Vindicator Feedback Thread

[Surolam.1490]

The greatsword is going to be great for melee combat against large numbers of enemies: lots of AoE and gap-closers. If you want to commit to DPS or to tank / support, there are traits to help with that, but I personally enjoyed combining the two legends & roles on the fly. Also, the targeted dodge/AoE attack is a thing of beauty. The base class "feel" is still there, but with a noticeable, interesting shift. IMO, it's neither heavily over- or under-powered, but is a worthy addition to the game. Because of the flipping right-hand skills, it has a significant change to the _rhythm_ of play, and getting your combos & sequences set up is more important than for most of the other elite specs we've seen.

[SidewayS.3789]

1 hour ago, Surolam.1490 said:

The greatsword is going to be great for melee combat against large numbers of enemies: lots of AoE and gap-closers. If you want to commit to DPS or to tank / support, there are traits to help with that, but I personally enjoyed combining the two legends & roles on the fly. Also, the targeted dodge/AoE attack is a thing of beauty. The base class "feel" is still there, but with a noticeable, interesting shift. IMO, it's neither heavily over- or under-powered, but is a worthy addition to the game. Because of the flipping right-hand skills, it has a significant change to the _rhythm_ of play, and getting your combos & sequences set up is more important than for most of the other elite specs we've seen.

I do hope you are joking ! Vindicator as DPS? Prob in open world i guess.

[Kreed.2768]

I am wondering why we have yet another support hybrid specialization. Even if the idea was to have the two alliance spirits be opposites of each other in gameplay flavor, could Saint Victor have been something other than support-orientated? Could his skills not have been defensive in nature, but focused on just the Revenant, instead of others?

Other than that, the damage feels lacking. I can get similar damage per second using spinning hammers on dwarf as I do spamming all the red skills on alliance. The jump on the offensive, top grandmaster trait should also not take you out of the fight this long. Just remove that aspect of the trait. If it's supposed to be a tradeoff, it's not a good one, in my opinion. 

[Ecabott.1924]

Few Suggestions.

1. Seperate the legends and make two legends, legendary kurzick champion stance and legendary luxon champion stance.

2. Make both elite skills upkeep that changes your 1-5 skills. Archemorus elite gives 1-5 spear skills while Victor elite gives 1-5 urn skills.

3. The dodge mechanics doesn't suit what the elite spec is about, regular dodges would be very better.

4. Few Unique Fn skills, vindicator should not be limited to its legends.

5. Make Gs 5 skill targeted leap like daredevil's staff 5 and then create aoe rift of damage where you land.

6. Gs skills need polishing and new animations. Also gs skill icons could be more revenant like.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Ecabott.1924

[VladTepes.7042]

After playing the Vindicator for many hours, my impression of the Legendary Alliance Stance and especially it's skills is, that it tries to melt together two coins instead of showing two sides of the same coin. Therefore the skills or rather their swap mechanic feels kind of repressive while it could be a real nice back and forth, like the tides, skillset.

First, i don't like idea of another (half baken) hybrid support spec, Revenant already has enough. I prefer a more selfish theme over anything else this time.
Second, i don't see how a selfish Power set of skills and a (more or less) selfless support set of skills work well together in a back and forth kind of mechanic because you eventually reach the point there you want to dash out the skillset of the half you don't (want to) use.
So i would recommend to rework the "selfish/selfless" aspect of the skillset into a more selfish "engage/sustain". Most of the skills don't need much work to reach this because they already kind of work like this.

To keep it short i don't want to go into detail of every skill, these are just some considerations.

• The Archemorus side feels mostly nice to play, not much to change there(exept for the elite skill). Just smaller things like applying weakness and perhaps some more vulnerability, also a CC would be nice.
• The Viktor side will not really fit this theme. To much support and to less self-sustain which restrains the spec as a whole. So while Archemorus is the engage-side, Viktor should be the sustain-side. To reach this i would drastically cut down the supportive aspect of all the skills to get more self oriented sustain. For example Battle Dance: Instead of giving your allies restistance and regen, just give it to yourself and blind and/or cripple your foes before the evade backwards (there is already a strange "hit" animation on this skill, so i think it would be nice to do something else than just jump backwards).

For both of the Elite Skills: I don't like both of them. Archemorus Spear is too slow and weak, the Urn a self-destruction button in pvp enviroment. Also i think they work to different to each other compared to rest of the skill set. Suggestion there: Make them both a charging skill that reach there limit after 5 sec, drain energy for the time till they reach their limit and than they can be used whenever you want to. You should also be able to instantly use them for much less effects.

 

 

[nosleepdemon.1368]

2 hours ago, Surolam.1490 said:

The greatsword is going to be great for melee combat against large numbers of enemies: lots of AoE and gap-closers. If you want to commit to DPS or to tank / support, there are traits to help with that, but I personally enjoyed combining the two legends & roles on the fly. Also, the targeted dodge/AoE attack is a thing of beauty. The base class "feel" is still there, but with a noticeable, interesting shift. IMO, it's neither heavily over- or under-powered, but is a worthy addition to the game. Because of the flipping right-hand skills, it has a significant change to the _rhythm_ of play, and getting your combos & sequences set up is more important than for most of the other elite specs we've seen.

I came across one of these poor, wretched souls in WvW on my regular Roam/Support Rev last night. I'm by no means an expert at WvW although I did do lots of sPvP Back In The Day. I could see what he was trying to do - hopping about, whirling his useless greatsword around, dashing this way and that. Thing is, he had zero CC, zero pressure, no damage, and all I needed was Dwarf stability / taunt into Ventari to finish unloading my weapon sets, then back into Dwarf for hammers while tea bagging his downed state. It was over in a couple of blinks of an eye. 

