Catalyst Feedback Thread

[Archer.4362]

I miss a comment from anet saying thank you for your comments we will take them into account.

[Legalut.6814]

Whelp, a tad late to the party but I struggled for a bit to put on my thoughts in the table. Still hope any comment could add anything to the discussion. FYI, english is not my native language so sorry if I make any typos.

 

When the beta for the catalyst was up I gave some spins to the catalyst thinking less in how it works or how effective it's and rather how it FELT to play as. And while I'm still looking forwards to try it in release, I gotta say it, it felt underwhelming when compared to tempest and weaver. Now, I'm just speaking for myself and maybe I didn't digged deep enough, but while I do love the idea of the catalyst mechanic, seeing how it work and it's utility skills, I kept feeling like something was missing, as in, I didn't felt like it was doing enough to feel more diferent from base ele. I may not be seeing the big picture but I decided to look at the main elements (heh) on the specialization that I feel it had an impact.

 

Hammer:

I will say right away, that I actually love the hammer skills for the most part. The idea of being able to be either mid range or melee depending with the element was a brilliant idea and I'm actually glad to see how the water skills could be used for a decent melee damage build rather than just support. The idea of the skill 3 was neat but can't tell how beneficial it would be in practice as having to swap elements in such a short window could feel a bit wonky with rotations. Having said that, I do have a couple of things to say.

 

• Fire 5 (Molten End): I do get the function and role of the skill, but it does feel quite underwhelming, that may be just a particle effect/animation issue, but it does feel like it lack impact, which it's odd as yes, the skill does hit a lot and gives some neat boons, but it feel like it had good build up but not enough pay off.
• Water 2 (Rain of Blow): I actually love this skill, but the animation does look a bit wonky, granted, that may be my fault as I tested it with an asuran ele (my current ele is asura) so I could forgive that.
• Water 4 & 5: Both skills do look good but I feel the particle effect could be improved? Just make it more unique.
• Air 5 (Shock Blast): It really feel like it could use some work in animation and effect. I like how the skill work but both the projectile and the animation feel like they could be WAY better, seeing the same air bolt of the auto attack leave a little white circle feels very underwhelming.
• Earth 4 (Immutable Stone): Oh boy, well this one I have a lot of issues. I like the idea of a counter skills that generetas an aura based in your current element, but binding it as a weapon with such a short time adds a lot to the reaction issue I mention before with skill 3, but also not only catalyst has a block utility skill, ele has 2 by default (3 is we count conjure earth shield). I would personally give instead something to close the gap as in earth you have nothing but maybe I'm too close minded to see it's utility, but so far, this skill feels like a waste as ele has even better options to gain auras, this is the only skill I would personally fully rework. Oh, also, just reusing the armor of earth effect make it feel way more redundant.
• Earth 5 (Ground Pound): I'm sure many have point out this before, but yeah, this just feel like shock wave (dagger 5) with a diferent name. And honestly, my issue is not with the mechanical effect of the skill, maybe change the inmobilize to a knock down to add, but even then my issue is now with the mechanic, is the visual effect. The explosion animation is pretty much the same, so maybe just changing that could be enough. Maybe instead of a slam and spikes jump, it could be like a crystal or stalagmite spiral, again, I could forgive if the mechanical effect is literally the same but the issue is that it FEEL the same.

 

So, while hammer could use some tweaking, I actually believe is the best part of the spec, but saddly, that's also the issue. Again, this is MY opinion so I may be wrong or stupid or both, but if I decide to make a non hammer build, I feel like I'm removing more than half of the spec. Again, the spec FEELS like is missing something, as in while it could be debated how mechanicly balance it's, playing catalyst doesn't feel like it changed enough for me to be considered a new spec. And that goes into the next two issues.

 

The Jade Sphere:

I LOVE the idea of the sphere in concept, having a multi functional well that changes according to your element and adds boons and a little of dmg base on it is a great idea. But again, it does FEEL underwhelming, when I test it, my first reaction was "That's it?" and this time, I feel the issue is more mechanical than animation or effects. Now granted, I know all of the effects are related to boons and it's hard to get a feel to them unless you're stacking massive buffs which granted, it could be done with this spec. But again, it doesn't feel more potent than an elite utility skill, maybe even less. Also to add the fact that you have to build up energy to make it last make it feel less potent as there's an active action to make it last, it does make you feel like you need to work it up to make it last only to make it work.

 

I may just be bias here, I'll admit it and honestly, I don't hate the mechanic, maybe I'm just not enough of a galaxy brain to see it's power, but seeing it work in action makes the whole spec feel VERY underwhelming, and I guess I would be ok with it if it wasn't by...

 

The utility skills:

I'm gonna be blunt, augments are just stances with extra steps. Again, I don't hate the idea, but the reward and effect of the skills are the biggest blunder at least for me, first of all, the only two skills that really felt like they had a bigger impact were Shattering Ice and Fortified Earth, and even the second one does feel like it has less impact due to what I said before about hammer 4 skill (I would give credit, I actually like the effect of the shield, so kudos to that). But while it bothered me the most was that it didn't felt like the additional effect of the augment added much, as in, yay, Shattering Ice now also... chill... yay?

