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Bladesworn Feedback Thread


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So far I see most complaints about this spec in pvp, I Guess people were hoping for a pvp based warrior spec finally, as right now who would actually want to kitten themselves by playing a warrior in pvp. I think the weapon is mostly fine, and dragon trigger (you should be able to dodge/move but I digress) and pistol is fine and perfect. Just for wvw and pvp...

 

Really though some subtle changes are needed, you should keep flow outside of combat, it should not drain. This will help in all game modes, Most of the time unless you are fighting high HP targets everything is long dead before you get anywhere near close to max flow + charging it + unleashing something. Which means you constantly run around gaining and losing flow and never using it. 

 

Gunblade cooldowns need to be shorter, I know they are this long due to the elite, but that basically means you have to take the elite. Being balanced around the elite means all other elites are pointless. I do love the projectile block, handy in wvw especially with three charges. And I like the heal. But the other ulitilies feel like they have been a bit too over balanced. The cripple/immob wall requires you to either place both down literally next to each other or most of the time never immob anyone. A Ranger using immob has so much more access to it that it makes this skill pointless to use anywhere. 

 

Flow Stabilizer giving one stack of stab. One stack? why is it not more? And such a short duration. We already don't have utilities that other classes have that both stun break and apply multiple stacks of stab yet our classes access to it requires us using movement skills+strength trait line to gain it. Its a great utility for flow, sure, but I wish it was our stun break, and gave some more stacks of stab. Dragonspike mine is terrible, the cd is insane. Why anyone would pick that over Shake it off astounds me. 35 seconds and the elite doesn't effect it. 

 

For open world I don't really have much complaints, the sustain looks fine with max sustain + strength and defence trait lines, lot of access to heals with gives more flow which gives more heals. And a potential full heal. The only change based on open world really would just be that flow stays charged. 

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Delete banners. Until you do that - it doesn't matter how many DPS specs you add to warrior, everyone will keep treating it as support and keep calling it by a very unsavory name, breeding furthe

I think its really fun to play but find its lacking a lot of damage in pvp for the set up required, max dragon trigger did about 3 to 6 thousand damage which for a skill that requires so much set up s

Skins please, this lv 30 Queensdale piece of junk is unsightly

6 minutes ago, Sykper.6583 said:

Quick tallies, from an SPvP perspective:

 

- This spec has undeniable potential, which is precisely why the SPvP side of numbers is so bad for it. Dragon Trigger hits like a wet noodle. I don't want it to hit for 100% on a heavy armor target, but it shouldn't be chunking at full capacity for a few thousand on a non-crit.

- Also, it can be interrupted. I would give stability to the 4 skill on top of Aegis. There are several sources of unblockable CCs, Dragon Trigger is unviable at this moment.

That said, I think there's great potential for a shout support spec with that elite skill, but playing with it feels like I'm missing a lot, it feels unfinished.

 

Simple solution to it would be to make the stab from flow stabilizer last longer + give at least 4 stacks for its duration. That way we'd have stab while charging and can still use aegis to block. 

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I haven't read through the rest of this thread so sorry if I'm repeating what others say. I only played this spec in PvP, and while I don't want to straight up say the elite spec is bad, it feels bad to play. 

Bladesworn seems to be designed to have 3 weapon sets: main hand, Gunblade, and Dragon Trigger, the latter being hidden behind wielding Gunblade first. I feel the biggest issues with forcing 2 of the 3 weapon sets on us to be the following: 

  1. Gunblade and Dragon Trigger have no meaningful defensive skills or hard CC. The fact that 2 of your 3 weapon options offer nothing that actively prevents you from dying means that for the majority of your time alive you will be ill-equipped to handle pressure. 
  2. The weapon swap to your main hand shares its cooldown with Dragon Trigger, and so even if you wanted to deal some "damage" in Dragon Trigger (I'm sure there are enough memes about its PvP damage) doing so would lose access to your main weapon set, and thus any defensive skills or CC.
  3. Entering Dragon Trigger has no merit as it does not do enough damage for the risk, and as it does not generate any stability, you will just get CCed and your weapon swap will go on full cooldown. 
  4. If you forego the Dragon Trigger all-together so that you have reliable access to your defensive skills in your main weapon set, you are left with Flow that literally serves no purpose.

