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Matchmaking Metrics and New Players


Gibson.4036

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I just started playing WvW last week. I played enough in one week to complete silver skirmish and get my warclaw. I'm playing a handful of hours this week as well.

It sounds like the matchmaking metric is largely on hours played, though I haven't seen an indication of whether that means lifetime or over a period prior to the season, or a mix of both. My time so far, as a non-guild newbie has been heavily reliant on following around players (both big groups and small havoc groups) and learning from them as I stumble along.

In the future, with my week and a half played in the prior season, my lifetime play measured in having only reached rank 26 (under 150% booster last week, 250% yesterday), what will my experience be like as a non-guild player?

If the metrics are entirely about time played in the last season, until I join a guild I'll forever be among my peers... those who play a handful of hours in WvW a week. I'm going to be encountering casual PVX guilds in WvW and getting invites from them. I'm probably not going to see a lot of organized tactics to learn from.

If the metrics take into account lifetime play, that will help. The longer I stick with WvW, even at my handful of hours a week, the more I'll get matched up with dedicated WvW players. Still, the early learning period is not going to be with those players.

I know the answer is find a guild to join. I totally plan to do this, but at the moment we are in this hybrid place, and it doesn't make sense to restrict myself to guilds on my world when world is going to be a moot point in the near future.

It does seem like, once the restructuring is complete, that there will be a pretty significant barrier between newer players and experienced. Likely the only way newcomers are going to encounter guilds with experience is to find them outside the game, through the looking for guild forums, or forum web sites. By all means, this restructuring seems very important for the WvW vets to make the game work like it should for them. And as the faithful players in the game mode, they deserve it. But no game mode is going to last without a fresh infusion of new players, and it's hard to see how that happens if newcomers have a significant hurdle to overcome to even end up interacting with the vets.

I hope this doesn't come off as complaint. These are just my musings and questions from my position as a current newcomer (of sorts) to the game mode.

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36 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Every single alliance will have dedicated players. You will be assigned as a random to one of those until you join a guild and can stay with them or an alliance you like. It's not like they gonna pit 1500 guild members vs 1500 randoms. Each alliance will have both.

 

You probably worded it wrong, but just so people keep the picture clear...

Alliance are not Worlds. Randoms joining after world creations are assigned to worlds that have space, not to alliances. Alliances are capped at 500 members.

Alliances = Guilds grouped together for placement in a world. You join alliances by joining a guild in an alliance.

Worlds will be sorted to spread out alliances, single guilds, single players according to all the metrics they're using.

 

2 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It sounds like the matchmaking metric is largely on hours played, though I haven't seen an indication of whether that means lifetime or over a period prior to the season, or a mix of both. My time so far, as a non-guild newbie has been heavily reliant on following around players (both big groups and small havoc groups) and learning from them as I stumble along.

In the future, with my week and a half played in the prior season, my lifetime play measured in having only reached rank 26 (under 150% booster last week, 250% yesterday), what will my experience be like as a non-guild player?

As a non guild player your experience will be the same, you will still be surrounded by big and small groups as usual, you might even see more than usual, due to returning players for the system, or if they compact the amount of worlds down from the current 12 for matches. It will change every eight weeks much like relink would match you with a different server to see new team mates for another eight weeks.

The difference now is all your team mates may be new to you every eight weeks, if there's players you wish to stick with you would have to join guilds to be with them, or other guilds in their alliance if there's any, or by chance and be randomly matched with them in their worlds.

Edited by Xenesis.6389
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7 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

You probably worded it wrong, but just so people keep the picture clear...

Alliance are not Worlds. Randoms joining after world creations are assigned to worlds that have space, not to alliances. Alliances are capped at 500 members.

Alliances = Guilds grouped together for placement in a world. You join alliances by joining a guild in an alliance.

Worlds will be sorted to spread out alliances, single guilds, single players according to all the metrics they're using.

 

As a non guild player your experience will be the same, you will still be surrounded by big and small groups as usual, you might even see more than usual, due to returning players for the system, or if they compact the amount of worlds down from the current 12 for matches. It will change every eight weeks much like relink would match you with a different server to see new team mates for another eight weeks.

The difference now is all your team mates may be new to you every eight weeks, if there's players you wish to stick with you would have to join guilds to be with them, or other guilds in their alliance if there's any, or by chance and be randomly matched with them in their worlds.

Your right. I should of use world. Every single world will have an alliance plus randoms. I mean I'll be a random and when I log in I will be like oh I'm in the world with Indo's alliance this time or insert random commander the next time so his world will have at least 500 dedicated players he can follow. 