 

Ok, again maybe I'm not enough of a smarty pants to see how good effects they grant are, and I know that before Relentless Fire, ele has no access to unblockable attacks to there's that. But after seeing such a passive effect with the Sphere, this skills felt less like utility skills and more like passive triggers. Maybe adding more visual or sound effects could add but even then, maybe they could use some rework. Maybe the augments could be like an offensive cantrip kind of skill that adds some unique boons when using in the Sphere (or the other way around too) or it could be like the glyphs, in which the boon or effect of the skill change according to the Sphere. I do know that those things may be a lot of work and I can't tell how realistic it's, but again, I feel this spec need some work and not just in the tweaking numbers section.

 

Conclusion:

I know I will play the spec and give it a chance, heck, I like to do each expansion in their respective new spec so I know I will (With the exception of druid as it's hard to solo with it). But again, when I tried the spec, I didn't feel like my ele was more powerfull. Tempest felt like I was having sudden spikes with my rotation and Weaver felt like I was constantly changing and in the move, Catalyst felt like the less succesfull cousin of Scourge. I know I may had bashed the spec a lot, but I tried to praise it first, I like the hammer skills for the most part and I do enjoy the idea of the playstyle, sorry for being late to the conversation, hope things turn for the best.

 

Have fun ppl.

[pallas.8150]

4 hours ago, Archer.4362 said:

I miss a comment from anet saying thank you for your comments we will take them into account.

To be quite honest I would be willing to bet that they will end up saying that they feel the Catalyst is in a very good place (maybe with a few very minor changes), not that they hear us and will make major overhauls.

[Ragnarox.9601]

They should even change:

Signet of restoration - heal per cast 200 one handed weapon, 400 two handed weapon. 

[Gustaff.6581]

Augments are terrible, why depend in attunement?, also are blunt and simple, there is not like an extra effect, extra mobility, teleport, a barrier, an area skill, etcc, elite augment is also boring, its the same effect as alacrity with more steps.

 

Hammer skills are good except for hammer 3, i just dont like it, maybe the spheres could be an utility rather than a weapon skill.

[Aedil.1296]

3 hours ago, pallas.8150 said:

To be quite honest I would be willing to bet that they will end up saying that they feel the Catalyst is in a very good place (maybe with a few very minor changes), not that they hear us and will make major overhauls.

They will never admit this is garbage. I dont even know why people bother to still provide feedback. It's been YEARS we are asking for changes to Ele (staff!?) and yet we get presented with something clunky AF in an already complicated and fragile class. What upsets and scares me the most is that they thought this was good enough to be shown in a beta. So no, definitely not expecting any changes on catalyst sorry. 

We have precedents where classes took years to get tuned/reworked (scrapper anyone?) 

[Ovark.2514]

I think my biggest issue with the Catalyst is it's crazy focus on auras. My issue isn't even that Tempest is already based around auras, but instead that Auras are really bad for visual noise. This is even worse for competitive modes where split-second decisions have to be made on whether or not to attack. The auras are visually so similar to one-another that players need to look at the status bar of the enemy to see which one is being used; and in the case of the catalyst, it's likely that MULTIPLE are going on at once. While I love the combo playstyle, I think the best solution is to have one of the minor traits change what the result is of creating a combo into something like Might or the unique buff or something-anything but auras.

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

I think a huge problem with the catalyst is that literaly all of its abilities have cast times. They are trying to add cast times to abilities to make them more fair in competitive play, but what this means is that you cannot use them on top of each other. This, combined with very long cast times on some of your bigger attacks (Earth 2 and Air 2 for example), makes Catalyst feel incredibly unresponsive.

 

In the current game's climate, these micro cast times on utilites or the spinning orbs do not mix well with the pace of gameplay. I think the spinning orb activation should not be casted (grand finale is fine having a cast time though). The orb attunement dance would feel much better if they were instant cast.

 

The utilities shouldn't have cast times either (heal and elite are fine). They are practically the same as stances but even worse, because of the area requirements.

 

Hammer

 

I feel like hammer is for the most part fine if you make all the spinning orbs instant cast. It's fine having long cast times but the problem is how they currently lock you out of everything else, making maintaining the buffs very hard unless you have quickness. Your gameplay experience should NOT have to have quickness be mandatory. 

 

Fire

 

Fire feels fine, but just needs more oomph on the skills. Better animation telegraphs and effects, specially on Fire 5. Fire 4 should have a unique ground target marker ALA citadel bombardment, which I'm guessing it will get but we're at beta. I would also really like for it to be a fire field, since we currently have no skill to interact with Persisting Flames. 

 

Water

 

Another one that I feel is fine, having a more offensive weater attunement for once is pretty nice. Just bump up the damage numbers a lil bit so we can have an option of running water attunement as an offensive tool.

 

Air

 

Other than the orbs, I feel like Air 4 should be Air 5 considering their effects. Also, I do not like that Air has 2 ground targetted skills on the same kit that has a skill that propels you backwards at mach speed. Makes them very hard to use together. Air 5 is very underwelming anyway and I'd like to see that skill changed completely.

Air 2 is cool but it feels strange that you're spinning so fast but you're not damaging enemies with it physically. I think it would be interesting if this skill had two damage components, one on the tornado and one on the player, that you could chose if stack on top of yourself for more damage or cast it at range.

 

Earth

 

Animation wise, I feel like the spinning hammer animation would work better on Fire and Air, and the fire auto animation of swinging down the hammer would work better on earth. As in, you're bashing the ground and creating rock spikes. 

Earth 2 should do way more damage for how long it is. Also add a whirl finisher. Finally, earth 4 is a bit too short of a block. The aura mechanic is an interesting idea but can be weird to pull off. I think something like scrapper's hammer 4, gicing you barrier, would work better in this case.

