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Awful - even worse than Herald and Renegade. Which I hadn't imagined possible. The promise of the base class is cooldown free utilities, limited only by energy. Me in control of my character rath

Few Suggestions. 1. Seperate the legends and make two legends, legendary kurzick champion stance and legendary luxon champion stance. 2. Make both elite skills upkeep that changes your 1-5 s

For now I have only some "issue" on the visual identity of this spec: 1. Greatsword skill icon: they need to be more greyish like this: https://i.imgur.com/reYbQnt.png 2. Dodge identity

For now I have only some "issue" on the visual identity of this spec:

1. Greatsword skill icon: they need to be more greyish like this:

https://i.imgur.com/reYbQnt.png

2. Dodge identity between the three types: maybe a color variation can help to understand what dodge you choose (with daredevil you can see which one based on animation, with Vindicator you can't), like this:

https://i.imgur.com/WPEiEHC.png

I know it's something minor, please consider it anyway!

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My biggest takeaway/complaint with the new spec is the new dodge mechanic.

 

Its great to deal damage with a dodge, I think anyone running a Bounding Thief can attest to that.  But there's only a single dodge, and for a game that LOVES to throw out large AoE knockdowns/knockbacks/stuns/etc. in the later episodes, this single dodge is useless.

 

I can't see trying to run through story episodes or Living World episodes, getting mobbed by Branded or Awakened that push/pull/knockdown/knockback/stun/daze/paralyze to say nothing of the siege weapons that get put into play on the Open World maps... and be stuck with a single dodge that isn't even really a 'get away' but is a means of AoE damage + boons.

 

Suggestion: With only a single utility skill granting Stability, and that skill also being the only stun break... perhaps add either Stability and/or stun break to the Reaver's Curse, Angsiyan's Trust, and Song of Arboreum traits rather than endurance gain and/or Vigor.  That will help keep a character protected from the large AoE's they can't dodge out of, while still making them have to be aware of the field since the faster/flat endurance regain won't be there.

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I'm sure we all appreciate your love and enthusiasm towards the class, but a few months before the release of the expansion, they will not remake the class like this. There is room for improvement like tweaking numbers, slightly adjusting animations and such, but a complete overhaul including its theme and lore is not going to happen. 0% chance. 

 

Instead we should focus on giving Anet real feedback as to how to salvage the current spec that we have been given. 

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My favorite of the three. Combat flow is nice, 100% better than that wreckage of a "willbender".  Dodge takes abit to get used to, but don't forget their dodge frame is much longer than a regular one.  It takes abit to land, but I appreciate that i could use that time to access the battle and reposition the landing.  Healing skill is decent, for a 10 second cool down .   I found utility skills abit annoying due to it constantly swap for Victor, but i think this is a LoP issue.      The spear throwing could be abit faster and more impressive animation for the projectile, but overall I'm ok with it.   Some fine tuning? yes.  But it is one of the most decent of the 6 so far.

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Few issues with the spec:

1. Traits are way too focused on Dodge mechanics. 

2. The GS has too much sameness with Sword/Sword 

Because of these two things, I feel the espec fails to provide a variation in play

There is a bright spot ... the Alliance skills are nice, though I think the Spear elite doesn't make much sense (really? what am I going to do with 5 stacks of torment on a foe 2000 away from me on this spec??)

 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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14 minutes ago, zallesz.1650 said:

I'm sure we all appreciate your love and enthusiasm towards the class, but a few months before the release of the expansion, they will not remake the class like this. There is room for improvement like tweaking numbers, slightly adjusting animations and such, but a complete overhaul including its theme and lore is not going to happen. 0% chance. 

 

Instead we should focus on giving Anet real feedback as to how to salvage the current spec that we have been given. 

 

That's why I reused as much as I thought was usefull.
Some traits are simply bad and should be replaced.

