It might be too late for other ele specs, but perhaps Catalyst can be saved by being allowed to stand on its own, and not fall in the exact same Conjure&Glyph trap again.

Possible issue with the theme:

It’s not completely clear to me what the theme is to be honest. We have the orbs on the hammer which is a completely self-contained mechanic ( and which is buggy and unrewarding to maintain), we have the different combo traits and an aura focus, and then we also have our Jade Sphere with Wells that are powered by energy that seems to function like adrenaline. The spec does feel like it is all over the place. It  has many possible mechanics at once, but seems to never really choose one of them, which means that as a consequence it feels messy. I have trouble feeling like the Catalyst, while feeling more like a discount Tempest/discount Scrapper/Discount ele 2.0 with a tacked on adrenaline-like mechanic from the nearest Walmart.
The spec misses an identity of its own.

 

Possible issue with the Mechanic:

 

Elemental Empowerment:
I think we can call this buff somewhat of a mechanic, considering a lot of the Catalyst is built around getting this to stack as high as possible. I am okay with it. A boost to all stats helps damage, hopefully also helps to get rid of at least some squishyness that ele always suffers from, and it may just be what is needed to elevate a build with Celestial stats out of the meme status (at the very least for WvW, PvE would depend on what a possible support Catalyst needs gearwise). What can I say, I like juggling buffs through active gameplay. Unfortunately that is also one of the few positive things I can say about the Catalyst.

 

 F5 Sphere/Wells

Let’s start with how the F5 is situated in a weird spot in the UI, almost hidden at the far right. Not to mention how small of an icon it has, making it hard to gauge the energy build-up on the top of said icon. Could this perhaps get a druid celestial avatar treatment, or at least a warrior adrenaline/revenant energy UI?
Other issues I have is that these wells that your F5 throws out are static, cannot really be traited for effectively, cannot be moved when placed, and how you lose all energy when cancelled.

 

Some Proposals(Some of this should be baseline, and other things can perhaps be done through traits):

 

1.    Allow us to move the F5 field around, either make it follow us or give us a way to move the field after it has been placed. Ele has always suffered from foes walking out of its fields, and now they can simply walk out of your elite spec mechanic?

 

2.    Cancelling the field should not make you lose all energy. Energy already takes ages to build up as it is, the current implementation of losing all energy when cancelling early is overly punishing. Fix how energy works or just get rid of the idea completely. It takes ages to build up, overly punishing when cancelled early, and in open world stuff dies before you have a chance of fully charging it ( not to mention how this implementation will make sure that we will never see a dedicated quickness Catalyst build, because it cannot give quickness from the get go).

 

3.    If you want this to act as a pseudo adrenaline system with pseudo bursts, then allow us to spam the fields like a warrior can spam their F1 skill. These sphere fields are pretty much the only reliable combofields the Catalyst has, which is saying a lot about a spec where comboíng has been made very important.

 

4.    I want to interact with that Jade Sphere/Well thing, and not just have it be a fire and forget field when my meter is full. Aside from being quite passive that also comes close to it just being tempest overloads without the tempest damage, longer downtime but less channeling time. It feels like it really needs to fleshed out a bit more, through both basic functions and traits. The Sphere has potential, so make use of it so it is not going to feel like a poor man’s Tempest or Core Elementalist 2.0 or a weird Scrapper.

5.    Why do I have the Spheres project these beautiful creatures, only for them not do anything but look pretty? That’s a waste of such beauty. You are the catalyst, so be a catalyst for their power somehow. Just a field that I can’t really do much with is...disappointing. Let them do an attack, let them empower me...do something.

6.    Make me choose when I switch attunements if I want the active F5 field to switch over or not.

7.    The field is extremely small. Especially if you want to consistently give out boons on a more supportive build, the radius needs to be increased.

8.    The current usage of the Jade Sphere is..boring. Press F5, get field. Done. Give me that “wow that is awesome” factor. Give the Sphere more interesting characteristics, or make the fields it give special in a way, but give it SOMETHING. This is problematic.

