Bladesworn Feedback Thread

[Grand Marshal.4098]

10 minutes ago, crewthief.8649 said:

So, contrary to CMC’s musings, changing flow to 100 was not a good idea. Suggestion:

 Change flow to 30 so that it synergizes with all of the core adrenaline-building traits. OR, buff the flow-generating ability of those traits (which seems like more work). 

He did make it sound like it would be scaled properly and anything that grants adrenaline would now be able to do it in the same time but with 100 Flow being the end goal. 

 

Those methematicians man...they tryna boycott warrior I swear! 

[crewthief.8649]

4 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

He did make it sound like it would be scaled properly and anything that grants adrenaline would now be able to do it in the same time but with 100 Flow being the end goal. 

 

Those methematicians man...they tryna boycott warrior I swear! 

Yeah, they clearly missed the mark, then. There’s a saying we had when I was in the Army, “work smarter, not harder.” Making flow max-out at 100 is not an example of that.

Edited September 24, 2021 by crewthief.8649

[Rym.1469]

Pure PvP feedback really;

1. The number one issue with this spec was DTrigger putting weapon swap on cd, but it is confirmed a bug so the spec should instantly feel much better. DT triggering Intelligence and other swap sigils is an interesting part though.  

2. As pointed out previously, not having access to DT outside of gunsaber or core weapon burst when outside of gunsaber adds a lot to the clunky feeling. No core burst also devalues a lot of weapons massively because they are now zdps in PvP, but I reckon that's intended. 

3. Gunsaber skills are ok. #2 could use a bit more damage. 

4. Dragon Trigger has some issues, to say the least. First off, the initial cast ("going into trigger") has a cast time and can be interrupted and makes executing quick trigger when pressured hardly a possibility. Second, in PvP charging trigger is not useful when used for damage - it simply doesn't scale hard with time spent like in PvE. You will do far more damage charging up for 1s and autoattacking for 4 than charging up for 5s. If you charge it, you do it while capping a point or for longer stun. To add to it, while charging DT warrior is extra prone to CC which short aegis hardly solves. I'd much rather see DT #4 give short stability and giving warrior ability to dodge when charging up. 

5. The interaction of burst traits that scale with stages is totally mismatched in PvP. I'd go as far as to say that each "pip" should count as adrenaline stage or every second one. Currently Berserker's might, cleansing ire and adrenal health are worthless on bladesworn.

6. All Dragon bursts can be avoided by jumping or slight elevation. Dark Souls hit detection here.

6a. Dragon Slash is okay as a burst. This is also the skill that should benefit the most by charging up as it has the highest counterplay and is the hardest to land. 

6b. Dragon Boost (dash) is the most reliable burst out there. It also shares plenty of characteristics with a skatepark ramp, being very happy to launch warrior even 30 feet in the air. Would have a great synergy with the old fall damage trait, but I reckon it isn't supposed to behave like this unless part of the story is hosting Redbull XGames in Cantha. Jokes aside, it's also counterable by the enemy standing behind or near some pillar, because the dash is notorious for getting warrior stuck inside terrain. Other than that solid, could use damage boost but not as high as Slash.

6c. Dragon Wave (or something?). Totally useless as of right now, misses targets at point blank, can be sidestepped. Broken, unable to be tested. Could be okay vs Scourges. 

7. Pistol is a fun idea but the #5 pushback is unnecessary and it all around needs more damage to be worth considering. In the current situation with weapon swap fixed, shield or warhorn is the choice for OH, pistol being third. #4 immobilizing could be a thing. 

8. As far as utilities go, it's pretty much as expected. Elite has heavy cd in pvp but with ammo utilities and Lush Forest it's better than other options. Heal is very good with the above. Other utilities are pve utilities that have no place in PvP. Flow Stabilizer won't be worth till charging big dragon triggers becomes worthwhile or it gets a stunbreak attached. Dragon Mine could be a consideration with 20s cooldown. 

9. Traits are virtually hard carried by Lush Forest. If you are not running Lush Forest you are griefing and it is the trait that somewhat makes Bladesworn work ok in PvP. The first tier is good, in the second tier the burn one is totally out of place and the barrier one is an option only if you run 0 ammo utilities pretty much.  As for Grandmasters,  the middle one is the only option and currently is the only reason to use burst skills. Top one would have to heal for 60%+ damage done to be worth a look. Bottom one is made irrelevant by Lush Forest, because it also recharges bursts. 