Here are some suggestions that might make the gameplay feel better: 

  1. Give some defensive skills or hard CC to Gunblade. Right now every attack is an explosion and nobody cares about Gunblade 4's projectile reflect. If you inflicted a low duration weakness or a blind on some of those explosions (see Engineer's flashbang) or gave evade frames to Gunblade 5 it would give players some defensive options instead of feeling like you're forced to trade damage. This would also help with the need to fill your utility slots with purely CC skills in order to survive. 
  2. Remove the Dragon Trigger weapon kit and instead, create F2, F3, and F4 to represent Dragon Triggers 1, 2, and 3. Nobody is going to use Dragon Trigger 4 and 5, and the F2-F4 keys could function as a one-shot skill or press-to-activate and press-to-unleash.
  3. Allow Dragon Trigger to be accessible even when wielding the main weapon set. 
  4. Provide Dragon Trigger with a short duration stack of Stability so that these skills can actually land.

I think these changes would go a long way towards making Bladesworn feel more fun. It's not fun to feel like you have no options because 66% of the weapon skills you have equipped are more-or-less worthless and 33% of your weapon skills are inaccessible because of weapon swap cooldowns. This would drastically free up your utility skills so that you don't just take CC and condition cleanse. I never even got to play with the ammo-based utility skills of Bladesworn because I didn't survive long enough for them to matter. 

Additionally, if you are in Gunblade and use Rampage, your Rampage form has the Gunblade skills. I didn't get to play with this to see if the Gunblade skills were more effective, but you can drop the weapon bundle to return to the normal Rampage skills. It would be kind of cool if Rampage had some synergy this way, but otherwise it's worth reporting as an unintended effect.

Edited by Sovereign.1953
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Unfortunately the PvP situation is just clunk on top of clunk. The numbers are bad too. Huge investment to land a dragon slash, and it does less dps than just autoattacking. Ammo elite synergy with support shouts seems promising until you realize you're vulnerable without Full Counter, and you have to give up your banner elite skill to get the synergy.

 

  • The main issues leading to clunkiness:
  1. No ability to stow while using Gunsaber, not even heals/utilities. (this feels really bad, like I'm using an environmental weapon or something)
  2. Long cast times
  3. Long aftercasts (particularly on Blooming Fire)
  4. Gunsaber on F1 is unintuitive
  5. Can't enter dragon trigger outside Gunsaber
  6. Tracking on Dragon Slash 3 is awful - it misses all the time, and the 2 has trouble with verticality as well.
  7. Dragon Saber interaction with Rampage is bugged

I could go on, but I'm pretty depressed and disappointed at this point. I thought the spec would be interesting, but it really doesn't hold up to playtesting. It feels like walking through glue.

 

Edit: I forgot Dragon Slash locks you out of your other weapon set for 5 seconds. WHY

Edited by Drakhar.1389
forgot something
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1 minute ago, Vancho.8750 said:

I find it weird that 1 second cast does 4k , 5 seconds of cast does 6k lol.

yes, this whole shenanigans make daring dragon the best grandmaster trait as well, you're literally just pidgeonholed into this + a standard unblockable arms build... which isn't even meta right now.

 

Very disappointing now that I got my hands on this spec.

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There are a lot of things I definitely enjoyed with this spec in PvE so far, but there are some issues I have with it:

 