 

Sphere

My biggest problem with the jade sphere is... I often forgot about it. I don't know if it's because I'm not used to having an F5 skill on ele or the incredibly tiny energy bar. If it was bigger like shroud or heat I probably would notice it more often. It also kinda bothers me that the sphere has its own button because there's no reason why the attunements couldn't be used to summon the sphere, kinda like how overloads are mapped to the attunement button, the jade sphere could also be mapped to it. More so considering it's technically an attunement, as it shares cooldown and cooldown reduction from Arcane traitline. Since it also swaps element when you attune, there's no reason to have an extra button for it.

Second, the energy mechanic feels tacked on. If it has a cooldown it shouldn't also cost energy. Pick one of em.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Vennyhedgie.5369

[blp.3489]

I didn't spend enough time playing Catalyst to get into the level of detail that many posters have, but Catalyst seemed to me like they were trying to make a class that was really complicated to play without giving that much reward for it.

 

If we are going to have another melee specialization then make it clear and bold and focused.  With this jade sphere I mark this as MY territory!  Enter if you dare!  As long as you are in the sphere you have the aura corresponding to your attunement.  The aura persists for, say, 5s after you leave or swap attunements so you can build multiple auras.  The duration of Hammer 3 orbs is reset to full every time the orb is in the sphere, i.e. you can keep them up permanently if you stay in or near the sphere.  The other Hammer skills are loaded with combo finishers, especially blast finishers.  The disengage skill takes you back to the sphere if you are outside the sphere and in range, so you can set the sphere some distance in front of you and then leap into it, so it is also an engage skill.  The augment skills allow you to add an additional field to the jade sphere field so that you can have two or more elements active at once or have a double field.  Collapsing the sphere results in a disengage leap backwards.

 

Now you have a straight forward class with a clear focused mechanic and some powerful abilities, but also limitations, and there are significant benefits to using multiple attunements without making things needlessly complicated.  It's a class that fulfills the preview's promises of "jade tech spheres that create concentrated wells of immense power",  that "using their augment abilities within range of the spheres enhances their effects", and, truly makes them a "steady presence in melee combat".  

[Blue Pilot.5648]

I'm late to this party but I tend to agree with most of the sentiments mentioned here and in other forums. So I'll try to not repeat a lot of what has already been said. 

 

The catalyst feels like a poor compromise between two designers; one wanting to remake the Tempest (with aoe fields and auras) and the other wanting to remake the Weaver (melee bruiser with stances/augments), but it lands somewhere in the middle, and not really doing it smoothly.

 

I played it exclusively with the hammer, to experience the full set together, and it took a looong time to click. Once it clicked, the spec felt kinda weak? I struggled to do content I was easily completing when testing any of the other 5 specs revealed so far. The catalyst felt like it had the damage output of a tank with the survivability of a glass canon. 

It's weird because on paper, the spec looked great! Watchin the stream and looking at the tooltips most look really good and interesting, but in practice it felt clunky and it did not have a good flow.

 

The jade sphere. To keep it short, one of the suggestions I've seen floated around I liked, is that it should work like the Scourge's shrouds. It triggers on the targeted location, but also on the catalyst themselves. This would help the class (which is supposed to be very mobile, having both melee and ranged skills on the weapon) feel less shackled to the area of the sphere.

 

Two last things that are kinda silly, but the design feels very counterintuitive:

1. Why is Fire Hammer Skill #5 [Molten End] a melee skill? It should be a mid range cone/column attack a la Rev Hammer #2, to keep it in line with the rest of the fire skills, while also enabling  it to do point blank blast finishers. 
2.  The Augment Invigorating Air. The bonus you get for making it inside of the Air Sphere, is super speed. So you can get out of it faster? This and the elite were my least favorite Augment skills, but this contradiction just took the cake for me. 

 

As an ele main, I was a little disappointed by the catalyst, but then I remind myself that this was a beta! And I see a lot of good suggestions here, so I am hopeful and still excited to play it and see all the improvements once the expansion comes out! 😃

[Zenith.7301]

Another problem that needs to be considered is that with 42-46k benchmarks, much of them largely reliant on large hitboxes, is that Weaver will completely lose its purpose to exist and join Tempest in complete irrelevance.

 

Catalyst should be designed around a quickness scrapper or quickbrand DPS boon support role, so a pure DPS role can be given to Weaver (buff mainhand sword weaver), and a heal support niche (through buffs and changes) can be developed in the Tempest for organized PvE.

 

I'll also be frank. With the deficient defensive toolkit in PvE for ele, mainhand sword weaver and Catalyst need to have the trait increasing vitality to have 15k base HP pools merged into each of their spec minors, or you need to give more accessible survivability to the spec without huge DPS costs, perhaps by improving the strength and reducing the cooldowns of the spec's heals in PvE, and having stronger self barrier and healing aspec in earth and water attunement while improving the DPS of those attunements so your DPS doesn't tank the moment you use them to try to recover from danger.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Zenith.7301

[Thorniss.2301]

Hi all, my hint on a possible rework on the sphere mechanic:

4 spheres available, one for each element; any sphere can be used regardless of the active attunement. When one is used, it lasts x seconds and put the other 3 on a y seconds cooldown. The active sphere can be repositioned before it expires, resetting its duration, at a cost of z seconds cooldown on the other 3 (z>y).

I dont know if the energy mechanic should stay or go.

