Vindicator Feedback Thread

[Tseison.4659]

I loved seeing Vindis in WvW/PvE carrying the Urn of Saint Viktor and made me miss Cantha, the Kurzicks and my Ritualist even more. With that said, in regards to the skill itself…

Why not make it so that when the Urn is active, the healing per interval to nearby allies be a moderately big heal and then upon smashing the urn, you grant a huge barrier to nearby allies.

The original urn granted an absorption shield so it should atleast do the same instead of granting a boon, in my opinion. Oh and the healing radius should be increased as well.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Tseison.4659
Added example link to original Urn of Saint Viktor.

[Kidel.2057]

4 minutes ago, Nightstar.9574 said:

Useless F2 ability outside of Alliance Legend

I thought the same initially. After playing more I can tell thet F2 is better in other legends. 
On paper "it does more on Alliance so it should be better", right? Actually no. The only useful thing about that F2 is the trade between energy and endurance (that you get on core legends too). The "reverse flipover" effect is bad. The whole flip mechanic is the single biggest problem with the spec and must be simplified. No CD, simpler management (either a new F3 to lock or swap the whole board when using Elite or ONE of the skills).

[Obtena.7952]

On 9/18/2021 at 5:02 AM, Telgum.6071 said:

You already wrote this message on the other thread, why making a new post for it? Want more confused faces spam or something?

Want to bet on this?

Probably because it's not enough to be overly sensational in JUST one thread. 

Other than the strong focus on dodge and endurance in the traits and the flavour of GS (which tastes too much like Sword/Sword for me) ... I think the spec is actually pretty great.

[Kidel.2057]

12 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Probably because it's not enough to be overly sensational in JUST one thread. 

Other than the strong focus on dodge and endurance in the traits and the flavour of GS (which tastes too much like Sword/Sword for me) ... I think the spec is actually pretty great.

"if we exclude half of the problems the spec is great"
True I guess 😂

Quite frankly I think the focus on dodge is great if they fix the 2 offensive ones. At the moment only the healing/fast one is usable. 

What's bad is the lack of CC and the whole f2-flipover in general. The spec is usable if you pick the fast dodge and 2 core legends. It's even good in pvp/wvw I'd say, again, if you don't use Alliance. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Kidel.2057

[Obtena.7952]

15 minutes ago, Kidel.2057 said:

"if we exclude half of the problems the spec is great"
True I guess 😂

Well, you have to consider the significance as well. Honestly, if Anet swapped up a few effects on the GS and changed a couple of traits to give me options, I wouldn't have much to complain about. That's a pretty small set of changes to make to satisfy my issues. The truth is that there is a lot of function packed into a single spec here. 

To be fair, we got CC ... you just have to use an alternate weapon to get it, which is intended by how the game is designed in the first place. And the dodge issue can be minimized with build choices.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Gatvin.6510]

So I don't main rev, and the class has always been confusing for me, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I think at one point I had some success with a corruption build with legendary demon.

 

That's all still true here, and having a sub-legend swap mechanic makes it even more complicated. Can these be split up into two separate normal legends?

 

I like the sweet dodge mechanic, but it DOES leave the spec incredibly vulnerable. Dodging is critical to wvw and pvp for ducking through the worst of incoming damage/status effects. A standard wvw command a leader will give to a zerg is "double dodge through", meaning dodge twice through the enemy's damage focus. Similar situations occur in PvP, and I haven't played PvE lately, but there's certainly times I recall wanting to double dodge through a bunch of ground that's on fire.

 

The spec in my opinion, probably needs enough defensive mobility to be able to handle those basic fight scenarios.

[guan.1829]

Except for tumbling V. Nothing else is competitive

[wolfyrik.2017]

9 hours ago, Ezrael.6859 said:

You guys got given the best GS in the game for damage, mobility and defence all in one, yet still you complain?