 

Hopping like a bunny does you absolutely no good when you can still be hit and cc'd while in mid-air, where your own skills are still locked out.

 

This is a terrible execution of a promising concept.

Edited September 24, 2021 by nosleepdemon.1368

[Caid.4932]

To be real the healing on saints shield is really, really op. Like 2.5k healing and barrier without a single point in healing power is kind of crazy. 1.5k of each in pvp is still really strong. Its just a bit weird when guardians heal on roll trait heals for 250 or so (which is way too low).

Its kind of borderline redundant at that strength were it single handed is going to keep 5 peoples health topped off in most pve content isn't it? Adding an aoe heal and urn and possibly ventari just feels like serious overkill on healing without a huge amount else to offer a group in support. Bit of condi cleanse and a 20ish second group stun break is a decent start but i'm not sure I'm desperate for more support beyond that, it feels like a roll thats well covered elsewhere. I'd rather better damage dealing utiliity in terms of cc and maybe making saint viktor a gap closer instead of a roll back, just for ease of use and to stop the times i get them mixed up and end up going the opposite direction of where i want to go.

 

For saints shield i just wish you'd make it scale like crazy from healing power and drop the baseline down to maybe 750 to 1k of each, its a lot of fun to play with the big heals and healing power has always felt a weak stat so i'd want to keep that build around for release but it should take some investment.

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

2 hours ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

I came across one of these poor, wretched souls in WvW on my regular Roam/Support Rev last night. I'm by no means an expert at WvW although I did do lots of sPvP Back In The Day. I could see what he was trying to do - hopping about, whirling his useless greatsword around, dashing this way and that. Thing is, he had zero CC, zero pressure, no damage, and all I needed was Dwarf stability / taunt into Ventari to finish unloading my weapon sets, then back into Dwarf for hammers while tea bagging his downed state. It was over in a couple of blinks of an eye. 

 

Hopping like a bunny does you absolutely no good when you can still be hit and cc'd while in mid-air, where your own skills are still locked out.

 

This is a terrible execution of a promising concept.

I literally decided to take a stab at WvW again and used my regular Power Kalla on a Vindicator. Literally Sword/Sword 3, 2, 4, 5 and they went down after attempting to run away on a GS.

All it took was a single CC on Sword 4 to decimate them, GS definitely needs a tune up on Vindicator if they're gonna launch this E-Spec with a GS Rev. 

[MatyrGustav.6210]

4 hours ago, Ecabott.1924 said:

Few Suggestions.

1. Seperate the legends and make two legends, legendary kurzick champion stance and legendary luxon champion stance.

2. Make both elite skills upkeep that changes your 1-5 skills. Archemorus elite gives 1-5 spear skills while Victor elite gives 1-5 urn skills.

3. The dodge mechanics doesn't suit what the elite spec is about, regular dodges would be very better.

4. Few Unique Fn skills, vindicator should not be limited to its legends.

5. Make Gs 5 skill targeted leap like daredevil's staff 5 and then create aoe rift of damage where you land.

6. Gs skills need polishing and new animations. Also gs skill icons could be more revenant like.

 

1. If its seperate, it wouldn't be an alliance. If changed, there needs to be a way for it to make sense as an alliance spec. 

2. Thats interesting. I play support and would love Urn skills. But i feel like it would over complicate things by adding kits 

3. I love the dodge mechanic. 

 

 

i would suggest

F2 Endurance +

F3 Swap Alliance Skills 

F4 Lock 🔐 Alliance skills

 

On other legends F3 & F4 would need something unique per legend

Edited September 24, 2021 by MatyrGustav.6210

[Salvatore.3749]

PvE Feedback for Today

Rev is my second main character for PvP and primary main character for PvE alongside my ranger/guardian for fractals and story. 

1. Greatsword, I love it. I'm not going to say it's amazing because it needs some skills fleshed out and refined.

• Sometimes the bursts on the skill 5do not actually hit all targets for aoe damage.
  • I imagined a circular blast explosion and it feels like individual line explosions extending from my rev instead. For some reason I think the intended mechanic was explosions moving like a hand on a clock, but not all of them would hit and foes were right next to the explosions which resulted in a miss.
    • Solution: make hitboxes wider.

As for the legendary stance skills: 

2. The urn could kill me too quickly.

• I had on full marauders, but typically I like to go soldier's or celestial for rev in PvE because I use it as a tank and powerhouse. Thus, my max health is a bit lower at times, but it's compensated by dps and toughness. In a crowd, it didn't work the way I envisioned it. It reminds me of the old blood is power builds from Guild Wars 1 that required the battery necromancers to be supported by a healer. With no healer or a dead healer, the battery necro was useless. Except, I'm not providing energy, I'm healing others and not being directly healed in the process, so I'm dying quickly. It seems like a good "oh snap, we're getting killed, let me drop this urn for boons" type skill, but as a rev, I should be fighting more than healing. 
  • Suggested solutions: cut down the health degeneration rate; or
  • Have all energy drained and some health drained upon channeling the urn.