 

[Juan.6124]

On 9/23/2021 at 6:20 PM, Saetien.4763 said:

(May have been mentioned already) Invigorating Air (stun break) has a 1/2 second cast time - so used this today and casting my stun break was interrupted.
Not sure how many other stun break skills on other classes have a cast time, and if this is normal, but this feels wrong without instant cast like other ele stun breaks. 

p.s agree about all other comments of jade sphere energy mechanics feeling too slow etc

Darkrazor's Daring works the same way but it gives you 1s of stab so you won't get interupted.

[VocalThought.9835]

I think WP is right in YouTube review. Catalyst should have a Shoud-shade like professional mechanic where they could put 1-3 wells down. They could still have to get built up like adrenaline to use, but having one just seems pointless. Plus that whole thing about Jade stone, or whatever, just looks and sounds stupid.

[Aedil.1296]

22 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Another problem that needs to be considered is that with 42-46k benchmarks, much of them largely reliant on large hitboxes, is that Weaver will completely lose its purpose to exist and join Tempest in complete irrelevance.

 

Catalyst should be designed around a quickness scrapper or quickbrand DPS boon support role, so a pure DPS role can be given to Weaver (buff mainhand sword weaver), and a heal support niche (through buffs and changes) can be developed in the Tempest for organized PvE.

 

I'll also be frank. With the deficient defensive toolkit in PvE for ele, mainhand sword weaver and Catalyst need to have the trait increasing vitality to have 15k base HP pools merged into each of their spec minors, or you need to give more accessible survivability to the spec without huge DPS costs, perhaps by improving the strength and reducing the cooldowns of the spec's heals in PvE, and having stronger self barrier and healing aspec in earth and water attunement while improving the DPS of those attunements so your DPS doesn't tank the moment you use them to try to recover from danger.

Revenant - devastation trait line (which is the main dps trait line) - battle scar effect traits. that is just perfect for Ele 😞

Edited October 2, 2021 by Aedil.1296

[Maryenne.1827]

Hello dev team! 

 

I truly loved the idea behind the Catalyst's gameplay so far, but the class clearly needs to be more worked on. Makes sense since this is a BETA, AKA WORK IN PROGRESS, I can’t make a definitive conclusion about the class yet. So here’s the feedback, suggestions and probably a bit of begging from a eight year old Elementalist main:

 

 -The Jade Sphere

This mechanic really needs to be worked more, it has a sweet potential.

I saw myself having to use it with parsimony as if it was some short of elite skill, but like..  it's the main mechanic (I won't use the Tempest's Overloads or Weaver's Dual Skills with such parsimony, for example). The energy build up isn't fluid like Druid's Celestial Avatar or Necro's life force, for example.

The energy build-up takes too long for a complete charge and when you use the Sphere it goes away relatively quick(it's not proportional); the current method is too slow for something that should be used more frequently, maybe add also a passive charge that would work in both out and in combat when the Sphere is not in use? But out of combat stops at perhaps 50% in PvP/WvW(?). In my opinion that would make it feel as a cooldown that you can speed up by doing damage. Plus, you would be able to start raid/strikes/fractals fights with your Sphere Ready, not to mention you would be able to reactivate your sphere after a boss’ phase(Ex.: Cardinal Adina, Dhuum, Sorrowful Spellcaster, Ensolyss, etc).

Plus, it would help a lot to keep the Sphere active longer if you could keep recharging it while you do damage(similar to Reaper's Shroud, where you can still kinda recharge a little when it's in use to stay in Shroud for a bit more).

Also still about the Sphere's recharge/lifetime: the hammer only have finishers, so I need the fields from the Sphere; all those years playing Ele, I learned(self-taught) that combos are part of its (untold)gameplay style; that's present since core and then on Tempest/Weaver. But because of the lack of the presence of the Jade Sphere in the fight(the source of hammer Catalyst's fields) the gameplay feels... incomplete. You have to change to other weapons(ex.: dagger/dagger), for a more consistent Ele gameplay and you basically go back to core Ele until you can use the Sphere again, because even the Augment skills depend on the Sphere being active for their full potential to be available. Thus, you go back to what I said in the start, that the Sphere feels like it's some kind of elite skill, not part of the main mechanic.

The cooldown when you swap attunements and especially the energy loss when you deactivate are unnecessary and, depending on the fight, too frustrating(for the reasons I said above). Having a small cooldown when you deactivate it or when it ends by itself would make a lot more sense(but it still recharges regardless if it's cd or not(?)).

Another thing with the Sphere is: it doesn't move! Please, please! Make it some way for the Sphere move! Even if it's by command(teleport to you or aoe target) or by following you. Like I already said, that's the main source of fields and boons, it can't just stay stuck in a place chillin like a turret while I fight at the other side of the fight area. AGAIN, it doesn't feel like an Ele class mechanic but rather an elite skill such as Weave Self.

So, this would leave F5 to deactivate/activate the Sphere and then a F6 be a moving command(either teleport to you, like the Ranger's spirits, or aoe target like Revenant’s Ventari Tablet). But if the Sphere moves with you, F5 would stay like it is.

 

-The hammer and Augment Skills: 

I really liked the idea of the hammer being half melee half ranged, it’s really nice to have distance options when you don’t have weapon swap in combat. But please, give more range to the fire and air skills! Like 1200 for the skill 1 and 900 for the rest. 

The cast of Wind Slam is too slow for a ranged skill 1.

