Stop ruining new Elite Specs with trade-offs, cast times and insane aftercasts

[Kuma.1503]

2 hours ago, Filip.7463 said:

Wdym f5 is god tier

 

EOD is like

core ele better than crapper

core rev beteer than vindi

core war better than trashblade

core guard better than dogbender

core mes better than virtuoso

harbinger? Nahh, have u seen mm?

 

should i buy eod? Why i already saw the specs. should i play beta classes? Why, everything is better. Should i fish in game? Yes i like it so much i became fisherman irl.

 

Vindi is actually busted. People just haven't realized how broken the vigor trait is with Retribution and the heal dodge. 
 

This is the single best bunker in the game at the present. 

[Elementalist Owner.7802]

6 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Please don't listen to this guy.

You drove away many players with insanely OP and broken specs.

Take an example from these new releases and tone down POF and HOT even more(some).

At the very least no buffs.

 

Anything that induces a shrill giggle and look over the shoulder deserves a nerf.

PoF specs didn't kill the game simply because they were powerful, they killed the game because they were atrociously designed when it came to PvP/WvW. Of course, nerfing them to uselessness would indeed solve this problem, but you know Anet's asinine design philosophy of "wE wAnT fIrEbRaNd aNd sCoUrGe PlAyErS tO hAvE fUn tOo 😞"

[Zoser.7245]

Being a game with several game modes, not centered in competitive modes and watching the actual population. My biggest fear is if PvE players start to dislike the new specializations due to have clumsy mechanics, trade-offs, no-sense cast times and after-cast times for PvE, etc. You don't need to be very smart to see where the main source of profit for this game is coming from and lose it could be the end.  

Players of any game mode need to find their professions/specializations effective in its own way, dynamic, performing well and fun. Plus as balanced as possible. But never forget that it's better to have a not perfect PvP/WvW to play and have fun in a game with a healthy economy than don't have the game to play. 

There are plenty of ideas on feedback topics to analyze and more to come in the next few months. So it's up to them to do the changes to make the new specializations attractive enough to drive expansion sales and have a better future outlook before it's too late.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Zoser.7245

[Roads.5130]

8 hours ago, snoow.1694 said:

We have seen 6 elite specs so far,

No we have not, we have seen 6 elite spec BETAS. There is a huge and important difference between a finished product and an unfinished one. If you don't like playing unfinished specs, don't play them; if you have some feedback about the elite spec beta I am pretty sure everyone will welcome it, just don't make the mistake of thinking you have played an elite spec, you played a beta.

 

8 hours ago, snoow.1694 said:

but there is no denying that power creep right at the release of an expansion is alot more fun for PvP than whatever this is supposed to be right now.

"whatever this is supposed to be right now"??? You mean a BETA test??? Did you figure it out on your own that the release of an expansion is a lot more fun than its beta test??

Also, regarding the title of this thread "Stop ruining new Elite Specs with trade-offs, cast times and insane aftercasts" those are precisely the kind of things that can and should be fixed after beta testing them. They are not 'ruining new Elite specs' they haven't finished working on them.

[mortrialus.3062]

17 minutes ago, Roads.5130 said:

No we have not, we have seen 6 elite spec BETAS. There is a huge and important difference between a finished product and an unfinished one. If you don't like playing unfinished specs, don't play them; if you have some feedback about the elite spec beta I am pretty sure everyone will welcome it, just don't make the mistake of thinking you have played an elite spec, you played a beta.

 

"whatever this is supposed to be right now"??? You mean a BETA test??? Did you figure it out on your own that the release of an expansion is a lot more fun than its beta test??

Also, regarding the title of this thread "Stop ruining new Elite Specs with trade-offs, cast times and insane aftercasts" those are precisely the kind of things that can and should be fixed after beta testing them. They are not 'ruining new Elite specs' they haven't finished working on them.

We know this is a beta. No one is expecting to hop on these specs and get an easy ride to God of PvP. People are expecting bugs and clunk.

But what they aren't expecting is for these things to be so woefully undertuned you can't even test them.

Like Bladesworn's bread and butter damage skill, normal Gunsaber 2 not even talking dragon trigger, is criting for 2.5k on a full DPS build against players shows an insane disconnect between what the devs think can kill players and what you actually need to kill players.  And dragon trigger doing half the damage of DH True Shot is like absurd.  We knew it wasn't going to one shot they told us, but that's a joke.