3.  Spec Synergy and GS Synergy with other legends:

• I thought GS synergized well with Shiro as I was able to warp in and out of combat and use the dodge to finish enemies. Battle stance's attack speed buff was thrilling and probably some of the best synergy I've seen on rev for dps. I was just cleaving foes in drizzlewood coast attacking fast with the GS. Using spear of Archemorus after swapping from Shrio legend was awesome for finishing foes. 
• GS had average synergy with Mallyx because GS is power based and Mallyx is more condition based. Thus, that was awkward since the power damage wasn't rewarded from the conditions caused by the legend. While it was unique to use the urn with mallyx to absorb conditions and keep resitance/resolution, it wasn't the best in a group setting because it killed me faster. 
• Ventari legend was likely the most unique with staff and hammer and ventari traitline. Although, I felt more like a healer than I did a revenant. I still don't know how I feel about that because the urn could heal well and Ventari's tablet could keep me alive once I invoked Ventari. The downside was that I wasn't able to effectively attack, so I swapped to hammer to attacked from range, and focused on healing those around me. This was not ideal for someone like me who likes to be within the action as a player. This kind of rendered my launch mechanic useless unless I was trying to move far and bring the tablet which was really helpful for mobility. 
  • Essentially, I was a moble healer dishing out high damage slowly, but that means I could either invoke Archemorus/Victor, swap to urn or swap to spear and maintain my range, and swap back to Ventari.
• Jalis synergized well with spinning hammers. I liked that as soon as I landed I could launch hammer spins for more damage and the GS could just cleave things. I also got stability which was helpful
• There were no combo fields on GS and 1 combo finisher on GS. That doesn't make group play easy overall as that means there is no purpose in bringing GS to provide extra damage. That was disappointing because group play isn't rewarded for playing offensively. 

4.  As for the spec synergy with other weapons: 

• sword was great.
• dual swords was good.
•  staff and hammer worked well (with ventari legend available).
• axe was good for extra mobility and cc.
• mace was not rewarding at all. 

5. Launch mechanic took too long to recharge and too long to land. I imagine using sigils to replenish vigor on weapon swaps or runes that provide vigor will benefit the vindicator's launch mechanic to regenerate endurance faster, but that causes a slow down in damage and support. 

• Solution: Long cast time is likely for targeting purposes, shorten it by a second or half second and it would be in a good spot to deal aoe damage. 
• Solution 2: Legendary alliance stance skills or traits should provide vigor or great sword 3 skill should provide vigor on hit. 

I don't really want to play vindicator as a healer that sits in the backline just moving around the field, that would really suck for someone like me who wants to be in the action. Vigor needs to be added to spec's skills or traits for more effective combat to keep the vindicator within the combat.

 

 

[Axl.8924]

I noticed today that the barrier thing on vindi build doesn't actually synergize with the healing outside of jump, which is kinda disappointing.

[Manpag.6421]

Conceptually, I think this is really fun, but as a Rev main (mostly open world), it feels like a lot of the kit needs tuning to make it useful and fun to play.

 

As others have said, being locked out of your dodge for so long feels like too great a punishment for taking Vindicator, making it feel less like an "Elite" spec. I found myself running Saint of Zu Heltzer and Song of Arboretum with Retribution (for Enduring Recovery and Unwavering Avoidance) just to feel as functional as a normal character, and you shouldn't feel shoehorned into a defensive build when the whole deal is that it's a combination of opposing styles.

 

I feel like, if anything, Saint of Zu Heltzer could give you superior defense (boons/damage reduction) to allow you to tank hits better at the expense of your dodge, suiting more defensive playstyles, while the more offensive playstyles are going to need their dodge more frequently just to stay alive. Something like the Daredevil mechanic would feel a lot more satisfying to play.

 

I have mixed feelings about the way skills flip to the other legend once they're on cooldown. On the one hand, it's very handy to essentially have two heals on one legend without using F2, but on the other hand it's much harder to keep track of things when your Kurzick and Luxon skills get all mixed up and F2 will give you back one but lock you out of the other. Rev is based around switching to a predictable set of skills to play a particular role, so I feel like skills should stay in their Kurzick or Luxon state until you F2 to give that clean divide between your offensive set and your defensive set.

 

To mirror others' feedback, Urn of Saint Viktor is extremely clunky and underwhelming in its current form. -10 pips AND 1% damage per second? At best you're going to drain all your energy for minimal payoff, at worst you're just going to kill yourself. It's great to see some skills that would synergise well with Ventari to give more potential for Rev healer builds, but it's too selfless, especially compared to Vengeful Hammers which give you 20% damage reduction for -6 pips while healing you and injuring enemies in a non-elite skill with no activation time.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Manpag.6421

[Axl.8924]

2 minutes ago, Manpag.6421 said:

Conceptually, I think this is really fun, but as a Rev main (mostly open world), it feels like a lot of the kit needs tuning to make it useful and fun to play.

 

As others have said, being locked out of your dodge for so long feels like too great a punishment for taking Vindicator, making it feel less like an "Elite" spec. I found myself running Saint of Zu Heltzer and Song of Arboretum with Retribution (for Enduring Recovery and Unwavering Avoidance) just to feel as functional as a normal character, and you shouldn't feel shoehorned into a defensive build when the whole deal is that it's a combination of opposing styles.

 

I feel like, if anything, Saint of Zu Heltzer could give you superior defense (boons/damage reduction) to allow you to tank hits better at the expense of your dodge, suiting more defensive playstyles, while the more offensive playstyles are going to need their dodge more frequently just to stay alive. Something like the Daredevil mechanic would feel a lot more satisfying to play.