10. On the last note; The current strongest Bladesworn build that runs ammo heal, triple shout and heavily abuses Lush Forest, while fun, will stop being that cute once it actually starts dealing damage. It's very vulerable to CC and chill, but it's gameplay is essentially spamming everything ammo on cooldown and camping gunsaber. And it can quickly spiral into a PvP nightmare. Shouts are more of a problem here rather than traits and new stuff, because they are by far the best ammo skills. This build, as of right now, tends to do more healing than damage running Berserker Amulet and Strength line which in itself is a commentary on it's lack of damage, but as I said, once it stops being a cute Zdps we could have a teamfighter dps that is also an excellent support on berserker amulet.

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Rym.1469

[Swiftwynd.1685]

Reading through the feedback and with some play time myself, I think one consistently requested feature / feedback is being unable to dodge during Dragon Trigger stance.

I think it would be amazingly cool and in-theme if using dodge during Dragon Trigger did a quick "shift" of your position with a unique animation, like a "zipping" forward, sideways, or backwards, which is a common trope in the Iai stance in anime and other games. Similar to how Revenant has their themed dodge with their misty step, or thief with their base dodge having a unique sound effect (not to mention Daredevil's unique dodges!)

Basically a "faster" dodge, with less evasion time, but that repositions you quickly, similar to what the short range blink is trying to accomplish. If implemented well, you may be able to remove that skill entirely and introduce something else.

I think having the following 5 skills in Dragon Trigger would be really awesome to improve its Flow and potency in PVP and make it more usable in PVE as well: (totally ripping from Monster Hunter longsword)

1. Dragon Slash - Force - Keep this as is, obviously addressing the abysmally low damage in PVP.

2. Dragon Slash - Boost - Same as above, address PVP damage. Please consider making this end at the foe when hit, OR slash through them and about-face the camera if ending up past the foe after the hit. (MHW does this with its version)

3. Dragon Slash - Reach - Consider adding a brief control element. Cripple, Immobilize, and Stun depending on the charge.

4. Dragon Slash - Triggerguard - Replace this with a Block counter attack that teleports you to the foe, dealing increased damage based on charge. Have this refund Flow or Bullets to make the next charge quicker to access. This is great for situations with unavoidable raid damage interrupting your attack, or when someone tries to counter you in PVP.

5. Dragon Slash - Flow Control - Interrupts Dragon Slash charge, gain Evasion and Superspeed for .5 second per bullet charged, and granting Flow or Bullets for each Evaded attack. This would be the ultimate "kitten I HAVE to move" option, allowing you to reposition and rejuvenate some Flow or Bullets to reset for the next attempt.

With the above changes, you would still have a very stationary weapon design for the burst that rewards being able to get off a full charge in melee range, but also allows for "less great options" when the situation changes during that attempt. It would enable quick reactions to a changing battle situation, while still heavily rewarding good timing of when you attempt to get off the perfect hit.

[Eaglebee.3540]

Keybinding:

1) F1 should now activate dragon stance. And equip the Gunsabre if on any other weapon set.
2) F2 should equip and de-quip the Gunsabre (1sec CD)
3a) Weapon Swap should be re-enabled while in combat.

3b) Swapping while the Gunsabre is equipped should prioritise stowing the Gunsabre before swapping weapon sets.

Dragon Stance:

1) Skill 1, 2 and 3 should have a ground targeting and indicators.
2) Moving or being interrupted while in dragon stance should still drop the stance and put it on cooldown, however amber shells built up should not be lost while you remain in combat.
 

[Salvatore.3749]

Since I left PvE feedback yesterday, I'm leaving my pvp feedback today.

Playing Against:

I primarily play pvp as thief or revenant. My primary build is condi core thief with a rune that provides torment on evade. My thief looked like a complete and total kitten last night playing against bladesworn. I wish I live streamed this moment. Essentially the blade sworn sheathed his gun saber and used dragon trigger two.  I timely used death blossom landed 3 stacks of bleeding, 2 stacks of poison, and 1 torment stack on the bladesworn. Since warriors require burst to remove conditions, the blade sworn's burst was gone and nothing was cooler than seeing my thief jump over the bladesworn, deal damage, and apply conditions, thus dropping the bladesworn's health to 10% rapidly. I then launched steal, applied more poison and bleeding, used dagger skill 5, swapped to P/D and used sneak attack, and he died fast. This was way too easy of a kill for me. Normally, warriors put up some kind of fight, and there was none here. 

