Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Vindicator Feedback Thread


BadSanta.6527

Recommended Posts

The Legendary Band-Aid-Stance strikes again.
Jokes aside. I have to say that i like most of the minor changes in this update and i'm looking forward to play the Vindicator again this Beta. But i have to admit i was pretty dissappointed that there are still no intersting F-Skills and to see the new dodge-skill is still there or at least that there weren't any major changes to it. I really wished for normal dodges to return and the new dodge to become a F-Skill. That way many parts of this spec that attempt to compensate for the lacking dodge could be refocused on the theme of an alliance between two rivals for a higher purpose. Instead of dodging.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh nice, they changed the look of the landing spot on the ground depending on the dodge type. 👍

As a quick feedback, I still find GS inferior to S/S and even Staff (which still provides some great utility and CC, that balance off nicely with Legendary Alliance lack of self sustain). I'll update this while I keep playing. Maybe it's just me and I have to learn it. 

Overall the class feels much better compared to the first beta (it was hard to do worse) but is still a bit clunky and GS definitely needs some rework. It's now the weakest point of the spec, at least in my initial impression.

I also like the fact that my selection between the Saint Viktor and Archemorus is remembered after legend swap. That opens up to support builds. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Gamander.7520 said:

Why does F3 have a cast time? Makes it very unfun to switch legends for only pressing one skill.

They added cast time on F3 to remove cast time on the skills themselves. It's called balancing.

Edited by Kidel.2057
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Gamander.7520 said:

Why does F3 have a cast time? Makes it very unfun to switch legends for only pressing one skill.

Because that would be hella broken if it didn't. You essentially get 15 Utilities under 3 Legends with Vindicator. Yeah you sacrifice dodge, but this thing now has stupid amounts of sustain with free access to Viktor. 

46 minutes ago, Kidel.2057 said:

As a quick feedback, I still find GS inferior to S/S and even Staff (which still provides some great utility and CC, that balance off nicely with Legendary Alliance lack of self sustain). I'll update this while I keep playing. Maybe it's just me and I have to learn it. 

GS right now is probably the biggest issue on this E-Spec. Surprisingly, even Hammer feels better from a PvE perspective on Vindicator over GS, which isn't something I would usually say about Hammer lel 

  • Like 2
  • Confused 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This F2 is the most boring lame and lazy mechanic ever, is like having two endurance bars but you have to press an extra button to use it, it should do a different thing for every legend, like giving Resolution while in Demon, Quickness while in Assassin etc

 

As i said in the last beta, it feels like the Herald F2 at launch, it was so basic, but after some time you guys made it unique for every legend

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish Archemorus had a proper Upkeep to help time out Charged Mist from Invocation.   I'm having a hard time expending energy to get in range for charged mist, even on S/S.   I probably need to get used to GS, but the cost seem too low, going back to the Charge Mist playstyle.

The Utilities feel great individually, and I can see where they're going with the center trait having Kurzick granting Regen/Luxon granting might.  Very good situational options. However I feel there's either a lack of synergy or it still feels a bit clunky to weave into rotations.

The flow of the Alliance stance feels a little off still, but the Alliance Tactics swaps feels aces.

Overall, there's a lot of clunk, but its getting much better than what is was last beta.

Edited by Desjin.7612
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

Because that would be hella broken if it didn't. You essentially get 15 Utilities under 3 Legends with Vindicator. Yeah you sacrifice dodge, but this thing now has stupid amounts of sustain with free access to Viktor.

 

Why is there no cast time on F1 then? The limiting resource for revenant is energy. Half a second of cast time does not change anything and just feels clunky.

  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

Because that would be hella broken if it didn't. You essentially get 15 Utilities under 3 Legends with Vindicator. Yeah you sacrifice dodge, but this thing now has stupid amounts of sustain with free access to Viktor. 

GS right now is probably the biggest issue on this E-Spec. Surprisingly, even Hammer feels better from a PvE perspective on Vindicator over GS, which isn't something I would usually say about Hammer lel 

Completely agree. And GS3 is still bugged. 

Also let me quickly add that the 2 Elite Skills are still totaly useless. And Urn in particular is still a self-kill button if you're stun while using Drop. 

 

3 minutes ago, Gamander.7520 said:

Why is there no cast time on F1 then? The limiting resource for revenant is energy. Half a second of cast time does not change anything and just feels clunky.

He was talking about cooldown, not cast time. And THERE IS cooldown on F1, what are you talking about? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Kidel.2057 said:

I also like the fact that my selection between the Saint Viktor and Archemorus is remembered after legend swap. That opens up to support builds. 