  1. The range of both pistol skills (especially skill 5) is very low. Warrior as it stands has no mid range weaponry, only melee or long range like longbows and rifles. Skill 5 in particular could definitely benefit from having a longer range, probably up to 900. And the latter could probably benefit from having some sort of condition such as burn or vulnerability so that it can be given more utility.
  2. Give the pistol the option for main hand use as well. If it worked for Spellbreaker's daggers then I don't see why pistols can't have it as well, it would definitely help give players a reason to use pistol over other established weapons and not make it obsolete, especially in the current state the pistol is in.
  3. Gunsaber skill 5 has a tendancy to go right past the selected target instead of closing the gap, and in cases where there is no wall/ledge, can often lead to falling off the edge. And maybe not have it deal damage from the start point, but rather deal damage once the player reaches the end/ reaches the target, as it is currently not very useful if you just zip past the target by accident and not deal any damage in the process because you weren't close enough.
  4. Maybe find a way to address the issues surrounding swapping to the gunsaber. Since there is no time limit on how long it can be used for unlike other elite specs like Reaper, maybe add some extra bonuses to give the gunsaber more presence instead of it currently being what is essentially an alternative weapon swap, but doesn't have access to the sigils from the other weapons.
  5. Increase the natural flow rate a bit more when wielding gunsaber in combat. Would make using it a lot more efficient and fun to play around with.
  6. Increase the range of the short range teleport from Dragon Trigger. It's not particularly fun having to spam it over and over just to close the distance. It could probably benefit from bumping up the distance to 900.
Edited by Kylorori.9061
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8 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

Simple solution to it would be to make the stab from flow stabilizer last longer + give at least 4 stacks for its duration. That way we'd have stab while charging and can still use aegis to block. 

 

Maybe. Going into dragon trigger with the root should be punishment enough, where you can be damaged as you leave yourself vulnerable.

That all said, Flow does need to stop degenerating out of combat with the changes. Flow is a much larger bar to fill being 100 ticks compared to other specs, and it generates slowly.

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I found the dragon trigger very difficult to use, flow seemed like it built too slowly and dissipated too quickly, and I wasn't able to build up the number of charges I was expecting.  I was trying to fight some wurms, and I know the ability to interrupt is intentional, it just seems too easy, and I think Bulletproof Barrier has a height problem, because they were pummeling me right through it, possibly because they were going over?

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From mostly open world perspective, Gunsaber feels really weak and you're way too vulnerable with Dragon Trigger, in PvE the thing needs some immunity or chance to resist knockdown/interrupts. Likewise, flow takes forever to build unless you use frenzy and flow stabilizer. However, even once you get to dragon trigger it takes so long to build up that you take too much damage (against more than one mob). So far it's more effective to just camp in Axe+Pistol since the auto attack does more damage than most of the saber's skills lol

 

Personally, I think Daring Dragon should be changed to instead of re-entering DT again to simply having it charge 2 times the speed. You get those 5 charges pretty quickly at the cost of being able to do bigger damage. Either that or just increase the speed of DT to begin with. Losing your charges AND flow after getting knocked out DT is incredibly bad, there's no other spec that gets punished so heavily for it. You spend all this time trying to go for this big move and boom, all your time and CDs wasted while others only lose a small percentage of DPS by comparison

 

Overall it feels like it could be a fun spec but it's incredibly unbalanced making it awkward to use. It's supposed to feel rewarding to get the big move off but it's instead kinda just tedious. I'd personally take less damage on DT to make it a bit faster and have more damage on the weapon's skills. There's supposed to be this idea of "flow" between the saber, pistol and dragon trigger but so far it's more like use the Axe+Pistol and then hope you don't die using DT.

The delay you get to swap weapons after Dragon Trigger is super janky, and goes against the whole fast weapon swapping idea of the whole build imo.

 

Edited by Kalocin.5982
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Finally I can give feedback on an area I'm very familiar with! Warrior is my main and have both a Berserker and Spellbreaker and have experimented with countless other builds and weapon combos. It makes me sad to see everyone's opinion on the current state of warrior before Bladesworn so I did a lot of tests to try to give the best feedback I can.

 

In summery, a lot of Bladesworn feels "just ok enough to not be a problem" but could use some tweaks to make it easier to hit that sweet spot.

 

Notes on functionality:

You can't go into dragontrigger if you are moving and trying to move while in dragontrigger breaks you out of it. This feels really awkward and going into and staying in dragontrigger should be the priority action. Reactivating dragontrigger or firing it off should be the only way to get out of this state. Currently it's too easy to mess up trying to use it.