I'd argue it's one of the worst. It has little to no affinity with the spec, lacks any reasonable CC, the block is poorly thought out. Compare with Reaper GS which pull to get enemies in range for cleave/CC and numerous synergies with it's class. Ranger GS has a stun/daze which refreshes it's main damage skill, with a good movement skill to get you in range and Grants boons to your pet. A good block skill. Both weapon are viable throughout most areas of the game and Meta in some.

Meanwhile, on Vin; Minor vuln, worse damage than sword, some knock off skills and animations from other classes and a block which deals damage based on number of hits, so the tougher the content, the weaker it is. ie it's weaker against a boss than a gang of trash mobs.

[Mitch The Stalker.3482]

So I played a lot of it in PvP and had quite fun, much better than I thought it would be,  but it has some glaring issues:

Your dodge isn't a dodge... I actually assumed this was a bug at first and reported it because you still take full damage up until the final 0.5 seconds of the animation where you get an evade. So basically you CC yourself for the first 1 second or so and then get a normal evade at the cost of a dodge that everyone else gets and you are unable to reaction roll... I don't see the point of having this huge one cast dodge if it is an objectively worse dodge.

 

As far as PvP is concerned, both elites are really underwhelming Spear of Archemorus misses 80% of the time because it is easy to dodge, and has to keep line of sight for the full duration of the cast whilst keeping in the 2000 range of where you first cast it and even when it does it, it hits like a wet noodle. It is imo worse than the 2 skill on a LB power DH,  a build that isn't exactly meta. Urn of Saint Viktor just gets you killed if you ever use it in a combat situation so once the spear is on CD you usually have to wait to F2 so you can get spear back as I don't see why you would touch this with a 10ft pole. Or you could spend 4 seconds trying to switch it on your own, which again, will get you killed in combat.

 

Scavenger Burst and Tree Song take way too long to cast, they are small, low impact AoEs (Tree Song is decently impactful to be fair). The cast time is so long that they often feel not even worth casting because there effect is so little. Trying to hit a moving target with Scavenger Burst is impossible with such a small AoE, imo it should be 1/4 sec cast like herald Elemental Blast. Elemental Blast is more offensively viable imo and a much better AoE (which was mentioned to be this vindicators strength but honestly it it isn't).

 

The greatsword seems fine, it just feels like ranger greatsword with less CC copy and pasted onto Rev so a little disappointing it has got to be said. Between that and the animations it is unfortunately quite clear that Rev was not given the time and attention the other elite specs received which is again disappointing. But at least I had more fun than I thought I would playing it in PvP and I could see it being somewhat viable there with a few patches

[Clownmug.8357]

Don't know what it is but this spec just doesn't click with me. It probably because there's a heavy amount of support mechanics tangled up in it and whenever a profession is given support "buffs" it always feels like punishment.

[Glaidan.4653]

First of all, I really like the idea behind invoking two great warriors to aid you and your party in battling groups of enemies. So, I am in love with the concept of skill flipping. However, I do miss a lot of fluidity in the elite spec and also the interaction with the other legends. Therefore, I wanted to share my thoughts. (I played only some PvE open world with the Vindication btw).

My feedback is more about flavour of the spec and the mechanics, rather than numbers and balance (I am not enough of a hardcore player to be able to realistically judge those).

 

Getting up from downstate

When getting up from downstate, all the skills are reset to Archemorus. Why don’t we get up with the mix of skills we had before going down. This got me thinking, why can we not select the “default” skills in the build template to be a mix of luxon and kurzick skills? So, we can chose which skills we get when getting out of downstate… Also this would be a nice QoL in terms of how you want to approach a fight.

 

Theme of the legends
Archemorus: I like the theme of dealing AoE damage and buffing yourself. It feels like a warrior in the midst of the battle

Saint Viktor: It just heals/cleanses allies. It feels more like a monk with a greatsword. I would prefer a warrior which encourages his allies to continue pushing. So not only healing/cleansing allies, but also pressuring enemies with (soft) cc’s (see skills below). So make his skills also interact with enemies.

