Vindicator Feedback Thread

[Kidel.2057]

51 minutes ago, The Food One.6285 said:

My only nitpick that hasn't been mentioned by anyone is that Alliance Tactics should prob have a faster cast time. Right now, the cast speed is a bit slow (roughly similar to opening a FB tome), and is definitely slower than usual legend swap. I think it'd be great to have a faster cast speed or some form of self-quickness generation that negates the laggy swap.

Multiple people have mentioned this. I did it too in my review, calling this "punishing". It should be as fast as legend swap, I agree. 

[Catchyfx.5768]

Well my thoughts about Vindicator 2.0. 
I will mainly talk about PvP and WvW cuz I played those the most, and I'm not a PvE Overlord by any means.(I read we have potencionaly power build for PvE hurry!)

Overall: I like this class, playstyle with aliance/jalis(i was trying this cuz I was using aliance/shiro in BETA2) is just different then herald which is nice, I was worried, because Alliance/shiro felt little like herald. As 1v1 it is pretty neat and I like it. However I feel like this isn't suited for teamfights, I feel there lot weakier. And this is one of the biggest weaknessses for vindi( my opinion). Constant preasure, overall and in teamfights. like Mechanist with flamethrower was my nightmare, when blocks are depleted, dodge is recharging and healskills are somewhat meh(1AA form enemy is roughly same as full healup), I became dps golem. just eating everything. so everything that can kite and use range constant preassure with ease always had upper hand.
But to not be this negative(which is good in those times heh). I had a blast with the class, in 1v1 or as side noder It felt good, it rewards patiance, it can use that ubercombo GS5+Sw3+dodge, this when lands is satisfying. Having 10(8 cuz elites) utilities on demand feels good, but we cannot abuse them like FB can, beacause of energy, which is also good. We can pick and choose.

here if you are interested, is little bit more 

 

-Greatsword

- GS feels good
-change to GS4 was great, longer block, little window so you cannot double tap that, even dmg on second part of the skill is lot better( or I wasnt lucky enough in beta 2)

-GS5 is just strooonk, sometimes RNG will meme you but sometimes it blesses you, overall i always(if in range) get my xy hits.
   shorter casttime is a bless

-GS3 is lovely skill but still work strange, it movese sometimes only 300units sometimse 500, outside of that it feels good, shorter aftercast is great, maybe just a little bit lower CD, not much but 15sec is a lot.(hint 12? 😄  )

GS2- wonderful just change that animation( for enemies to react)

GS aa chain, well i never was quick enough to hit someone more then 1x so idk 😄

 

-Dodge

-All of them have a use and thats fantastic, if I wanna be more supporty i go heal dodge, more agressive? lest go with boon dodge. And PvE have dps dodge as well.
-New landing crash animations are sweet.
 

-Alliance (oh boy)

-it is far better(my personal opinion) then it was in Beta2, I had a blast with Alliance and I didnt want to change it for shiro or else, it pushed me to different playstyle and I(playing herald for ages) liked it a lot. It still have its problems but I liked it.

-F2 is lot better with lesser cost when you are in need to dodge.

-F3 is great BUT, lower or delet casttime, add some effect for ppl to know i switched to Blue or Red, switch alone does not threathens anyone, it does not proc dmg traits on swap so there should be no problem with no casttime, it will maybe help smoother flow between red and blue

-For F3 I have here unpopular opinion 😄 - lower CD on this OR make it affected by alacrity. I think it would be good. Flowing from blue to red would be again, smoother.

 

Heals-
I think both of them can heal a little tiny little bit more +100-200 per pulse, not too much or it will be just OP. I dont have a problem if healing side will be little bit better with BLUEcause i can stack might with RED one. It is not best heal but we get 2. If both were 6k heals it will be nuts and pretty op.

 

Nomad Advance and Battle Dance(movements)-

NA can hit pretty hard, I was scared with 3s and 20Energy(will it be spammy, will it be too much cost), but it is good. Finaly you again have that "I have to choose with utility I use" where do I spend my energy. Distance traveled is good too. Jalis road+this is daze boys.
BD is bugged cuz it have 3sec cooldown instad of 1. But even that it is pretty good. Still trying to get used tooim not in evedaframe right after the click, but its getting better.

 

Reavers Rage and Awakening(stunbreaks)-

RR - I was wondering how it feels to have cc on stunbreak, and I had problems with it at first, but then it plays out pretty nice. When I got stuned ppl want to spike me, I wait for their cast and bam -> interupted and I got stability. I used it offensively sometimes because, I will get stability on hit too so I dont have to worry about 1 or 2CC for few sec. This was nice decision making. So im kinda OK with that.

A - used only if got cced in blue, shared stunbreak sounds cool but idk if I ever managed to help somebody with it, but its cool utility.

 

Scavanger Burst and Tree Song-

SB- I actualy didnt used this as much, when I was left with some energy before swap for quickness and Fury or when I was approaching fight from distance. I was saving more for Reavers Rage, but as opener of energy drain it was fantastic.