It appears to reset to the Viktor every time you pop on a mount. I would suggest that like petswap, the swaps get an out of combat cooldown of 1s.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

100 endurance dodge doesn't feel terrible, which i was kind of expecting. Find the animation a bit long, was that changed since last beta? Got a 20k hit from the damage dodge earlier which seems pretty mad. Feel like a less extreme effect from a 50 endurance dodge would be a better, healthier, easier to balance mechanic. I think you could make 100 endurance work, just think it could be a pretty significant problem in spvp especially.

I like the alliance changes a lot, it gives a lot of flexibility to the legend and find most effects strong and interesting enough. I was fairly ok with it previously too but find this a fair bit more enjoyable to play.

Greatsword is ok, feels a bit plain

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Caid.4932 said:

They all had different cast times last beta didn't they? The damage one was quite slow and heal one was quite fast wasn't it?

Yes, you are correct. Now they all have the same duration (closer to the fast one of the first beta I believe, but with no animation lock at the end), that can't be modified by conditions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Sword feels a little better.
  • F3 is an acceptable band aid
    • The whole opposite legend thing is a bad concept because it means Vindicators are actively avoiding half of what they will be balanced around.
  • Dodge mechanic and juggling endurance to this degree isn't fun.
    • F2 is boring because juggling endurance isn't fun
    • Traits are boring due to endurance juggling and/or making dodge into a rotation
    • The game endlessly spams us with reasons to dodge.  Making it less accessible and/or part of a rotation isn't fun.

 

Edited by suialthor.7164
  • Like 2
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I noticed that I'm always in blue and not red when getting off mount or switching weapons.  I would prefer it always be in offense/red stance please to start.  I gotta scramble to f3 bc I expect to be in red but it's always defaults blue.

 

I think blue 8 (cure conditions aoe Target) would be better as a radius condi clear from player.  Targeting aoe makes it really clunky especially when melee.  

 

Blue heal seems boring as well.  It's just an ally heal and a weak one at that.  I'd like to see it have some boon added.

 

Agree with others...urn is a super weak elite. Low heal no extra skills.  Maybe make it like a firebrand tome and give it some skills when trigger elite.  Drop animation is def clunky and slow.  Or maybe a pulse heal to allies with the urn being open with damage reduction. It's gotta get buffed.

I do find arches spear though as an opener followed by 3  and 7 either kills or almost kills most enemies.  I do think it could be better but I do find it useful vs what people were saying. (PVE only)

 

Love the damage now of dodge leap though! Please don't change the Dodge mechanic.  It makes the playstyle so unique.

 

Been having fun with it for the first time!

Edited by Cross.2915
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really really like what in the end has been given to the Vindicator, even tho its french name is "Justiciar", which is a White Mantel title, and makes it very much uncoherent with the lore (by the way, please also pay attention for others languages, I was not the only one to complain about the weird result of translation in other languages).


Rant aside, thank you a lot, I had a lot of satisfaction moment by playing celestial, and balancing between damage or support when it was needed.

That said, now I will give my feedback on what I think is missing on this specs.

- Greatsword should apply some based condition damage, to be hybrid DPS/condition damage (but still mainly Pure DPS) :

I think aside from the shortbow, we didn't really get a condition damage weapon for a while. Greatsword is also a big fan favorite (and it is for me :p), so I would love actually to play Mace/Axe + GreatSword.

So far, the only condition damage we can have is applying tourment with chill, and it's not a lot haha. The #5 could apply chill for 1second each, which could help a lot for example, or/and the #2 directly applying x stacks of tourment.
I don't want a main "condition damage", but hybrid would be really satisfying !

 

That's it for my feedback on this spec ! Thank you for reading me, and keep up the great work developers ! 😄

Edited by neilug hyuga.5634
  • Like 1
  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

- Greatsword should apply some based condition damage, to be hybrid DPS/condition damage (but still mainly Pure DPS)

9 minutes ago, neilug hyuga.5634 said:

 

That said, now I will give my feedback on what I think is missing on this specs.
- Greatsword should apply some based condition damage, to be hybrid DPS/condition damage (but still mainly Pure DPS) :

I think aside from the shortbow, we didn't really get a condition damage weapon for a while. Greatsword is also a big fan favorite (and it is for me :p), so I would love actually to play Mace/Axe + GreatSword.

So far, the only condition damage we can have is applying tourment with chill, and it's not a lot haha. The #5 could apply chill for 1second each, which could help a lot for example, or/and the #2 directly applying x stacks of tourment.
I don't want a main "condition damage", but hybrid would be really satisfying !

 

Totally agree with that. I also really like the gameplay of this new spec but I don't like the direct damages. Could you give the Greatsword more based condition damages? 🙂

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Adah.8371 said:

Feedback absolutely important:

- I found that the picture/icon of the Alliance (St Vic & A.) looks really childish compared to all the others which looks more mature.