 

I have mixed feelings about the way skills flip to the other legend once they're on cooldown. On the one hand, it's very handy to essentially have two heals on one legend without using F2, but on the other hand it's much harder to keep track of things when your Kurzick and Luxon skills get all mixed up and F2 will give you back one but lock you out of the other. Rev is based around switching to a predictable set of skills to play a particular role, so I feel like skills should stay in their Kurzick or Luxon state until you F2 to give that clean divide between your offensive set and your defensive set.

 

To mirror others' feedback, Urn of Saint Viktor is extremely clunky and underwhelming in its current form. -10 pips AND 1% damage per second? At best you're going to drain all your energy for minimal payoff, at worst you're just going to kill yourself. It's great to see some skills that would synergise well with Ventari to give more potential for Rev healer builds, but it's too selfless, especially compared to Vengeful Hammers which give you 20% damage reduction for -6 pips while healing you and injuring enemies in a non-elite skill with no activation time.

Why not just focus on the barrier part? You can already heal as a herald, so if you could focus on the barrier part, at least you could let herald specialize in 1 thing and vindi in another. Having barrier set synergize with the actual healing traits would be a good start in allowing you to create a barrier rev.

[Allium Cepa.6927]

Enjoying Vindi over all so far. Been focused on support type setups in open world. The main thing I feel off about is the energy drain of the Urn. I actually like the urn. You can get 93% damage reduction on some setups while team healing and providing some boons. But that energy drain is so high. If you use the urn and no other energy skills at 50e, you get about 10 seconds. That's fine, but if you want to actually use any skills you have far less urn time. I would expect the self damage of the urn to be the tradeoff for more energy efficiency.
And you cant be healed during it

Edited September 24, 2021 by Allium Cepa.6927

[Loules.8601]

I think that we need a new trait - for Greatsword mastery. We have problems with GS and also "duality" with DPS and support - so what about corresponding trait? Renegade have one themselves for a short-bow mastery. Herald too if I remember it correctly. 

[itspomf.9523]

TL;DR:  I'll be upfront:  I don't really like it.  I'm not really a revenant main, and the only reason I dusted off the poor guy is the hopes that I'll find something to make me like the class.  Unfortunately, I did not.

 

Overall

After a lot of twiddling builds and playing with equipment, I Revenant's Vindicator (Revengenator?) feels particularly one-note.  Well, more of a chord, really.  Consisting of precisely two notes repeated one after the other -- which, I understand, is the elite specialization's core mechanic.  Big toot, little toot.  Over and over, unless you press F2.  It's not fun, and the flipping of skills more often than not had me doing something other than what I expected.

 

Feeling forced to routinely burn a skill on a 20 second cooldown to get the effects I wanted ended up with me constantly playing Shiro instead.

 

Feeling-wise, I ended up using both the provided Marauder's gear and a "simulated" (read:  I'm not spending that much to make/buy that gear) full Berserker's setup with Scholar runes.  Damage in both is excellent, but durability in the latter simply plummets, even with pumping out modest healing from Battle Scars via the Devastation trait line.  Oh, and anything that isn't a full DPS build scales very, very poorly, so I cannot recommend it.

 

Greatsword

Yet oddly enough, I can really get behind this.  The attacks are rather satisfying, and feel like Reaper with more mobility and utility (both things which Reaper lacked).  So to that end, well done:  I Can't Believe It's Not Reaper™.

 

Slot Skills

Okay, if you've read this far, you realize I didn't run the new Archemorus/St. Viktor (Vikkimorus?) legend much at all, because I really disliked the mechanics behind them.  It wasn't fun constantly keeping track of a bunch of differing skill effects and which one I was on, which might be why I generally don't play Elementalist in GW2 (a shame, as I adored them in GW1).

 

That's ... that's it.  That's my feedback, unfortunately.

 

Traits

Things kind of get worse, here, too.  Once again all of the traits seem entirely focused on The One New Mechanic, rather than seamlessly integrating with past core trait lines like elite specializations before it -- in short "pick your flavor of dodge effects," a la Daredevil.  Which is a bit reductive, considering it also changed your flavor of Vikkimorus shipping bonuses Legendary Alliance skill effects.

 