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Really don't like the new espec. The new dodge idea seems cool but in PvP feels very weak. The animation seems to have an issue after the dodge. The dodge seems like you're leaping up but can't seem to scale walls with it when it should do that looking at it. You seem to be bound by PvP obstacles like walls when it seems like you should be leaping over them. The espec is very slow and clunky. Elite spear skill needs more damage and I'd rather it had no torment and the urnb elite feels awful. It feels very slow, with not enough damage and the utility skills on the viktor side feel too weak. In PvE it feels quite similar to sword/sword in overall impact and greatsword doesn't seem to do much else except being a generic melee weapon. This espec needs a lot of work to be viable and fun in both PvE and PvP. I'm very disappointed by this.

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basically a nobody, but i play revenant currently. my 2 cents

one dodge is fine, but seems like im waiting for 2 dodges to refill before using agian....seems wrong

when i use a utility, it swaps from red/blue to blue/red.... whats the point of  having the manual swap if they going to change each time u use it? maybe missing something but felt stupid.

 

i played a bit killing random mobs and did a shadow behemoth. other than those 2 things, im sure alot of it i could get use to in time

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9/21/21:

Disappointing. The dodge lasts too long, I wish I could force myself down. Would be nice in pvp though. The dual utilities is a very bad idea. It would have been so much better if we get to choose. Is this the first rev elite without access to fury (unless I missed)? GS 2 does a lot of damage. 

I am for complex, but this felt complex for the sack of it. Ended being annoying and frustrating. I wanted fun. This aint it. Also, felt too slow for rev.

9/26/21:

This is probably the worst of all new elites I played so far. It continues the tradition of experimental bull kitten that does not work. 

First, it has an identity issue. Why does it have support, at all? Renegade already provides tons of support and herald was supposed to be a support elite. The blue utilities of the legend, delete every single one of them. It felt like Jailis light for bo reason. The whole switching utilities does not work. Too clunky. It is literally: “I heard you like legend swap, so we put a legend swap in your legend swap.” 🙄

The dodge had issues as well. I do think it fits, but needs major work. It needs animation. This poff I am off the screen is so disorienting and looks so bad. All three dodges need work. Also, the one dodge does not work. At all. It does not work for mirage in pvp either, by admission of CmC. That does not mean it cannot absolutely work. However, having something coherent and working takes priority over the illusion of trade-offs. 

I had no specific issues with GS. It felt a bit slow, but that is the theme of this elite.

In addition, no fury access is a killer for rev viability. That means outside of group pve this elite will be absolutely the weakest.

****************
I want to take a step back here. Right now Renegade dominates rev to the point rev = renegade. It is probably the strongest elite as the game stands. One of the strongest condi dps in pve. Good ranged weapon. One of the best support builds. Even its power variant is pretty good. And to be clear, I do not think it needs a nerf.

The question is what is the role herald and vindicator are supposed to fulfill? Herald is in no where land, where it is only played in spvp f or the survivability. And the shield is not used anywhere. Vindicator is assumed to be the power dps, but also has mishmash of  many things that do not work and do not fit. 

Anet; Before making adjustments to Vindicator, figure out what role both it and Herald are supposed to fulfill. Make adjustments to Herald first, then figure out where Vindicator needs to go/do. And please no experimentation. You tried really weird designs with Herald and Renegade that took years to fix. Can we get one elite that does bot take 2-3 years to be functional?

Edited by otto.5684
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Rev is my favorite class in this game, the only class that actually feels like a GW1 class, It's sad to see that the Rev's get another terrible elite spec. The Greatsword is supposed to be the strongest power weapon in the game and yet I do more DPS with my shortbow rev speced for power which just boggles my mind. it's very clear what the dev's favorite classes are and Rev is not one of them. what's the deal with the 400k dmg warrior now? i guess it's the world boss easy button now. all of the greatsword attacks on the rev are utter garbage the damage is way too low compared to other GS classes, and the #5 GS skill is far to random to actually do reliable dmg, the hitbox for the #2 skill is finicky and small the hitbox is literally the tiny lines so it hardly hits anything good luck in using it in actual combat, the only halfway GS skill is the reused counter block from ranger GS and it's only because it gets stronger as you get hit more while blocking. Utility skills are generic and uninspiring, why does Archy's spear only hit one enemy for negligible damage? shouldn't it be a big AoE nuke? no of course not, why should rev players have any actual fun! and the main class mechanic the Dodge attack... alright this seems interesting on paper, but awful in execution [a certain quin69 playing a certain jumping job in a certain mmo comes to mind] the only thing this mechanic does is get you killed! every. single. time. it could use 1 second of invulnerability to get out of the chaos that is GW2 combat, heck even a half second would help. this e-spec will be trash for group and solo content because it can't hit the broad side of a barn if it's life depended on it, unless you jumped on it and then the barn would kill you. sorry for the negative feedback, it is what it is. this e-spec still needs a lot of work to even be viable over non e-spec rev, but kudos for trying... just make it better. attack dodge should always crit, that would be a start. the class gimmick should always do the most dmg for the spec i.e. bladesworn dragon trigger is OP maybe a bit too much