The Circular Projectiles skill is basically Weave Self with extra steps, it totally looks like an Ele’s utility skill rather than a weapon skill. Take it out of the hammer skills and make it as perhaps an elite skill(?), and then a fusion of Elemental Celerity and Shattering Ice (ex.: “Your successful attacks will trigger an additional strike on nearby enemies. If this is activated in range of your sphere, gain a boon(or perhaps an aura) based on the current element.). By making this, the 3rd skills are free to something more useful as a weapon skill... maybe more fields to be used while the sphere is out? More finishers? More self/group support skills? More AoEs?

 

-The traits:

Staunch Auras: Not just grant Stability but also barrier. When you grant an Aura to an ally, also grant Stability and the barrier.

Empowered Empowerment: Not just the buff of Elemental Empowerment, but when you have max stack of it either your damage charges the Sphere a bigger amount than normal or your attunements recharges faster. Please, take out or minimize the alacrity dependency in end-game content like Weaver has it.

Sphere Specialist: instead of increasing boon duration, decrease their time a bit(this can be compensated with equipment) and make the field of the Jade Sphere be bigger and affect up to 10 people.

 

 

That's all I could think for now and thanks for your time reading this!

Cheers!

Edited October 3, 2021 by Maryenne.1827
small formating fixes

[Xanadrine.4352]

On 9/29/2021 at 8:50 PM, Aedil.1296 said:

They will never admit this is garbage. I dont even know why people bother to still provide feedback. It's been YEARS we are asking for changes to Ele (staff!?) and yet we get presented with something clunky AF in an already complicated and fragile class. What upsets and scares me the most is that they thought this was good enough to be shown in a beta. So no, definitely not expecting any changes on catalyst sorry. 

We have precedents where classes took years to get tuned/reworked (scrapper anyone?) 

I have to sadly agree with most of this. Im so disappointed in catalyst, they had the chance to make ele really shine and stand out instead of another melee dogpile spec that really should be using range and evades as a spec instead of trying to go toe to toe as melee. Everything is melee that matters and its getting old, something needs to change in class design. But wait what burns me is thief looks to be getting scepter! For crying out loud thief will be a more magic caster class that ele!

Edited October 3, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[Mogsterfortytwo.6712]

This is going to be long (I know, I already wrote it!), but I can't help mucking about where I see the problems, with the added challenge of using as few new animations/mechanics as possible!

 

Beta Feedback

 

Jade Sphere

Good concept in theory, but the energy requirement, cool-down plus losing all energy on recall feels like you really don’t want us to have access to it. This is a common theme across the spec, particularly traits. If we can get it up before the fight is over (not always possible in open-world!) access to new toys like Resolution (I main Ele and honestly didn’t know this was a thing before the livestream) and Quickness is nice, but the requirement to stay in attunement doesn’t play well with hammer 3 skills. The small size doesn’t really help matters, either. For a spec based around the concept of combos (with a mechanic that is essentially a combo field), it really has poor access to combo fields (and finishers) when using the hammer. This is especially noticeable compared with Scourge’s similar mechanic and immediate access to its big circle of doom. As a side-note, learn the difference between turtle and tortoise. Three shiny new models and one reused mount of a similar creature?

 

Hammer

With a few niggles, I like the hammer skills. As many have said, the #3 needs a much greater duration. As it stands, the style of play it currently favours reduces the value of the buffs each gives as we try to get them all lined up and blasted off. Also, we need a frank discussion on the term “circular projectiles”. That’s a bad name.

As many have also said, the hammer features a disturbing lack of combo finishers for a spec so focused on them. For individual skills, the one engage (Crashing Font, W4) is also the only heal (why are we jumping in if we need a heal?) and a combo leap finisher (not useful as either a. we don’t have energy built up to have our one field out, or b. our one field is so small the chances of the stars aligning and a target being in the field and this attack actually hitting in the field are pretty remote). So many of the skills would be perfect for whirl combo finishers without additional justification needed.

The mixed range is nice and is something that Elementalist has struggled with for the duration of the game, but the longer range on fire and air could do with being a little longer, say 800 - 900. Saying that it feels like the attunements give flavour to the hammer skills, rather than being completely different each time, but only in the majority of cases. Fire feels like an outlier with 4 & 5 not really fitting the pattern; Triple Sear feels like there should have been a movement skill, while Molten End is a melee blast finisher, but on a ranged attunement? I could accept #4 if #5 was a ranged finisher.

Only one skill out of twenty (the afore-mentioned Molten End) gives any boons. Even then it’s 2 might and a smidgen of fury, boons Elementalist can already have easy access to, but will be an irrelevance in any group content.

Melee range skills could use a bit of a damage boost. Making the traditionally defence-based attunements melee focused is a cool idea, but they feel weak for the slower speed of the hammer and provide little sustain once you are there. Give the Water auto Regen somewhere, Earth some bleed and possibly Protection on #2, or on the auto chain that somehow isn’t there?

 

Heal

Arcane Brilliance is just better in melee and is also a blast finisher. This just doesn’t compete with core skills.

 

Utilities

The concept of Augments sounds interesting on paper, but these utilities feel like they are all supposed to be part of the rotation, rather than as-and-when you need them get-out-of-jail-fee. Combined with their sphere requirement ensures they are never going to be best in slot. Honestly, I feel like they are a single Glyph skill split into four with extra steps. Utility skills need to provide utility; these are essentially just extra weapon skills.

