New WvW system with maxed out guilds and none are WvW :(

[Dawdler.8521]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

Do you really want to consistently run in a situation where you have a small queue on Eb and your borderlands are practically empty, when your opponents have their sides filled, just because your guild decided to fill a lot of guild spots with everyone's semi-casual friends?

Luckily my guild wont be only one on the team. 

[Norbe.7630]

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Do you really think that any reasonable WvW leader that feels responsible for his/her guild is going to give precious slots to , as you said, "floaters", over dedicated WvW players?

Yes

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Does that really make someone a bad guild leader?

I guess I don't understand what you're saying.  A raid only has 10 slots available.  A PvE raid group will have their 10 regular raiders and the rest would be subs not able to always raid. 

In raid, you can change the raid squad whenever. If someone won't come, you can add someone else. But if the raid squad was locked for the whole week (the same way WvW team will get locked for the matchup), you would not be able to fill in the slots of missing players. You'd have to hope the remaining ones will be able to pull the weight. In such a case, wouldn't you rather have a squad of 10 more dependable people, rather than, say, 5 dependable ones, and 5 that may show up or not, depending on their mood?

[Chaba.5410]

14 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

In raid, you can change the raid squad whenever. If someone won't come, you can add someone else. But if the raid squad was locked for the whole week (the same way WvW team will get locked for the matchup), you would not be able to fill in the slots of missing players. You'd have to hope the remaining ones will be able to pull the weight. In such a case, wouldn't you rather have a squad of 10 more dependable people, rather than, say, 5 dependable ones, and 5 that may show up or not, depending on their mood?

Because a guild's WvW roster will get locked for the duration of a season is exactly why a WvW guild would include some % of casuals on their roster.  Truly bad guild leaders won't understand this.  80/20 seems like a good ratio, don't you think?  Thank you.  It still requires people to actually join the guild though.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[Norbe.7630]

26 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

 say, 5 dependable ones, and 5 that may show up or not,

I just hope the floaters (casuals) are not fixed on a team as they can just fill any random matches anytime it lacks manpower

But here to get you a better understanding on those raid squad numbers you were saying that we already know.

 

[Chaba.5410]

34 minutes ago, Norbe.7630 said:

But here to get you a better understanding on those raid squad numbers you were saying that we already know.

 

The only thing I didn't like about this video is it implies that the buckets get filled based on numbers rather than activity levels because the narrator never made that distinction.  A solo guild with daily hardcore wvw activity can end up being a bigger rock than a small alliance of casuals that only play reset.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[Norbe.7630]

12 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

The only thing I didn't like about this video is it implies that the buckets get filled based on numbers rather than activity levels because the narrator never made that distinction.  A solo guild with daily hardcore wvw activity can end up being a bigger rock than a small alliance of casuals.

As we already talked about on your other thread is the API thing in the gw2mist right.
The tangible value that Anet will collect is how many people checked the checkbox their WvW battle guild.
Then the activity ratio or average per member of the whole guild. (Guild total activity divided by number of members).
I think those will be used as matchmaking for alliances per guilds per numbers.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Norbe.7630

[Chaba.5410]

21 minutes ago, Norbe.7630 said:

As we already talked about on your other thread is the API thing in the gw2mist right.
The tangible value that Anet will collect is how many people checked the checkbox their WvW battle guild.
Then the activity ratio or average per member of the whole guild. (Guild total activity divided by number of members).
I think those will be used as matchmaking for alliances per guilds per numbers.

That's exactly what I said.  Buckets are going to be filled not by numbers of players but activity.  The video doesn't make that clear.

The only assumption I'm making is that the activity level will be calculated the same way population is now for servers: a rolling average of play hours smoothed out over several weeks.  Instead of players on a server, they'll feed players in a guild or in an alliance to that algorithm.  They've said they may look at other stats too.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[Norbe.7630]

12 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

That's exactly what I said.  Buckets are going to be filled not by numbers of players but activity.  The video doesn't make that clear.

The only assumption I'm making is that the activity level will be calculated the same way population is now for servers: a rolling average of play hours smoothed out over several weeks.  Instead of players on a server, they'll feed players in a guild or in an alliance to that algorithm.  They've said they may look at other stats too.

This is what i think and hope for.
For forming a team alliance match the factors to be considered should be guild activity ratio on a timezone span of skirmishes.
For forming a tier/division matches then other factors should all be included such as total kills ppts captures within the whole match since they said teams will be destroyed after every match so its not 1u1d but a full matchmaking
 

[Norbe.7630]

To make it more understandable i will just simplify the guild name based on server/community name.

Tier 1: Red vs Blue vs Green
Blackgate Community Guild Rating with 200 registered on checkbox: 3500
Yak's Bend Community Guild with 100 registered rating  on checkbox: 2500
Jade Quarry Community Guild with 100 registered rating on checkbox: 1000
Maguuma Community Guild with 50 registered  rating on checkbox: 2000
Crystal Desert Community Guild with 100 registered rating on checkbox: 1000

So the matches will be like :
BG (3500) vs YB+JQ (3500) vs Mag+CD+Floaters(3000+500)
200 vs 200 vs (150+50)

Edit: This is only for a certain timezone span to create part of the total team, on different timezone this can also be applied to be added to that total team, by their ratings/activity and numbers.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Norbe.7630

[displayname.8315]

4 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Because a guild's WvW roster will get locked for the duration of a season is exactly why a WvW guild would include some % of casuals on their roster.  Truly bad guild leaders won't understand this.  80/20 seems like a good ratio, don't you think?  Thank you.  It still requires people to actually join the guild though.

A guild that plays casually shouldn't care about participation. 

