Vindicator Feedback Thread

[Xaxxus.6719]

Spear of Arch is pretty bad.

 

The damage it produces is too little for how long it takes to wind up.

 

Maybe add a huge knockback to it so we have at least one skill that can help break defiance bars.

[sgs.4523]

5 hours ago, Xaxxus.6719 said:

Spear of Arch is pretty bad.

 

The damage it produces is too little for how long it takes to wind up.

 

Maybe add a huge knockback to it so we have at least one skill that can help break defiance bars.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAEZlZSMsTyjlSdMUijpSksSigJ/lesD-zRRYbhUjfOquqGCj+UtqqMvIhxfNUY0C-e

 

use approximately this setup, you want to use Scav burst for fury then dodge into combat to proc the Vindicator traits for 25% damage buff and then cast the spear.. You deal right away 45% more dmg, then when mob hp drops below 50% you proc the eagle rune and deal 35% more dmg.  make sure you dodge off cooldown, finish off the mobs with your dodge as stamina sigils refill your endurance immediately, use energy meld as well to refill the endurance and you'll always have that damage increase :)

[Zaret.1450]

15 hours ago, Vexona.6452 said:

I would like to also point out that the leap replacing dodge feels... terrible. You're out of the fight for almost two seconds waiting to land and you have to hope you aren't landing in something bad. At least with the dodge replacement on Mirage you're actively still dodging and set up for axe 2/3. I get you put leap in the game to fulfil some childhood fantasy but there are other ways to incorporate the leap. Honestly it should be part of the actual kit for a CC breaker since you've given us 0 as a GS user.

The evade in fact is pretty powerfull, the dmg one does more dmg than even aechemorus spear, the healing one ia good for sustain but the 3 one, expanding boons? do we realy give boons that alies want extended? i mean maybe alac with ventary but we already have herald doing the same thing, making the 3 evade cc could be great but id better cc with gs3 and upgrade evade mecanicaly, like preasing evade a second time makes you land beforehand for example or inatead of 100 make it 70 or something to make evades more fluid.

[Zaret.1450]

5 minutes ago, sgs.4523 said:

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAEZlZSMsTyjlSdMUijpSksSigJ/lesD-zRRYbhUjfOquqGCj+UtqqMvIhxfNUY0C-e

 

use approximately this setup, you want to use Scav burst for fury then dodge into combat to proc the Vindicator traits for 25% damage buff and then cast the spear.. You deal right away 45% more dmg, then when mob hp drops below 50% you proc the eagle rune and deal 35% more dmg.  make sure you dodge off cooldown, finish off the mobs with your dodge as stamina sigils refill your endurance immediately, use energy meld as well to refill the endurance and you'll always have that damage increase 🙂

on open world you could do that on mobs, but for example on golem you already have a perfect environment, with fury vulne power etc, evwn there spear has the same dmg as nomad advance (i think its that skill) and the evade itself deals more dmg, maybe not exactly more but the same more or less, that is a problem, an elite skill needs to be the most powerfull, it is an elite after all so increasing its dmg or getting it some cc for example would balance it.

and nooooo geting a bit more cc or dmg on vindicator wont break the game, more cc would just make it as good as Renegade and a bit more dmg would make it the go to build for power revenants, wich makes sense, a 37-38k build with just enought cc on pve, on wvw and pvp a bit of cc wouldnt harm and the dmg balance is independent of pve. I mean theres no reason not to buff it a bit and there are reasons to buff it.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

8 hours ago, zaswer.5246 said:

The evade in fact is pretty powerfull, the dmg one does more dmg than even aechemorus spear, the healing one ia good for sustain but the 3 one, expanding boons? do we realy give boons that alies want extended? i mean maybe alac with ventary but we already have herald doing the same thing, making the 3 evade cc could be great but id better cc with gs3 and upgrade evade mecanicaly, like preasing evade a second time makes you land beforehand for example or inatead of 100 make it 70 or something to make evades more fluid.