Forget Beta, this isn't even alpha.  I refuse to believe like they gave these a few fights against like a core ranger or necro just to see if the damage numbers are actually high enough to accomplish anything.

Edited September 22, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Roads.5130]

On 9/21/2021 at 11:23 PM, mortrialus.3062 said:

No one is expecting to hop on these specs and get an easy ride to God of PvP.

Wrong, some people are expecting precisely just that. Just a couple of hours ago someone typed on WvW team chat "these new classes die just like the last ones lmao" ... I mean, yeah, they are supposed to, I think.

 

On 9/21/2021 at 11:23 PM, mortrialus.3062 said:

But what they aren't expecting is for these things to be so woefully undertuned you can't even test them.

They can be tested, they may be extremely weak, and it should show on the results from said tests, it's ok, it can be fixed.

 

On 9/21/2021 at 11:23 PM, mortrialus.3062 said:

Like Bladesworn's bread and butter damage skill....shows an insane disconnect between what the devs think can kill players and what you actually need to kill players.

And it's ok, it can and SHOULD be fixed, be sure to make it loud and clear how weak the BETA test elite spec is, ANET should appreciate it.

People who don't know what a beta test is, feel free to leave a confused emoji to raise awareness on the cognitive differences among gw2 players, we strive to be an inclusive community. 😌😌

Edited September 25, 2021 by Roads.5130

[mortrialus.3062]

21 minutes ago, Roads.5130 said:

Wrong, some people are expecting precisely just that. Just a couple of hours ago someone typed on WvW team chat "this new class dies just like any other lmao" ... I mean, yeah, they are supposed to, I think.

 

They can be tested, they may be extremely weak, and it should show on the results from said tests, it's ok, it can be fixed.

 

And it's ok, it can and SHOULD be fixed, be sure to make it loud and clear how weak the BETA test elite spec is, ANET should appreciate it.

This is CMC'S philosophy.  This isn't going to change.  Balance has been trending like this since he joined the dev team. And these are designed with his philosophy. 

You do not need a beta test to look at maul and True Shot and Death Strike criting for 9-10k and Gunblade 2 criting for 2.5k.  that's a philosophy thing. Not an untested thing 

[Roads.5130]

7 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

This is CMC'S philosophy.  This isn't going to change. 

You don't know that.

9 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Balance has been trending like this since he joined the dev team. And these are designed with his philosophy. 

And things can never change, right.

 

9 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

You do not need a beta test to look at maul and True Shot and Death Strike criting for 9-10k and Gunblade 2 criting for 2.5k.

I will let the developers of the game I enjoy playing decide if they need a beta test or not, and I don't see any value on thinking "they don't need this beta test to improve their design". If anything, following that logic, I would just refrain myself from participating in their beta testing.

 

13 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

that's a philosophy thing. Not an untested thing 

I will wait for the finished product before I make up my mind on what I think about their design philosophy, a beta test does not offer a complete idea of how the environment is going to look when the expansion launches. 

[mortrialus.3062]

15 minutes ago, Roads.5130 said:

You don't know that.

And things can never change, right.

 

I will let the developers of the game I enjoy playing decide if they need a beta test or not, and I don't see any value on thinking "they don't need this beta test to improve their design". If anything, following that logic, I would just refrain myself from participating in their beta testing.

 

I will wait for the finished product before I make up my mind on what I think about their design philosophy, a beta test does not offer a complete idea of how the environment is going to look when the expansion launches. 

We know from what CMC has said that the numbers we are seeing are a direct response to PoF specs being so power crept and that their number one goal is that they are not overperforming in PvP. They've succeeded.

[Roads.5130]

On 9/22/2021 at 12:41 AM, mortrialus.3062 said:

They've succeeded.

Yeah, that does not mean that they are finished balancing them.

If you don't know what a beta test is, leave a 'confused' emoji below 😂

Edited September 23, 2021 by Roads.5130

[Crab Fear.1624]

2 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

  I refuse to believe like they gave these a few fights against like a core ranger or necro just to see if the damage numbers are actually high enough to accomplish anything.

I think these are just problematic classes for everyone in the game right now.

Tankiness to high damage attrition is unfair.

 

 

[Pimsley.3681]

55 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

We know from what CMC has said that the numbers we are seeing are a direct response to PoF specs being so power crept and that their number one goal is that they are not overperforming in PvP. They've succeeded.