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Animations seem more snappy and fast on a human than on a Norn. It's very apparent to me with the dodge. But it could be because of scale? Either way the superman jump part of it feels very cool on a human not so much on a Norn. 

Dps is ok but for some reason I'm struggling with keeping it going after the first set of mobs.  Either get rid of the conditions on the attacks and boost base damage or add more stacks. Seems like conditions are pointless for the synergy of this spec. 

CC is it's biggest flaw in my view. It would be very cool if the GS skills had something similar to axe 5 or some sort of pull. I would love to set up mobs and then smash them with my dodge. 

Forgot to add this. Why would there be a cooldown after using a utility of a legend?? This is crippling the spec. If the whole point is to balance out my utility skills then they should be available anytime. Only limited by which one I used last. 

Would love more movement speed as part of the gs skills or something. 

Final edit: Added some traveler runes and some commander gear. Played as more of a support role with Jalis as my second legend. Felt great and had tons of sustain. If this was supposed to be a support only spec I would be very happy. I just wish the dps side had more "oomph" it doesn't feel powerful at all.

 

Edited by Argo Silversea.4609
edited for more feedback
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I can't stand the flip skills. For me it has the same problem as bladesworn; you're playing the UI, not the game. Too much time spent checking the skills, which ones are flipped, all the cooldowns. It's the worst aspect of elementalist weapon skills, combined with a suicide flip-skill. which offers no benefit to the user.

Having one dodge is crippling, forcing you to take very specific traits which kills build diversity or hope that the near-gamble of unchangable skill flip cooldowns, mean the skill you need is available. Frankly I find the spec kinda boring to play. Dull, reused animations, dull skills, with dull sounds mean that when you actually can look up from the UI, you're not really seeing anything worth seeing. The great sword needs pulls or some other CC, it needs skills with impact. Right now it feels like a naff version of main hand sword, with some rather naff off-hand comprised of a downgraded Scrapper Hammer 4 and a watered-down meteor storm on 5.

As far as I can tell, Vin is a gimmic. It offers nothing over the other elites, but loses a lot of their utility and damage.

It reminds me of Beta core Rev. Needlessly hobbled. 

Edit: Should have been 'hobbled'.

Edited by wolfyrik.2017
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How new dodge works feels great, but using it doesn't feel rewarding, especially when you see how many of traits upgrades how dodge works. 

 

Urn of Saint Victor - thing that it can't double tapped can be a death sentence. The only hope when you use it and get Chain CCed is that you will run out of energy so it will turn off itself and this little heal help you somehow.

 

Using F2 outside of the Alliance Legend doesn't feel worth using (especially with trait Leviathan Strenght or Amnesty of Shing Jea) on any core legend, besides when you aim to burn energy below 10 for Charged Mists trait.

 

Also lack of CC hurts, maybe adding to GS5 option that when any of the explosions hits enemy - stuns him - but only first hit.

 

Tho I think GS3 looks great on charr - even with reused animations - like a beast from The Mists. And idle conversation seems different from others, especially because how long it was. (I still didn't hear conversation between Shiro and Alliance, if there is any.)

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Please change some of the GS swing animations.  On Charr, GS1.1 and GS2 are literally the same motion.  At least give 2 the Warrior SB Counter Attack animation or something.  Or maybe GS1.1

 

Also, love the new dodge, feels a little light on the DPS meter though.  Might need to bump up the numbers considering the sacrifices made to get it.