 

The dodge

I don’t like the jump (I think it’s issues are already mentioned a lot). For me, one long jump and aiming the landing ruins the flow of the elite spec. I would prefer to just dodge roll and stealth (like disappearing in the mists) and then deliver an attack/heal when revealed (based on GM trait). You would still have two dodges, but the second dodge would not trigger stealth if you are still revealed. Still the amount of endurance required for each dodge type could be varied.

 

Greatsword

I like the flavour/flow of the greatsword. However, I believe that the greatsword could solve some of the issues of the interaction with the other legends. As the Vindicator is like a warrior specialized in hitting multiple enemies, it needs not only damage numbers, but also some battlefield control. For example:

GS3: make it also a leap finisher. This could interact with fields from the other legends and from other players.

GS4: give true strike a (soft) cc, like slow or daze.

GS5: make it a whirl finisher and/or give it immobilize/crippled, making it harder for enemies to escape the damage.

 

Utility skills

I do like the flip mechanic, but it should come without the current cooldown. Either remove the cooldown or give each variant it’s own internal cooldown.

Selfish spirit: I think the amount of healing should not be affected by the amount of enemies you are fighting. Either make only the might/vulnerability dependent on the number of enemies or give it a decent base healing with additional healing per enemy struck.

Battle dance: as an evade it should be instant cast. Also, add some battlefield control like cripple.

Tree song: add some weakness to surrounding enemies to pressure enemies (again some battlefield control)

Awakening: some cc as battlefield control.

Spear of Archemorus: add some stun as a reward for landing it against players and for defiance bars.

Urn of Saint Viktor: I think this should be reworked completely. Why not make it an upkeep water field which sticks to the Vindicator. You could than use GS3 and GS5 (see above) in this field, but also other finishers from other weapons. The -50% movement is fine as most weapon sets have some mobility and we have nomad’s advance/battle dance. Additionally you can make it also block projectiles (which cost energy for each blocked projectile), or don’t make it block projectiles but let the drop skill have an effect based on the time spent in the upkeep or the amount of current energy.

 

F2 skill

The fact that F2 flips the skills of the legendary alliance is nice. However, what I do miss the option to lock the current mix of luxon/kurzick skills. This should be a F3 skill. Also, the current F2 skills is kind of boring for the other legends, as mentioned in other posts. My thoughts on how to make the F2 mechanic more appealing to the legendary alliance and the other legends is the following (requires a rework of Leviathan Strength):

F2 Legendary Alliance: upkeep (0 pips) and lock utility bar to current mix. This disables F3.

F3 Legendary Alliance: flip utility skills and gain endurance.

F2 Other Legends: gain energy (puts both F2 and F3 on same cooldown).

F3 Other Legends: gain endurance (puts both F2 and F3 on same cooldown).

 

Traits

In my opinion the traits are too much focused on the dodge mechanic and endurance. Let one or two of the minor traits interact with endurace/vigor, so that only the minors and the GM traits iteract with the dodge mechanic. This frees up some major slots for different playstyles or interactions/cross overs between Archemorus and Saint Viktor.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Glaidan.4653

[JekthAvid.1408]

Personally, I love this spec. There are a few bugs but overall it feels fantastic for me to play. I've been having a blast with glass cannon shiro/alliance gs/sword sword in pvp and ventari/alliance with staff/gs in pve, despite how many people feel about ventari.

 

I love how it feels to use archemorus's spear and dive in with shiro.

 

I love the heal "dodge" with vigor. 

 

I'm having a bunch of fun, and I wish I didn't have to wait until February!

 

Edit: xD people are confused by my opinion

Edited September 22, 2021 by JekthAvid.1408
I just found it funny

[Ludregan.7018]

So, after trying the vindicator with different stats and different builds i want to share may oppinion about it. I'll start by saying that vindicator feels like mixing oil and water: luxon is all about damage and self buffs and kurzick is healing and buffs to your party.