 

Well, marketing and the competitive design team need to have a talk. Their number one goal should be keeping this game enjoyable to its current base. Lol, us.  Im sure CMC is an incredibly smart guy but as part of the competitive dev team, these specs are anything but competitive. I really do hope they further polish these beta specs and necros because right now, they are rough. 

[Hotride.2187]

At least they make me feel strong when I fight them on spellbreaker 🙂

But yeah if most specs will be even weaker than spellbreaker (talking about wvw), I already feel sorry for the new expansion.

[Stalima.5490]

6 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

I think there is some strange PVP scaling going on there, since I tried full glass all of the signet stacks 25 might and berserker power and I got 6.5k crit for 5 second cast. CMC said there will be damage reduction but srlsy a damage cap. Berserker can one shot people with that useless full damage build, like wtf was the grand idea of adding charging for 5 seconds if it does nothing over casting it for 1 and dealing 4k on a build with the defense traitline, like it should be able to pull at least 25k for sitting on one spot for 5 seconds. 
I know this is a beta but really how many bugs does this thing have. Also how will they get data of the beta if people drop playing it after 1 hour (high estimate) if it is so bad.

 

I believe they may be concerned about the stun component on one trait, which may not be the best Idea to put into the game, it means if it is able to do 10k then it is a 10k damage stun also... bit of a trait issue there.

 

[Tescao.3042]

Perhaps there is a chance that not only will the new specs take small leaps forward, but the hot and pof specs and some favorited core specs will slow down as they move closer to the new specs.

[Spellhunter.9675]

New elites are good in a world where we don't have HoT and PoF elites.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Spellhunter.9675

[Vancho.8750]

54 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

 

I believe they may be concerned about the stun component on one trait, which may not be the best Idea to put into the game, it means if it is able to do 10k then it is a 10k damage stun also... bit of a trait issue there.

 

I tested it on every trait, I don't want to be an kitten, but can you stop posting nonsense if you don't know what you are talking about.

[mortrialus.3062]

44 minutes ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

New elites are good in a world where we don't have HoT and PoF elites.

Or core.

Or other traitlines period.

[Disney.7826]

8 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

 

Vindi is actually busted. People just haven't realized how broken the vigor trait is with Retribution and the heal dodge. 
 

This is the single best bunker in the game at the present. 

“Bunker”….

 

about dmg build, vindicator is years behind core rev

[Mik.3401]

This expansion makes me believe they just don’t know how to make a PvP mode and just left it. All 6 classes underperform I agree. They lack fluidity whilst core ones flow like a dream despite not being meta

[Jumpel.3972]

1 hour ago, Mik.3401 said:

This expansion makes me believe they just don’t know how to make a PvP mode and just left it. All 6 classes underperform I agree. They lack fluidity whilst core ones flow like a dream despite not being meta

It's better to have underperforming espec they can buff after, than overpower like  for PoF wich they never  succefully balance

[mortrialus.3062]

44 minutes ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

It's better to have underperforming espec they can buff after, than overpower like  for PoF wich they never  succefully balance

Other way around actually.  It's better to have things you know have the tools to succeed than a bunch of characters or classes that don't and languish unplayed for years while trying to puzzle out what they're missing.

 

Like imagine if the latest guilty gear introduced 9 new characters and literally none of them were good.  It'd be am embarrassment.  A total disaster.

Edited September 22, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Mik.3401]

52 minutes ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

It's better to have underperforming espec they can buff after, than overpower like  for PoF wich they never  succefully balance

That’s debatable because for instance Virtuoso is a class which just cannot be buffed - it’s crap in it’s core

[Genesis.5169]

What do you guys expect you guys have been beating up on anet for 8 years. You guys can't see it though everyone has ptsd even anet. I've been playing mesmer all my life this is something we as mesmer mains have been living with since Anet got rid of IP and chronophantasma then did whoops and gave it back.

 

No other class has anet routinely destroyed you guys just feeling that just now, maybe you guys will move forward and not cry and come to the forums everytime some one kills you because they are a better player how about you guys post thoughtful suggestions so we don't have to go through anet playing the NO risk game for pvp because you guys can't be bothered to learn.

[Jumpel.3972]

15 minutes ago, Mik.3401 said:

That’s debatable because for instance Virtuoso is a class which just cannot be buffed - it’s crap in it’s core

 People said they the same thing for dragonhunter at the HoT beta but then they buffed it before the launch and it's become stupidly overpower.

 

Futhermore, a e-spec like Vituoso may stay forever crap in it's core in pvp but it's better than have a forever overpower Scourge