As for another round, I came up against a vindicator and bladesworn. I focused on the vindicator as that class is still a revenant and could be a problem. I was actually 2v1ed, and they both had less than 25% health and I had 50% health, and in the pinch, I used signet of shadows which applied blind to the vindicator and bladesword as they both launched their attacks, and they were blinded so both attacks missed, and two death blossom attacks got them. 

The rounds went like this for a while and the spec was too easy to kill.

Playing As:

I have said it before, I'm not a warrior main, but when I try a new spec in pvp, I kind of expect the general all purpose equipment sets to work. Berserker/Valkyrie Amulet and Soldier or Fighter runes. 

Tried the class with rifle and then with mace and shield as weapons. I could not get it to synergize well with the group. Damage output was decent when I could attack, but reapers killed me fast, tempests killed me fast, rangers killed me fast, everything with crowd control killed me fast.

I think tactics and defense synergized best with shouts, but once I couldn't shout, I died. I was using shouts to stay alive and that sucked because I couldn't get bursts off mid-combat. I tried signets. Signets took too long to cast. I spent more time trying to cast signets and use dragon trigger than actually fighting.

  That's pretty bad. I tried roaming and soloing, that didn't work. A tempest literally ripped me to shreds 🙈.

In PvE, you don't have to compensate for players who have a brain and notice the dragon trigger, moreover, the overall playstyle against warriors is hindering mobility, evading, or applying several conditions. At one point I managed to get 3 kills in a round, but I died 9 times.

Summary:

1. There was such a sharp divide between pvp and pve performance that it was horrifying.

2. Class dies from conditions too quickly. There is not enough time to use bursts to remove conditions or activate utilities or  trait lines due to lock in place mechanism. 

3. Damage is significant, but executing attacks and combos is hard with long weapon swap cool down (used rifle and gun saber and mace and shield and gun saber). 

4. This class is easier to beat than Spellblade, Berserker, and Core Warrior. 

5. This class, as of now, is at the bottom of the PvP chain due to lack of crowd control removal or stability. 

6. I did not try banners, but if I need to remain mobile, banners are useless as I can't hug a banner due to aoe and if I get cc'ed on a node, I'm a sitting duck.

7. As for playing against, it was like shooting and stabbing fish in a barrel. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Salvatore.3749
Formatting and grammar

[Geoff Fey.1035]

35 minutes ago, Swiftwynd.1685 said:

I think it would be amazingly cool and in-theme if using dodge during Dragon Trigger did a quick "shift" of your position with a unique animation, like a "zipping" forward, sideways, or backwards, which is a common trope in the Iai stance in anime and other games. Similar to how Revenant has their themed dodge with their misty step, or thief with their base dodge having a unique sound effect (not to mention Daredevil's unique dodges!)

Basically a "faster" dodge, with less evasion time, but that repositions you quickly, similar to what the short range blink is trying to accomplish. If implemented well, you may be able to remove that skill entirely and introduce something else.

Honestly just making the dodge be Flickerstep and letting Warriors use it twice would be more than enough to meet this ask, and I really hope that's what they do.

[Axl.8924]

You know what one of the most frustrating things is? in order to use dragontrigger you have to be absolutely still and hope and pray nothing shoves you back or nothing stuns you while using it even in pve.

[Vancho.8750]

Big concern for PVE.
Bladesworn is just another DPS spec and Warrior already has Berserker so having 2 specs that compete over the same slot on the same profession doesn't seem OK.
I can see a pretty good build with tactics and shouts for bladesworn and its utilities seem like something on the supportive defense side, but it is clearly lacking reason to be a versatile spec. A boon damage buffer would be nice, it just needs some trait or skill that gives alacrity or quickness to a group of people (alacrity would fit better with all the CDs running around the mechanics and the no weapons swap thing) . 

Immortal Dragon would fit perfectly here maybe  group Alacrity based on how many charges are used on top of the heal.

[Axl.8924]

21 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Big concern for PVE.
Bladesworn is just another DPS spec and Warrior already has Berserker so having 2 specs that compete over the same slot on the same profession doesn't seem OK.
I can see a pretty good build with tactics and shouts for bladesworn and its utilities seem like something on the supportive defense side, but it is clearly lacking reason to be a versatile spec. A boon damage buffer would be nice, it just needs some trait or skill that gives alacrity or quickness to a group of people (alacrity would fit better with all the CDs running around the mechanics and the no weapons swap thing) . 

Immortal Dragon would fit perfectly here maybe  group Alacrity based on how many charges are used on top of the heal.