Revenant is an hybrid class and every legends does a different job, but even with that you can find ways of combinig legends and make a full dps oriented build for example. Kalla and Glint work in the same way of the other legends, they are unique but can be combined with others to make strong builds that focus on one or two things. Is important to say here that no matter the build you're wearing, you use most if not all of the legend's skills. I can't see that with vindicator, luxon requieres te exact opposite of kurzick. This is not like wearing a support build with Ventari and Kalla but also the devastation espec to help a little bit with the damage. There you are going full support, you have your skills ready to use at any given moment you need to, but you also have a little bit of extra damage. This cannot happen with vindicator. You use your kurzick healing, so it changes to luxon. What can you do if you need it again. Use te luxon healing and wait? Use your F2 and change all your other skills? You coud just spam all you luxon or kurzick skills, and then use the F2 to be again all luxon or kurzick, but that is an enormous use of energy. You could also change legends instead of use F2 to regain energy and then change back to vindicator, but then you'll have to use F2 to use either luxon or kurzick making you start with less energy. There is another option that is use whatever you have in that moment, either being kurzick or luxon, but that way, depending on your build, one of them is going to do nothing. My point is, i don't know how to focus vindicator, it's like two different legends totally opposite at the same time.

After all of that, my idea would be this:

Make a F2 and F3, one to change all to luxon and the other to change all to kurzick. It could also work give some kind of buff to the next skill you use that didn't change. With that you can go full luxon or full kurzick and have a more focused build, the only problem being you're ignoring half the espec.

And that's it. Thanks to everyone that read this.

[GonzoNeo.4965]

I hope to hear some arenanet  reply from the feedback after the beta week finish if the are planning in some rework design.

 This is not a number issue only, is a basic design specialization issue.

[phokus.8934]

Energy Meld needs to be instant or at least 1/4 cast time at the most.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

11 minutes ago, GonzoNeo.4965 said:

I hope to hear some arenanet  reply from the feedback after the beta week finish if the are planning in some rework design.

 This is not a number issue only, is a basic design specialization issue.

 

This is exactly how I feel. The spec isn't just undertuned, it is fundamentally bad. The skill switch is over complicated and requires you to stare at the bar. It is useless outside of Alliance. The single dodge is a total liability. Then there is the plethora of strange design decisions that undermine my faith in whoever put this mess together - torment / burn on a spec with no other condition buffs, the dissonance of healing / offence / skill flip, the fact that GS skills are coloured blue which is one of the swappable skill colours, the bloody urn... So many issues. This isn't a beta test IMO, this is an alpha at best. This spec has obviously not actually been tested on content; It wasn't even worked out on a spreadsheet, back of a napkin is most likely but even then... Argh. I think we can see what happened given the demo on the live stream. Those golems and situations were the only time any developer actually tested the spec, probably because the whole thing was built in that environment. The one positive thing I have to say is that the lore based around the spec is far better than "I got really angry" Kalla.

[Kain Francois.4328]

I want to say that I really do like the flipover mechanic. Having the right side of our bar change is the POINT of Rev. That's what F1 is meant to do.

However, Legendary Alliance lack synergy.

I think it would be better if the "alliance"-mechanic combined our two legends. So instead of  Archemorus and Viktor, I could go Archemorus and Shiro... But I'm sure that was brought up by the design team at some point and scrapped, resulting in iteration we have now?

In any case, I think having to manage f2 to use skills we want is actually cool. But don't call it alliance. Archemorus and Viktor builds are clearly at war with each other, and I'm battling to use the Legend I want while the other keeps invading my skillbar...

If the Alliance mechanic stays as it is, then I want to see more synergies created by the legend.

Please create more chains so both healers and dps builds get mileage from both legends.

tl;dr: Viktor just heals, and doesn't compliment Archemorus in any way and vice versa. Please make better synergy.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Kain Francois.4328

[Thon.3780]

After testing 

 

Utility skill is completely mess when you play continuously in some period such as pvp WvW raid or fight in mob fractals.   Coz it mix between Arch / Vik  . I agree with many feedback that use F3 For Arch and F4 for Vik. These will help play to choose their role whether they want to do damage or play supporter

F2 for refill endurance is ok. 
 

