Bladesworn Feedback Thread

[nopoet.2960]

So I gave Bladeswarm a little more playtime and thought.  It's not a bad spec at all.  Once I stopped thinking that dragontrigger had to be this massive payoff I was able to make it work as part of my rotation.  There is still a problem though.  The dragontrigger stance is ... fickle.  It drops to easily.  I think the best thing that can happen for the spec is loosing the concept of charges.  

1. Abandon the charge up mechanic

2. Get rid of the Dragon trigger button

3. Add F2 - F4 buttons for the dragon trigger attacks

4. Give f2 - f4 some alternative function when not using sword gun perhaps based on the off hand weapon rather than the main hand

 

[mortrialus.3062]

1 minute ago, felix.2386 said:

pve is not just raid boss numbers. it is garbage to play in open world, not fluid, unfun, not fun in dungeon either.

number is the easiest thing to tweak, i can make a 1 skill stick class and make it 60k dps and would you consider it a complete spec for pve? nop.

use your brain and think, if everything does the same damage, will you still play this spec and find it fun?..the answer right now is obviously no.

 

also vindicator is the most OP new spec in PvP right now.

Vindicator with the fully support 50 energy dodge, plus the boosted perma vigor trait is getting a dodge every 5 seconds.  It makes PoF release Mirage look like necromancer.  

[Kidel.2057]

5 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

also vindicator is the most OP new spec in PvP right now.

Yes, using the only decent dodge (1/3) and NOT using the new legend. Basically escluding the spec problems. PvP/WvW vindicator is fine if you use half of the spec, it gets worse if you use the actual spec as intended (with Legendary Alliance and Alliance Tactics). 

Claiming "it's good in pvp" is a superficial statement. Only half of Vindicator is good. The rest is unusable. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Kidel.2057

[Aaron.1294]

@Jzaku.9765sry to break it down to u pal but 90% of the entire population are casuals who doesn't care about endgame. And even if raid scene was more populated, ppl would still use bladesworn - cuz it's not tied to one freakin skill.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

3 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

 

also vindicator is the most OP new spec in PvP right now.

I have seen no one in Plat even messing with bladesworn outside the arena. Even then only 1 person used it for as long as I was there yesterday. People stickied to spellbreaker, who eats BS alive more than Zerker. 

 

Vindicator has an extreme number of dodges if paired with Shiro and overall AoE pressure it's disgustingly strong. Good roamer and teamfighter. Now that's something warrior will never accomplish. 

 

Its super good, I won't say strong, because things may change. But so far it's clear to me that in pvp the list goes from best to worst:

 

Vindicator>Harbinger>Catalyst>Willbender-Virtuoso>>>Bladesworn

 

 

[felix.2386]

1 minute ago, Kidel.2057 said:

Yes, using the only decent dodge (1/3) and NOT using the new legend. Basically escluding the spec problems. PvP/WvW vindicator is fine if you use half of the spec, it gets worse if you use the actual spec as intended (with Legendary Alliance and Alliance Tactics). 

Claiming "it's good in pvp" is a superficial statement. Only half of Vindicator is good. The rest is unusable. 

doesnt matter, it is still the most op new elite spec in pvp, it is a fact.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

10 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

 

also vindicator is the most OP new spec in PvP right now.

Double thx forum

Edited September 22, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Grand Marshal.4098]

10 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

 

also vindicator is the most OP new spec in PvP right now.

Triple post bruh

Edited September 22, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Grand Marshal.4098]

10 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

 

also vindicator is the most OP new spec in PvP right now.

Fourth omg

Edited September 22, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Kidel.2057]

3 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I have seen no one in Plat even messing with bladesworn outside the arena. Even then only 1 person used it for as long as I was there yesterday. People stickied to spellbreaker, who eats BS alive more than Zerker. 

 

Vindicator has an extreme number of dodges if paired with Shiro and overall AoE pressure it's disgustingly strong. Good roamer and teamfighter. Now that's something warrior will never accomplish. 

 

Its super good, I won't say strong, because things may change. But so far it's clear to me that in pvp the list goes from best to worst:

 

Vindicator>Harbinger>Catalyst>Willbender-Virtuoso>>>Bladesworn

 

 

Sure, if you exclude half of the spec, Vin is good in pvp game game modes. This basically makes 2/3 traits useless,  the new legend less than useless and the new f2 class mechanic only useful to get endurance on other legends. 
It's fine, right?

Numbers can be tweaked. Harder to fix a whole class mechanic. 