Edited by Lonewolf Kai.3682
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Disliking the elite skills. Just... all of it. Spear dude takes a while to throw, and the urn is just all sorts of bad in that it doesn't heal enough, can't be instantly dropped, and feels out of place. Also finding the skill flipping exactly as clunky as I expected them to be. This is compounded by the dodge mechanic just being awkward, where the only one that actually feels good deals no damage and puts a wimpy little barrier up. It also lacks quite a bit of health sustain. Even with battle scars, it's constantly struggling against simple chip damage.

For what it's worth, I'd integrate some sort of mild life-on-crit effect into the trait line itself, and slightly reduce the cooldown and energy requirement of the F2 ability - and if the F2 isn't made more accessible, than cut all the endurance requirements by 25 for each of the dodges, and reduce max endurance by the same degree. I'd also standardize the dodge window across all the dodge types, as the iframe period is long, extremely telegraphed, and just puts you in an awkward pause situation where you dodge and... just... wait... for... it... to... end. You're already paying in endurance quantity for the various dodges, so I don't really see a reason to make the dodge period variable on top of that.

Finally, the flippy skills? They by default revert to offense when you're downed, so it seems like that is the skills' base default. They DO NOT, however, reset to offense when you toggle between legendary stances. It breaks up the flow of SKILL USE -> LEGEND SWAP -> SKILL USE. Makes it feel pretty clunky and not at all fluid like the other revenant legend interactions, especially if you didn't use up all your utility skills before hand, whereby F2 is going to give you a mishmash of offensive and defensive oriented utilities. I still think that you as the player should be able to toggle the mode at will with f2, but the skills themselves should not automatically toggle on use. It should also be able to have you assign which of the two modes is your "default," so that support builds can start with support skills, even if they did get downed.

Not all negative, though. The new E-Spec is pretty dang good when faced with a whole bunch of mobs tightly packed together. Can put out some solid numbers on several targets all at the same time. It's just a shame it doesn't have anything to bunch enemies up to do that, though, like a PBAOE pull-to-self skill. Seems like something that could have been in the greatsword skill kit.

Edited by Elan.7523
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Would feel a lot less clunky if your alliance utility skills swapped back to default (archemorus) when you swap into another legend then back to alliance, and on that note, if you could pick which set was the "default".

 

Feels bad for instance when you're being really aggressive, use offensive archemorus utilities/weapon skills/swap stance to continue, swap back only to have your utilities to be defensive and just puts a stop to your gameplay. Compared to herald which just flows flawlessly between legend swapping back and forth.

 

My opinion at least

 

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Honestly, I've really, really liked it so far. Pretty much only have good things to say about it. There's just one thing that is nagging at me like all hell. The dodge animation. Making my character suddenly able to leave the planet out of nowhere feels incredibly tacky.

My suggested alternative: Have the Revenant jump through a mist portal that opens high above. As Revenants do otherwise. It would actually make sense, a huge improvement over temporarily gaining the ability to fly.

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The dodge takes way too long, should be able to either end it early or just make it far shorter. The damage bonus from the traited dodge is far too low. Renegade can get the same bonus without having to spend 3 seconds floating around and not doing damage. It should probably be 35% or perhaps every dodge should get a 10% bonus buff but the trait should bump it up to 35%. I like the weapon skills, although the block flip over may be bugged, I have blocked a great many hits and not seen a lot of damage on the flip over. The f2 is underwhelming and the cool down penalty for traiting it is about 10s 2 long. Outside the legend it should do something more than restore energy, it should probably reset skills on other legends, and the energy cost is too high. Also it’s quite punishing not to have the crit bonus from renegade, this spec should be buffed to compensate IMO, maybe add a crit chance bonus for a time after a dodge, or when your endurance isn’t full.

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I like the idea behind Vindicator, but I feel the execution(or numbers) is off. The spec feels like it is in limbo for whether you want it to be a power spec or a support spec. So far I've only messed around with power side of things due to having no interest in another support spec due to us already having alacgade and boon herald.