The Boon Extension dodge is actually the better of the two support dodges (at least for Instanced PvE).  It allows a Support Vindicator to do permanent 5 man Alacrity/25 Might/Protection/Vigor/Regen + Stability (Jalis) + very high uptimes on Fury/Swiftness (Rune of the Pack) on top of extending all other boons provided by other allies (quickness, etc.) MORE OFTEN than Herald (dodge is more spammable than Herald F2) making it much easier to maintain a full set of boons for your party.  The healing/barrier dodge is good, but in reality since supports are brought specifically for boons most of the time (and especially now with "mirror" comp returning) the boon extension/prot/might dodge just ends up being far better and enables Vindicator as a legitimate raid/fractal support.

I wouldn't want it to change to CC when you already have access to Staff.  More importantly, a DPS build IS NOT going to take the "middle dodge" ever just for the CC because in doing so you lose the Big Damage Dodge which also gives the 15% extra damage modifier.  This would be a horrible tradeoff.  IF CC needs to get added to the spec it does not need to be added to the dodge.

Edited March 4, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Za Shaloc.3908]

1 hour ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

The Boon Extension dodge is actually the better of the two support dodges (at least for Instanced PvE).  It allows a Support Vindicator to do permanent 5 man Alacrity/25 Might/Protection/Vigor/Regen + Stability (Jalis) + very high uptimes on Fury/Swiftness (Rune of the Pack) on top of extending all other boons provided by other allies (quickness, etc.) MORE OFTEN than Herald (dodge is more spammable than Herald F2) making it much easier to maintain a full set of boons for your party.  The healing/barrier dodge is good, but in reality since supports are brought specifically for boons most of the time (and especially now with "mirror" comp returning) the boon extension/prot/might dodge just ends up being far better and enables Vindicator as a legitimate raid/fractal support.

I wouldn't want it to change to CC when you already have access to Staff.  More importantly, a DPS build IS NOT going to take the "middle dodge" ever just for the CC because in doing so you lose the Big Damage Dodge which also gives the 15% extra damage modifier.  This would be a horrible tradeoff.  IF CC needs to get added to the spec it does not need to be added to the dodge.

 

I can totally envision this build in its pieces but I am curious about the rotation. Any vids or rotation guides on it? And for weapons do you need mace for might blasting or is all the might based on the dodge?

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

24 minutes ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

I can totally envision this build in its pieces but I am curious about the rotation. Any vids or rotation guides on it? And for weapons do you need mace for might blasting or is all the might based on the dodge?

So it's possible with Herald due to the boon extension.  I haven't played it yet with Vindicator, only theorycrafted it, but Vindicator has much more frequent boon extension so it will function much better and more consistently than the Herald version.  The rotation with Herald was pretty much "Natural Harmony 4-5 times in Ventari + boon extension in Herald and do whatever."  So pretty much just that for Vindicator but supplement the dodge as much as you can instead.  For a full support build, I do think Mace/Axe + Staff is superior unless you need the Vuln from sword.  Energy sigil can be taken to maximize frequent dodges.  The might should be consistently 25 with the dodge alone at 100% BD, but Amnesty of Shing Jea should help to easily keep it maxed if just the dodge isn't enough.  Mace + Firefield would make that more consistent for sure

Edited March 4, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Za Shaloc.3908]

16 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

So it's possible with Herald due to the boon extension.  I haven't played it yet with Vindicator, only theorycrafted it, but Vindicator has much more frequent boon extension so it will function much better and more consistently than the Herald version.  The rotation with Herald was pretty much "Natural Harmony 4-5 times in Ventari + boon extension in Herald and do whatever."  So pretty much just that for Vindicator but supplement the dodge as much as you can instead.  For a full support build, I do think Mace/Axe + Staff is superior unless you need the Vuln from sword.  Energy sigil can be taken to maximize frequent dodges.  The might should be consistently 25 with the dodge alone at 100% BD, but Amnesty of Shing Jea should help to easily keep it maxed if just the dodge isn't enough.  Mace + Firefield would make that more consistent for sure

 

I see, thanks! I'll see if I can give it a spin on the new strikes some time this weekend to see how it goes. 

[Trickfully.1830]

Generally i think the sound design of vindicator is really good. Just Nomads Advance that is an outlier. It has an incredibly loud and sharp sound that hurts your ears. Would love if it could get either changed completely or toned down to better match the level of sound from the other abilities on vindicator.