Most pvp/wvw builds are 3-whatever-3 and shiro+jalis or shiro+mallyx. Actively excluding most of the spec because it's terrible. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Kidel.2057

[ButterPeanut.9746]

Some initial impressions.

1. The dragon trigger skills actually felt better to use than I thought, other than a few bugs. The #3 needs to track players. If you are charging this up being immobile, it should never miss just based on pathing. Should be able to go up terrain, track any WASD, etc. 

 

2. There are currently 4 "drawbacks" to this spec when compared to core warrior. This seems excessive when compared to other classes. 

1. You cannot weapon swap in combat
2. You don't have access to core weapon burst skills at all
3. You cannot use dragon trigger (your only burst skill), while outside of gunsaber.
4. Using dragon trigger (F2) puts your weapon swap (F1) on cooldown. 

That's a bit excessive. One semi side benefit of that is it basically makes discipline useless if you want to use dragon trigger at all. 

 

3. The gunsaber skills actually feel pretty good. 9/10 on that. You can back-cast them, the ammo system feels good on them (there is always something to do), which also contributes to discipline not really feeling needed. You don't end up just auto-attacking on gunsaber or wanting to swap very often. You typically have abilities to use. 

 

4. The elite is really good. It's strong but in a way that makes the spec fun to play and play against (aka you actually can use weapon skills) as opposed to something like rampage. 

 

5. The utilities do not feel good. Please revisit these before the launch. In every gamemode, warrior desperately needs new utilities. PvE wise, make a large portion of the damage based upon the utility skills/traits. We don't need another banner variant. Make it unplayable with banners. PvP wise, give us something other than EP/bulls charge. 

 

5. This was mostly from a PvP perspective. I know it's been doing big numbers PvE but how it feels to play is important as well. 

[felix.2386]

Just now, Kidel.2057 said:

Sure, if you exclude half of the spec, Vin is good in pvp game game modes. This basically makes 2/3 traits useless and the new legend less than useless. 
It's fine, right?

still better then bladesworn.

[crewthief.8649]

25 minutes ago, Tycura.1982 said:

Flow is the worst and cripples this class. Reduce it to 30 and make it instant gain or it will never compete with the other specs.

 

You've taken out weapon swap but have given us very little in return. Gunblade doesnt shine in the way of survival, mobility, and even damage as compared to greatsword or axe MH. Gunblade has no flow gain whatsoever. It doesn't carry over traits from the original weapons despite being a kit. You can use it in rampage but it's worse than rampage in every way and you can't even do Dragon Slash which might make it worth it. Except the damage in PvP is useless and so it can't even be justified then. The cooldowns are way too high in PvE. Using Dragon Slash locks you into gunblade for even longer after use but there's zero incentive to camp gunblade.

 

The irony of calling the new adrenaline mechanic flow isn't lost on me. This clunky spec flows like a particularly obstinate pile of bricks.

 

(Hopefully) You know how warrior lives and dies by it's ability to land burst skills Anet? What makes you think a spec based around a molasses slow gain of adrenaline and few and far between bursts is a good thing? It can hardly make use of the most important mechanic of the class.

 

Why is pistol melee?

 

Please go back to the drawing board this thing is a dumpster fire. Either make it rewarding to be in gunblade by giving it sustain, mobility, adrenaline, and damage or give us our weapon swaps back.

It really makes you wonder, did they not think there would be an issue if they (essentially) increased the adrenaline (I know, I know, Flow) cap from 30 to 100 but didn’t adjust values within core traits to account for this increase? I understand the need for us to beta test this stuff, but are you telling me that we needed to test that in order to identify it as an issue??? 🤔🤔🤔

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 minute ago, crewthief.8649 said:

It really makes you wonder, did they not think there would be an issue if they (essentially) increased the adrenaline (I know, I know, Flow) cap from 30 to 100 but didn’t adjust values within core traits to account for this increase? I understand the need for us to beta test this stuff, but are you telling me that we needed to test that in order to identify it as an issue??? 🤔🤔🤔

It was those good mathematicians Cal was talking about. They apparently are so good that they know 100 is more than 30! 😱🧐🤯

[ledernierrempart.6871]

22 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

But so far it's clear to me that in pvp the list goes from best to worst:

 

Vindicator>Harbinger>Catalyst>Willbender-Virtuoso>>>Bladesworn

 

 

 

bladesworn f2 sucks. but the gunblade and the pistol still is decent.
if you use a bullcharge/fury signet combo its alright. however you will never have the survivability of spellbreaker or burst damage of berserker..

also catalyst is a piece of kitten right now. the worst spec out of all.

bladesworn is IMO the best spec so far. even if f2 is kinda bad.