TS - I love this one, finally i dont have to run and loose node because rev got condicleanse! Wooo. It helps me survive on node condies. I was thinking if it is overpowerd, but when I look back, if I was targeted with heavy condi class or node lets say, and I was in BLUE, i was using this a lot, but it got me defensive, I lost my offensive powers for exchange to surviving this preasure.

 

Elites-
Well. I used urn once, got stuned and died. Spear is like expensive GS2 on 2000range and too 2/3 did not reached my target, and those who did, they did like 1-3k dps. We have to get used to those spells. Because those are only thing that made me think, ah, this skill is related to this dude I just channeled right? They are lore skills and only thing that is somewhat tied to lore and legend itself, you dont see it anywhere else like with Herald where is dragon animation on all spells.

I dont think Spear needs some huge dmg buffs etc. I dont want this class be overpowered. But I think they can make this little bit more interesting, mainly spear. Urn have its use in party fights when you get stability.

 

Traits

-No problem with dodge traits
-No problem with 10% modifier/condicleanse/or boons on skills traits

-But I have problem with energy generation traits, I dont see why would I choose Reaver's Curse or Angsiyan Trust over Song of Arboreaum. Song should be added as first minor and this line can be used as alliance or class enhancer for more healing role etc.
getting 5 or 10 endurance on dodge when it cost 100 is not very impactful, I know they cannot boost it cuz it will be OP. or add something else to them. That will play with alliance or help fill roles that vindi have to cover.

There is build I played if ppl wonder what the hack Im talking about :http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAExflZSHsTyhlSNMU6hpSfsSKgpsVX0F-z5IWGZWC9mBOPA

All above mentioned apply if fight is 1v1, I found myself suffer very much in like 3v3 -5v5, where my healup, blocks and dodges just were not enugh, esspecialy if i was targeted. This would be better to take staff/gs and saint shield dodge maybe.

sorry for my english, not native speaker

 

 

[Kidel.2057]

57 minutes ago, Catchyfx.5768 said:

Well my thoughts about Vindicator 2.0. 
I will mainly talk about PvP and WvW cuz I played those the most, and I'm not a PvE Overlord by any means.(I read we have potencionaly power build for PvE hurry!)

Overall: I like this class, playstyle with aliance/jalis(i was trying this cuz I was using aliance/shiro in BETA2) is just different then herald which is nice, I was worried, because Alliance/shiro felt little like herald. As 1v1 it is pretty neat and I like it. However I feel like this isn't suited for teamfights, I feel there lot weakier. And this is one of the biggest weaknessses for vindi( my opinion). Constant preasure, overall and in teamfights. like Mechanist with flamethrower was my nightmare, when blocks are depleted, dodge is recharging and healskills are somewhat meh(1AA form enemy is roughly same as full healup), I became dps golem. just eating everything. so everything that can kite and use range constant preassure with ease always had upper hand.
But to not be this negative(which is good in those times heh). I had a blast with the class, in 1v1 or as side noder It felt good, it rewards patiance, it can use that ubercombo GS5+Sw3+dodge, this when lands is satisfying. Having 10(8 cuz elites) utilities on demand feels good, but we cannot abuse them like FB can, beacause of energy, which is also good. We can pick and choose.

here if you are interested, is little bit more 

 

-Greatsword

- GS feels good
-change to GS4 was great, longer block, little window so you cannot double tap that, even dmg on second part of the skill is lot better( or I wasnt lucky enough in beta 2)

-GS5 is just strooonk, sometimes RNG will meme you but sometimes it blesses you, overall i always(if in range) get my xy hits.
   shorter casttime is a bless

-GS3 is lovely skill but still work strange, it movese sometimes only 300units sometimse 500, outside of that it feels good, shorter aftercast is great, maybe just a little bit lower CD, not much but 15sec is a lot.(hint 12? 😄  )

GS2- wonderful just change that animation( for enemies to react)

GS aa chain, well i never was quick enough to hit someone more then 1x so idk 😄

 

-Dodge

-All of them have a use and thats fantastic, if I wanna be more supporty i go heal dodge, more agressive? lest go with boon dodge. And PvE have dps dodge as well.
-New landing crash animations are sweet.
 

-Alliance (oh boy)

-it is far better(my personal opinion) then it was in Beta2, I had a blast with Alliance and I didnt want to change it for shiro or else, it pushed me to different playstyle and I(playing herald for ages) liked it a lot. It still have its problems but I liked it.

-F2 is lot better with lesser cost when you are in need to dodge.

-F3 is great BUT, lower or delet casttime, add some effect for ppl to know i switched to Blue or Red, switch alone does not threathens anyone, it does not proc dmg traits on swap so there should be no problem with no casttime, it will maybe help smoother flow between red and blue

-For F3 I have here unpopular opinion 😄 - lower CD on this OR make it affected by alacrity. I think it would be good. Flowing from blue to red would be again, smoother.