 

It would need a overhaul on traits i don't see anything except self heal that isn't dps line. What lines i do see of supportive sort of like the bulletproof barrier and the fence which cripples enemies, but that is about it.

[Mesket.5728]

38 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Big concern for PVE.
Bladesworn is just another DPS spec and Warrior already has Berserker so having 2 specs that compete over the same slot on the same profession doesn't seem OK.
I can see a pretty good build with tactics and shouts for bladesworn and its utilities seem like something on the supportive defense side, but it is clearly lacking reason to be a versatile spec. A boon damage buffer would be nice, it just needs some trait or skill that gives alacrity or quickness to a group of people (alacrity would fit better with all the CDs running around the mechanics and the no weapons swap thing) . 

Immortal Dragon would fit perfectly here maybe  group Alacrity based on how many charges are used on top of the heal.

I completely agree with this and this is my biggest critic to this class: there is no place for it. Berserker already is our DPS oriented spec and you can't be more on point on the name and theme for a warrior dps than that. It was already covered and it only needed a very small buff to be perfect. And it also works as both power and condition.

The new espec for warrior should've been something on the support line (people like it or not, it was the necessary spot to fill) so they had room to improve berserker as dps and bring nice sinergy with banners or shouts to this new warrior espec. Something on the commander line with melee staff as a portable banner would've been great honestly. And I wouldn't care being a bannerslave if my class was design to be fun with it. Lol, new skill type minions, and let us summon soldiers from the pact.

Now we have 2 espec competing with each other which i find quite stupid to be honest. It kind of diminish the class (and by extension the game) value.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Mesket.5728

[UNOwen.7132]

2 hours ago, Rym.1469 said:

Pure PvP feedback really;

1. The number one issue with this spec was DTrigger putting weapon swap on cd, but it is confirmed a bug so the spec should instantly feel much better. DT triggering Intelligence and other swap sigils is an interesting part though.  

2. As pointed out previously, not having access to DT outside of gunsaber or core weapon burst when outside of gunsaber adds a lot to the clunky feeling. No core burst also devalues a lot of weapons massively because they are now zdps in PvP, but I reckon that's intended. 

3. Gunsaber skills are ok. #2 could use a bit more damage. 

4. Dragon Trigger has some issues, to say the least. First off, the initial cast ("going into trigger") has a cast time and can be interrupted and makes executing quick trigger when pressured hardly a possibility. Second, in PvP charging trigger is not useful when used for damage - it simply doesn't scale hard with time spent like in PvE. You will do far more damage charging up for 1s and autoattacking for 4 than charging up for 5s. If you charge it, you do it while capping a point or for longer stun. To add to it, while charging DT warrior is extra prone to CC which short aegis hardly solves. I'd much rather see DT #4 give short stability and giving warrior ability to dodge when charging up. 

5. The interaction of burst traits that scale with stages is totally mismatched in PvP. I'd go as far as to say that each "pip" should count as adrenaline stage or every second one. Currently Berserker's might, cleansing ire and adrenal health are worthless on bladesworn.

6. All Dragon bursts can be avoided by jumping or slight elevation. Dark Souls hit detection here.

6a. Dragon Slash is okay as a burst. This is also the skill that should benefit the most by charging up as it has the highest counterplay and is the hardest to land. 

6b. Dragon Boost (dash) is the most reliable burst out there. It also shares plenty of characteristics with a skatepark ramp, being very happy to launch warrior even 30 feet in the air. Would have a great synergy with the old fall damage trait, but I reckon it isn't supposed to behave like this unless part of the story is hosting Redbull XGames in Cantha. Jokes aside, it's also counterable by the enemy standing behind or near some pillar, because the dash is notorious for getting warrior stuck inside terrain. Other than that solid, could use damage boost but not as high as Slash.

6c. Dragon Wave (or something?). Totally useless as of right now, misses targets at point blank, can be sidestepped. Broken, unable to be tested. Could be okay vs Scourges. 

7. Pistol is a fun idea but the #5 pushback is unnecessary and it all around needs more damage to be worth considering. In the current situation with weapon swap fixed, shield or warhorn is the choice for OH, pistol being third. #4 immobilizing could be a thing. 

8. As far as utilities go, it's pretty much as expected. Elite has heavy cd in pvp but with ammo utilities and Lush Forest it's better than other options. Heal is very good with the above. Other utilities are pve utilities that have no place in PvP. Flow Stabilizer won't be worth till charging big dragon triggers becomes worthwhile or it gets a stunbreak attached. Dragon Mine could be a consideration with 20s cooldown. 