Edited September 22, 2021 by ledernierrempart.6871

[Kidel.2057]

3 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

still better then bladesworn.

As far as I'm reading from threads and Reddit, the general issues with BS are based on numbers and relatively minor things (such as adrenaline generation). I'm not saying they do not exist, but are problems that are easy to fix and this is still a BETA. Vindicator on the other hand requires the whole mechanic and most of the new skills to be re-done from scratch.  

I mean, the whole adrenaline debacle can be compared to the endurance generation on a 150 endurance bar for Vin. I'm not even complaining about that, it will be fixed since it's not rewarding. But that's just a number to change. not a whole mechanic. 

I don't see people saying "man the katana kit on BS is so bad, remove it and do something else"

Edited September 22, 2021 by Kidel.2057

[felix.2386]

2 minutes ago, Kidel.2057 said:

As far as I'm reading from threads and Reddit, the general issues with BS are based on numbers and relatively minor things. I'm not saying they do not exist, but are problems that are easy to fix and this is still a BETA. Vindicator on the other hand requires the whole mechanic and most of the new skills to be re-done from scratch.  

 

as far as i'm concern every big streamer knows BS is the worst unfun garbage spec and that vindicator is the most op new elite spec in pvp

Edited September 22, 2021 by felix.2386

[Kidel.2057]

Just now, felix.2386 said:

as far as i'm concern every big streamer knows BS is the worst spec and that vindicator is op in pvp

It's just based on numbers and performance. 

I don't see people saying "man the katana kit on BS is so bad, remove it and do something else". Because that's the issue with Vindicator if you don't stop at "well I guess half the class is doing decent in pvp"

[ButterPeanut.9746]

1 minute ago, felix.2386 said:

as far as i'm concern every big streamer knows BS is the worst unfun garbage spec and that vindicator is op in pvp

I dont know if unfun is the right word. There are fun parts to it, but it's definitely not super strong at the moment. 

[felix.2386]

Just now, Kidel.2057 said:

It's just based on numbers and performance. 

I don't see people saying "man the katana kit on BS is so bad, remove it and do something else". Because that's the issue with Vindicator if you don't stop at "well I guess half the class is doing decent in pvp"

you are blinded and choose not to look

[Gatvin.6510]

20 hours ago, hugo.4705 said:

This spec awesome. Here, well, nothing to be angry against. Very great job anet, my feel but this second round of specs feels better than first. I line utilities that are kind of holo barriers and a mine, remind me of engie. Definitely gonna create a character in eid for that specialization.

All the skills animations looks cool, the comvat geels dynamic. The skills have trails kinda like holosmith, i am in love. My warrior is happy and will get an eod upgrade.

My only nitpick would be about the gunblade that cannot have its skin changed. I am thinking, could we have a third weapon duo set in hero equipment pannel? Like, we select a sword skill and a pistol one and the game render the pistol put on the blade? Maybe this is not possible, in this case no worries I love the gunblade look anyway.

That's it. ;D impatient to discover what you have in store for the three remaining specs. Especially engie, cause, well, i m 9 yeaes engie main. Cya, going to try ele, i mean catalyst and add its feedback.

 

Yeah, gunblade looks awesome, but it IS a bit of a bummer that its another case where skins have 0-impact. Its a problem Engie has had since day 1 where your weapons are awesome looking, but regardless of how cool your shield is, you'll be blocking 1/2 the time or more with the Toolkit's gear shield, or spending %70 of the time with your flamethrower up, etc.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

6 minutes ago, ledernierrempart.6871 said:

 

bladesworn f2 sucks. but the gunblade and the pistol still is decent.
if you use a bullcharge/fury signet combo its alright. however you will never have the survivability of spellbreaker or burst damage of berserker..

also catalyst is a piece of kitten right now. the worst spec out of all.

Lightning Rod and Fresh Air catalysts seem quite OK to me. Good sustained dmg which the other specs lacked from range. Hammer 2 in most attunement is quite a meaty hit with a good CC paired with it and as long you stand in your Sphere you should be getting the additional buffs. 

 

Far more fluid than Bladesworn. Hammer 3 is a testament to that. 

[Gambit.9501]

As someone who doesn't often play warrior that much, I LOVE the way this elite spec feels like i'm playing a proper combo character.  What with the way how fluid Pistol 5 feels, I feel like this kind of weapon skill comboing should've been a more prevalent thing throughout GW2.  I think the people who are criticizing this spec not "having a role" need to take a step back for a moment and realize that ALL warriors in GW2 do the exact same thing, just in different ways.  The whole point of Elite specs in general is just different themeings and playstyles.  Other Action MMO games out there do this exact same thing via the various Job systems, and people love it.  Not every class needs to be like Chrono or Druid on HoT's release and have some sort of game-breaking effect it offers.