 

Elite

Reducing cool-downs to active weapon skills while giving a few seconds of a boon we have many ways to access already on a 90 second CD is really poor. Compare to the Bladesworn equivalent; restores a charge to all profession skills with ammo mechanic on a 30 second cd.

 

Traits

Overall, the trait-line for Catalyst appears to be pretty well thought out and avoids the mistake of relying too much on any single core traits to function – there are good reasons to pick any of the core lines to support Catalyst (Persisting Flames issues with Jade Sphere not-withstanding) and this is a good thing. I won’t cover all of them, because most will function I think as intended when the Jade Sphere access/duration issues are sorted.

 

Hardened Auras/Empowering Auras/Staunch Auras

Decent on paper, but with three major issues; 1 Tempest already does the ‘aura thing’; this is not new or interesting! 2 Auras are not easy to get or fun to maintain. 3 A melee spec needs defences immediately, not 30 seconds after getting downed to a big ol’ burst/spike of damage.

 

Vicious Empowerment

Only activates on Hammer Air 5, Earth 5 and Downstate-Attunement 3, all of which are on huge cool-downs.

 

Elemental Empowerment

Non-wipeable boons are a great solution to the squishiness problem, but I don’t think the implementation quite works. As it stands, this (combined with the aura stuff) is three extra numbers to manage on an already complex class.

 

Summary

Overall, a lot of ideas that just don’t quite mesh together, or feel they are stepping on the toes of Tempest, Weaver or both. It feels like the developers accept the need to make Elementalists less squishy in combat (in a different way to previous specs), but then made the entire rotation built around maintaining that (and arguably failing in that task) rather than building a class that could take advantage of additional tankiness in a fun way. As it stands, the primary enemy in any fight is maintaining Elemental Empowerment; if actual foes die too that’s a bonus. It needs a lot of work and some redesign, but nothing that can’t be accomplished in the time remaining (possibly even the fourth beta). Also, the Jade Sphere is technology. Can we talk about how Cantha has built the only portable device ever designed to drain the battery, instead of conserve it, when switched off? At no point does it ‘feel’ like technology; just a glowing magic ball of magic that occasionally shows up over a brief field. If I’m meant to be channelling my magic through it to focus it, why doesn’t it feel like that’s what I’m doing? Not even the fluff meshes with the spec!

 

 

What I Would Do

 

This is entirely how I would continue the development of Catalyst, were it down to me. I doubt everyone would agree and that’s OK too. The basic idea is to double down on a particular aspect (I chose Energy) and expand on that as it is obviously not used by core or previous e-specs so can give some unique cohesion to the current jack-of-all-mechanics, master of none spec without introducing new techs that don’t currently exist in the game.

 

Jade Sphere/Energy

Energy is in a really strange place and I would double down on it! Jade Sphere can be placed at any time, regardless of energy level. Energy automatically begins at 50% and drains slower, but can be maintained in combat in the same way it is built up now. At 0 energy the Sphere stops pulsing boons, but does not immediately deactivate unless the Elementalist is out of combat, instead remaining as a static field. Make it bigger, akin to Scourge’s single well at 100% energy, getting smaller the less energy it has down to its current size at 0%.

Recall Jade Sphere instead relocates the Sphere to your location for a small energy cost (on a short CD).

Switching attunement costs a small amount of energy.

At zero energy, the sphere has a short timer before it disappears, followed by another short timer before it may must be re-deployed. Incentivise keeping energy up.

Add some light visual indicator the energy is being channelled; an etheric chain or something when we are generating energy that links back to the sphere (helpful if you get turned around, too). Something visually like Guardian Symbols and line targeted indicators had a baby.

 

Hammer

In addition to the above; get some sustain boons on there, #2 skills ideally in Earth & Water.

A bit more damage particularly in melee to counter how slow it is.

More combo finishers.

#3 Skills: remain until you switch attunement, after which they begin the 5 second timer. Jade Sphere boons (looking at you, Quickness) requires you to stay in an attunement for a period; Hammer 3 punishes that as is. This should solve the existing duration problem and its poor interaction with the Jade Sphere without removing that style of play.

The pay-off of grand finale is not worth it compared to the basic skills, or what it takes to get there. What if grand finale instead transferred active #3 effects to your jade sphere and started their timer (allowing you to continue to maintain them by attunement switching and hitting #3 a couple of times). While active (and maintained) on the jade sphere, each element adds its sphere effect to the pulse, while removing its regular benefit from the Elementalist. Hammer finds an instant niche for its ability to maintain multiple sphere boons in piano mode and even a couple in casual mode.

Change the name of “Circular Projectiles”. Change them visually to orbit the Ele at different ranges and call it a Constellation. Get with your theme already!

 

Fire

Fire 4 is interesting, but a movement skill would be nicer to have; possibly something akin to blending it with burning retreat that instead of a line drops three mini blast finishers along its path? Call it “Chain Eruption”. And FYI “Sear a path to burn your enemies” is not an accurate description of this skill as it stands.

Fire 5 needs to be a ranged version; insert a culturally appropriate ‘meteor hammer’ joke/attunement inappropriate Thor joke.

 

Water

Water 2 should be the heal if you’re serious about ‘steady melee presence’.

Water 4 is a strange place to have a heal. I’d have it place a geyser for some long duration area regen instead.

Water 5 should be a whirl finisher.

 

Air

Air 2 feels chunky, but also strange given the whirling hammer does nothing to enemies it hits. Whirl finisher at Ele or target location, or both.