• Tenacious Ruin:  I did not expect this to be so divisive.  On paper it sounds awesome, but in practice it feels more clumsy than a drunken skritt at an ale moot.  And we've seen that (spoilers for new players:  it's bad, trust me).  The extremely long leap time, which I presume is because my poor revenenator was returning from low orbit, just ... halts, partway through, making timing feel incredibly awkward when used offensively, and the long, long, looong recharge is just a big OOF when you need it again sooner than expected.  This is somewhat alleviated through clever trait selections and Song of Arboreum, but only somewhat.  Using dodges sparingly feels very much against the principles of fast and active combat.
• Leviathan Strength:  so ... this one was moot for me, as I stopped running those guys fast.  It also works against itself, since, you know, it's now a 40 second cooldown on your F2.
• Amnesty of Shing Jae:  yeah, same problem here.  Having a second completely moot trait was definitely not appreciated.
• Redemptor's Sermon:  this is a nice little throw-away trait that really has little to no effective impact in the end, as the healing provided, while nice, isn't going to change the tide of battle (believe me, I tried) and as "the only non-alliance trait" in the Adept bracket, it's sort of a wash.
• Balance in Discord:  the trend continues, so quite simply:  no comment.
• Reaver's Curse:  recovering no more than 25 endurance (half the bar?) is nice, but only if you're in a fight with 5 baddies and actually hit them all -- so better hope you didn't foolishly pick Forerunner of Death!  But yeah, on a sizable cooldown all the same, it's really no better than having Vigor, and actually kind of worse when you think about it.
• Angsiyan's Trust:  generating 10 (yes, ten) whole endurance for up to 5 buddies with a vague stipulation and a hard requirement to run Vikkimorus has this one right out.  Shoo, off with you.  Both of you.
• Song of Arboreum:  basically, take the former two traits, amp them up, and then have 75% endurance regeneration for 4 seconds on dodging.  For you, and your (five) friends!  Seriously, why wouldn't you take this one?
• Empire Divided:  +240 Power or Healing based on HP is cool and all, but when so many other traits scale incredibly poorly with Healing (looking at you, Dance of Death and the Battle Scars effect), the latter isn't actually going to do much more than mean "deal less damage when you really need it."
• Forerunner of Death:  hahahahahahahaaaa ... no.  But seriously, no.  Not only does it mean taking longer to dodge, 100% is still technically 100% and hamstrings your ability to synergize with Reaver's Curse, so really, it's only the extra 15% strike damage for 15 seconds that you'd use it for.  Which really just makes it a discount version of Daredevil's Bounding Dodger, considering that, well ... you're not going to be using this offensively.
• Vassals of the Empire:  gaining Protection and 10 stacks of Might (+300 Power, +300 Condition Damage) for 10 whole seconds, basically meaning I take 33% less damage until my dodge recharges?  And I get to share it with my friends?  Sign me up!  Oh, and it buffs your dodge to about half the power of the former trait, which still isn't much.
• Saint of Zu Heltzer:  dodge slightly more, and heal yourself and your friends in a wider area, with 6 seconds of +20% outgoing healing effectiveness is nice, yeah, but ... 2,600 Health and Barrier is not quite what I want to waste my dodge on.

Edited September 24, 2021 by fluffdragon.1523

[Bloodronin.7984]

As a long time Guardian main, and Rev alt, I think this new elite spec has a lot of ups and downs. 

Firstly, let me say I have been waiting so long for Rev to finally get a greatsword! It is the main reason why I never left Guardian. 

Okay, let's get into then. Overall my exp with this class is a little more negative compared to positive. There are a ton of things I like, but it feels rushed or just... well like the class doesn't have a real identity.  

 

GreatSword

Starting with greatsword in general.

GS animations feels clunky and slow.  There are no GS specific traits. The traits aren't a deal breaker, but it be cool to have something since the traits already feel so bland. More on that later. Only real traits that interact with it are for the vul stacking ect. Example Dance of death.  But nothing that affects the GS itself really as other weapons also apply Vuln. 

GS skills.

Skill 1: Auto attack chain- Feels like any other normal attack chain. Just needs to be sped up.

Skill 2: mist unleashed- doesn't feel like it is anything special. just another aoe attack. Animation is okay. Needs something to make it unique to Revs.

Skill 3: phantom's onslaught- reminds me of warrior and guardian charge or leap skill. Feels like it should fit here. Animation is way better than warrior's charge version.  Good job with this.

Skill 4: imperial guard- feels like it is just a copy of ranger's block with a small change to the animation.  My suggestion would be to change it slightly. My idea Imperial Mist - Invoke your legend, covering yourself in mist. For 2 seconds all damage is converted into healing for X amount. If X amount is achieved do an aoe blast of ice damage. Cannot do any other attacks while channeling this skill. Can be CC still ect. It e cool if the mist had a small change in color depending on the legend you currently have in use.

Skill 5: eternity's requiem- Arguably the only unique skill for the REV with GS. Cool idea. Someone else mentioned that maybe each pulse to add chill for .5 sec for reach blast. I think that would be a really cool idea. 

Overall GS skill animation need to be faster across the board. I would like skill 2 to be changed to give it another unique skill only REVs really have with the GS. I think it be cool if it left a mist pulse on the ground for boon for allies and yourself as well as something negative for an enemy. It would fit in with the dual aspect of the Vindicator. 

 

Okay, so now let's talk LEGENDARY ALLIANCE STANCE

I love and hate this mechanic. When I thought of getting 2 legends,  I was like omg that be sick af! But the way this is implemented is just... I am not fan. At the very least, if you are sticking to the dual swap mechanic, make it so the new skill also isn't put on cool down.  That alone may make it play better, but overall I still think the mechanic should be completely redone. 

My suggestion would allow either as I said above, or a completely new mechanic.

 

F2 mechanic

Make it where Archemrous and Saint Viktor are completely separate legends you can invoke, but with a twist!

Give the player an option for F2 to be either Archemrous or Saint Viktor. If I had it where F2 was Saint Viktor, it would allow the player to choose Archemrous as a a legend with a set of skills. If Archemrous was the F2 it would free up Viktor to be a legend you can invoke. And if you choose neither as your legend to invoke, then you can choose either or to be your F2.

Make it where there is no flipping. If Archemrous is my F2, then when you hit it, it will give you some energy back, but also buff yourself and nearby allies, giving their next 3 attacks do X more damage to something like that while also doing an aoe cripple near you.   If you have Saint Viktor as the F2, it would have it where it give energy, but also increases your healing and allies healing by X amount for a short period of time and does an aoe heal near you. 

Having it set up like this would give the player the option to only have 1 of the alliance as an actual invoked legend. But also give the player choice of whether they want to play as support or dps without the chunkiness. 

At least that is my 2cents on that.

 

As for the skills themselves, if you think of them as 2 separate lines it is easier to understand. And I think they could be more fun.

Archemrous

Skill 1 Heal- seems fine to me.