As someone who has been a Rev main since its release I have been waiting quite a while for a proper power spec and the way things are right now this is not it. The numbers are far too weak currently and need some tuning for the effort I have to put in to achieve those numbers when I can just hit those similar numbers running a herald power spec with Jalis/Shiro and sword autos.

I do not like the dodging mechanic, or specifically the damage buff tied to the dodge mechanic. It almost feels as if we are forced to keep a high uptime on that buff similar to thief's bounding dodger to be able to output as much damage as possible. I already didn't like this playstyle on thief but it was definitely executed better. Being limited to one dodge means I wont have one available for when I actually need it to avoid damage.

Death Drop takes too long to land, I feel like I am just twiddling my thumbs while I wait for it to finish before I can continue on my rotation. For a fast pace game this does not feel good and should be sped up.

Leviathan Strength feels bad to play with due to energy constraints from a DPS standpoint. I can see this being fine for a support build where you don't need to swap legends as often as a DPS build. Outside of that trait Alliance Tactics is fine, but it doesn't have any value outside of Alliance Stance. It lines up well with Spear of Archemorus due to legend swap times making it easy to get it off every swap to Alliance Stance, but due to energy costs you cant really use many other utility skills if you are using greatsword skills as well.

The burning and torment should be removed as well as I see they serve no real purpose in a power and support focused spec. Numbers need to be tuned as well to bring the DPS on par with other similar power specs. 

These are my initial thoughts so far on the testing I have done in SFTA.

Edited by nikotuck.7259
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GS is really nice, dodges seem nice (especially the healing/barrier one) aside from some animation bugs and maybe numbers (only tested in WvW so far).

Alliance is kind of lackluster imo, could also be me since I haven't had enough time yet.

Edited by Raknar.4735
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I could write a book about whats wrong with this spec within 5min.

 

Greatsword - reused animations everywhere. Looking at tooltips in wvw cooldown are way too long.

(General balance) And thats a general issue with weapons in general. Rev in general was supposed to have low cds at the cost of weapon skills costing energy. So its time to decide which direction you want to take and either bring us back low cooldowns or get rid of energy from weapon skills. 

 

Apart from that gs 3 is actually bugged on range and goes like 300meters max? I feel like it is a skill that could also use evade frame. Also why swing from gs 2 looks exactly the same as autoattack? Theres literally no tell in pvp if i get hit by auto or a "maul"

 

Now lets move into a real kitten here:

 

Class mechanics

F2 - too limited outside of new legendary stance and cost a hefty 25 energy to activate. What even? It needs entire rework.

Dodge - already covered by others. Id like to that adding extra 50 endurance to the bar on the Death Drop is an unnecesary overkill.

 

 

The legendary clunkiness itself

 

Whats the point of a skill flip if they are going on a cooldown?! If i have a flip skill let me use it back to back as i desire while the other used up skill recoveres off cooldown. We already have energy system in place to prevent spamming. For this case i recommend taking a look to Smite; King Arthur character which has already similiar system of flips 

 

Nomad Advance - could use some immobilize

Battle dance - should be insta cast otherwise its pointless as an evade. These lessons should be learned from warrior rifle already.

Scavenger burst - takes too long to cast especially for the damage being so low

Spear of some noname - again long cast time, low damage. Honestly spekaing since this spec lack any form of cc it would be nice to put a pull here at the very least given its a elite ability.

Urn - literally the worst thing so far. Self damaging ability that cannot be insta turned off resulting in a 100% death if cc'ed


Traits

 

Already explained by others as well i think. No point having master traits doing literally the same thing in diff methods.  The first 2 master traits to trashbin. The end.

Leviathan is literally the last thing id pick up as in current state it makes F2 a worse version than what it is baseline.

 

 

3/10. Nice try but its horrible clunky spec in current state. No cc, no damage modifiers. Questionable survivability. Lack of real utility. Wish it was at least fancy but it fails even here. Major rework needed.

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  • Kidel.2057 changed the title to My Vindicator Beta 2 (or 4?) Feedback

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