Air 5 is the new fire grab; fine when it hits but tiny AoEs with a cast time don’t feel great/reliable with all the movement in the game. Maybe blast at target location with a slightly higher stun duration on primary target in PvE. Let’s just throw the hammer at the target to stun them, like Thor White Mantle Knights already do (but faster). Chuck it down and call a lightning bolt to stun all nearby. Recall skill with a small knockback to unfortunates between the Ele and their hammer.

 

Earth

Earth 1 needs a chain that includes bleeding or protection. Honestly just copy the Water 1 chain.

Earth 2 just feels slow and weak. Earth skills as a whole only having one defensive option for the defence attunement is poor and needs more utility to be worth spending any time in. I would roll the fortified earth augment into this while possibly lowering the barrier gained.

 

Heal, Utilities & Elite

Back to Energy. Cantha has a lot of GW1 players interested and GW1 Ele was all about energy storage (its profession mechanic). Basing the Utilities on this (and its range of skills) would be a welcome nostalgic nod for many and would fit the name ‘Augment’ better too while being more coherent with the rest of the class. If Energy is a part of the elite mechanic, do something with that! I’d make Utilities all generate energy; essentially the same mechanic as Harbinger’s Elixir skills. Augments are skills with ammo, have a short duration effect and generate energy based on how successful they were.

 

Heal:      Aura of Restoration; ammo (3), heal an amount based on the energy generated while active. Breaks Stun.

Utilities:

Glowing Gaze; ammo (2), attacks are unblockable for 5 seconds and deal increased damage to burning targets. Generate energy for each burning target hit.

Glowing Ice; ammo (2), Cure Conditions over time. Generate energy for each condition removed.

Shock Arrow; ammo (2), Projectile bounces between targets; stunning Vulnerable targets. Generate additional energy for each target stunned.

Glowstone; ammo (2), Block attacks for 3 seconds. Generate additional energy for each attack blocked.

Elite:      Over the Limit; ammo (2), Applies Quickness and Alacrity and increases the cap on Energy by 50%, but drains energy faster. Effect ends when energy is fully depleted. The ‘catalyst’ part of “Catalyst” that catalyses; i.e. speeds up the reaction. How are actually new GW1 Ele elites better/more interesting than GW2 Ele elites?

 

Traits

Changes here are to reflect and tie-in to the energy mechanic. Top-line traits play into a slower, sticking with an attunement playstyle and building energy high, middle stays with a faster attunement-hopping concert pianist performance that thrives on managing energy more closely, while the bottom maintains it’s focus on supportive play with the jade sphere; energy is good, but is more concerned with just maintaining it.

 

Hardened Auras/Empowering Auras

Stacks do not degrade, but are based on total Energy. This allows some built in survivability on entering combat that is currently lacking, but the value will fluctuate during fights. Players can focus on energy upkeep as a single MORE VISIBLE THAN AT PRESENT resource rather than making every fight into the same ‘keep this thing going’. Probably change the name to reflect the removal of auras, something like ‘Jade Guardian/Jade Empowerment.

 

Vicious Empowerment

Basically, it doesn’t come up enough to be worth a trait slot.

Jade Elements; Gain might and fury when you strike a foe within your Jade Sphere. Move to the bottom line.

 

Energised Elements

Changed to fit with the energy mechanic and the more active aura/combo playstyle.

                Energised Feedback; Gain Elemental Empowerment (1) when you switch attunements. Jade sphere vents more energy on switching attunement. Move to middle line.

 

Elemental Empowerment

Gains the “When this triggers, the durations of all stacks are refreshed” line. Reduce base duration.

 

Staunch Auras

Gain stability when you have over 75% energy.

 

Spectacular Sphere

Also occurs when relocating energised sphere.

 

Sphere Specialist

Boons applied by jade sphere have increased duration, based on 50% of total energy at time of pulse. Augments cast within your sphere have an additional effect;

Aura of Restoration:         Vigour (5 seconds)

Glowing Gaze:                   Quickness (1 ½ seconds)

Glowing Ice:                       Resistance (2 seconds)

Shock Arrow:                     Fury (3 seconds)

Glowstone:                         Aegis (4 seconds) ~note skill effect negates the first 3 seconds effectively.

Over the Limit:                  Stability (3 seconds)

 

The Trade Off

There allegedly must be one and at present, it doesn’t exist. My thought would to increase Attunement cool-down by a percentage of total energy; the more energy you have, the longer Attunements take to refresh.

As the Catalyst is channelling their magic through the sphere, the more energy they are channelling, the longer it takes to convert it to a new type of energy.

At its maximum point, I think the increase should be directly countered by the Arcane trait line (which synergises quite well with the active style presented here. At its minimum, you are back to standard attunement cool-downs but have also lost most of the spec advantages until you recover it.

Admittedly this does mean dynamic attunement CD, but boons/conditions can already affect this. Alternatively set CD by current charge level, akin to warrior adrenaline bar.

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

On 9/25/2021 at 9:45 AM, TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

The more I think about Catalyst and its issues, I think it can be thought of this way:

Catalyst does not feel like a synergistic spec, because it is instead a stack of 4 minigames:

• F5 minigame
• Hammer3 minigame
• Augment synergy minigame
• Auramancer minigame

Whilst playing these disparate minigames, you are supposed to also kill things and survive.

This is why the spec feels overcomplicated and punishing:

Instead of the spec supporting the character in their gameplay, the spec demands excessive support from the player.