 

Heals-
I think both of them can heal a little tiny little bit more +100-200 per pulse, not too much or it will be just OP. I dont have a problem if healing side will be little bit better with BLUEcause i can stack might with RED one. It is not best heal but we get 2. If both were 6k heals it will be nuts and pretty op.

 

Nomad Advance and Battle Dance(movements)-

NA can hit pretty hard, I was scared with 3s and 20Energy(will it be spammy, will it be too much cost), but it is good. Finaly you again have that "I have to choose with utility I use" where do I spend my energy. Distance traveled is good too. Jalis road+this is daze boys.
BD is bugged cuz it have 3sec cooldown instad of 1. But even that it is pretty good. Still trying to get used tooim not in evedaframe right after the click, but its getting better.

 

Reavers Rage and Awakening(stunbreaks)-

RR - I was wondering how it feels to have cc on stunbreak, and I had problems with it at first, but then it plays out pretty nice. When I got stuned ppl want to spike me, I wait for their cast and bam -> interupted and I got stability. I used it offensively sometimes because, I will get stability on hit too so I dont have to worry about 1 or 2CC for few sec. This was nice decision making. So im kinda OK with that.

A - used only if got cced in blue, shared stunbreak sounds cool but idk if I ever managed to help somebody with it, but its cool utility.

 

Scavanger Burst and Tree Song-

SB- I actualy didnt used this as much, when I was left with some energy before swap for quickness and Fury or when I was approaching fight from distance. I was saving more for Reavers Rage, but as opener of energy drain it was fantastic.

TS - I love this one, finally i dont have to run and loose node because rev got condicleanse! Wooo. It helps me survive on node condies. I was thinking if it is overpowerd, but when I look back, if I was targeted with heavy condi class or node lets say, and I was in BLUE, i was using this a lot, but it got me defensive, I lost my offensive powers for exchange to surviving this preasure.

 

Elites-
Well. I used urn once, got stuned and died. Spear is like expensive GS2 on 2000range and too 2/3 did not reached my target, and those who did, they did like 1-3k dps. We have to get used to those spells. Because those are only thing that made me think, ah, this skill is related to this dude I just channeled right? They are lore skills and only thing that is somewhat tied to lore and legend itself, you dont see it anywhere else like with Herald where is dragon animation on all spells.

I dont think Spear needs some huge dmg buffs etc. I dont want this class be overpowered. But I think they can make this little bit more interesting, mainly spear. Urn have its use in party fights when you get stability.

 

Traits

-No problem with dodge traits
-No problem with 10% modifier/condicleanse/or boons on skills traits

-But I have problem with energy generation traits, I dont see why would I choose Reaver's Curse or Angsiyan Trust over Song of Arboreaum. Song should be added as first minor and this line can be used as alliance or class enhancer for more healing role etc.
getting 5 or 10 endurance on dodge when it cost 100 is not very impactful, I know they cannot boost it cuz it will be OP. or add something else to them. That will play with alliance or help fill roles that vindi have to cover.

There is build I played if ppl wonder what the hack Im talking about :http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAExflZSHsTyhlSNMU6hpSfsSKgpsVX0F-z5IWGZWC9mBOPA

All above mentioned apply if fight is 1v1, I found myself suffer very much in like 3v3 -5v5, where my healup, blocks and dodges just were not enugh, esspecialy if i was targeted. This would be better to take staff/gs and saint shield dodge maybe.

sorry for my english, not native speaker

 

 

Nice feedback, I love your take. I'm using almost a similar build for WvW except I have Retribution 1-2-1 instead of Devastation and I use Saint's Shield for the dodge.

For Urn I think that they should make just a small change for having it available for solo play: make it possible to double tap and get some heal like that without being interrupted so easily. This way if you're in a group you leave the upkeep as is, if you're solo/roaming you can just doubletap it to get more heal/barrier. 

This would also solve the fact that the healing skills are weak. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Kidel.2057

[Jthug.9506]

Personally for wvw gvg play I am very happy that there isn't any cc on the gs. However if they were going to put it somewhere I believe it should be on the leap and even then maybe only if traited to do so... I am glad they added the 5 target 1.5s daze on the stun break however. I still find getting to battle dance for disengagement to be a bit awkward for me, but it could be down to my key binds. Also I wanted to shout out the cool down reduction on scavenger burst, feels good.

 

Unfortunately spear of archemorus is still hot garbage, it almost always misses anyone you shoot it at if they are moving at all, the wind up time is HUGE and the damage is mediocre. Honestly I would prefer it function like DH pull and be reliable, even if the damage was never great. Even better would be to move this to an Fkey and give LA some kind of damage based upkeep elite skill ala impossible odds in shiro.

 

Although I don't use it much the Urn of St. Viktor seems pretty bad as well still even though it's been improved slightly. I don't know how I would even modify this to make it attractive to use at all, it just seems weak. 