9.    Perhaps make the swirly hammer orbs the mechanic instead, or at least tied to the mechanic. It’s what most of us thought when we saw the trailer. Jade sphere, swirly balls, etc.

10. Perhaps we could get some bonuses for good field placements, bonuses depending on if we stand in the field, our foe, our allies, etc.

 

On paper this mechanic looks cool, but its current implementation is a total trainwreck. I don't like to be this negative, I WANT TO LIKE ALL NEW SPECS, but this might need to go back to the drawing board or at least get some massive changes.

Possible issue with the hammer skills:
A big issue is the hammer does not just feel slow, but that it only has 3 reliable combo finishers in its 20 skills, all on 20s recharge or more. For a spec that gets so much out of combo finishers and auras that feels a bit lacking. The lack of fields that weapon generates is also very worrying, a hammer Catalyst seems to almost completely rely on their F5 for fields. I am also not sold on the swirly balls and their 5 second durations. Lot of setup, not enough pay-off. It might be better on dagger/x sets, but if I need to give up on my spec weapon to get the most out of my spec, that spec weapon has problems.

Something positive (I am trying): What I do like a lot about the hammer is how many skills get better effects when you meet certain conditions, like all attacks of a skill hit, inflict X, if target suffers from X and you hit with Y, get Z, the more you hit with A, the more of B happens. To me that rewards skillful usage of your arsenal and I am 100% in favor of it.

 

Proposal:

Make sure that the hammer is a viable option that is not held back by a lack of damage or finishers/fields. Certain buffs will not be possible to maintain without someone else babysitting you (aura’s for example). Make people want to use the hammer, and if possible make way for a playstyle that makes elementalist players do something else than 90% the same thing they already did on Core Ele, Tempest and even partially on Weaver. The swirling orbs are currently almost impossible to maintain, miss a lot, and do not have enough pay-off. Up their durations, effects, damage...

 

Possible issues with Utility skills:
 Soothing Water:
It’s has similarities with Ether Renewal. Just with a longer recharge time, condi cleanse only happening near a water sphere, and some higher raw healing in a shorter channel. It’s functional. Not very exciting.

 Relentless Fire:
15% damage boosts are fun...but it only lasts 5 seconds. Perhaps this is good for helping a massive burst during very short phases in fire attunement, but that feels the opposite of what the Catalyst seems to be designed to do, which is to rack up boosts over time first. You are not going to get all your juggle buffs going during short phases. It works, but it contradicts the entire spec for me.

Shattering Ice:
An ele’s discount One Wolf Pack. And nobody will probably use it because Lightning Hammer and Glyph of Storms are higher damage, and this skill cannot compete with Relentless Fire.

 Invigorating Air:
Aside from the recharge time this almost looks like a worse version of Tempest’s ‘Eye of the Storm’ shout. Perhaps the endurance regeneration IF an air Jade Sphere is present makes it worthwhile in PvP, but for PvP I am not impressed.

Fortified Earth:
So we are just going to do nothing except block 3 seconds and perhaps get barrier if near an Earth Jade Sphere? Even with 3000 barrier, which on a 10k base health pool may look very impressive, is this really worth it? Perhaps a tank ele somewhere is very happy right now with this skill, but I am not.

Elemental Celerity:
Very simple: This is crap. An elite slot is precious. In PvE you are most likely going to be boon capped or prefer Fiery Greatsword/Fire Elemental, and you will probably find yourself under alacrity in organized content, meaning the few seconds this might shave off your cooldowns will be close unnoticeable. What is this elite supposed to achieve?

 

Proposal:
Redesign this into something worthy of elite status. As a matter of fact, I think all augments could really use another pass by the design and balance team. None of them feel truly impactful or gamechanging to me.