[Telgum.6071]

Honestly, I would happily exchange half its current damage for another dodge. It won't replace Renegade in PvE, and in WvW/PvP lacking one dodge hurst.

You don't need this absurd damage, seriously. Having just a part of it and the regular double dodge would've been enough. GW2's combat system is good enough, why keep trying to reinvent the wheel?

Edited March 6, 2022 by Telgum.6071

[Thon.3780]

Just my opinion after play vindicator in pve

I have to change my play style

1. spear of Arch.  
at the beginning, I expect it as long range attack.  But it took long time. So I try to find it’s good point and I notice that arch will stay for while and I can move . 
so I change my play style by use it to distract or I will be decoy and let arch throw spear. Or use as hit and run tactic coz skill still active when you are fleeing.

2 limit dodge. 😞

I have to use phantom onslaught , nomad advance to evade by move forward instead 

if not I have to save imperial guard for emergency case.

I try to swap shiro for ripost shadow but it a bit loss for swap mechanic and 30 energies use

 

i suggest to add 1- 1.5 sec evade in phantom onslaught or nomad advances to use as support.
 

3 healing.

normally we heal when health drop by half . Now just1/4 , I have to use for both heal and attack burning.

 

I use eternity requiem as opening from long range then leap or burst. It do positive for mob but it has limit in heal although I use mark. When face mob more than 5 or 2 veterans monsters at same time

 

 

 

[Trickfully.1830]

A Nice Qol for Vindicator, would be if the icon that comes above your characters head. Would have the currently channeled legend be the one in the front of the icon.

 

Sometimes you forget if you had Saint Viktor or Archemorus active last time. And having to look down on your bar in the middle of intense combat can be a bit annoying.

 

So the idea would be say you have Archemorus active when you swap into the legend. He would be the one in the front of the icon/art above your characters head. And this way you don't have to take your eyes off the action to see which of them you had active last.

[Patrick.9531]

Could it remember which Legend you have selected when you get off the mount? I'm constantly manually changing it back.

[Ambitionz.3628]

Really dislike how the range of Mist Unleashed (GS2) doesn't match the animation, and does less damage than Maul

[InsaneQR.7412]

I wish they would give us the option for having the flipovers again. They could give us this through GM, Master or Adept traits idc. Adept is probably the best spot IMO.

I really liked the duality aspect of the alliance stance. The only improvements for the legend IMO is to give archemorus an offensive upkeep and Viktor at least some damage.

For the upkeep you could channel Archie such that your attacks will interrupt your target (upkeep cost probably high) and then you can release his spear and it deals more dmagae and more stacks of torment depending on the missing energy.

Viktor could have a bit of life steal on his skills so you siphon more with more heal power and can atleast deal a bit damage with his skills.

[Zaret.1450]

On 3/6/2022 at 7:42 PM, Telgum.6071 said:

Honestly, I would happily exchange half its current damage for another dodge. It won't replace Renegade in PvE, and in WvW/PvP lacking one dodge hurst.

You don't need this absurd damage, seriously. Having just a part of it and the regular double dodge would've been enough. GW2's combat system is good enough, why keep trying to reinvent the wheel?

its not even too much dmg, snow crows menches are around 37k, its good, but its not something insane like those 40k builds, also those 40k builds i think have more cc than vindi so.... dunno

[Zaret.1450]

5 hours ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

I wish they would give us the option for having the flipovers again. They could give us this through GM, Master or Adept traits idc. Adept is probably the best spot IMO.

I really liked the duality aspect of the alliance stance. The only improvements for the legend IMO is to give archemorus an offensive upkeep and Viktor at least some damage.

For the upkeep you could channel Archie such that your attacks will interrupt your target (upkeep cost probably high) and then you can release his spear and it deals more dmagae and more stacks of torment depending on the missing energy.