Skill 2 Nomad's Advance- I feel like the lunge is okay. With the theme of not dodging, I think it be cool if this lunged you forward while blocking attacks. Retaliate with a large cleave where you land. Does X more damage per attack blocked.

Skill 3 Scavenger's burst- Gives endurance and quickness, while putting burning on targets. -I guess the burn is so it can synergize with condi specs? Not a terrible skill but feels like it sorta doesn't fit. 

Skill 4 Revaers' Rage- I think this is fine as it is.

Elite Spear - This is just... why? Damage feels low and may end up being a dps loss! Make it so you invoke a mist spear in your hands, giving you a new set of skills with X amount of charges for it.

Saint Viktor

Skill 1 Heal- Viktor is mean to be a support. This heal is fine.

Skill 2 Battle Dance- Good evade with some boon support. Nice.

Skill 3 Tree Song- VERY powerful skill. This skill alone would be great for a support player. VERY NICE JOB.

Skill 4 Awakening- Another great support skill. Good job.

Elite Urn- This skill is so bad. Please rework this. Have it similar to my idea above to invoke a spear, but instead you invoke an urn, giving yourself 5 new skills that will support your team without such a negative drawback.

Overall I think Saint Viktor skills are legit and really well done. Archemrous ones are okay. 

 

Let's talk about the new dodge attack thing.

I like the concept, but it has issues. Takes too long to go off. You can be CC'd while doing it. And the energy cost compared to the value is terrible. You are almost sunk into always choosing the heal version just to be able to dodge more. 

My idea for this is to leave the dodge at 2 charges, making it cost 75 energy per dodge with different affects depending on how you talent. NO MATTER WHAT it should still do damage when it lands.

 

That takes us into traits  I am assuming all these traits will need to be reworked as the traits feels so bad and push endurance WAYYY Too much.

Major Adept:

Leviathan's strength- assuming you went with my idea above- make this talent have whatever affect last 2 seconds longer or X amount more powerful.

Shing Jea- Hitting f2 now also grants the following bonuses "Arch will provide yourself and team 3 stacks of might and 1.5 sec of quickness. Viktor will apply regen while also removed 1 condition from yourself and nearby allies"

Sermon- I hate traits that are boring like this. Please change this to fit the theme of hitting f2. Maybe reduce the cool down, but the effect is also reduced.

Minor Master- Balance in Discord- Change to when dodging, gain vigor for X seconds to yourself and allies.

Major Master I don't like how much traits are forced solely on the dodge as it takes away from the other skills. Please rework these. Adding 2 dodges with 75 cost I think alone would help fix issues people are having.

3 new traits for Major Master traits.

1- Overpowering Strength- Greatsword skills are reduced by 20%. GS skill crits apply X debuff with an internal CD.

2- Strength in numbers- Aura skill that gives X amount of power when above 50% hp. Gives X amount of toughness when below 50% hp.

3- Balance is key- Crits with Archemrous skills apply X debuff. Viktor skills heal for X amount when healing someone below a certain hp threshold.

Minor Grandmaster- Empire divided- I like this.

Major grandmaster- these all change your dodge. my suggestion is below. As stated before each dodge should be 75 energy but do different things.

Forerunner of death- Make it where it does X more damage compared to the other 2. Increases your damage by 5% for a short period. Gives no boons. Does no conditions. just damage.

Vassals of the empire- base value of damage for the dodge. applies chill to enemies, 2 sec boon duration to allies and 2 stacks of might.

Saint of Zu- Heal yourself and allies based off the amount of damage you do. gives regen and protections for 3 sec to allies.

 

Anyway these are my thoughts. thank you for reading. I hope real changes come to this. 

 

 

 

[nosleepdemon.1368]

3 hours ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

I literally decided to take a stab at WvW again and used my regular Power Kalla on a Vindicator. Literally Sword/Sword 3, 2, 4, 5 and they went down after attempting to run away on a GS.

All it took was a single CC on Sword 4 to decimate them, GS definitely needs a tune up on Vindicator if they're gonna launch this E-Spec with a GS Rev. 

 

Yeah when I tried Vindicator in WvW it wasn't even good at avoiding damage by spamming heal-dodge. I found that after a moment of being up in the air I started taking damage and CC again. Problem, is I was still invisible and unable to act. So even making a high dodge time build is useless right now. With no CC of its own and such lacklustre damage (seemingly well beyond the dip that exotics vs ascended causes) I fail to see, from a WvW perspective, what Vindicator offers to any member of the team. Conversely, while I had L2P issues with Bladesworn, there were moments of proper execution that paid off giving me the sense that it could be useful in some regard. Vindicator is just... too all over the place for me.

[Loki.4871]

Been playing a bit more, going to add two feedback points

 

-I reccomend adding an F3 for (out of combat?) reorganising of the utilities,  allowing you to go into the next fight with all luxon or all kurzick quickly and easily.

-I've realised that the greatsword and vidicator have no hard CC, such as a stun or daze. I feel this is a massive flaw for... well any content, and should be rectified

[Zavijah.2695]

I was super excited to have a Greatsword Revenant, but currently, I would definitely not play this spec when I already have the fun of dual swords/hammer Herald, and Shortbow(love)/axe/mace Renegade. 

Vindicator just doesn't even compare. What the hell is ability 4. It's animations are not even tied in thematically, to the class. Though it does have one thing that is at least consistent with Guardian Sceptre and Druid staff. Stupid kittening sounds. 

The dodge is cool, but  once initiated you literally just sit there and wait for your character to appear back on the screen. It's not engaging, it's just a temporary time out. 