 

Some Ideas/Proposals

Ironic as it is, but the shouts from Tempest fit the Catalyst better in terms of synergy than its own Augment skills, and that is worrying. Considering how these augments seem to interact with the Jade Sphere, perhaps this is the moment to re-introduce the GW1 doublecast spell funcionality? Things like GW1 Double Dragon were cast simultaneously on both you and your opponent/ally for certain effects/effects when targeting an ally/foe also under the effect, or additional effects if the effects of you and your foe overlapped. Just throwing on ‘the table’ as a possible idea. Or make augments have effects on allies, with better effects in certain sphere-fields, or make them help the Catalyst to get easier aura/combo-finisher access, but make them interesting. Right now only Harbinger has utility skills that are less interesting.

 

Possible issues with Catalyst Traits in general:
The traits for Catalyst are a mess. They are not one-dimensional, but there is no clear focus, or it focuses on things that feel copied from existing specs, or something that does not fit the Catalyst. There is a big focus on aura's, a Tempest thing, yet Catalyst lacks ways to reliably get them. The traits focus on comboíng, yet its elite-spec weapon lacks fields and finishers. There is zero support for either Hammer or augments. There is no interaction with energy or any way to interact with the F5 in a meaningful way. These are a lot of traits put together that may look okay in a vacuum, but don't work well with each other, the synergy is often missing for me. Aura trait, have issues getting auras. Want me to combo-finish, my spec weapon has issues finishing. Supposed to be a strong melee presence, has issues staying in melee. You cannot just smack 3-4 random ideas together and expect it to become a cohesive elite spec.

 

Issues with Catalyst specific traits:

Hardened Aura’s:
Looks mostly fine to me in essence, but I do wonder if 6s is enough time to keep the buff going, it could perhaps do with a longer duration. The fact that the Catalyst has a hard time to create any aura’s is also an issue. Sure you can play dagger/dagger/focus, but it’s not great design if you invalidate your entire spec weapon.

 

Proposal:

This trait certainly isnt OP. In fact, it might be underpowered.  Give this trait possibly a longer duration, and give Catalyst a way to more reliably create aura’s and combo’s without having to resort to specific weapon sets. This is a trait, thus part of the core design, meaning the Catalyst must be able to create the conditions to make use of this trait on its own, with just the spec mechanics and weapon.

 

Vicious Empowerment:
It’s okay I suppose, but I do wonder if you have enough disables and immobilizes to effectively make use of this trait. I think hammer gives you 2 disables and 1 immobilize from air and earth respectively. Would be a shame if this becomes another spec that does not use the spec’s own weapon.

 

Proposal:

Make sure there is enough disable and immobilize available in the Catalyst it’s design to make this worthwile.

Energized Elements:
2s of fury and 2 energy when swapping elements. That would be great if you had the 3s recharge attunement swapping of a weaver, but we are looking at 10s attunement swapping on the Catalyst. That does not really sound like it’s worth it to me, it’s almost as if this trait comes straight out of 2012 in terms of power. It might be better to scrap this and replace it.

 

Proposal:

Since the trait seems energy/well focused, perhaps this is a good place for a trait that makes your fields follow you/give a bonus at max energy/make fields do X/regain energy upon cancelling a well.
Something to fix some of the huge issues the F5 mechanic currently has.

 

Elemental Empowerment:
3 permanent stacks of Elemental Empowerment during combat. I suppose that’s fine, that means you only need to maintain 7 yourself to hit the maximum cap of 10 stacks. Only thing I would do is change the name. You already introduce elemental empowerment in the adept traits, and now you also give it with a minor trait that has the same name?

 

Proposal:

Since it’s an in battle buff and all Elemental Empowerment traits seem to have Empowerment in it, call it something like Aggressive Empowerment and be done with it.

Empowering Aura’s:
This is a fun trait I think. Rewards DPS ele for consistently applying aura’s to itself, and when you get a new aura it refreshes all stacks of the buff its duration. Good trait, just wondering if a 6s duration isn’t a bit on the short side...and if the Catalyst is ever going to maintain enough stacks of it, especially on hammer. It seems like you can either do a good DPS rotation, or try to get an aura to keep this buff up, but not both. This should complement your DPS rotation, not replace it with an aura rotation, because that means we will choose the DPS rotation.

 

Proposal:

Keep a close eye on how the duration works out and buff said duration if it is unfun to maintain it.