[Rym.1469]

PvP perspective:

Traits - solid. Nothing to add, everything in place and viable, things to grab for multiple builds. Big like.

Alliance Stance: I enjoyed the swapping playstyle of the previous beta, but now that the swaps are entirely manual Alliance Stance is a lot stronger, no doubt. All skills are useful, Urn Elite is the only one that I'm not quite sure what to do with - the damage reduction is enticing for sure, but dropping urn is slow so it's hard to use it as a DR toggle (for reliable healing its a bit too small radius) and it may in general be not worth for non-support builds, however I'm not sure if it is a problem. Luxon mobility skill (advance something) should probably be higher cooldown if it doesn't hit an enemy/higher cost+ refund some Energy on hitting enemy - as it is rn, the kite/out of combat mobility it offers for it's cost and cooldown is too much.

Greatsword: Some animations could be changed to be more distinct, like #2 and flipover #4 which look like autoattack + autoattack doesn't seem to have a correct cleave radius (too narrow, not full frontal 180). GS 5 probably needs some tuning, this thing can truly K.O. people on the spot if terrain makes it clump up or the RNG spread is favourable. In general the RNG should probably be toned down or go entirely.

Aside from that, solid job on the Elite. Some number tuning needed here and there, but it does what it says on the tin and should be a lot of fun. Probably the most finished spec out of the EoD ones as of now.

One thing: Maybe add some more Combo Finishers around the place? That's an EoD issue in general, but worth a mention. Dodges feel like they could be Blast Finishers for sure.

Oh, also - Maybe reduce the amount of conditions removed by Tree Song to 3 or 4. Five conditions removed, healing, regeneration and a lot of endurance is probably a bit too much for 20 Energy 3s cd cast lol.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Rym.1469
.

[Puck.3697]

Yeah tbh some parts of it are overpowered some parts of it feels lacking. 

Greatsword 5s damage in spvp is ludicrous high I was nearly one shotting some players with a berserker build with this ability and it seems not easy to avoid realistically. Even people who teleported away it'd hit them regardless. 

The leaps damage seems now in a good place, some say it's too strong. But it should be high damaging as it's the litterally throwing away defensive CDs to use making it a high risk ability to use. 

Spear still isn't near reliable enough to work let alone at a 2k yard range. 

I felt the damage outside of gs5 was rather low it felt very much reliant around that single nuke combo but at the same time jalis taunt into hammers, dodge roll and then gs5 was overkill on most targets. 

It felt very squishy when in a 1 on 1 but maybe that's the beserker builds fault. It was kinda get the combo off and murder them or die in the long fight. 

It had moments where it felt insane. And other moments I felt like I got instantly rinsed. Overall it felt strong in spvp with maybe some things feeling alittle overturned such as gs5

I primarily only do spvp with it so most of my experience is from that. 

 

[Fomivee.3065]

Spear still hits like a wet noodle 😞

 

You can still get CCed and even downed while dodging sometimes. Dodge still feels too heavy / clunky.

 

I love 50 endurance gain on click, I love not having to mix the utilities now. I had no problem with GS even in previous beta, now it's even better.

 

Spec needs some more work but it's on a good track.

[Zaret.1450]

As far as i have seen its going in the right direction, having the aliance split is much more usefull and smooth, the dodge is much better too ( maybe dps one needs a bit more of dmg for the time youre on air), and archemorus skills are better too, i have a couple suggestions for changes so here we go:

1 I think archemorus spear should be a bit better, the torment is useless and seriously noones gonna play condi nor hibrid vindi having renegade, so 2 options there, either make it knockdown or stun (basicaly a cc to have more cc on legend), the other one would be increasing dmg based on target current life, for example if target is under 50% life make the damage be 1.5  and under 25% life x2.5 dmg for example, that way you get either more utility or dmg being usefull in pve and in pvp and wvw you make use of the range of the skill to either cc or lasthit an enemy.

2 I think gs3 could get a pull, like the pull made by the raptor when you dismount, you could decrease its dmg and make it a pull so it is much more usefull overall.

3 all archemorus skills have similar dmg wich is fine but i think the explosion should have a bit more dmg as its more aggresive than a dash and a stun, that increase could also cover the dmg lost on gs5 on medium and small hitboxes

4 gs5 is too similar to citadel bombardment where you need a big hitbox enemy to land it, or being surounded by enemies, truth be told its not bad on pve but that random component makes it loose too much dmg sometimes, maybe making explosion areas bigger or smth could help.

Im not talking about vicky because im not that into healers, if i had to say smth itd be, give vindi healer an unique buff and a good roster of boons to make it apealing on raida fractals.

Hope you like my proposals and if so please like so anet sees them ^^

[Will.9785]

What's up with the hitbox on the GS auto-attack?  I knew it felt off but I didn't know it was this bad.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/r7b83f/my_one_complaint_about_vindicator_5_targets/

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Will.9785

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

Vindicator feedback, round 2..