 

 

for weapon skill . That is ok . If I want more . I need ANET to add Vulnerability in skill1 1 st hit , chill move to hit 2 and hit3 has 1 stack vulnerability.. These will make vindicator play smooth and can mix and match skill more

 

[Kidel.2057]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, you have to consider the significance as well. Honestly, if Anet swapped up a few effects on the GS and changed a couple of traits to give me options, I wouldn't have much to complain about. That's a pretty small set of changes to make to satisfy my issues. The truth is that there is a lot of function packed into a single spec here. 

To be fair, we got CC ... you just have to use an alternate weapon to get it, which is intended by how the game is designed in the first place. And the dodge issue can be minimized with build choices.

Having to give up the ranged weapon for CC, or worse, having to swap to a renged weapon for CC in a melee fight, is bad design. Every good weapon should have CC, or it's not good enough.

That being said, I'm not really complaining about GS. Honestly GS is not perfect but it's by far the best thing of this elite together with Saint's Shield (which is probably going to be nerfed because it's performing good in PvP).

When we talk about lack of CC people don't just talk about GS but also Alliance. The whole spec adds 0 CC, meaning you have less CC than a core Rev. This means you have to carry a core weapon only for cc (and be forced to swap)  and also swap to a core legend, and still have less CC than the other specs. 

You're also still talking about the dodge. Dude, the dodge is fine if they tweak numbers and bugs on Death Drop. Almost nobody is complaining about that. 

People are mostly complaining about the legendary Alliance skills and F2 mechanic. And well, the kitten DPS in PvE, but that's again, just numbers. 

[DonArkanio.6419]

I think that the theme is there, it somehow fits lore and leaves some room for interpretation.

 

About the combat though.

- Having 2-in-1 legend is a great idea, but the execution feels very weird and unintuitive to me.

- The utility skills are somewhat random but check all the boxes; mobility, boon, stunbreak.

- The energy drain on Urn is nuts.

- F2 zwapping skills inside legend is cool and requires planning. The 25 energy cost is a bit too much to me.

- Elite spear throw is.. just a damage skill.

 

**Greatsword**

- auto attack lacks any animation. It honestly looks like hitting with a stick.

- GS 2 is a pretty basic will that does it's job, though it very reminds me of Hammer 2. Also, the animation of the skill being just a copy-paste auto attack is uninspired.

- GS 3 is a cool skill with awful animation. That mini run before teleporting doesn't do the job for me.

- GS 4 I don't like it. I'd rather get the Block on Off-Hand Sword 4 back and change GS 4 to something else. 

- GS 5 This skill feels great to use. It reminds me of Trident 5 and it's a powerful burst. 

 

[zallesz.1650]

Having mained Revenant for some years now, mainly in PvE endgame content (raids, T4 fractals, open world PvE), and always wishing for a GS, here is my feedback about the spec. I will talk about:

 

- Dodge Mechanic

- Legendary Alliance & Flipping Mechanic

- Greatsword

- Traits

- Overall spec identity & Visuals

 

I am not trying to reinvent the spec, as at this stage of development, it is not going to happen. There is no need to completely revamp the lore, the skillset, and the general feeling of the spec, but we can definitely adjust some aspects of it. I tried to come up with changes that I still think are feasible 5 months before the expansion release. 

 

1, Dodge Mechanic

The idea behind it is good. Modify a core gameplay mechanic and make it into an important class mechanic. We have seen examples of this. But the execution is not so great. 

Let's start with a question: why just 1 dodge? We are trying to make the mechanic into the centerpiece of the spec, why not try to use it more? It's not like it is giving us something super-OP that it needs to be reduced to 1. It actually takes away one of the best defense mechanisms in the game, and everything in our toolset, traits, gear need to be revolved around trying to make endurance regeneration as high as possible, so we could use it more. So why not give leave us with 2 dodges? Why not give us 3?

Daredevil also has dodge as a core spec mechanic, and the spec actually embraces it. meaningful choices in traiting, and you need to actively dodge as much as you can. Vindicator wants to use dodge as much as we can (because it's new, it's cool, and it's mechanically advantageous), but CAN'T. That is bad design. 