Viktor could have a bit of life steal on his skills so you siphon more with more heal power and can atleast deal a bit damage with his skills.

i at least like how they go now, i mean archie is full offensive while vicky is full defensive, it doesnt make sense to force the skill swap, i mean out of lore the 2 legends have nothing in common, and also, yeah on pvp or wvw maybe autoswap wouldnt hurt but on pve its killing the spec, now you can just press a button, choose wich one to use with no cost and go on, it works everywere just fine, if anything it would have been good if we got a new f4 mechanic like... dunno spend energy to charge mist energy and then use f4 to u leash it and do a special attack depending on your legend, or upgrading one of your skills or making your next skill energy free, something like that. not just a copi paste of swap between 2 legends? ok make it 3 and thats new mechanic.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@zaswer.5246

I mean i understand why ppl disliked it. It removed agency. I liked it because i liked the duality of the two. I dont want forced swaps back without givong us agency over it. But i would love the option to give us the automatic swapping if we wanted to. Thats why i said it would be cool if it would give us the posibility via traits.

For example, the adept traits could be like this:

Leviathan Strength: You deal more damage while your endurance is not full. Your Luxon skills have a lower cooldown.

 

Amnesty of Shing Jea: Kurzick abilities give regen, Luxon abilities give Might. When you use a Luxon ability it switches over to its Kurzick counterpart and vice versa.

Redemptors Sermon: While Struck Below the Health Threshold you heal yourself and allies arround you. Kurzick abilities have a reduced energy and upkeep cost.

 

This is just spitballing, but the core idea is to give us a better reward and tool to use a single alliance or both.

Edited March 10, 2022 by InsaneQR.7412

[Tekk.6789]

After playing vindicator for over a week now and through all EoD metas, strikes, and raids I feel I can give proper feedback on the issues I have found. And that main issue really is only having one dodge. I knew it would be an issue, but not how big of an issue it would be until I went into raids with vindicator. Any boss that requires you to dodge anything is immediately a problem since we are required to use our dodge as a dps cooldown and for dps buffs leaving us with just GS4 to block or S3 to evade.

This puts us in a situation where we need to have someone with stab/aegis to babysit us so we don't get CC'd constantly or die to mechanics that normally would require you to dodge. You could block with GS4 or evade with S3, but not everything can be blocked and both require you to have the energy lying around to use it. GS4 is superior of the two due to costs being slightly lower, being instant, and not throwing you to a random location like S3 does which could get you killed or land you in a mechanic you don't want to be in, but you are not always going to have your GS out.

This leads to issues on bosses like Deimos, Qadim1, Twin Largos, and so on where there is a heavy importance on being able to dodge. Taking away our biggest defensive to make it a dps cooldown is just bad design and makes vindicator super reliant on having 100% vigor uptime to be able to dodge more consistently on top of having other players babysit us so we don't die.

Honestly, that's the biggest issue for me. Everything else is pretty minor and I feel if the dodge issue can be fixed it would put vindicator is a lot better place. We have decent damage and great cleave. We aren't going to be a meta class, but we are still raid viable(mostly). This is my view from a dps standpoint since I have not touched the support side of things yet. Hopefully changes come in the future(soon hopefully) otherwise it will be right back to just being an alacslave again for my raid group with the occasional condi dps days.
 

[Buran.3796]

   Is so weird going to ranked PvP with a dps Vindicator build and ending having the best healing numbers of the match.... Or seeing how the most Vindicators you stack in a teamfight, the faster they kill and the harder is to put them down.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:40 AM, nikotuck.7259 said:

After playing vindicator for over a week now and through all EoD metas, strikes, and raids I feel I can give proper feedback on the issues I have found. And that main issue really is only having one dodge. I knew it would be an issue, but not how big of an issue it would be until I went into raids with vindicator. Any boss that requires you to dodge anything is immediately a problem since we are required to use our dodge as a dps cooldown and for dps buffs leaving us with just GS4 to block or S3 to evade.

This puts us in a situation where we need to have someone with stab/aegis to babysit us so we don't get CC'd constantly or die to mechanics that normally would require you to dodge.
 

This is my biggest complaint with Vindicator after doing raids and strikes with it this week.  Personally I would be fine with this level of difficulty if it had the damage to back it up, but with only decent/good levels of damage it doesn't feel rewarding to me to run Vindicator for many of the instanced content bosses for how insanely glassy it is.  This is the Elementalist of Revenant builds for sure, and just like Elementalist it suffers from "Huge Hitbox" damage inflation issues and high difficulty with lesser reward

Edited March 11, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Buran.3796]

   The problem is not "only one dodge" itself, but the "kitten you, now it costs 100 endurance". So you build a problem (removing a dodge stack in a game designed to usually have 2 saved), create the solution (traits and mechanics which help to gain endurance faster) and then create a point deficit to counter the solution to the original obstacle. Morale of the story: run Renegade, curbstomp the content and enjoy your second dodge for free.

