Necromancer september patch

[Axl.8924]

 

Necromancer

• Summon Blood Fiend: Reduced the blood fiend's base health from 13,306 to 9,315 in PvP only.
• Summon Shadow Fiend: Reduced the shadow fiend's base health from 10,814 to 7,571 in PvP only.
• Summon Bone Fiend: Reduced the bone fiend's base health from 7,036 to 4,926 in PvP only.
• Summon Bone Minions: Reduced the bone minions' base health from 5,149 to 3,605 in PvP only.
• Summon Flesh Golem: Reduced the flesh golem's base health from 12,706 to 8,895 in PvP only.
• Jagged Horror: Reduced base health from 8,922 to 6,246 in PvP only.
• Eternal Life: Reduced life-force threshold from 20% to 10% in PvP only.

[Dadnir.5038]

How much are you ready to bet that PvP players will say that it's not enough?

[Sigmoid.7082]

 There are only two real ways people stop complaining about something in the PvP section:

1. If the spec is nerfed to the point its not worth playing or is very weak becoming "fine"/"balanced"/"just right"/"not reasonable" etc
2. Something more OP comes along that they can complain about

 

Also any nerf that is made that doesn't achieve point 1 is considered a slap on the wrist, not a real nerf, nothing changing, etc

Edited September 22, 2021 by Sigmoid.7082

[bLind.6278]

So core terrormancer instead of minionmancer. Except MM will still be good, too, will just require marginally better pet management (which is a joke since there is no pet AI). 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

20 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

How much are you ready to bet that PvP players will say that it's not enough?

This is the 3rd time anet has nerfed minion hp in pvp. Its almost like minion hp isnt the problem, and the necro itself is the problem.

[FakeCirka.9456]

8 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

This is the 3rd time anet has nerfed minion hp in pvp. Its almost like minion hp isnt the problem, and the necro itself is the problem.

 

Maybe... Maybe its not the Necro thats the problem either... Maybe... Maybe its the player! 😮

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

1 hour ago, FakeCirka.9456 said:

 

Maybe... Maybe its not the Necro thats the problem either... Maybe... Maybe its the player! 😮

Yet for some reason MAT winners have been running 2-3 necros on their teams. And for some reason necro is one of the strongest teamfighters, side noders, and supports in the meta. And for some reason its been this way for years.

[FakeCirka.9456]

2 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Yet for some reason MAT winners have been running 2-3 necros on their teams. And for some reason necro is one of the strongest teamfighters, side noders, and supports in the meta. And for some reason its been this way for years.

 

Oh so just because some players decide to play necro and do well with it, it means they are op and thats the only reason they see play. Not because they might just be viable, right? You seem to post in the Necro thread a lot, but you don't seem to have any solid points, just "nerf em". Maybe you got some L2P issues, might be hard to accept, but if you try your best maybe you will get better and realize they are not that bad to deal with lol.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

5 hours ago, FakeCirka.9456 said:

 

Oh so just because some players decide to play necro and do well with it, it means they are op and thats the only reason they see play. Not because they might just be viable, right? You seem to post in the Necro thread a lot, but you don't seem to have any solid points, just "nerf em". Maybe you got some L2P issues, might be hard to accept, but if you try your best maybe you will get better and realize they are not that bad to deal with lol.

Ive stated solid points many times, as have other people. You are arguing that every top player and MAT winner just has l2p issues because you dont understand why necro is strong.

 

• Minion condi transfers & death magic
• Scourge support
• Shroud damage reduction
• Core necro & reaper damage
• Well of darkness, walk, wurm
• Lich form
• Blood magic
• Staff & dagger condi transfers
• Fear duration
• Boon corruption condition duration

 

Anet could address any of these things and it would be a whole lot more constructive than nerfing minion hp again. But really, anyone who says fighting necro is just a l2p issue is the kind of person who unironically says "just dodge".

•  

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

For the current meta shroud's damage reduction needs to be reduced to 33% in PvP/WvW. That would go a long way it putting Necro/Reaper in the correct balance for the meta.  Scourge? F2-F4 need 1/4s cast times. That alone would reign in Scourge.

[KrHome.1920]

53 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

For the current meta shroud's damage reduction needs to be reduced to 33% in PvP/WvW. That would go a long way it putting Necro/Reaper in the correct balance for the meta. 

WvW is a whole different story than PvP. It is full of high damage builds that can still outsustain any core necro or reaper build with ease. So if you nerf the shroud damage reduction in that game mode you have to kill at least 50% of the protection other classes generate too and also double the cooldown of skills like dolyak stance or cut its duration in half.