 

Not sure if intended, but healing, utility skills (except shouts), and the elite all break you out of dragontrigger. Movement skills are a given but I don't know if activating a signet or placing a banner or using the elite to refresh the dragontrigger ammo skills should interrupt that. It makes you less of a sitting duck when charging in pvp and can help you maintain raid responsibilities or give the slash more power in pve. Also seems odd to have the 4 and 5 be ammo skills in this state if the elite can't help them. Something to consider.

 

There might be a possible bug with the trait River's Flow and Swift as the Wind. I had taken shouts and the trait that lets them heal but when firing them off, Positive flow didn't go above two stacks. Same with movement skills Not sure if there's an internal cooldown on those or not, it should state so if that is the case.

 

Armament skills are fairly underwelming aside from the elite. Though this might be fine as they occupy a more utility (for lack of a better term) role than the other skills warrior has access to which are more aggressive, supportive, or stat-changing. Still, if feels off to have warrior of all classes not get a new attack skill out of the bunch. They already have "shake it off" as an ammo stunbreak so maybe the stunbreak could be reworked into an attack skill. On that note, the kit feels like it could use at least one more way of generating Positive flow aside from traits and one skill; see below for ideas on this.

 

The heal skill is an interesting concept but I think it should be reversed functionally to get better value out of it. Currently it fails its main job of a "I'm about about to die, I need lots of health right now" tool due to the delay one needs to heal twice. I suggest changing it so using it the first time doesn't heal you at all but gives you the boons instead and puts you into stim state. Then if used again while in stim state, it removes the boons and heals you for double the amount it does now. This would let the player use it aggressively as a fourth utility skill (similar to "To the Limit!" for instant adrenaline) without sacrificing its primary role as a panic button. On that note: maybe the other armament skills (minus the elite) could be reworked the same way: activate once to gain benefit A and put the player in a state where if they activate the skill again, benefit A is removed and an equally powerful but different benefit B is applied. It would fit the name "armament" better thematically. Perhaps one skill could actually reduce flow or remove a stack of positive flow for a very powerful effect and then activating it again remove that effect and add to positive flow. Something to consider.

 

Not sure if everyone forgot but underwater combat exists. You can use the gunsaber and dragontrigger underwater but they're a bit awkward in that environment especially the movement skills. Maybe make an underwater gunsaber type weapon or change the skills to function a bit differently.

 

Notes on the gunsaber:

I like the gunsaber overall. It covers enough scenarios to make up for being the second weaponset. However, the cooldowns are a bit too high. This wouldn't be an issue in pvp or raids as you would be expected to weaponswap regularly but in the context of an open world casual player who wanted to use the gunsaber as their exclusive weapon, it could be a bit annoying in longer fights. This is one of those points where the spec feels just ok enough. I took kick, shouts, the trait to reduce their cooldown, Lush Forest, and Tactical Reload. Basically as much ammo skills and cooldown reduction as I could fit into a decent build to see how spammy I could be and was more or less satisfied with how much I could fire off and for how long before everything was spent and on cooldown. However this is a very specific build and the spec in general could benefit from maybe 3-5 seconds taken off the gunsaber weapon skills in pve. I don't play pvp but from what I've seen others say, dragontrigger has way too low damage to be worth using.

 

Notes on other weapons:

Offhand pistol is a decent weapon but it feels lacking in certain aspects. The 4 is a decent approach. The 5 does good damage but it's way too short ranged for a projectile weapon. You have to be right next to an enemy to even hit them with any of the volley. The pushback covers more ground then the range of the attack. The teaser trailer said they use offhand pistol to maintain their flow when not using the gunsaber but the weapon doesn't bring any benefit to that other than keeping you in combat. While I'm fine with gunsaber taking up the second weapon slot, I feel it really breaks the theme of the warrior as a weapon master to not give them dual pistols. Offhand pistol alone doesn't feel worth ever swapping off gunsaber (especially with its long cooldowns where you'd want the other weapon set to be used for awhile while it recharges) if all you're pretty much going to do with it is swap-5-4-5-swap. At the very least, giving them some positive flow generation could help.

