New WvW system with maxed out guilds and none are WvW :(

[primatos.5413]

They could make it 10 guilds still some players would complain  😞

[Strider Pj.2193]

Evidently, the ‘WvW’ guild you want to select is not  important enough to drop one of your ‘non personal’ guilds.  
 

That’s really what this comes down to.

 

Its kind of like bank slots…. I have maxed them out..  I need more space..,  But I have hoarded crap 💩 that I do not need.  That’s on Me.  Not Anet. 
 

If the remaining 4 non personal bank guilds are that important to you, then the WvW one isn’t.  Be a random.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

If the remaining 4 non personal bank guilds are that important to you, then the WvW one isn’t.  Be a random.

The current system allows for players to be part-time WvWers, without it being your primary activity. The new system creates a strict segregation between full-time WvWers and everyone else. Which may push some of the part-timers into just dropping the content completely (or decreasing their participation).

[Dawdler.8521]

20 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The current system allows for players to be part-time WvWers, without it being your primary activity. The new system creates a strict segregation between full-time WvWers and everyone else. Which may push some of the part-timers into just dropping the content completely (or decreasing their participation).

But when people say they dont have room for a WvW guild because all their guilds are PvE, havent they already strictly segregated themselves from WvW? Why would they drop the content any more than they obviously already have since they chose PvE?

[Strider Pj.2193]

31 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The current system allows for players to be part-time WvWers, without it being your primary activity. The new system creates a strict segregation between full-time WvWers and everyone else. Which may push some of the part-timers into just dropping the content completely (or decreasing their participation).

The new system doesn’t change whether they choose to be part time wvw’ers.

The player chooses.  Period.  Just like I choose to hoard stuff in my bank.

 

[Gibson.4036]

50 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

But when people say they dont have room for a WvW guild because all their guilds are PvE, havent they already strictly segregated themselves from WvW? Why would they drop the content any more than they obviously already have since they chose PvE?

Nevermind, my response was a weird tangent.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Jilora.9524]

Sure sounds like if they raised it to 6 you would join a guild with a Cantha guild hall. Would you join your frands as a 7th guild? Or 8th? Like I really don't see how the I'm a casual WvW who plays with my frands once in a while really matters. You want more slots sure I'm all for that but to act like they need to account for that dude who puts 2h of wvw every few weeks just go as a random then. Not like you lose much.

[Dawdler.8521]

20 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I'd say because the players who play part time rely on the players who play more to be leaders in WvW. A part time player gets in game and finds someone who has experience and supports that player. If they show up and there aren't any competent leaders, only a bunch of other part-time players, it will be a very different experience.

But that's the same for everyone, lol. Hardcore fight guild members randomly hopping into WvW will have the same experience. They can be outnumbered, they can have no commander, they can have just random pugs fielded at that moment in time. Nothing of that matter for the guild you are in or the world you are on.

[Gibson.4036]

1 minute ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

But that's the same for everyone, lol. Hardcore fight guild members randomly hopping into WvW will have the same experience. They can be outnumbered, they can have no commander, they can have just random pugs fielded at that moment in time. Nothing of that matter for the guild you are in or the world you are on.

Yeah. Although I'd expect it's going to be much more unlikely to find an experience leader once the experienced players are matched and the casual players are lumped together. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

But, I realized my whole post here was a tangent that had nothing to do with the OP not wanting to give up a personal guild for a WvW guild, so I went back and deleted it. Sorry for the bunny trail.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

The new system doesn’t change whether they choose to be part time wvw’ers.

The player chooses.  Period.  Just like I choose to hoard stuff in my bank.

Yes. The system does not change player choices. It changes the consequences of those choices. For fulltimers and complete randoms that doesn't change much, but for part-timers it is a change for the worse.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Norbe.7630]

8 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes. The system does not change player choices. It changes the consequences of those choices. For fulltimers and complete randoms that doesn't change much, but for part-timers it is a change for the worse.

Wait. Care to explain the consequences for part-timers?
I thought randoms = part-timers... (PvE players just do WvW for dailies or just go there for the Legendary items and Gift of Battle)

But for me, the most important (by order) is the WvW player which is the backbone of WvW, next is the randoms which fills the manpower anytime/anywhere, and the least are the part-timers which are the problem in WvW as they create match imbalances as they come and go and queue a map as they please leaving WvW players stuck on queue for hours as they managed a schedule with other guilds to run alternate days and take turns for their guild raid.

What im so very curious about is why do these part-timers separate themselves from randoms, and why they don't want to play with randoms anyway?
Do they want to be on the winning side alliance and be carried by dedicated WvW players?

[displayname.8315]

3 minutes ago, Norbe.7630 said:

What im so very curious about is why do these part-timers separate themselves from randoms, and why they don't want to play with randoms anyway?
Do they want to be on the winning side alliance and be carried by dedicated WvW players?