 

Hardcore guilds require a lot.  Must run their guild builds, expected to make raids on time.  If your dieing on inc you will be called out.  If your in PvE during raid your kicked..

 

If you want to be casual and don't mind getting one pushed and running back to feed all night then no big deal.

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, displayname.8315 said:

A guild that plays casually shouldn't care about participation. 

 

Hardcore guilds require a lot.  Must run their guild builds, expected to make raids on time.  If your dieing on inc you will be called out.  If your in PvE during raid your kicked..

 

If you want to be casual and don't mind getting one pushed and running back to feed all night then no big deal.

You may be surprised to learn then that guilds exist on a spectrum between those two polar opposites.

[ASP.8093]

7 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Do you really want to consistently run in a situation where you have a small queue on Eb and your borderlands are practically empty, when your opponents have their sides filled, just because your guild decided to fill a lot of guild spots with everyone's semi-casual friends, but the other WvW guilds decided to be more professional about it?

I'd much rather be outnumbered than queued out, honestly.

Since that way I still get to play.

[displayname.8315]

31 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

You may be surprised to learn then that guilds exist on a spectrum between those two polar opposites.

Yeah they are in T3 right now in the middle of the spectrum.  The dead rosters really show, FA is pretty much gone.

 

It is kinda surprising that you guys actually try to have 20% of your roster inactive accounts.

[azizul.8469]

just ditch one

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, displayname.8315 said:

It is kinda surprising that you guys actually try to have 20% of your roster inactive accounts.

No more surprising than you thinking that casuals and part-time players are inactive accounts.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Chaba.5410

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

No more surprising than you thinking that casuals and part-time players are inactive accounts.

I wasn't the one that wanted "floaters" gone from WvW, because they cannot be depended upon and all they do is take spots on map for "real" WvWers. And those are not my words either.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Svarty.8019]

16 hours ago, Norbe.7630 said:

I just hope the floaters (casuals) are not fixed on a team as they can just fill any random matches anytime it lacks manpower

But here to get you a better understanding on those raid squad numbers you were saying that we already know.

 

I'm really glad he mentioned the bandwagoners. The World Restructuring system is made to combat their actions, afaik. Ofc by now they all have accounts on multiple wor...er... teams (instead of spending gems) to break the new system.

 

16 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

The only thing I didn't like about this video is it implies that the buckets get filled based on numbers rather than activity levels because the narrator never made that distinction.  A solo guild with daily hardcore wvw activity can end up being a bigger rock than a small alliance of casuals that only play reset.

The simple activity level (it's probably the total of your Participation points) is the current method of determining your "worth" in WvW. This is likely to change in the future.

I was encouraged when the devs stated that they could (at some point ... eek!) use all manner of criteria to determine a hidden "worth" score (not an insult) in WvW. If you die a lot, your worth could be reduced, if you command, your worth might be increased, for example.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Svarty.8019

[Hentes.2590]

Seems like people expect each region to have multiple maxed out alliances, like 1 for each "team", but that won't happen. The WvW playerbase is nowhere near big enough and the actual guilds that play the gamemode regularly tend to hate each other for one reason or an other - specially the more hardcore ones. It should be the same as when big bandwagoning happens, people group up, maybe make a single 500 alliance which will implode within a couple weeks because toxicity or what have you, then part of that group will log to their alt accounts with their alt guild and keep playing.

If there is a single alliance that won't accept a 1 person guild, there are issues, they shouldn't care about how hardcore or dedicated you are as long as you join voice and follow them even if its a single time per week.

The alliance system also tries to incentivize having different types of group together, you probably want a big fighting guild, some PPT players, some night crew, some roamers, and of course the most important, some scouts and now maybe those types of players can band together or find a group to "belong to" and if need be, join the alliance on their bank / personal guild.

[displayname.8315]

32 minutes ago, Hentes.2590 said:

If there is a single alliance that won't accept a 1 person guild, there are issues, they shouldn't care about how hardcore or dedicated you are as long as you join voice and follow them even if its a single time per week.

Why would a once a week solo blame others for not getting an invite.  The "issue" is that sort of entitlement.

 

Join the voice comms if you want.  Alliance/guild is for people who want a dedicated community.  Solo/scrub shouldn't even care about that stuff.

[Chaba.5410]

8 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I wasn't the one that wanted "floaters" gone from WvW

Who wanted that?

[Chaba.5410]

4 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

The simple activity level (it's probably the total of your Participation points) is the current method of determining your "worth" in WvW. This is likely to change in the future.

Yep.  I included the caveat in other posts that they said they'd look at other stats in the future.  It is most likely that they'd do the first match-making test with the current method though to keep the test focused on forming teams rather than what algorithm works best.

[StrangerDanger.3496]

lol at this fantasy scenario.  Why on earth is a causal guild going to sign up for WvW?  They wont.  People in that casual guild who want WvW will rep a WvW guild for the game mode.  Or they can choose no WvW guild and go RNG on server placement every reset.

 

Lets not pretend this system will be anything other than everyone wanting to join the top 3 WvW guilds, which will also have sub guilds probably with all the people wanting to join, like a training or trial guild that will be on another alliance as theyll only want the no-lifer or absolute chads on their main tag.

 

The only thing this should change, is that youll never be stuck with people in WvW for more than one reset.  

[Riba.3271]

Increasing amount of guilds was a mistake. At least for WvWs part. Before guilds used to stand for something, not for 1/5th of something. No legendary, or systematically creative, guild can exist anymore.

Going back to 1 guild per player would be nice but its not happening. This is Pleb Wars now. Might as well give people 2000 guilds.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Threather.9354