[Thon.3780]

Just my opinion, I think ANET design each weapon for Rev in different purpose

 

staff for max CC , heal. ,    Block, evade

mace ,: max condi

axe : long range interruption 

bow : long range condi , mostly single target, interrupted. 

GS: Area attack  close range , long range   Soft cc  . Block

hammer : long range , condi area ( now got nerf)

sw : close range ,  evade ,, interrupt tempo (sw4)

 

if one weapon or one elite can do everything,  then why we need many elite or even profession?

Just 1 design is enough?

 

[Angesombre.4630]

It lacks group buffs when you see that the elementalist and necro with their new specialization can put "Quikness" so easily for the group, while the revenant's new specialization can't put such offensive buffs to his allies without having a monster dps. Ok he can do a lot of damage but compared to his constant dps. It's sad for a class that was meant to be a hybrid.....

And at least for PvE it's sad not to have an extra dodge to be more effective with the different dodges that bring a different result.

[Buran.3796]

   Some inputs after testing more the spec:

* The difference in damage from a build designed to fight in WvW/roaming (usually with Devastation + Retribution) and one designed to PvE (usually with Devastation + Invocation) is HUGE, even going full berserker in both. The gap can be even larger running Scholar runes (currently I'm using Fireworks due I don't wan't to resign to the 25% increase in movement in OW)

* The gameplay mechanics of both builds are also vastly different. Just swapping from using your evade to avoid damage and gain health + barrier to use it to hit hard and gain an extra 15% damage requires to re-wire how you approch fights. Also, I'm not sure about using Brutality, Swift Termination or Dance of Death: all of them seem to be so situational (even in PvE).

* So far not fan of running WvW/PvP builds in PvE with the Vindicator as I oftenly do with Herald and Renegade. Even with Jalis, Retribution and the third dodge trait I found that build frail in PvE and severely lacking in dps compared to the condi Renegade PvP build. Yes, power PvP vindicator does ~20%-25% more damage than power PvP herald when translated to PvE stats, but at the cost of being way more squishy and having worse cc. I did extremely poorly at HoT HPs using that build, whereas I like how I can run PvP's power Herald and condi Renegade in PvE and getting the job done with less risk.

* As general rule you'll lose in WvW vs ranged foes. Necros in particular will eat you alive. Fights vs Bladesworns and Untamed are usually very long; fights vs Willbenders, Virtuosos and Mechanits very fast and very one sided (you win or lost very fast if any of the duelers make a mistake.

* In the PvE build I would prefer Scavenger Burst to be centered on you; I find the douple tap to cast on terrain annoying and the 900 range is useless, since you don't share the boons with other people and you are a pure mele fighter with no other ranged attacks, and talking about that...

* ...Spear of Archemorus is a garbage tier elite, worth to be in the "300 seconds cooldown" list. A slow casted highly telegraphed skill which deals lower damage than a couple of autos and deals 5 stacks of torment instead of something useful as vulnerability or might or cc. I don't get why this elite exits: utterly useless for a mele build tio have a super long ranged (2000) attack which is a net loss in damage and bufs a type of damage (condition) which doesn't works with the spec. Also: the burns from Scavenger Burst do ~1/6 of the damage from Guardian's Purging flames (5700 vs 34100) with condi stats. I known that has low cooldown but the energy cost will exhaust us before getting a fraction of that damage. I prefer to have more expensive/longer cooldown skills with more impactful effects than shorter ones to (not being able) to spam.

* The Alliance helas are also ultrabad. Yes, Tree Song is very powerful, but even if I run Alliance I won't swap to Kurzik in a fight due my damage boosters are in Archemorus or the other legend; I would only run Kurzik in a support build (probably with Ventari) which means never.

    So far; I'll keep with the PvE and condi build test now. In PvP I'll finish my test in the next 15-20 ranked matches.