Taking away the bandwagon and now they are part time WvW players who should get placed with the biggest stack of guilds they can find.

[Stormwolf.8567]

Agreed - I've been saying this for months... I also have 4 PvE-flavoured guilds and a 'personal guild-bank', none of which I'm prepared to give up ...it's never mattered as the guild I mostly run around with in WvW has never cared about repping but now I almost certainly won't be able to play with them any more as there's no way for me to make sure I am in the same alliance.   In fact none of my guild have enough active WvW players for any of the guilds to be welcome in an alliance .
I also don't understand why anyone would be against the idea of a single, extra guild slot given that this change has been imposed after so many years - you'd get the extra slot too.  Or they could make it optional ...you know...buy an extra guild slot for 500gems... that's the GW2 way :P

 

[Norbe.7630]

1 minute ago, displayname.8315 said:

Taking away the bandwagon and now they are part time WvW players who should get placed with the biggest stack of guilds they can find.

Yeah, thats what exactly what im thinking about their motives are.
But i'll just have to wait for any other reasons for the consequences mentioned.

[Xenesis.6389]

3 minutes ago, Stormwolf.8567 said:

Agreed - I've been saying this for months... I also have 4 PvE-flavoured guilds and a 'personal guild-bank', none of which I'm prepared to give up ...it's never mattered as the guild I mostly run around with in WvW has never cared about repping but now I almost certainly won't be able to play with them any more as there's no way for me to make sure I am in the same alliance.   In fact none of my guild have enough active WvW players for any of the guilds to be welcome in an alliance .
I also don't understand why anyone would be against the idea of a single, extra guild slot given that this change has been imposed after so many years - you'd get the extra slot too.  Or they could make it optional ...you know...buy an extra guild slot for 500gems... that's the GW2 way 😛

 

Well, if you're friends with that guild it probably wouldn't be a problem for them to have you rep your personal guild as your battle guild and add into an alliance with them, it would just be one person afterall, and there's no limit to guilds to add. The only issue with this would be if they're joining a big alliance and they are strict on who joins.

[Astralporing.1957]

Just now, Norbe.7630 said:

Wait. Care to explain the consequences for part-timers?
I thought randoms = part-timers... (PvE players just do WvW for dailies or just go there for the Legendary items and Gift of Battle)

It's not binary. There are players that focus on WvW content, and there are those that jump in only to get their GoB, dailies or kitty tag, sure, but there are also players in-between. Those that play the content more extensively, but not necessarily on predictable basis, and not as their only (or primary) content type. Those i call part-timers.

Currently, that distinction between full-timers and part-timers is less important for theWvW guilds and server communities, but once alliances will fully go in, with their population cap it will be necessary for guilds to pick and choose their members according to their "dedication" rates. You will have only 500 slots, so it will be far more beneficial to fill them with full-time players, than part-timers whom you would not be sure whether they will show up this week or not. As such, the decision on whether to belong to a community or not might be taken out of hands of such a part-time player unless they will be willing to dedicate to mode more.

Today, all you have to do is to manage to get on the server you want, which is not something other players can decide for you. Tomorrow, other players will get to vote whether you should be allowed to join the "server" or not.

 

Just now, Norbe.7630 said:

What im so very curious about is why do these part-timers separate themselves from randoms, and why they don't want to play with randoms anyway?
Do they want to be on the winning side alliance and be carried by dedicated WvW players?

Some of them do have friends that play WvW full-time they like to play with from time to time, you know. And vice versa, some of the full-time WvWers do have more casual friends they tend to invite for some WvW from time to time.

In the new system, the circle of friendship will get separated by content played a lot more than it is now. And when that happens, it is always bad (at least as i see it).

[Astralporing.1957]

6 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

The only issue with this would be if they're joining a big alliance and they are strict on who joins.

Considering a limited population cap on whole alliance, i'd say that if the guild won't be strict about who joins, it would mean they aren't that serious about WvW at all.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 minute ago, Stormwolf.8567 said:

Agreed - I've been saying this for months... I also have 4 PvE-flavoured guilds and a 'personal guild-bank', none of which I'm prepared to give up ...it's never mattered as the guild I mostly run around with in WvW has never cared about repping but now I almost certainly won't be able to play with them any more as there's no way for me to make sure I am in the same alliance.   In fact none of my guild have enough active WvW players for any of the guilds to be welcome in an alliance .
I also don't understand why anyone would be against the idea of a single, extra guild slot given that this change has been imposed after so many years - you'd get the extra slot too.  Or they could make it optional ...you know...buy an extra guild slot for 500gems... that's the GW2 way 😛

Nobody will care if they add an extra guild slot. That's fine. People are arguing how loopsided the demands on having more guilds is when they've already chosen PvE over WvW. Which your situation demonstrate perfectly. You have 4 PvE guilds. 4! And you cant drop any of them. You've clearly made a choice here.