E.g. a soulbeast has 9s of complete cc immunity each 30 seconds in WvW.

Edited September 24, 2021 by KrHome.1920

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, KrHome.1920 said:

WvW is a whole different story than PvP. It is full of dps builds that can still outsustain any core necro or reaper build with ease. So if you nerf the shroud damage reduction in that game mode you have to kill at least 50% of the protection other classes generate too and also increase the cooldowns of skills like moa stance by at least 50% or cut the duration in half.

And yet I watch Necros eat the dps of 5 people, myself included, and I was hitting it with volley in Berserk Mode on a glass build, and then get up and continue their DPS rotation at full HP.

My suggestion on Shroud damage reduction is due to it being the main form of 'sustain' on reaper and necro, but it was not touched along with everybody else's sustain in the Feb2020 patch. This large source of damage reduction is the entirety of why core and reaper are over performing defense wise during this meta.

As to your request that OTHER classes sustain/protection get cut. Well, like I said, they were in Feb2020, Shroud and Reapers Shroud weren't however.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

13 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

And yet I watch Necros eat the dps of 5 people, myself included, and I was hitting it with volley in Berserk Mode on a glass build, and then get up and continue their DPS rotation at full HP.

Were you in Rampagers gear or something?  Because if you were actually a glass cannon power build, the only way a Necro is tanking 5 people including you is if they were built full tank and had pathetic DPS.  Necros die extremely easy to being outnumbered that badly.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Protect the AI! 

 

Jokes aside, just buff Zerker and we will make sort work of necros and their minions. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

8 hours ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Were you in Rampagers gear or something?  Because if you were actually a glass cannon power build, the only way a Necro is tanking 5 people including you is if they were built full tank and had pathetic DPS.  Necros die extremely easy to being outnumbered that badly.

Not since 2020 mate. They can get 70% damage reduction in shroud in WvW and still rock max dps gear/traits. Grant it I can't control what the WvW plebs run, but I at least was in full Marauder with dps traits.

 

If you can't tank multiple people in shroud in this meta that says more about you than Necro itself.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

If you can't tank multiple people in shroud in this meta that says more about you than Necro itself.

These nerds are just mad they cant get out of gold when tryharding on the most op class in the game.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

These nerds are just mad they cant get out of gold when tryharding on the most op class in the game.

Yeah, there is some serious deflection going in this thread.

[Klowdy.3126]

On 9/22/2021 at 4:17 PM, Sigmoid.7082 said:

 There are only two real ways people stop complaining about something in the PvP section:

1. If the spec is nerfed to the point its not worth playing or is very weak becoming "fine"/"balanced"/"just right"/"not reasonable" etc
2. Something more OP comes along that they can complain about

 

Also any nerf that is made that doesn't achieve point 1 is considered a slap on the wrist, not a real nerf, nothing changing, etc

I like the second, because it usually doesn't leave my class gutted, lol.

[mortrialus.3062]

On 9/22/2021 at 3:11 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:

How much are you ready to bet that PvP players will say that it's not enough?

Minionmancer went on to win the MAT after that patch anyway.  This is the build's second win back to back. The best players in the game have no good answer for countering Minionmancer.

 

[Dadnir.5038]

41 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Minionmancer went on to win the MAT after that patch anyway.  This is the build's second win back to back. The best players in the game have no good answer for countering Minionmancer.

It's nothing new but against minionmancers, either you ignore the minions to focus the necromancer or you carpet bomb with aoe. If reducing their health so that carpet bombing become more effective didn't do the trick then it mean that their health was never the issue (and thus that PvP players were yet again dead wrong in what they were asking).

So at this point either sPvP players will ask for more (pointless) minion nerfs or they will try to find the true reason they struggle against minionmancers. I wonder what the next target will be... Probably minion's toughness... Would be hilarious that they nerf it thought.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

It's a bit dishonnest to resume a minions master build to each minions utility skills, and forget  core necro exists too on the field with its  overall annoyance extended with minions and synergies arround. Hmm yeah "kill minions" what about the constant condi transfer, impairing conditions, then lich form, LF regen ?
I know people always have the good answer to all issues, "Just cleanse" "Just rotate" "they don't have dps"  but there were reasons we saw necros everywhere in conquest, 2v2 etc since february 2020. In ranked -solo/duo queue but also, to a lesser extent, in MAT. It's just the fact, no matter we though necro were imba or not.

 

I don't think Minions theirself, and their HP, were the issue but some death's magic trait and condition management.
Still they may have fixed MM build.  One MM went to win MAT, looks like pretty balanced now, or we also need to nerf the 9 others builds presents at the finale ?