 

When using the other weapon set, dragontrigger remains locked as a useless skill. The other weapon sets are really hurt by not having their burst skills anymore. I feel like they should still have access to their burst skills with maybe some number tuning to use flow instead. Another option is to make flow a bit like energy on revenant where it always has natural generation up to 50% and adds or subtracts flowrate on other factors. This would let people start a fight with dragontrigger if they wanted to instead of fighting to build it up and then charging it to bring it down and let other weapons use their burst skills by reducing the flowrate for a bit if taking amounts of flow away as a cost like adrenaline is too hard to balance. This would work well with my previous suggestion about reworking armament skills. Some could take flow away and give it back. At the very least, if nothing else changes, dragontrigger shouldn't be locked so the player doesn't have to swap to gunsaber just to immediately go into dragontrigger.

 

Notes on traits:

Essentially the first tier traits could use some buffing, the middle tier traits are just ok enough, and the grandmaster traits are fine. As I mentioned before, the kit feels like it could use a little more ways to generate Positive flow. I don't know if that's because River's Flow/Swift as the Wind have bugs or actually needs more weapon/utility skills to do that. The weapon swap one is probably fine.

 

Lush Forest seems fine as it is. Buffing it to 2 seconds taken off from 1 second might be too strong on utility and other weapon skills and if gunsaber gets its cooldowns reduced then this trait doesn't need to be changed. I didn't experiment with Flame Shell Burst very much but it feels like it applies enough burning to work in a condition build. Only thing is slightly increase the range of the flame burst as it needs to be right on top of enemies to hit them with it. Unshakable Mountain is in a weird spot. It feels like it applies just enough barrier to be useful but Lush Forest seems like the better option in both selfish and supportive power builds and Flame Shell Burst would have to be taken in a condition builds.

 

On a minor note:

I think visually the gunblade's model should be updated a bit as it looks kinda weird. The handle seems too long and the handguard is awkwardly big; making it the same diameter as the gun barrel seems like an appropriate size. The glow on the blade could be toned down just a bit. Update the skill icons to have more grey, silver, black, and duller warm colors. At present it's quite a lot of bright orange and yellow taking up the whole skill bar which kinda hurts to stare at after a while.

Edited by BlueTurtle.9263
Tested more things, clarified some points
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10 minutes ago, Sykper.6583 said:

 

Maybe. Going into dragon trigger with the root should be punishment enough, where you can be damaged as you leave yourself vulnerable.

That all said, Flow does need to stop degenerating out of combat with the changes. Flow is a much larger bar to fill being 100 ticks compared to other specs, and it generates slowly.

 

Yeah for sure, rooted for 5 seconds where you can be killed and of course, cc'd. You don't move, dodge, and all you get 2 aegis's. They really shoulda just made it that while charging, you are immune to cc then it'd at least semi usable. 

 

As it stands, on my Ranger, I just use Dolyak stance, break stuns, get six stacks of stab, and basically become immune to damage all while being able to move and do everything I would normally do. We have to root for five seconds, sit there only getting base protection boon and can be cc'd all to gain what? Less damage then our auto attack? 

 

Flow indeed needs some work, as well as the entire stance when it comes to pvp. slow to fill and disappearing instantly almost means you can just pretend dragon trigger doesn't exist. Which also of course, means we lose access to burst skills and bonuses - as the dragon trigger stuff is counted as a burst skill for traits. 

 

But also. seriously. WHY does dragon trigger, give us weapon swap CD? is that a bug? 

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1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The competitive mode version of the skill is weaker than an auto attack at 5s charge apparently.

So stupid. How does that make sense to anyone with a functioning brain? I was genuinely excited to try this thing out, but the damage in competitive modes is so incredibly bad … I don’t even know what to say. All of these ridiculous trade-offs for a kittening 5k crit? Seriously??? 

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I didnt think I'd like it as much as I did. I don't really have a huge interest in the gunsaber but the new elite skill (Tactical Reload) is really neat. I did some T1 fractals to test things out, no PvP yet.