Evasive Empowerment:
Not really interesting for PvE but perhaps PvP eles like getting rewarded with Elemental Empowerment and Vigor upon dodging/evading. Reluctant on proposing changes here because I do not want to break something on the PvP side without noticing.

Spectacular Sphere:
I feel this is complete and utter crap. This feels like it could be another a trait from 2012 to me, it seems that weak.

 

Proposal:

Use this slot as another way to enhance the Well and support part of the Catalyst.

 

 Again think stuff like make wells follow you around, increase their radius, allow the effect to continue pulsing even when you switch attunements, etc. Hell, for all I care you give those beautifully creatures we see in the projected field an attack that does damage/conditions/give boons to allies.

Or allow us to lay down multiple fields, spawn an aura or one of those hammer swirly orbs when we lay down a field/when a field is done, we get X bonus if we are in our field and X+X bonus if our enemy is also inside of it (like how GW1 doublecast spells/enchantments worked) there are plenty of possibilities.

 

Another completely different trait suggestion: For a spec that want to combo-finish this often, I am a bit surprised that there isn’t a trait that improves the effect of your finishers. Blast for more X than usual, Whirl for more of Y than usual, or give us effect A and B instead of X and Y. For a combo-reliant spec like the Catalyst I thought it was a bit surprising that the combo’s themselves in terms of effects don’t change at all.

Elemental Epitome:
Obviously this makes auras double dip since they already have Empowering Aura’s. But that does rely on combo’ing, and hammer seems to only have 3 combo’s ( 2x blast and 1x leap).  I mean you can make this work with other elementalist weapons, but that might mean you are not going to run hammer in a DPS Catalyst build, and that would be a shame. The trait by itself is fine, just a bit worried about the implications and (lack of) hammer synergy (it seems the solution for this would be to up the amount of finishers on hammer, unless you want to change this trait all together).
So once again: Why do you want me to focus on aura’s when Catalyst in a vacuum has such limited access to aura’s? I am a Catalyst, NOT a Tempest, nor should you be forced into playing with a Tempest just to get the most out of your own traits.

 

Proposal:

More fields. More finishers. More access to aura’s without having to rely on outside sources.

Staunch Aura’s:
Screams PvP to me ( PvP ele might love this when combined with Armor of Earth). Perhaps PvE players might pick this in fights where they get bombarded with extreme crowd control, otherwise it’s not meant for PvE use. But once again, a focus on aura’s while Catalyst has issues with proper access to them.

Empowered Empowerment:
Obviously a DPS buff, but it does nothing until you reach the maximum amount of stacks, and until you do (or if stacks fall off) it does nothing.

 

Proposal:

I would either make it so each stack of Elemental Empowerment simply boosts stats by 2% ( so not just when meeting the 10 stack threshold), or think of another way to add this bonus without beefing up Elemental Empowerment even more. Maybe a Hammer trait that gives a few additional combo finishers and gives a bonus for each of the swirling hammer 3 orbs or something? Those orbs are interesting, yet the spec does nothing with them ( and I would love to see them become a more integral part of the spec).

 

Closing statement

I did not expect the Catalyst to be such a mess after watching the reveal. There is no synergy with its weapon, the F5 mechanic feels tacked on, overly punishing and provides little interaction, it’s utility skills really need to go back to the drawing board, and the traits are all over the place.
 
I would personally also try to find a way to flesh out that F5 interaction a lot more so it feels less like a handicapped Tempest or Core Ele 2.0.

The spec is still not as much of a mess as Harbinger turned out to be (albeit close), but it has serious issues and needs serious work.

I am not saying my solutions are the best or even good ones. But I hope they illustrate the issues I currently have with this spec.

Thanks for reading!

 

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, gandlethorpe.2641 said:

Hammer is basically scepter on steroids

 

It could use a few QoL tweaks, but it's solid.

 

Is it, though?  For reference, here's a clip of condi weaver with 3.5k armor and 18k health (trailblazer) killing the same hydra in half the time.  The build also has extra evades, barrier, and healing on top of its passive sustain through armor.