Thanks for your attention.

Yeah the new art is completely off compared to the old style. Feels very weird. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Edited 12/6 after more time with the spec.

I really appreciate the changes made so far. Thank you for being so responsive to the community and running great betas. Being able to control which set of utilities we use with F3 is very helpful. Two major points of feedback:

 

1) The new dodge mechanic takes more than it gives. Every single tier 2 and 3 major trait revolves around dodge, and the mechanic replacing dodge is not strong enough to compensate for losing evade. The ground targeting pauses your DPS and doesn't burst very hard. In DPS builds this takes me out of the fight too long and deprives me of an evade too often. It feels a bit better in support builds. Mirage and Daredevil have strong mechanics built around modified dodges, though, so I see the potential.

Energy Meld and tier 2 major traits serve no purpose except cancelling out some of the dodge loss from picking Vindicator in the first place. We essentially lose a trait tier and get nothing like Facets of Nature or Citadel Orders when we take this spec. 

I'd suggest revising the tier 2 major traits and either A) making the new dodge mechanic worth losing dodge or B) making the new dodge mechanic an F utility skill. That could look like:

  • A) Make the new dodge a blast finisher (synergize nicely with Catalyst's Jade Sphere) and make Energy Meld generate a combo field based on the legend you're invoking
  • OR
  • B) Replace Energy Meld with the new dodge mechanic, giving it an energy cost and recharge according to your tier 3 major trait

Keep the tier 3 major traits as is. They're fun and offer distinct playstyles. Thank you for making their ground impacts visually distinct!

 

2) Urn of Saint Viktor doesn't sufficiently reward its high-risk mechanic in DPS gear, and it rewards holding rather than dropping in support gear. Dropping the Urn is underwhelming in every situation.

This skill is such a creative throwback to the "X was Y" item spells Ritualists used in GW1, which makes me happy as someone who's played since 2007. But the skill is outshined by other classes' abilities to provide Barrier or pump out boons in addition to simply healing. 

In a DPS build and in solo PvE, I found little use for the Urn. You can't double tap it if your health gets low, so it's not an emergency button. Holding it serves little purpose.

In a hybrid build, the Urn might work for a DPS tank in raids. You can hold the Urn for damage reduction while another squadmate heals. Most of the real danger in raids comes from instadeath mechanics rather than raw damage, though.

In a support build with Minstrel's gear, the Urn pumped out respectable healing for allies and could be held as long as I had energy. I enjoyed seeing the green numbers around me during big boss fights 🙂 Dodges felt more useful as a healer. Dropping the Urn offered little benefit. I would only drop the Urn to get my energy back up and swap legends. In the end, though, I'd rather take another healer that brings more boons, CC, and/or offensive buffs to the fight.

The Canthan lore throwback is so exciting. Why not lean further into the Urn's GW1 roots? The original Urn of Saint Viktor gave massive damage absorption for your squad as a reward for risking death. Let's see that in GW2: "When you drop the urn, Saint Viktor will shield everyone in the area," absorbing more damage the lower your health is. Which brings us to...

 

3) Spear of Archemorus is a cool concept that feels undertuned and again misses the opportunity to be consistent with Guild Wars lore.

Please make it work similar to Guild Wars 1 and more parallel with Urn of Saint Viktor. Add a charge and release mechanic for the Spear of Archemorus. Drop the Spear at a cost of 5 energy upkeep, charge it with [nearby deaths, # hits, dmg taken, heal output, etc.], and release for a damage spike.

The GW1 damage coefficient was huge. Split it for PvP so you can make it really spike in PvE. If you want it to be parallel with Forerunner of Death, have it start with a large impact radius that shrinks as its damage is charged.

 

4) Other feedback

-Greatsword feels really good, similar to Reaper's greatsword. Great sound design. I wish skill 3 were a Leap finisher, though, and it needs to provide some CC. Reused animations are disappointing.

-I love Selfish Spirit. It's the most fun heal skill in the game. Please don't change a thing.

 

Thank you for running these betas and taking our feedback! ❤️

Edited by Anonynja.3172
  • Like 3
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Anonynja.3172 said:

or B) making the new dodge mechanic an F utility skill. That could look like:

  • -Replacing Energy Meld with the new dodge mechanic and giving it an energy cost and recharge according to your tier 3 major trait
  • -Revising tier 2 major traits to buff squad damage, give squad endurance, or buff your heals
  • -Keeping the tier 3 major traits as is; they're fun. Thank you for making their ground impacts visually distinct!

Moving the attack to an F utility (keeping normal dodges) would be good.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...