 

Mechanic change so stuff only flips when we press the new F3 is AMAZING and fixes a lot of clunkyness. 
This fixes a lot of the issues Vindicator had with reliably accessing its skills. That reliability however also makes it harder to balance, because every buff you make to one half somewhat trickles down to the other half of the alliance.

Power damage is still not high enough. 

Vindicator has gotten stronger, but it's not quite there yet imo, it could still use just a tad more.

Dodge changes make them look better now.

The changes made to these were good. In some cases too spammable maybe.

Many traits still need help (like Redemptor’s Sermon and the stamina master traits). 

Redemptor's Sermon is still crap and cannot be reliably triggered, the stamina traits still lead to a situation where you pick the best and leave the other two in the dust forever, Amnesty does not do enough to push support roles.

Support Vindicator still won’t be a thing.
Still needs a niche when traited properly, let Victor bring Barrier and aegis to the table at least. Urn of Saint Victor is still utter thrash. 

 

Archemorus got a minimal amount of CC, could use more. 

And please, don't put the cc on my stunbreak, meaning if I want to stunbreak I waste my cc and vice versa.

Spear of Archemorus still hits like a wet noodle.

This should hit like a train.

 

Urn of Saint Victor is still crap.
There are no words to describe how bad this skill is. At this point I would take an unimaginative "you and people near you get 15k barrier" over its current functionality.

 

Alliance skills need more buffs and changes.
They are still boring, feel like half of a skill, or lack serious impact. Make me want to use these skills. Currently I cannot shake the feel of them being very weak, as if they were Reaper shouts.

 

Greatsword could use cc and changes to skill 4

Skill  4 is never worth it to use offensively, and GS as a weapon could use something like a pull.

 

[Infusion.7149]

3 hours ago, Fomivee.3065 said:

Spear still hits like a wet noodle 😞

Seconded.
Spear needs to be big damage in PVE for the energy it costs as it does nothing else else, there is no CC or cripple on the skill for example. Range is not a concern in PVE , only in competitive modes if you hit for big damage at 2K range as that is the only difference to Nomad's Advance. With the 3 cooldown on Mists Unleashed Greatsword skill this is especially true. If you look at Icerazor's Ire for example that is 6.0 coefficient , nearly double the damage and it isn't even split for competitive modes.

Right now 3.5 utility power coefficient is what you get on Nomad's Advance post-buff and that gives might , hits more targets, and is a gap closer. Should be something akin to Icerazor / Citadel Bombardment if it is to be made worth using as a damage skill. If not, at least have it finish downed targets (see finishing blow on daredevil) or CC. Then you'd have a use in competitive modes, even if not in PVE. The delay between cast and hitting is long enough that it wouldn't even be broken if it finished targets.

It appears Vindicator is meant as pDPS at its core with support secondary, which is why healing coefficients are 0.22 on saint victor utilities.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Buran.3796]

   Third day playing it. People saying that Vindicator has any place in PvP are crazy.

   Is literaly a toned down core Revenant which already can't compete vs Herald.

   Greatsword + anything is already inferior to swords + staff at PvP.

   You give up a second dodge and your only one now costs 100 endurance. With the dodge damage trait a full berserker Vindicator does a bit over 2K damage to the PvP heavy golem, ~4800 if crits. The equivalent of three autos from a power Herald. But you have no fury and no migth, because you gave up Herald. Not to mention that the 2 seconds jump doesn't provide i-frames for the full animation, so you can be interrupted whereas dodges are shorter but instant cast.

   Herald also provides more mobility (at no cost) and the (maybe) best healing skill in the game. Plus a soft and a hard crowd control skill. And a stunbreak which blinds and reveals in AoE. And their active skills cost no energy.

   I've been testing the Vindicator in PvP matches and WvW; greatsword will be loved in zergs due Enternity's Requiem performance in zerg vs zerg, untill gets "hammered"  (like Rev's hammer, seriously) due in PvP everyone will be complaining about how carpet bombs a huge area and provides random kills. But in 1 vs 1 is a slow hitting weapon full of large windows to be interrupted, so again the hammer comparison seems to fit. Competitive teams won't get a fraction of the Herald's burst capability and overall sustain running a Vindicator, so its role will be a one trick pony "burn guardian" meme build for lower ranked matches. Until gs #5 gets GoR'ed.

   PvE damage is heavily lagging behind condi Revenant builds (~70% more time to kill the same foes, and I'm talking about fighting targets that use cc and skills that can potentially disrupt your rOtations, not like a piñata golem which stands doing nothing) as the giants,  while also being less tanky. I tried a condi (celestial) build in WvW and does more damage, but doesn't work vs roamers with good mobility or ranged pressure (including terrormancers).

   The previous version of the Vindicator at least has fast access to dodge so was tanky, has potential as a bruiser. This new one is useless: a power spec which doesn't do better than the already existing power specs; a condi spec which lacks ranged game and sustain; a bruiser which does no damage and melts under pressute.