Example: High end PVE content, or even just doing regular events in HOT maps are now a lot more difficult, because whenever there are several mobs with cc and aoe abilities, you will be at a disadvantage. You want to use dodge for its mechanics, but you will also want to keep it for defense purposes. 

Suggestion: Make the dodge the true centerpiece of the spec. Make the evade frames as long as the regular dodge, and give us 2 charges. Allow the Grandmaster traits to really define our playstyle (traits at a later section). 

 

2, Legendary Alliance & Flipping Mechanic

- Alliance general idea: Again, the idea is cool, the execution not so much. The forums are effectively full of one single suggestion that fixes the biggest issues with it. 

Suggestion 1: Allow us to camp either Archemorus (hence, Arch) or Saint Viktor (hence, Saint). 

 

- F2: With a proper dodge mechanic (detailed above) now does not need the added endurance generation effect baseline. It now serves a very clear, very non-clunky purpose. 

Suggestion 2: F2 should be used to flip to either Arch or Saint. 

 

- Archemorus: Should be more impactful / powerful. 

Suggestion 3: Higher damage numbers on skills. Remove burning from Scavenger Burst (it never made any sense anyway), and make it a hard cc skill, either stun or knockdown. Arch elite should do a lot more damage to compensate for its ramp-up time.

 

- Saint Viktor: This is more of a spec identity problem as well (which we will discuss later), but since this support side of the Legend will likely stay, let's try to make sense of it. They probably will not compete with any dedicated main healer, but still could make sense as an offheal / situational boon dispenser. The skills themselves are more or less fine, except for the DREADFUL URN. It needs a complete redesign. 

Suggestion 4: "Redesign idea". Urn (upkeep) provides constant healing and 50% damage reduction. When dropped, it provides regen, resistance, stability, protection. MAKE IT DOUBLE TAPPABLE!

 

3, Greatsword

Honestly, they look fine. It was mentioned that they have no real synergy between the skills, and it is true, but I do not think that it's the biggest problem with the spec currently. So if Anet decides to completely revamp the skillset of GS, I am fine with that, but I do not really see it happening. If they tune the numbers, I am still happy with how it plays. GS5 feels unsatisfying to use, because it is super unreliable. If there is no huge hitbox, or 5-6 enemies around you, it will most likely do negligible damage. Citadel Bombardment is a good example of a somewhat random, yet more reliable aoe burst skill. 

Suggestions: Increase damage numbers on GS2, GS3. Reduce the potential radius of GS5. 

 

4, Traits

Oh boy... Many traits revolve around the dodge mechanic, which in its current iteration is unsafe and weird to use. Often, we have more support based trait choices, making the spec feel even more hybrid-y and weird. Let's make it a bit more coherent, and allow it to focus on F2, and dodge individually in Adept and Grandmaster Traits, while giving us some personal flavour options in the Master Traits, and at the same time have a DPS and a Support options, and an inbetween one as well.  Here are my suggestions.

 

-Adept: Leviathan Strength actually feels like a punishment. Giving us random bits of might is the definition of "meh...". "When struck below X HP" is also a very mehh thing to trait. I am of course looking at things from a PVE perspective, where the goal is to not fall below x HP, so I might be biased, I agree. 

Suggestions:

1, Activating F2 in ANY legend, gives you might & fury. (DPS)

2, Your utility skills all do damage while in Saint stance, and your utility skills all heal your while in Arch stance. (Mix)

3, Activating F2 in ANY legend heals allies and gives regen. (Support)

 

- Master: Since the dodge mechanic issue is now "solved" with my suggestion above, this traitline allows us the experiment with more playstyle-changing traits. 

Suggestions:

1, Swapping legends gives you 15% damage for x sec. (DPS)

2, Using an elite skill reduces Legend Swap and F2 cd. (More legend swap > more dps at the cost of more keyboard piano?)

3, Gain 50% endurance when reduced to 50% hp. (Defensive)

 

- Grandmaster: Like daredevil, this one should give us a tasteful variety of the dodge mechanic alternations. 