9. Traits are virtually hard carried by Lush Forest. If you are not running Lush Forest you are griefing and it is the trait that somewhat makes Bladesworn work ok in PvP. The first tier is good, in the second tier the burn one is totally out of place and the barrier one is an option only if you run 0 ammo utilities pretty much.  As for Grandmasters,  the middle one is the only option and currently is the only reason to use burst skills. Top one would have to heal for 60%+ damage done to be worth a look. Bottom one is made irrelevant by Lush Forest, because it also recharges bursts. 

10. On the last note; The current strongest Bladesworn build that runs ammo heal, triple shout and heavily abuses Lush Forest, while fun, will stop being that cute once it actually starts dealing damage. It's very vulerable to CC and chill, but it's gameplay is essentially spamming everything ammo on cooldown and camping gunsaber. And it can quickly spiral into a PvP nightmare. Shouts are more of a problem here rather than traits and new stuff, because they are by far the best ammo skills. This build, as of right now, tends to do more healing than damage running Berserker Amulet and Strength line which in itself is a commentary on it's lack of damage, but as I said, once it stops being a cute Zdps we could have a teamfighter dps that is also an excellent support on berserker amulet.

 

 

 

I disagree with the idea that Daring Dragon is not good in PvP. It's actually the best one, being able to use bursts back to back to back let's you stack up Berserker's might easily, would do good damage if entering the stance was faster and smoother, and provides quite a bit of utility. 2 is honestly not as good, the stun is nice, but if you want a stun burst, core warrior has better options.

[Vancho.8750]

17 minutes ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

I disagree with the idea that Daring Dragon is not good in PvP. It's actually the best one, being able to use bursts back to back to back let's you stack up Berserker's might easily, would do good damage if entering the stance was faster and smoother, and provides quite a bit of utility. 2 is honestly not as good, the stun is nice, but if you want a stun burst, core warrior has better options.

The bugs on the weapon swap, on the hitboxes and the janky recasts(it goes into the gunblade then and you can tap on the gunblade skills and interrupt the trigger), the ICD on the burst skills, the fact that it locks you in the mode, it is still too slow to charge even with 5 charges. It is way too janky to work as the intended Blade dance thing, and no one will let you recast more than 2 times anyway so the UNBLOCABLE NO BLIND STUN burst is pretty big since it is reliable for PVP. 

[Zaicrown.3579]

This is coming from a casual player who mainly does PVE and open world.

For starters, the Bladesworn is by far my favorite elite spec thematically, but I feel the name Bladesworn doesn’t fit the E-spec identity and the exotic class names that GW2 is known for. The names Blazer or Slayer would be more fitting, but this is just a small gripe I have lol. Now, I understand this is beta and that damage outputs won’t be accurate, so I won’t focus on the numbers during my feedback.

Pistol:

1. -          I think its solid, does the job and I wouldn’t change anything about it really. It’s a damage weapon on a warrior, it makes sense it’s purely offensive.

Gunsaber:

1. -        I think the Gunsaber abilities are solid and cover most bases. The animations are neat and the gun bullet effects are a nice touch.

2. -        Having Ammo abilities is fun and an interesting playstyle for warrior. That being said, I do believe that even though they have Ammo, the actual cooldowns on them once they have all been used is quite long (some are 25-35 seconds). Although Tactical Reload does make this bearable.

3. -         Break Step should break Immobility/crippling, it only makes sense that it does (its in the name).

Dragon Trigger:

The biggest issue is having to build Flow then channel it into the Charges/Bullets for 5 seconds while remaining still to get access to Dragon Trigger just to use ONE offensive ability and then have Dragon Trigger go on cooldown. The issue is obvious in just how many hoops Bladesworn has to go through just to use the mechanics. It technically has to balance 3 “resources” just to have it pay off (Flow, channeling time, Charges).

If the theme of Bladesworn is all about “charging” your Gunsaber, then literally having a Flow/Adrenaline bar and filling it up should fill that criterion for “charging your gunsaber” alone, but just with less hoops to go through.

I understand that “standing still” and Dragon Slash’s damage being determined by how many charges you have is part of the theme you guys are going for, but it just feels clunky on how much ramp time there is.

Dragon Trigger Feedback:

1. -         The cast time for Dragon Trigger needs to be gone or shortened drastically if entering it needs to be telegraphed (maybe 2-3 seconds).