   Sorry but  I'm out. I will play EoD running a condi Renegade in PvE, and I'll keep using a power Herald as main build in PvP, swapping both and celestrial Herald in WvW. Vindicator was for me a solid 3-4th place amongst the 9 new specs in their first iteration, this second one is just not fun for me to play and I'll place ith 6th. 

    

Edited December 3, 2021 by Buran.3796
typos

[VoodooChurch.6513]

On 12/1/2021 at 6:45 PM, MrSunBro.7629 said:

On 12/1/2021 at 6:45 PM, MrSunBro.7629 said:

What if using either side for a period of time buffed you when you swapped to the other? For example, you use Viktor's skills and are granted a stack of "Viktor's Resolve." Flipping while having some stacks would buff you with an intensity/duration stacking boon for a longer duration. At max stacks, say 5, you gain an additional unique boon upon swapping (i.e swapping from Viktor grants Protection and Aegis for 10s).

I really like this idea. The Alliance Stance makes more sense if the two heroes work together in some way, and since auto flipping between the two wasn't well received, incentivizing players to switch periodically between the two heroes might make playing the spec more fun and interesting.

 

My suggestion would be every time you use one of your current hero's skills, you get a stack of something and, for each stack you have, you can use a stronger version of one of the other hero's skills. This might help alleviate some of the issue with gearing, too. Since if you wanted to go full power gear, you may not necessarily have the stats to make your blue skills worth using, and vice-versa. 

 

 

[Orion Templar.4589]

Really liking Vindicator 2.0 as compared to the prior beta. The ability to swap legendary stances on demand rather than the individual skill swap feels a lot better, and the endurance on demand skill helps (a bit) make up for the single dodge. One oddity I noticed is each time I dismount my skills are back to the blue ones, even if the red ones were equipped when I mounted. Not sure if that's a bug, but it is frustrating. I'd prefer the skills stay on whichever stance they were at when I mounted.

[Zenith.7301]

Why do Luxon utility skills continue to have condition skills on a spec that is not supposed to be a condition spec nor has the tools to support it?

 

Remove the burning off the Luxon utility skill (Scavenger Burst), and remove the torment off the Elite (Spear of Archemorus). Instead, put CC/weakness/blind and up the power damage coefficients, especially for Spear of Archemorus,

 

I also have to say, why in hell does swapping between Archemorus and St. Viktor have a cast time, when swapping to other legends does not?

 

Why does the core spec mechanic of Essence Meld have a 1/2 cast time and costs energy just to regain 50 endurance and nothing else?

 

Kalla gives me 15-20 permanent stacks of might, Alacrity, and an aoe nuke on top of far more impactful utility skills. I am running Invocation+Shiro+Vindicator and using all the Luxon skills I can barely maintain 12 might.

 

This is because you gave us garbage Reaper shouts. REAPER SHOUTS SUCK IN ORGANIZED PVE, WHY ARE YOU GIVING US SKILLS WITH SHORT BASELINE DURATION BOONS SCALING PER ENEMY HIT?

 

IN PVE RAIDS AND DUNGEONS YOU WILL RARELY HIT MORE THAN 1-3 TARGETS, 3 STACKS OF MIGHT FOR 4 SECONDS PER TARGET WILL NOT CUT IT. IT'S TERRIBLE.

 

Stop with the skills being balanced around hitting 4-5 mobs, they're awful in organized PvE.

 

I will never be able to justify using Legendary Alliance in raids or fractals, not with this current abysmal tuning.

 

Nobody uses reaper shouts in PvE, why would you translate that failed set of utility skills to another class as well?

[Angesombre.4630]

One thing I don't find great is having a dodge that allows you to buff barrier or DPS with one dodge but when fighting bosses with certain attacks you have to make a crucial choice of either boost or dodge which takes away the whole concept of dodge. In either case if you choose to dodge you are not useful in DPS or support... In the best of the cases to have 2 dodges.
If I could have the opinion of those who could test more in group.
It should not resemble the FB but it does not have the right to 2 dodges in pve like the mesmer, nor 3 like the thief.

I would like to know what he should have. It puts regen in blue, but in red nothing for the group.

Another remark, he must be a hybrid, well ok, but he has no real healer role, no real dps role, and no support role because he doesn't really bring anything to the group. How should we use him in HL content?

Edited December 3, 2021 by Angesombre.4630

[Riot Inducer.8964]

Overall I very much enjoyed this iteration of Vindicator. Having the swap between Archemorus and Viktor really lets each one shine in their own way and you can much more effectively make use of their strengths. My only gripes with this change are the cast time for the swap, which feels bad, and also that the cooldown of the swap could feel restrictive at times.

Greatsword once again felt good and I definitely appreciate it's place as a wide AoE weapon vs dual swords more relatively focused dps. 

The dodge leaps are also quite good with them balanced this way imo. Building towards endurance regen is fun especially the different ways you can go about it with the traits for the spec and core rev.

Shorter response for me here but that's mainly because I quite like the spec and only have a couple pain points with it.