I'm not gonna speak to damage balance, because i'm 100% certain this spec is going to get nerfed either before and/or after release.  The dmg potential is just hillarious.  However I do still have some suggestions.

 

1. MAKE EXTRA SKINS FOR THE GUNSABER AFTER RELEASE!  I cannot stress this enough!  Warrior players, by and large, ARE NOT ENGIE PLAYERS.  As such, most of them don't know what it's like to have your unique weapons skins being obscured by your kit 90% of the time in combat.  If you have to make a new interface for it in the Hero panel (perhaps in the Wardrobe), then DO SO.  It's worth it.  Because otherwise, you're gonna end up with a whole bunch of Warrior players feel buyer's remorse over not being able to customize their gunsaber, due to it effectively being a kit.
    
2. I see this [Fierce as Fire] trait, and it REALLY makes me wish that Condi Bladesworn could be a viable Condi build alongside Power.  Perhaps make it so that the trait also causes Explosions to apply Burning?  On top of that, making the Dragon Slash skills apply Bleeding by 1 stack per Charge level?
    
3. Cancelling Dragon Trigger should not trigger Weapon Swap cooldown.  This is just plain restrictive.
    
4. Cyclone Trigger and Flicker Step really need some more visual flair (especially Flicker Step).  CT could use a slash effect for the blade whirl, and Flicker Step just needs... SOMETHING.  Right now it's literally nothing but a sound fx... 😂
5. Speaking of Flicker Step, this skill could stand to have a higher range increment tbh.  Sometimes it just doesnt feel like enough to escape some AOEs.  I wouldn't mind the skill having a slightly higher ammo CD to compensate.
    
6. I think Dragon Slash Boost should be an aimed movement skill, like GS 4.  It just makes more sense given how it's a wide movement attack, and it would make the skill feel WAY more fluid and free, which I think would be very much a net-positive for this elite spec.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Gambit.9501
BIG NEED

[Grand Marshal.4098]

2 minutes ago, Gambit.9501 said:

As someone who doesn't often play warrior that much, I LOVE the way this elite spec feels like i'm playing a proper combo character.  What with the way how fluid Pistol 5 feels, I feel like this kind of weapon skill comboing should've been a more prevalent thing throughout GW2.  I think the people who are criticizing this spec not "having a role" need to take a step back for a moment and realize that ALL warriors in GW2 do the exact same thing, just in different ways.  The whole point of Elite specs in general is just different themeings and playstyles.  

Core warrior identity: deal dmg and take a lot of punishment (this identity has gone over the years due to power creep). 

 

Berserker identity: much higher dps spikes than core warrior could do, becomes vulnerable due to that. 

 

Spellbreaker: better survivability than core, focuses on boonstrip

 

Bladesworn: uuuhh take flurry, hundred blades and kills hot, mix well together and server warm.

 

Jokes aside they can make BS unique by: giving it some unique Boon interaction: Protection has 40% dmg reduction in this spec and by giving it some unique feature like boonsupport. Flow stabilizer becomes an AoE 4 stab stack shared skill and Immortal Dragon heals you for an amount and the allies around you as well. 

 

Br it some heal, boonsupport, boon/condi conversion-corruption, it needs something unique. Dps won't cut it cause berserker filled that role long ago. 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

8 minutes ago, Kidel.2057 said:

As far as I'm reading from threads and Reddit, the general issues with BS are based on numbers and relatively minor things (such as adrenaline generation). I'm not saying they do not exist, but are problems that are easy to fix and this is still a BETA. Vindicator on the other hand requires the whole mechanic and most of the new skills to be re-done from scratch.  

I mean, the whole adrenaline debacle can be compared to the endurance generation on a 150 endurance bar for Vin. I'm not even complaining about that, it will be fixed since it's not rewarding. But that's just a number to change. not a whole mechanic. 

I don't see people saying "man the katana kit on BS is so bad, remove it and do something else"

The big problem with BS is that is has no real identity (yet). 

For most elite specs you can clearly see what the intend is. Where is should be used.

Like Willbender is about Roaming/PvP and Catalyst being an attempt to get Ele back into Wvw Zerging. 

BS does not have that. Mostly because Warrior has builds for every aspect of the game. They just need buffs. 

BS is not needed for anything or is even good at anything (yet). 

All it has going for it is style factor.