2. -          The cooldown for Dragon Trigger after being interrupted or accidentally moving is too long.

3. -         Being forced into one place isn’t necessarily bad especially with the defensives and mobility abilities 4 and 5 provides. However a movement speed reduction would suffice just as well because at least moving wouldn’t kick us out of DT.

If you’re interested, my suggestion for an alternative way Dragon Trigger could work.

Alternative Dragon Trigger:

1. -          Get rid of Flow/Adrenaline entirely for the E-spec but keep the Charges/Bullets (let’s say 10 Charges like how it is currently)

2. -          Bladesworn has an abundance of Ammunition abilities. Dragon Trigger would be built around this feature.

3. -          By spending an Ammo ability, the player would gain one Charge/Bullet per Ammo spent. (This works very similar to core Mesmer generating clone/combo mechanics.)

4. -          E.g. Using one Artillery Slash would grant one Charge.

5. -          This way, players know just how many Charges they have on hand, an idea of how much damage their Dragon Slashes would do, giving them more options if they want to enter Dragon Trigger now or wait till Charges 10/10 to max out damage.

6. -          Utility skills would focus on increasing the chances of generating Charges.

7. -          When the player is satisfied with the number of Charges accumulated, they can then enter Dragon Trigger at lower cast time.

8. -          This alternative places more emphasis on the large amount of Ammunition that Bladesworn already possesses and actually utilizes them in a meaningful way unique to this spec, which honestly suits the theme of the spec.

Anyways, that’s my feedback.

Just want to say keep up the good work folks and I hope you take some of these suggestions onboard.

[Swiftwynd.1685]

2 hours ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

Honestly just making the dodge be Flickerstep and letting Warriors use it twice would be more than enough to meet this ask, and I really hope that's what they do.

 

Honestly not a bad idea. The idea of how it would function (since the current is ground target) could be wonky, but it definitely would be good.

I played a bit more today vs constant hydra vets in Oasis, and I really got the hang of it after a while and it DOES feel exceptionally satisfying to land your stuff and avoid the hydras.

That said, I was using Marauder with health shouts and the stability stance. That made it significantly easier than going without the Stab stance. Building flow with shout heals and ult is *very* easy to do, didnt even need Flow Control... and it was absolutely tanky as hell. 

 

Several times I survived two hydras + a dustmite, something almost no other build I've tried can reliably do. 

[Swiftwynd.1685]

1 hour ago, Mesket.5728 said:

I completely agree with this and this is my biggest critic to this class: there is no place for it. Berserker already is our DPS oriented spec and you can't be more on point on the name and theme for a warrior dps than that. It was already covered and it only needed a very small buff to be perfect. And it also works as both power and condition.

The new espec for warrior should've been something on the support line (people like it or not, it was the necessary spot to fill) so they had room to improve berserker as dps and bring nice sinergy with banners or shouts to this new warrior espec. Something on the commander line with melee staff as a portable banner would've been great honestly. And I wouldn't care being a bannerslave if my class was design to be fun with it. Lol, new skill type minions, and let us summon soldiers from the pact.

Now we have 2 espec competing with each other which i find quite stupid to be honest. It kind of diminish the class (and by extension the game) value.

 

I disagree entirely.

There *is* room for multiple "damage focused" elite specializations on a single class provided that:

1. They play distinctly from each other.

2. They have pros and cons, and situations where one is superior to the other.

 

 

If we compare berserker and bladesworn, we have:

Berserker:

Viable Condition Spec, decent Power Spec.

Playstyle is fast and frenetic, quickly dishing out bursts

Relies on damage windows of opportunity during Berserk.

Has good CC contribution for break bars.

Suffers little to bring Banners.

Works fairly well in mobile encounters for raids/strikes and fairs well in open world.

Very good AOE.

 

vs.

 

Bladesworn:

 

Viable only as a Power spec, no Condi option that is playable.

Playstyle is slow and deliberate, building up to huge damage spikes, but is all or nothing.

Relies on steady playstyle of Flow and generating damage in bursts, but has no "downtime" of the flow.

Has poor CC contribution for break bars.

Significantly suffers in Flow generation if taking Banners.

Works very poorly in mobile encounters for raids/strikes, but excels in stationary / telegraphed fights.

Very good AOE as well provided the foes are clumped and stationary.

 

They are distinct enough to work well together, and offer very different playstyles.