[BlueTurtle.9263]

The spec feels a lot less awkward to play now that the player doesn’t have to manage flipping the two stances. 
That said, energy meld still has the problem of it being now useless for other legends besides the legendary alliance. It can keep its new functionality as an endurance gain but it needs to also have its old functionality back as an energy gain as the other legends suffer from lack of a means of restoring energy besides legend swapping.

 

I don’t understand the greatsword buffs. Last beta, I felt the greatsword was needed to be nerfed not made better. 
Vulnerability and chill on a 1 chain is too strong. Chill is nearly a hard CC, it should not be on a spamable skill like a weapon chain. It already gets a chill on the 3 and can take a trait to apply it on the dodge as well, it doesn’t need more. This is made even stronger if a player makes a condition build centered around the corruption trait that applies torment on chill

The 5 is supposed to be a mobbing tool but it felt like it hit single targets too consistently and now gets even more guaranteed hits? The damage needs come way down if the randomness does too.

[Settes.3960]

Vindicator beta 2 is much better than beta 1.

 

Spear of Archemorus is still totally useless, it should be reworked or deleted.

 

I wanted to test it much more than during first beta, but I can't. The decision to have Viktor skills after each dismount or rally from downstate is terrible. It's even worse that you have those skills even if you mounted or went to downstate on Jalis for example and later swap to Alliance. As a revenant main, I don't want to play Alliance it in this state at all.

[Dhonti.5162]

Not only vindicator but just in general for all revenant specs: Why do all other classes have the choice out of 4 skills to fill the skill bar (7,8,9) while the skills of all rev specs only have 3. This makes these specs set in stone where actually a difference could be made for power or condi or support to add more flavor, just by adding an extra skill to choose from. 

 

[Waldorn.5643]

First off, i am a "competetive" PvE Player (Fractals and Raids), so my feedback will be based on that part of the game:

I really like the gameplay of Vindicator! I tested some builds and those are my observations and potential fixes to the issues i see:

 

DPS

DPS-Vindicator is really fun and i really like the Fact, that you are able to support your Team on the fly by simply swapping the Alliance-Spells if needed. I also really like to be able to adjust the Dodge-Trait for max DPS or Heal and Barrier.

Right now, with a "perfect" Rotation, I can hit more or less as hard as a pDPS Renegade, which in my eyes is a Problem, since Renegade does have Dodges, CC and much more sustain. As vindicator, you have to be really careful not to die, since you are using your dodge for damage or heal. To compensate for this, Vindicator should do clearly more pDPS than Renegade.

TLDR: DPS is fun, it has a lot of utility, but it should have more DPS to make up for the missing sustain and dodges

 

Boon Support DPS

To be a Boon Support DPS, a class has to provide boons while maintaining a decent DPS (like Alac Renegade). With Vindicator for this kind of Build, most of the Boon-Share comes with the second Dodge-Trait, meaning you want to dodge as often as possible to hold Boons up. The Problem with that is, that you can not do DPS while dodging, so the DPS is really really bad when you want to hold Boons.

One solution for this would be to let us double-tab the dodge, so we can land early and don't have to "waste" 2 seconds in the air without doing anything. This would give us the choice to evade for any time between say 0.5 to 2 seconds, depending on the situation.

TLDR: Boons are maintained by the second dodge trait, but dodge equals no dps. Let us double-tab the dodge to end it whenever we want (between 0.5-2 seconds) instead of always "wasting" 2 seconds.

 

Heal Boon Support

Thanks to other specs being so overloaded with boons, to be viable in the current meta, a new support needs to provide some important Boons, otherwise there is no reason for partys and squads to accept them into their composition.

These important Boons are: Might, Fury, Protection and Alacrity or Quickness

Although the heal from Vindicator is great, only healing is not enough for a support to be viable in PvE!
In the current version, Scavenger Burst (Quickness + Fury) does not share boons, which means you can only provide Might, Protection, Regeneration and Vigor. This, like i explained, is not enough to make vindicator viable as a support in a PvE scenario, because there are other classes out there, that can simply provide those boons PLUS Fury and Quickness.

If Scavenger Burst would share its boons, it could compete with existing meta supports. This class would have the potential to be a very strong 5 man support!

TLDR: Supports have to provide some important boons, to be viable. Let Scavanger Burst share boons (Quickness + Fury), this would instantly make the whole spec really good as a heal boon support!

Edited December 3, 2021 by Waldorn.5643

[Zaret.1450]

As far as i have seen its going in the right direction, having the aliance split is much more usefull and smooth, the dodge is much better too ( maybe dps one needs a bit more of dmg for the time youre on air), and archemorus skills are better too, i have a couple suggestions for changes so here we go:

1 I think archemorus spear should be a bit better, the torment is useless and seriously noones gonna play condi nor hibrid vindi having renegade, so 2 options there, either make it knockdown or stun (basicaly a cc to have more cc on legend), the other one would be increasing dmg based on target current life, for example if target is under 50% life make the damage be 1.5  and under 25% life x2.5 dmg for example, that way you get either more utility or dmg being usefull in pve and in pvp and wvw you make use of the range of the skill to either cc or lasthit an enemy.