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I'm confused then. From Josh's post:

Quote

Speaking of, we’ve been running matchmaking tests using that player activity data. Before we talk about details, I’ll note that because we didn’t have “WvW Guild” selection available to players as of yesterday, these tests sorted individual players and not guilds into the new Team structure. Despite this caveat, things are going pretty well! For context, in the existing World and World Linking system, we could see as much as a 50% difference in player activity between the largest and smallest worlds. In the new system, when sorting individual players we were able to balance each server to within .007% of each other, even when accounting for languages. Adding guilds and eventually alliances will reduce granularity and we expect that disparity will grow a bit, but it’s a promising start and gives us a lot of confidence for Friday.

It looks to me like the plan is to take the most active guilds and individual players and put them in a world together, then the next slice of activity, on down to the least active.

Or is it the complete opposite, and they're mixing very active with least active to make every single world really close to the same average activity among all players on any given world?

It definitely doesn't look like solo players are randomly assigned. They're part of the metric calculation.

And my apologies if I'm being obtuse about this system. I keep rereading the dev posts and still don't seem to be understanding how this all works. 

Edited by Gibson.4036
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23 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Your right. I should of use world. Every single world will have an alliance plus randoms. I mean I'll be a random and when I log in I will be like oh I'm in the world with Indo's alliance this time or insert random commander the next time so his world will have at least 500 dedicated players he can follow. 

Unlike what people keep thinking, Anet cant create human players out of thin air and they probably wont fill alliances with bots so every one of them is 500 players. 

There might be 20 alliances on a single team* for we know. And them combined could be as many players as 1 alliance on another team. Anet doesnt control how many guilds there are, how many alliances they create and how big their alliances are. 30 people in an alliance is still an alliance unless Anet restrict the creation to 500 man guilds only (which is kind of redundant, lol).

*since the terms world and server is obsolete and Anet calls it "team" now, lol

Edited by Dawdler.8521
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43 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I'm confused then. From Josh's post:

It looks to me like the plan is to take the most active guilds and individual players and put them in a world together, then the next slice of activity, on down to the least active.

Or is it the complete opposite, and they're mixing very active with least active to make every single world really close to the same average activity among all players on any given world?

It definitely doesn't look like solo players are randomly assigned. They're part of the metric calculation.

And my apologies if I'm being obtuse about this system. I keep rereading the dev posts and still don't seem to be understanding how this all works. 

I think the process is going to be more like this.

World 1 -> World 2 -> World 3

Then mix

Most active alliance -> Mid active alliance -> least active alliance

Then mix 

Least active guilds -> Mid active guilds -> most active guilds

Then mix

Random players will mixed accordingly to fill in the spaces to even it all out.

So yes to your second question, they're filling worlds one by one by each category, and not just completely filling one and then moving to the next.

Interesting to see even with language sorting they're able to bring the difference down to a miniscule percentage on matching.

Edited by Xenesis.6389
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16 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

 

So yes to your second question, they're filling worlds one by one by each category, and not just completely filling one and then moving to the next.

Interesting to see even with language sorting they're able to bring the difference down to a miniscule percentage on matching.

That makes a lot of sense! If they really are able to, then, get mixes that really are that close from team to team, then it actually improves the lot of low-frequency players and newcomers. The minimal players will be mixed in to balance some of the maximal players, and there will be better cross-polination, so to speak, than what we have right now, where all serious player gravitate toward the serious servers with transfers.

That sounds pretty exciting.

It does make me wonder what the max population of a given team is. How many alliances+randoms will fit into anyone team. In order to get that kind of balance, it'd have to be many, so one alliance doesn't overbalance a team all on its own.

Edited by Gibson.4036
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Just now, Gibson.4036 said:

That makes a lot of sense! If they really are able to, then, get mixes that really are that close from team to team, then it actually improves the lot of low-frequency players and newcomers. The minimal players will be mixed in to balance some of the maximal players, and there will be better cross-polination, so to speak, than what we have right now, where all serious player gravitate toward the serious servers with transfers.

That sounds pretty exciting.

 

Yeah, but the one big concern still is time zones, which I think they still don't account for, so it could still mess up coverage of worlds. Hopefully it doesn't end up with any time zones that are super stacked or super empty for servers, but chances for that are probably pretty slim, so we probably will see an improvement across the board anyways.

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1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Unlike what people keep thinking, Anet cant create human players out of thin air and they probably wont fill alliances with bots so every one of them is 500 players. 

There might be 20 alliances on a single team* for we know. And them combined could be as many players as 1 alliance on another team. Anet doesnt control how many guilds there are, how many alliances they create and how big their alliances are. 30 people in an alliance is still an alliance unless Anet restrict the creation to 500 man guilds only (which is kind of redundant, lol).

*since the terms world and server is obsolete and Anet calls it "team" now, lol

I mean right. There aren't going to be 10 alliances of exactly 500 players. You would figure it would try and add up different alliances that equal 500 and if they can't find 500 that way they would assign guilds to make up the difference. Then yeah of course there could be leftovers and maybe the 11th or 12th team ends up not even having 500 alliance/guilds and does get more random and can't compete with the top alliances. Who knows. I thought I had it all figured out and you ruined it.

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