Are you sure the people in that guild you run with, if they choose it at their WvW guild, would even want you with the new way guilds/alliances will work if you cant put up a single of your guild slots to play with them?

And as Xenesis says, technically your "issue" could probably be solved by you and them being in the same alliance. Well except the argument then becomes, would the alliance even want you?

In the end, it's ok to be a random. We're all randoms at some point. I'm in 2 WvW guilds and I still fight alone most of the time.

[Norbe.7630]

4 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Those that play the content more extensively, but not necessarily on predictable basis, and not as their only (or primary) content type. Those i call part-timers.

So, i'll get back to the middle part i have replied earlier, that the part-timers create problems for full time guilds playing on a scheduled day run.

Imagine Guild X runs M-W-F and Guild Y runs T-Th-S and Guild Z runs Su as they all agreed upon to prevent each other from queueing a map and to fit All their members for an enjoyable day/evening of WvW.
Then the part-timers just entered out of a sudden and entered the map before the scheduled run on full time guilds....
Who wins.... who lose...?
That is the current consequences for full time WvW guilds as of this moment.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, Norbe.7630 said:

So, i'll get back to the middle part i have replied earlier, that the part-timers create problems for full time guilds playing on a scheduled day run.

Imagine Guild X runs M-W-F and Guild Y runs T-Th-S and Guild Z runs Su as they all agreed upon to prevent each other from queueing a map and to fit All their members for an enjoyable day/evening of WvW.
Then the part-timers just entered out of a sudden and entered the map before the scheduled run on full time guilds....
Who wins.... who lose...?
That is the current consequences for full time WvW guilds as of this moment.

Well, yeah, if you do not want part-timers in your WvW, then you might indeed see this change as good, as it will result in a greater separation of different groups of players, and in hardcore WvWers being able to gatekeep more casual WvWers better. As long as it won;t result in too big of a decrease in the overall WvW population, of course.

[Norbe.7630]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, yeah, if you do not want part-timers in your WvW, then you might indeed see this change as good, as it will result in a greater separation of different groups of players, and in hardcore WvWers being able to gatekeep more casual WvWers better. As long as it won;t result in too big of a decrease in the overall WvW population, of course.

Oh no, not that, i didn't say i do not want part-timers in WvW. What im saying is why do part-timers don't want to play WvW as a part-timer... a random....

Want to play with friends in WvW? - Join their WvW guild....

Don't want to let go of PvE guilds but want to play with WvW friends and thinks that the friends don't want part-timers in their alliance? - ask yourself if they are really friends....

[Chaba.5410]

37 minutes ago, Stormwolf.8567 said:

it's never mattered as the guild I mostly run around with in WvW has never cared about repping

 

Not caring about repping seems like the result of Anet taking away guild reputation so many years ago and replacing it with guild mission favor.  A lot of guilds used to have 100% rep requirements.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[Xenesis.6389]

17 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Considering a limited population cap on whole alliance, i'd say that if the guild won't be strict about who joins, it would mean they aren't that serious about WvW at all.

 

Sorry but I don't think every single alliance is going to be fully stacked with hardcores only, I'm sure there will be plenty of smaller alliances that run with 2-3 guilds in it. Over the years there have been many guilds that moved on their own or with partner guilds to get away from stacked servers, now suddenly they'll all want to be in super stacked 500 man alliances? I don't buy it.

 

As for the people who have four pve guilds and unwilling to drop one for a wvw guild, you're basically not willing to commit to wvw, so why should a wvw guild or alliance commit to you?

 

But I still agree they need to add another guild slot for this change, to make the process as painless as possible. Not a maybe we'll see, no if you're at that point where it's a maybe possible to do, then enough smoke and mirrors, announce the the addition, do it, and let's move on with the process Anet.

[Astralporing.1957]

42 minutes ago, Norbe.7630 said:

Don't want to let go of PvE guilds but want to play with WvW friends and thinks that the friends don't want part-timers in their alliance? - ask yourself if they are really friends....

It's a bad design that forces you to decide between playing with friends and playing the content you like the way you like. Besides, i'd never make any of my friends have to give up their preferred gameplay style for the sake of friendship - because if i were to do that, *I* would be a bad friend.

[Norbe.7630]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

playing the content you like the way you like.

I will repeat, the current consequences of those type of players is match imbalances which plagued WvW for years.

But yeah... sure how many guilds you would like to add?
I propose 99 guild slots, one for each max toon slots you can have.

Which one will you represent?
How many game modes can you play?
You wanna flood your chat box with those guildies chatting randomly?