 

Its like comparing Dual Blades vs Longsword in Monster Hunter World. One is more "spamy" ala Berserker and the other is very methodical and timing based, ala bladesworn.

 

 

I'm really enjoying bladesworn as it is, and with some more tweaks, I feel like it will have a good place. I don't think it can replace Berserker as the Banner Boi, so it shouldn't make them obsolete in Raids.

[cgMatt.5162]

Any skill that requires you to be stationary is not a great design imo. The F2 skills feel on par with burst skills which Berserker and Core Warrior do better.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Here is a suggestion to make Dragon Trigger work better.

 

Make it so that you can swap into either Gunsaber or Dragon Trigger from your main set, and from Dragon Trigger to either the main set or Gunsaber.

Dragon Trigger no longer builds charges and Dragon Slash instead expends Flow. The damage dealt is dependent on the amount of flow spent at 1.5 scaling with 15 flow spent, to 4.0 scaling at 100 flow spent. In PvE set the max scaling at what it currently is. Make it a linear rate of increase rather than exponential. You must have 15 flow in order to use Dragon Slash (10 felt too small, but 20 felt too high). Triggerguard should be changed to a 3/4s evade. Flickerstep needs it's distance increased to at least 600 if not more.

Make Dragon Trigger no longer cancel if you dodge, or move, but movement is limited to 50% movement speed. While in Dragon Trigger you are immune to all movement speed decreases or increases including immobilize.

 

I think that if you made those changes, and fix the hitbox issues, that you will preserve the 'feel' that you are going for, while not overly penalizing the Bladesworn, and would give them the tools they need to effectively get their Dragon Slash off.

If you do get rid of the charges and instead consume Flow for the damage on Dragon Slash, you may need to revisit the PvE numbers, as it would be easier to spam, but the PvP/WvW scaling should go from 1.5 to 4.0 depending on the flow spent.

You need to decide if Dragon Trigger and Gunsaber are Kits proper or just alternate 'weapon' sets. If they are meant to be more like kits proper then give them a lower CD to equip and make that CD not affected by Fast Hands. The individual CDs in the Dragon Trigger Kit, and the skills inside it should all be affected by Versatile Power and Burst Mastery as appropriate: i.e. Flow refund, CD reduction, and the 7% damage increase.

 

EDIT: To further clarify, Flow would have to still decrease as you remain in Dragon Trigger. This would be the INVERSE of the current usage, and would force people to pressure/kit the Bladesworn thus guaranteeing that the burst is diminished in value the long they stay in Dragon Trigger either through being forced to dodge, or reposition with Flickerstep. The drain rate would also have to increase to 20 flow per 1/2s.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[Mesket.5728]

3 hours ago, Swiftwynd.1685 said:

 

I'm really enjoying bladesworn as it is, and with some more tweaks, I feel like it will have a good place. I don't think it can replace Berserker as the Banner Boi, so it shouldn't make them obsolete in Raids.

You seem to fail to understand the harm here... IF bladesworn is a pure dps class and becomes an S tier dps, you can kiss your banners goodbye because nobody will run a crippled zerk build just to bring banners. If we had a class that properly supported banners the story would be another one. So warriors will still bannerslaves, unhappy ones, playing crippled builds that does not support what they are bringing properly.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Mesket.5728

[UNOwen.7132]

4 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

The bugs on the weapon swap, on the hitboxes and the janky recasts(it goes into the gunblade then and you can tap on the gunblade skills and interrupt the trigger), the ICD on the burst skills, the fact that it locks you in the mode, it is still too slow to charge even with 5 charges. It is way too janky to work as the intended Blade dance thing, and no one will let you recast more than 2 times anyway so the UNBLOCABLE NO BLIND STUN burst is pretty big since it is reliable for PVP. 

Youre not supposed to charge it to full. Just let it rip early. Yes, its a bit clunky, but at the same time even with the clunkiness its better, letting you stack up berserkers might and dash back to back to back. And once the jankyness is fixed, tis easily the best one. The unblockable no blind stun still just ... loses to evades.

[Mesket.5728]

12 minutes ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

Youre not supposed to charge it to full. Just let it rip early. Yes, its a bit clunky, but at the same time even with the clunkiness its better, letting you stack up berserkers might and dash back to back to back. And once the jankyness is fixed, tis easily the best one. The unblockable no blind stun still just ... loses to evades.