 

The Fun stuff

I tweaked my Healbreaker build to instead use Bladesworn, a bunch of shouts, Tactical Reload to reload ammo. Then in my weapons I use Axe/Horn. I run around supporting my team by shouting at them and everything else. When my flow is up I use it all by popping my F1/F2. Don't really miss the weapon swap all that much as I can swap into F1, I often was swapping into GS anyhow so no big diff for me. Overall my damage is better than Healbreaker Dagger/Shield&Sword/Horn so I feel like I can finally support a little bit and then dps a little bit. Pretty nice! Not sure if this stays the same at higher play though (only on T2 fractals). I also no longer have a shield so I have no CC at all to help break bars, which is a bit not great.

 

The Not-So Fun stuff

Swapping into Dragon Trigger and using the skills felt like it was slowing me down a lot. When there was a boss fight I would often find myself standing still and waiting to power up. Kind of felt bad for my party who where desperately fighting the boss, while I was being anime in the background. Maybe it'll just take some getting used to. I made sure to go in using Daring Dragon as the charge time without it felt insane. But even with this, I felt like I was waiting too long to swoop once or twice before popping back into my axe/horn support role. It felt like I was missing some horn toots with how long I had to wait to get Dragon Slash off.

Off-hand gun is not great imo. I can't bring myself to replace a shield (for lots of CC and block) or a horn (for the buffs) with a pistol that pew pews a bit. Not in PvP or PvE I don't think.

 

Ps. Not sure if this is a bug, but when I Dragon Slash into a boss with a force field, for example the end boss of the Thaumanova Reactor Fractal, I get stuck inside the field rather than darting through it. I tried this 3 times and each time I would stop right on the boss and wobble out of the force field. Minor annoyance but felt a bit clunky, cant I dart through him and his force field? Or slam against his force field and do the damage without entering it?

Edited by Hobo.7813
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2 minutes ago, ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:

Also can you give the pistol 5 skill more range, like 500, 250 is basically up the guy's nose for a ranged weapon.

I think it would be cool to do more damage the closer you are, like 250, 500, 750 as a kind of damage falloff that a lot of shooter games use. When I first saw this skill it made me think of fan the hammer from Overwatch which is most effective up close.

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The main issue is a less obvious one with dragon trigger. You can't use skills during it, meaning you can't shout for might/use the heal to buff it, and you can't CLEAR CONDITIONS WHILE YOU'RE STANDING STILL CHARGING. haha Please change this.

Edit:  Skills started randomly working in dragon trigger so not sure if that was updated or user error. But yeah absolutely not usable in competitive, I made a later post explaining my reasoning.

Edited by Lindsae.3520
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Having to swap to gunsaber first to access Dragon Trigger feels very limiting. Making it accessible from either weapon set or adding core burst in place of Trigger when outside of the gunsaber would go a long way to improving the responsiveness.

Other than that warrior mains are better to listen to and they pointed out the rest of things.

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Trying my best but I am not having a good time with this new class.  I tried my usual tests, fighting a Hydra, fighting in drizzlewood.  I am legit having trouble even killing the hydra.  All the attacks do so little damage, and the one big attack is super hard to actually land because everything in the game has a range attack that interrupts you.

 

The pistol is good though.  Although its weird that it has so little range.  Is the idea that the gun is exploding in our faces?

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6 hours ago, daiball.5349 said:

I think its really fun to play but find its lacking a lot of damage in pvp for the set up required, max dragon trigger did about 3 to 6 thousand damage which for a skill that requires so much set up seems pretty low.

the set up to do an F2 dragon skill is never really going to work in pvp--  its too slow to charge to do any decent amount of damage.

 

Perhaps lower the F2 flow bar to 50 instead of 100?  I cant see gettign of a meaningful dragon skill in pvp.

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2 minutes ago, punahou.3986 said:

the set up to do an F2 dragon skill is never really going to work in pvp--  its too slow to charge to do any decent amount of damage.

 

Perhaps lower the F2 flow bar to 50 instead of 100?  I cant see gettign of a meaningful dragon skill in pvp.

They could keep the damage the same but make it charge a lot faster in pvp but I dunno would probably need a design tweak to work in pvp

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