With Catalyst, I was expecting a fun combo field/aura-focused build with solid sustain and support on top of damage.  You know, like the Chosen specs firebrand, scourge, and renegade all have, but with ele flavor?  In fairness, I haven't put much time into the spec so far, but it doesn't seem to have any of that as far as I can tell.  I think this needs a lot more than "QoL tweaks".  That's my initial feeling on Catalyst.

The jade sphere and utilities don't feel impactful enough and I think the 3 skill needs to be moved off of the weapon skill list.  Hammer skills also feel too slow and there's not enough sustain here for a spec that seems to require going glassy to do any damage.  Maybe I just need more time with it, but it feels like a mess to me so far. 😟

Edited September 22, 2021 by AliamRationem.5172

[Xei Han.8736]

This is honestly a pretty hard one to like.  So many flaws and missteps.

1. Get rid of F5.  There is no good reason you couldn't have reused the mechanic from the previous two ele-specs, where you simply hit the attunement (F1-4) a second time.  Edit: Considering the synergy between auras and combo fields, and the implication that hammer is for melee, why not just have the Jade Sphere move with the ele instead of targeting an area?
2. There is zero incentive to recall your Jade Sphere if you're going to lose all remaining power.  Either preserve the power or get rid of the recall option.  On that topic, why does the Jade Sphere even lose power over time?  Until now, mechanics that lose power have been reserved for features that either use only a portion of the power or where the effect improves.  Things like a necromancer's Life Force are only depleted while being used.  Suggestion: instead or reinventing the wheel, get rid of F5 and reuse the druid's astral force meter to track accumulated catalyst.  Maybe change the meter's color with your current attunement.
3. Elemental Empowerment is a wasted trait.  The only way it becomes useful is if you devote yourself to the whole trait line (middle row of traits) and focus on disable/immobilize, because you need Vicious Empowerment to reach 10 stacks.
4. I actually kept forgetting that the Augment skills existed.  Totally underwhelming, especially when you have to be in a specific attunement and be standing in the right spot to get their full effect.  Too many conditions, too little payoff.
5. I feel like there's a disconnect with Immutable Stone.  It grants an aura based on attunement, but you have to be attuned to earth to activate it in the first place.  It only lasts 1.5 seconds, so it's unlikely that you'll switch attunements before it absorbs its one hit.  A poorly considered skill.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Xei Han.8736

[achronis.3597]

28 minutes ago, Ganathar.4956 said:

Negatives

-By far the biggest issue is the sphere mechanic. The concept is great, but the execution is abysmal. Development on this has been far far too conservative for it to be of any worth. The PvP version was even split, but why? Even the PvE version would be almost useless there. It's gated behind an unnecessary energy mechanic and a fairly lengthy cooldown while being hammer's only access to combo fields. You cannot move it without having to start from scratch and it feels really punishing to use. It really seems to me that you saw what you did with scourge as an area denial spec and you got demoralized of ele having anything close to that. It's worse in every single way imaginable. You have one area vs 3, it cannot be maintained as long as shades, you don't get an AoE around you, it doesn't do much to enemies... I could go on, but you went out of your way to make sure that it didn't have a single benefit from the quintessential area denial spec's myriad of pros. 

 

-The Utility skills are all underwhelming. At least hammer has some nice skills in its kit, but there is no utility that I would ever use. These feel as if you split them in half and gated half of them behind spheres. Even if they did not require the extremely clunky sphere I would probably not bother using them. Well, maybe I would consider using the unlockable sometimes, but I am not sure about even that. I am very disappointed that we got yet another uninspired elite skill.

 

Totally agree with you on the Sphere mechanic being very conservative and not bringing much benefit to the player, and the utilities not being that useful.  It's very frustrating to charge up the sphere and then when you finally do, it starts to lose charge quickly.  Plus, when you use the kitten thing, it doesn't last long!  Totally annoying and really doesn't make me want to use it.  The utilities were a bit meh considering that they are buffed by the sphere we can't use much of.  Hope Anet listens to all the feedback and changes these things.  Other than that, I like the catalyst and can see potential.