 

This is also why there are a very small subset of very good players who able and willing to play all these minigames together and perform great feats with Catalyst.  But their abilities are in no way evidence that this is a quality, fun spec for the playerbase at large.

 

To summarize even further, it seems Anet confused the first two definitions of the word 'difficult':

1. Requiring considerable effort or skill; not easy to do or accomplish.
2. Not easy to endure; full of hardship or trouble; trying.

The first promotes learning and mastery. This is what a good elite spec should do, and the rewards of mastery are ever-increasing synergistic fluidity and successful results.

The second is just pain and punishment. This is what Catalyst is, and by virtue of its design it actively impedes ever-increasing synergistic fluidity and successful results. This is why it is simultaneously so disliked AND so ineffective.

 

[Jski.6180]

Anet just stop you have failed. Every thing you do seems soo un-though out nerfing a class type that most ppl call a complete mess before its every out like this is beyond forgivable.

[Wraistlin.6072]

Okay so I feel like the orb projectiles need to be the focus of this spec.  It has been the most enjoyable part for me thus far.  Nix the Jade Sphere combo field nonsense.

Add the hammer #3 skills to attunements instead (matching the proper attunements), while Catalyst is spec'd.  Make F5 the Grand Finale skill.  Then you can redesign the elite utility to refresh the duration of all active spheres, and apply the boons to 5 targets etc, based on the active orbs. 

Change the utilities to do what they do, but also generate the orb projectile based on their element.  (Nix the Jade Sphere requirements)

Redesign the hammer 3 skills or simply make Hammer#3 the Jade Sphere, that drops a field based on your current attunement, but doesn't switch as you change attunements, instead the sphere, and the field follow you for its duration.

 

 

BOOM! Catalyst fixed.

Your welcome!   >=)

Edited October 8, 2021 by Wraistlin.6072

[Aedil.1296]

On 10/8/2021 at 2:14 AM, Wraistlin.6072 said:

Okay so I feel like the orb projectiles need to be the focus of this spec.  It has been the most enjoyable part for me thus far.  Nix the Jade Sphere combo field nonsense.

Add the hammer #3 skills to attunements instead (matching the proper attunements), while Catalyst is spec'd.  Make F5 the Grand Finale skill.  Then you can redesign the elite utility to refresh the duration of all active spheres, and apply the boons to 5 targets etc, based on the active orbs. 

Change the utilities to do what they do, but also generate the orb projectile based on their element.  (Nix the Jade Sphere requirements)

Redesign the hammer 3 skills or simply make Hammer#3 the Jade Sphere, that drops a field based on your current attunement, but doesn't switch as you change attunements, instead the sphere, and the field follow you for its duration.

 

 

BOOM! Catalyst fixed.

Your welcome!   >=)

I dunno...i didnt really like even that orbs thingy. The way u wanna rework it smells of Virtuoso, with the difference that he can throw 5 projectile not 4 and he generates the very quickly and keep them outside of combat without any ticking clock forcing u to throw them or they disappear. 

 

I would just like something ranged and original. I mean, is not my job to find the right idea. My role is to pay and reward a great game design or to look elsewhere. Anet has a huge advantage on me as I am hooked to the franchise for 14 years now, and there's not any real competition to guild wars 2 out there... But will this last for long? 

Hopefully not, at some point a better game has to release and provide something interesting I hope. 

Something interesting = bad*ss mage class 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Aedil.1296

[montecristo.1324]

I thought about catalyst a bit more. Here a couple of things I have in mind.

First of all I like the idea, the lore, of the sphere. It really fits in the wizard/mage fantasy. It feels like one of those strange and mysterious object you can find in a magic store.

 

About the mechanic, I think that a lot of ideas have been given, overall I think the F5 could work if it has something more on it, compare it to scrapper F5 for example, maybe based on the attunement it could do damage, or heal, or something. Or maybe it could be decided through traits

 

Another idea can be to remove the energy part and give it a CD shared with all attunements, so you can't have multiple spheres active, it would be nice to have the option, maybe through traits, to decide either if the sphere gonna change with he attunement (like it was in beta) or if it will remain with the same attunement when it was casted, similar how glyphs work now. So you could have different play styles.

 

I would like a bit more customization of the effect of the sphere based on traits overall.

 

I really believe that it can become something nice, it needs some tweaks.

[Ace.1784]

I think Catalyst is almost in a really good place. At first it felt weird, but then someone posted a build that emphasized how the multi hit abilities of hammer charge the sphere really quickly and everything clicked from there.

 

I still think being able to cancel the sphere early to save energy or be able to move the sphere at the cost of some energy would be helpful (you can even increase the energy cap/energy duration mechanic to allow for movement at the cost of 5/10/15/20 energy).

 

Augments on the other hand don't feel that good. I think removing or decreasing the cast times would go a long way if you want to keep their effects similar to how they are now. Otherwise, the effects need to be more interesting/stronger (specifically, air and earth). Fire's effect is fine and water could use a bit more damage scaling.

 

All in all, I look forward to playing with hammer and the Catalyst soon. It's a really fun spec!

[Aedil.1296]

Shing Jea presentation

 

Link to video above.

 

When at timestamp 46.10 Rubi said "Since I am in GodMode I am enjoying my Catalyst a lot" I was like LOOOOOOL!!! That's right girl! GodMode is the only way to enjoy Catalyst so you know that!?!?!?!?