I also genuinely don't like the 2 spirits button flip. I appreciate trying to do something different, but no thanks. Unless the aim is to spam these off cooldown which removes the tactical and thoughtful approach to ability usage. If I want to use the blue specs, for whatever reason, but it's approaching red cooldown. Instead of being just a flat 9 second recast, or whatever. I have the remaining cooldown to get through, cast the ability IDGAF about and then wait for that. 

 

[Nani.6710]

I dont like the dodge mechanic. i really feel it should be an F2 skill .

also the damage in PvE is lacking , which would mean that rev still does not have a good power dps spec.

I like the overall theme , but the numbers definitely lacking .

[Shin Ryu.5802]

Revisiting vindicator after reading a butt ton of commentary and seeing where I agree and disagree:

Well, I still enjoy the novelty and rhythm of having utility skills toggle between types, even though very few people agree.  As a multi-toon player who (eventually) learned to drive a weaver, planning around vindicator's skill flips on the fly really wasn't hard.  Admittedly, having the mixed utility types does dilute whatever role vindicator might fill, and it's ultimately something of a novelty twiddle that doesn't really enhance anything, so the haters have a very fair point.  So what could be done to address that?

Someone mentioned adding the Alliance legends as two separate legends to allow for players to choose which focus they'd prefer.  This is not a horrible idea, as it allows more options for players who really want to lean into a particular play style to mix and match as they please.  But wouldn't that mean one or the other would go unused by someone who wanted to primarily focus on damage OR support/sustain?  I can think of two responses to that offhand:  1.  Deal with it and just accept that many players will give one legend or another of the pair a good leaving alone, or 2.  if the devs are really married to the idea of players choosing a build which incorporates both new legends, reward that choice by making that a condition of having Alliance Tactics available, and change Alliance Tactics to function similarly to the druid's Celestial Avatar, granting limited access to a crazy powerful skillset.

What a horrible run-on sentence that last one was; Charles Dickens would be proud.  Back on topic...  

The dodge mechanic consensus is that there is simply too much time spent up in the air.  Yes, the character's hit box is out of enemy reach for all that time, but the player has very little to do in the interim but pick a landing spot.  I suggested speeding it up to take only normal dodge speed and function more like a daredevil's Bound; others have suggested it should function more in line with a daredevil's #5 staff skill Vault, which is very similar.  Either way, it might not be unreasonable to allow vindicator to have a standard two dodges.  Yes, the Final Fantasy dragoons are a cool concept, but in my humble opinion, the dragoon's unique Jump command doesn't translate well into Guild Wars 2.

[Layla Aurora.9820]

Vindicator

Vindicator feels lack of connection from weapon skill, lengedary stance to it Tenacious Ruin/dodge . And traits are not supporting this spec enough.

*PvE only feedback

 

Tenacious Ruin/dodge

So trade off 2 dodge for 1 big blow attack, Tenacious Ruin/dodge seems to be the main mechanic of the spec.

But despite losing one chance to save youself/advance you predominance, the reward is way too less and lack of impact/tactics.

To empower the strike, effect apply depends on holding weapon type may bring tatics to it, as example:

 

Tenacious Ruin with holding ~

staff apply evade effect;

greatsword apply pull effect;

hammer apply float effect;

main hand sword apply unblockable effect;

off hand sword apply revealed effect;

mace apply knockdown effect;

axe apply stun effect;

 

something like that should be more impact on foe and ally, and feel more rewarding apon using dodge.

 

Greatsword skill

Feels a bit lack of mobility, as suggestion:

Mist unleashed (skill 2) and Phantom's Onslaught (skill 3) combine together as rush toward opponent and apply vulnerability.

Add new movement skill like Deathstrike from Revenant or Shadow Shot from Thieve.

 

Skill animation

Eternity's Requiem (skill 5) : we know Revenant likes to handle weapon differently, but please give us some handsome animation  as a sowrd, even a big slash would looks awesome.

 

Trait

Reaver's Cruse: Due to tier 3 major trait changes endurance miximum amount, Reaver's Cruse would recover 1/6, 1/4, 1/2  endurance in total when Tenacious Ruin successfully affected 5 target. It feels a bit not enough for 150 endurance, suggest change to 6 per target in total of 30 endurance, or 5% per target in total of 25% endurance recoverary.

Balance in Discord: suggest to apply vigor or endurance.

 

Thats for now

 

 

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

Been playing Vindicator all day so here's some additional feedback specifically about the greatsword.

 

First of all, to get this out of the way, I was testing it out in low level fractals and I ended up doing Cliffside. When we reached the Archdiviner, because there is no CC on the greatsword (and the team in general was fairly new to fractals), we didn't break his breakbar. He then proceeded to unleash a now very recognizable greatsword 2 on us. Made me realize not only is the animation on GS2 literaly the exact same as the first auto attack chain, making it very hard to read, they did not even bother making a new VFX for our most spammable new skill. This honestly has got me incredibly irate. Greatsword 2 needs a new animation, period. The behaviour is fine, but make this more distinctive please.

 

The second problem I finally figured out today is why the greatsword block feels lacking. The stacks of imperial guard you get when struck only last 3 seconds, while the block is a 2 second channel and the counter attack is a 3/4 second long animation. This means that you have a quarter of a second window to keep all your buffed damage, but most likely half of your stacks will fall off before you get the counter attack animation out, considering ping and animation aftercast delays. Make this use the new tech for refreshing an existing buff duration so you can stack up a massive hit while blocking and pay it off. That or make the charges just last 5 seconds instead of 3, while the attack window is still the short 3 seconds it has until now. Hopefully that should make this counter attack feel a bit better. 