Suggestions:

1, Dodge does more damage, 35% damage boost for x sec. (DPS)

2, Dodge does normal damage, but we have 3 charges. (Defensive-DPS Mix)

3, Dodge does no damage, but gives healing and barrier. (Support)

 

5, Overall spec identity & Visuals

Revenant does not have a selfish power dps spec. We have hybrids, we have good condition dps, we have support specs. We are capable of doing power damage, but we are somewhat mediocre. The class fantasy is close to an edgy, dark knight-ish fantasy, but we still mainly do support and boon stuff, ok, we can roll with it... BUT.

We are given a GS. GS is categorically a heavy hitting, power dps weapon, and the spec should reflect this. 

The idea of fusing 2 legends into 1 is great. We can play in a power dps aggressive style, or a more supportive style. Then first thing we need to do is remove the awkward conditions from the skills (Burning on utility and Torment on Elite). The vuln and chill can stay, as they fit the fantasy, and melee playstyle well. 

It would be nice if the spec did a bit more damage. Considering that we have to juggle the constant legend swap, and now the 2 legend flips, and the dodge mechanics... I want to feel rewarded by doing higher than average damage, and not something that I can do with autoattacking renegade, or herald. I do not want a brainded-spin-to-win spec, but with the class's baseline complexity, I think a more hard-hitting power spec is varranted. 

I know we are somewhat treading on daredevil playstyle (and I hope they are not offended), but with the dodge mechanic, it is just inevitable. Since we are aiming for a similar playstyle, we could always have some of the simplicity provided by other specs, to have a satisfying rotation that does not involve playing the UI more than playing the game. Something like: Dodge for damage boost, use your hard hitting skills, switch legends, upkeep, use hard hitting skills, dodge, repeat. 

 

In terms of animations, at this point I feel like that is the least of our problems. I am fine with what we have right now, if the core spec mechanics are refined in the end. But still, it would be nice to have something more defined. I am happy with the actual animations (I love gravediffer, GS2,3,4, auto feel okayish), but we could use some more detailed effects. Think about Firebrand axe. Now that is a cool, iconic looking animation. Just autoattacking with that axe feels rewarding by watching it. Give us something that represents us channeling the mists, ripping into the fabrix of reality. Axe5 is a really nice looking effect, for inspiration. GS5 seems like a very low-budget effect at this point.

BUT I love that our GS constantly has this dark mist-effect on it. Big thumbs up for flavour right there!

 

Please, Anet, there is still time! You can still make this spec great! Thank you for reading the playerbase's feedback!

[Obtena.7952]

49 minutes ago, Kidel.2057 said:

Having to give up the ranged weapon for CC, or worse, having to swap to a renged weapon for CC in a melee fight, is bad design. Every good weapon should have CC, or it's not good enough.

That really doesn't make sense because weapons are based on theme and the idea they don't give you everything you need isn't bad design, it's intended to make weapons swapping meaningful. If you aren't using that swap to fill out your skills with things your main weapon doesn't, that's not because of bad weapon design, that's bad build crafting. The irony is that Revenant has two secondary weapons, that have amazing support abilities, including some of the best CC skills in the game ... and one of them is ranged. 

So no, not having a CC on GS isn't a problem, except in the case where people don't take advantage of their weapon swap. 

And no,  I'm not complaining about the dodge itself. I'm complaining that the traits are too focused on the dodge mechanic. It makes the class feel thin and my options limited. For instance, The master traits ... sure they are different, but they all do the same thing ... give me endurance. That shouldn't be three different traits. It should be one, and the other two should be giving me options to focus on DIFFERENT aspects of the spec, like the flipping skills or a GS trait. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Skyroar.2974]

Just played with it. Has potential, but its core philosophy has to go.

Having a legend swap inside a legend swap is silly, and unnecessarily complex. The dual-legend skill flipping is not doing anything new nor better than what the entire class does already with its core F1 mechanic. In fact, it's pretty much that very same system, but worse, because the flip skills disrupt your roles if you want to focus purely on dps or purely on support, while rev's core F1 swap skill gives players greater flexibility. So the dual legend mechanic is a worse version of the core class mechanic.