2 I think gs3 could get a pull, like the pull made by the raptor when you dismount, you could decrease its dmg and make it a pull so it is much more usefull overall.

3 all archemorus skills have similar dmg wich is fine but i think the explosion should have a bit more dmg as its more aggresive than a dash and a stun, that increase could also cover the dmg lost on gs5 on medium and small hitboxes

4 gs5 is too similar to citadel bombardment where you need a big hitbox enemy to land it, or being surounded by enemies, truth be told its not bad on pve but that random component makes it loose too much dmg sometimes, maybe making explosion areas bigger or smth could help.

Also archie heal is a bit meh i think but dunno how to change it.

Im not talking about vicky because im not that into healers, if i had to say smth itd be, give vindi healer an unique buff and a good roster of boons to make it apealing on raida fractals.

Hope you like my proposals and if so please like so anet sees them ^^

[Zaret.1450]

28 minutes ago, Waldorn.5643 said:

First off, i am a "competetive" PvE Player (Fractals and Raids), so my feedback will be based on that part of the game:

I really like the gameplay of Vindicator! I tested some builds and those are my observations and potential fixes to the issues i see:

 

DPS

DPS-Vindicator is really fun and i really like the Fact, that you are able to support your Team on the fly by simply swapping the Alliance-Spells if needed. I also really like to be able to adjust the Dodge-Trait for max DPS or Heal and Barrier.

Right now, with a "perfect" Rotation, I can hit more or less as hard as a pDPS Renegade, which in my eyes is a Problem, since Renegade does have Dodges, CC and much more sustain. As vindicator, you have to be really careful not to die, since you are using your dodge for damage or heal. To compensate for this, Vindicator should do clearly more pDPS than Renegade.

TLDR: DPS is fun, it has a lot of utility, but it should have more DPS to make up for the missing sustain and dodges

 

Boon Support DPS

To be a Boon Support DPS, a class has to provide boons while maintaining a decent DPS (like Alac Renegade). With Vindicator for this kind of Build, most of the Boon-Share comes with the second Dodge-Trait, meaning you want to dodge as often as possible to hold Boons up. The Problem with that is, that you can not do DPS while dodging, so the DPS is really really bad when you want to hold Boons.

One solution for this would be to let us double-tab the dodge, so we can land early and don't have to "waste" 2 seconds in the air without doing anything. This would give us the choice to evade for any time between say 0.5 to 2 seconds, depending on the situation.

TLDR: Boons are maintained by the second dodge trait, but dodge equals no dps. Let us double-tab the dodge to end it whenever we want (between 0.5-2 seconds) instead of always "wasting" 2 seconds.

 

Heal Boon Support

Thanks to other specs being so overloaded with boons, to be viable in the current meta, a new support needs to provide some important Boons, otherwise there is no reason for partys and squads to accept them into their composition.

These important Boons are: Might, Fury, Protection and Alacrity or Quickness

Although the heal from Vindicator is great, only healing is not enough for a support to be viable in PvE!
In the current version, Scavenger Burst (Quickness + Fury) does not share boons, which means you can only provide Might, Protection, Regeneration and Vigor. This, like i explained, is not enough to make vindicator viable as a support in a PvE scenario, because there are other classes out there, that can simply provide those boons PLUS Fury and Quickness.

If Scavenger Burst would share its boons, it could compete with existing meta supports. This class would have the potential to be a very strong 5 man support!

TLDR: Supports have to provide some important boons, to be viable. Let Scavanger Burst share boons (Quickness + Fury), this would instantly make the whole spec really good as a heal boon support!

Id be fine with a suport healer but not with the sup dps, we already have alacrene completely overshadowing prene, i dont want vindi to be seen as an alacrene without alac so its useless, a bit more utility in cc and more dmg is fine but the suport should be covered by vicky so it is an appealing healer.

[Puck.3697]

14 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

 Third day playing it. People saying that Vindicator has any place in PvP are crazy.

   Is literaly a toned down core Revenant which already can't compete vs Herald

Rly? I was 1 shotting players with it. 

Jalis taunt into hammers, dodge into gs5 and that's overkill against almost anything.

There's a reason many screech it needs nerfing 😂 the damage is ludicrous high as of current. 

[Zaret.1450]

37 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Rly? I was 1 shotting players with it. 

Jalis taunt into hammers, dodge into gs5 and that's overkill against almost anything.

There's a reason many screech it needs nerfing 😂 the damage is ludicrous high as of current. 

i dont think it needs nerfs, i mean if you burst someone unprepared youll delete him, archemorus focuses on dmg so it makes sense to delete people if they do nothing, i have been deleted many times in pvp because of that, that said it is a good elite, needs some improvements in some fields but its good