 

I'm also a bit suprised there's no endurance generation on greatsword, considering how crucial endurance is to this spec. I think the block would be a great place to put it, gaining endurance per attack blocked, rewarding you to go into tricky situations (I was fighting Deimos today and got in the middle of all his pizza slices, that's how I found out the block issues).

Edited September 25, 2021 by Vennyhedgie.5369

[FrigginPaco.4178]

I tried to be very clear-minded when thinking of what to write here. Please take a look: 

 

Vindicator notes!
 

Greatsword Skills
 

1 skill chain. The auto-attack chain seems fine but it feels a bit less meaty compared to others "out of the box". I do appreciate that it doesn't spam vulnerability out the wazoo as easily as other Sword 1, but it sort of feels like it doesn't have its own identity. I know it's a bit odd to complain about a chain skill feeling "bland" but it does.
 

2. Mist Unleashed. I appreciate that it's a similar burst to the ranger's Maul on their GS, but it doesn't seem to do much else besides inflict 3 vuln. It's nice to have a 5 target cleave, I just wonder if it hits a bit lightly or not. Perhaps give it a 2nd impact if it hits on a thinner cone inside the wide one? Idk - I'm just some guy.

3. Overall Phantom Onslaught is not bad but I must insist that you can really feel the difference between a 900 range
and a 1200 range dash. If this is a price to pay for a dash that's an AoE attack, I kinda hoped it would grant
swiftness as well, as there's a noticeable sluggishness to Vindicator that is contrary to it's flashy leap.

4. For Imperial Guard, is there a maximum amount of blocks it can absorb before a cap of some sort? If there is please included in the tool tips if not please include it in the tool tips.

5. Eternity's Requiem. For being the flashiest in the toolkit it doesn't seem to feel very good. It doesn't even have a last finisher attached to it, even though it could simply be limited to the same number of blasts as echoing eruption (3). I know we're trying to make Meteor Shower feel like it's got company, but... ah man... Give it some other effect? Idk.

General overview of Greatsword:
I quite enjoy the thematic and mechanical applications of Greatsword in game. It's a little bit clunky in that the animations seem to take a little moment to start, but otherwise they feel good. If I had to give a specific criticism of the weapon, it's that it doesn't seem to interact with anything in the vindicator's straight line. Nothing in traits improves the Greatsword to any real capacity. Giving the option to do so so that perhaps it changes one of the skills similar to other traits could be an attractive option.
 

Class Mechanic/Traits:
Tenacious Ruin. While I enjoy the flavor and how it feels to do the dive bomb Dodge, there is brief
lag after the circle completes when your character takes a split second to come back down.
The character should come back down the instant the circle is done to give the most seamless
experience, as it stands it's a bit of a stilted animation towards the end.
Additionally, I feel that the endurance cost for the base damage it produces is simply too high
a cost.

General thoughts on Tenacious Ruin: considering everything, I think it's too costly to use all of
your endurance in one go and it's not rewarding enough to use in its current state. While the
Revenant does have access to several methods of endurance generation, they don't quite feel
easy to access for the purposes of this agility.

Grandmaster Traits

Death Drop does make it feel like it's actually doing something, and the additional 15%
damage afterwards is nice, however I think you should probably be 20% considering the sheer
amount of endurance it takes to execute the drop and how vulnerable you are.
Imperial Impact. It's nice that it extends boons and inflicts chilled, but it simply doesn't do
enough damage to marry using it. Even if it can be used more frequently.
Saint's Shield. This one seems to be the most appropriately balanced in terms of what it offers
- if only because it's the cost of a standard Dodge roll, But maintaining it on a single bar still
makes it feel fairly Limited.
Empire Divided. I get what this is going for, but I don't really know how to feel about it. Obviously
it's trying to keep you up when you're down and push you forward we like you're ahead, I just
don't think I've had enough time to really see it work?

Master Traits

Reavers Curse: the main effect is nice but I feel like it needs something else because of how
infrequently you can land full number of targets. Among the traits that deserve an extra passive
bonus this is one of them. I don't know what that should be necessarily, but access to Fury would
not be a bad idea on this trait, perhaps based on the number of people struck.
Angsiyan's Trust: another trait that I feel could do more, though I'm not sure how. I guess my
biggest problem with some of these is that they don't seem to really offer enough support for
the main Dodge mechanic oh, and that's all they're trying to help. It would be nice for this to offer
some other benefit.
Song of Arboreum: this one feels like it could also tag-along damage reduction while you are
affected by vigor. Or condition duration reduction, something that this archetype doesn't deal
with very well.

Adept Traits

Balance in Discord: not to be a stickler but it says "gain health and boons (plural)" and the only one I see is Regen xD perhaps throw protection in there? It'd help us survive a bit more. Leviathan Strength: I havent played enough with this to determine how it feels.

Amnesty of Shing Jea: might has a palpable affect. The region on this doesn't really seem noticeable. Otherwise I think this is "just" ok. But I wish I had some suggestion here I just don't.

Redemptor's Sermon: I'm not a big fan of threshold abilities. However, if you allowed this to be a visible bun that you could activate while under the threshold by using your heel skill, now you've got my attention. If you could put an icon somewhere on the buff bar showing you "Redemptor's Sermon is Ready" and activate it on heal skill, that would be a nice stack onto standard heal. I would slot it often.

Maybe there are things I'm not considering, but I did give this a lot of attention. Please help!