Imagine if elementalists were given a new F5 attunement where, once on there, you would have to swap between 4 different skill kits. An attunement system inside an attunement system. How silly and absurd would that be? Imagine if an engineer's kit would unlock access to several new kits within it. A kit inside a kit. Again: bizarre. The dual-legend idea may seem interesting and unique at first, but it's ultimately redudant and idiotic when you realize that devs are basically recreating the core class mechanic inside the core class mechanic. Half of F2's effect is basically an iterated version of your F1, except exclusive to the Alliance legend.

There's an easy solution to that, but I'm not sure if Anet is willing to go for it. It's typical of game designers - any game designer, regardless of company - to be proud of their unique mechanics and resist dismantling them. And the solution is simply: split the Alliance legend into two. There. It would fix a lot of other problems with the espec as well. For players that don't like the red side or the blue side, you would give them the option to pick one or the other, instead of the current frankensteined band-aid solution that is F2.

 

[Mike.7983]

Disclaimer this is from a PvE perspective using a hybrid of marauder/zerk ascended/legendary gear to have a permanent 100% crit rate.  Please upvote this if you agree so that arena net may notice and fix this sad Vindicator.

 

 

Renegade

 

Pro's

25 Might perma from chaining crits with little to no effort as mass hitting skills procs 25 might instantly and forever

100% crit rate due to 33% trait alone

Shortbow is amazing for general mobbing with high cc built in, abusive with sigil of draining.

Stupidly overpowered battle scars heal through icerazor pumping out 40 vuln

Crazy unmatched 6 second aoe denial cc spam.

Citadel bombardment carpeting a area with dreamer bow 🙂

Ability to solo pretty much anything including lvl 99 fractals/legendarys.

 

Cons

No greatsword

Sword animation dull

Nothing else the elites perfect.

 

 

Vindicator

 

Pro's

Greatsword is nice to have.

 

Cons

Horrible dps that does less than a renegade auto attack does

No sustained heals since slow hits and low battle scar rate

Flip skill system punishes dedicated dps or support

Elite is a missing wet noodle spear or a suicide on demand button

Forced to run shiro/jalis rather than alliance for stances.

Skills look boring and copy other classes aka gravedigger animation while also stealing meteor showers tooltip info?

Virtually zero cc requiring jalis at all times or super clunky useless hammer with a slow hammer drop that usually misses anything not rooted down.

 

End of review rant, thanks for taking time if you read this.

 

Sincerely a Revenant main. TY

 

[Zaret.1450]

Ok where do i start.

I dont mean to be disrespectfull if i am somewhere sry because i expressed myself badly ok? Also i know its a beta just think making a beta its better to tone it too powerfull first and make it weaker bit by bit instead of the other way around

 

First a lot of people had high hopes for vindicator and hoped itd give us a reason to stay with this class, we were wrong, as most of revs elites the concept is cool but once you play it it doesnt feel rewarding.

Second a LOT of people wanted a greatsword and a power dps class, yeah a lot wanted ritualist and its great that we get both worlds but thats no excuse to get a less than mediocre power dps and a healer that, lets be clear, herald could take the heal elite role and be usefull for once.

Also sry but how in the world can you make a warrior elite and give it those dmg numbers when berserker is there and then have the courage to give rev a kitten dmg again, come on, if you jate rev just remove it from the game but dont give false hopes.

And please those people that say, one class cant do everything good, guardian?, or it would be broken, warrior, guardian?, or dunno its good on pvp or its not bad on wvw, ok and for people on pve? you could make herald for pvp and wvw or vindicator or whatever but come on, giving it a higher coeficient on pve wont make it different on pvp or wvw, also if theres a class that cant work on pvp or wvw its also unfair, what i mean is we have 3 elites plus the core specs how come some clases still have things theyre awfull at?

Edited September 22, 2021 by zaswer.5246