No wait time eviscerate (or arc slice) hits for several Ks depending on the build. No wait time dragon trigger hits for 2k. So its a no go unless you actually wait for it. Not saying 5 seconds, but how long do you have to wait to be at least better than eviscerate? (and that is if they fix every thing about flow that im not even getting into that). You will have an argument, the day instant DT hits more than Eviscerate or Arc Slice

Edited September 24, 2021 by Mesket.5728

[Jinsei.5702]

I did play a lot of Bladesworn through the beta . I love the idea and concepts of things, its a lot of fun and you look cool! But I will give my feedback on the idea I came up with on how to kinda of balance it or make it a bit more ‘flow’ than hoping to stand around for 5 seconds without getting blinded, knocked down or killed

• So an idea I had was that of a Charge Blade’s mechanic from Monster Hunter, Now hear me out. While you have your blade out and do damage you build your flow like normal but being able to load charges into the ‘chamber’ if you will, say you can load (1 to 3max) after so many explosions or something. Kind of a quick sheath mechanic, stowing the chargers. I mean you continue that into the point where you can dragon stance when you want and give a huge burst.

Basically you still have the Iai stance  but with a bit more movement and stacking charges for you attack, maybe even used for other other things. Bladesworn and its artwork, the gauntlets  have really nothing to do with the class ( so far). It kinda gave me the impression that we are loading shells into the blade as we fight or for actions.

 

I wish a lot of these new specs had some more crowd control options with the weapons themselves.

 

For what I did play I had loads of fun! I can’t wait to see what it evolves into!

[Vancho.8750]

6 minutes ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

Youre not supposed to charge it to full. Just let it rip early. Yes, its a bit clunky, but at the same time even with the clunkiness its better, letting you stack up berserkers might and dash back to back to back. And once the jankyness is fixed, tis easily the best one. The unblockable no blind stun still just ... loses to evades.

As I told you at best you could pull out 2 bursts before someone uses any cc, it would have been better if it didn't recast by itself and you had control over it like decapitate, but as is now a simple daze like headshot stops the combo. I like the idea of it but warrior just works better with the unblockable and the blindness remove.    
Now if like @Mesket.5728 mentions Daring dragon did quick casts 3/4 1 seconds with normal burst skill damage, which means it has to preload all the charges on trigger (DMC Nero style) without the jankiness it would be good as a Blade dance combo, but that are too many IFs. To tell you mister thief main even if they fix all the jank currently it will be still kinda clunky cause it is still warrior, you probably like it cause it looks cool , but all the warrior specs looked cool till they didn't since they had allot of jank covered up by stat stick damage. Usually the simplest skills are the best since they are unharmed in the balancing process.

[VentiGlondi.9830]

As you might have noticed, Bladesworn is absolutely bonkers in group pve content.

And that's not purely because of Dragon Slash dealing too much damage - it's the combined result of Dragon Slash being powerful, relatively short cooldown of Dragon Trigger, and how easy it is to build flow with a proper setup.

I would like to urge you to try to handle PvE Bladesworn without nerfing Dragon Slash damage, and instead try to reduce the frequency with which Dragon Slash can be used.

The big payoff doesn't feel that grand anymore when you can use it every 4 seconds.

Encourage using your entire kit, not just camping in the gun sword.

[BXXL.8047]

Great elite spec, Anet! Tbh the first of the new EoD elite specs I actually kinda enjoyed (- the others I find rather underwhelming, except rev maybe?, but that's live, you can't please everyone. So I still appriciate your work and think you're doing a great job with this expansion!)

The bladesworn is especially powerful in 1v1 battles. It's more difficult surviving when facing multiple enemies, especially while getting stunned every two seconds (2 or 3 stab from the utility skill won't help that much at this point). Maybe this wouldn't be such a problem if you'd not get kicked out of the loading stance (f2) when stunned, but could just start to prepare the dragon slash again instantly. Maybe it's just a question of ability and training, but that's something I really struggled with.

But everything else I really really love, good work! 😄

 

(If you also take aesthetic feedback: The look of the gunblade is perfect, looks awesome! But: As the gunblade is supposed to feel like a real weapon you equip - at least if I get it right - I'd like to be able to (un)sheathe it like a real weapon, too. I don't like being "forced" to run around with an unsheathed weapon out of combat - same with e.g. engineer's flame thrower - without the option to stow it, but still having it by my side. Currently the only way to "sheathe" it is to press F1 and put it away completely. This however takes away the beautiful sheath you created which I'd really like to show off out of combat. A minor matter, but maybe worth a note.)

Stay safe and healthy! ❤️