Is it high time for Rangers to receive a support class as an e-spec for them to be valuable in WvW zerging?

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

On 10/14/2021 at 12:48 AM, nerva.7940 said:

Hey I was thinking maxing out immob duration and healing. Bringers stats mostly??

Cele is a good option right now. I like running it with Dual staff, Primal Echos, Hydromancy Sigils and Quick Draw to really max out the Ancient Seeds procs. 

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POjAYZlVw4YLMG2JWuOpt9C82A-z1IY1oi/MSUF0pUwjTTA2sA-w 

[Dadnir.5038]

Ranger is already oozing support from everywhere, what good exactly would yet another support spec do that druid and SB can't? I mean Druid can share heal and boons at will while SB can share a bit less heal but more boons and unique buffs.

Ranger's issue in WvW isn't a lack of support, it's a lack of competitivity in it's support. Let's be honest, if druid's support and SB support didn't do the trick nothing they can add to the ranger will.

The proper point to ask oneself is what does the ranger need in WvW to become competitive. And the easy answer is ranged AoE (The weapon teased being a hammer, I wouldn't get my hope high that the ranger will get anything useful for WvW zerg).

[anduriell.6280]

3 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

I think that happened to make space for Herald, since a Spirit Ranger is close to that functionality.

I share your sentiment but it is a shame Anet decided to destroy an utility and build variety from other profession to add a new one which nobody asked for. 

[anduriell.6280]

49 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Ranger is already oozing support from everywhere, what good exactly would yet another support spec do that druid and SB can't? I mean Druid can share heal and boons at will while SB can share a bit less heal but more boons and unique buffs.

Ranger's issue in WvW isn't a lack of support, it's a lack of competitivity in it's support. Let's be honest, if druid's support and SB support didn't do the trick nothing they can add to the ranger will.

The proper point to ask oneself is what does the ranger need in WvW to become competitive. And the easy answer is ranged AoE (The weapon teased being a hammer, I wouldn't get my hope high that the ranger will get anything useful for WvW zerg).

You are correct that is a very good question to ask. 

I would expand your answer (because ranged needs that ranged AoE from Thowable traps returned in some form) with ranger also needs the support capabilities returned. 

AoE damage alone would not cut it as it would need to compete with herald and necro spots. 

 

So this new elite needs also to bring propper group support with unique buffs. 

 

Another topic is why Soulbeast and Druid aren't working in WvW and simply is because Anet weird and unwelcomed decissions and limitations about those mechanics.
The EoD elites gotten the ranger treatment about weird limitations, the general consensus is nobody like it. 

[subversiontwo.7501]

2 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Another topic is why Soulbeast and Druid aren't working in WvW and simply is because Anet weird and unwelcomed decissions and limitations about those mechanics.

The EoD elites gotten the ranger treatment about weird limitations, the general consensus is nobody like it. 

That is in part (pre-nerfed) mechanical quirks, which are really easy to fix, on Anet's side and in part solo-into-collective trends on the playerbase's side. The latter will hopefully be helped in indrect ways by Alliances (fewer tired, disgruntled and stale communities just pointing play-alone-together types of players to meta-sites). The former does not have to reinvent the wheel, like Dadnir said.

If they wanted to enhance what Druid and Soulbeast do all they would have to do is improve the application (radius) and uptime on the Druid skills. Celestial could bleed slower (it bleeds far quicker than comparable mechanics, like shrouds), Celestial 1 could be wider and Staff 1 could be wider (or use staff 4, CoR, etc., types of mechanics). That would be enough to enhance what it already does and improve it's overall use.

For Soulbeast they could easily make sure that stance sharing is not double-nerfed, because now it shares at 50% of 50% since it shares half of the base value when you trait it, not half the final value.

Now, do not mistake that with Druid and Soulbeast becomming comparable to Scrapper and Firebrand in terms of raw sustained healing and stability output. However, it is a different class and it does not have to do exactly what those other classes do to be useful. If you want to play Scrapper, play Scrapper. If you want to play Firebrand, play Firebrand. This game is built to progress horizontally. People who play one class and envy what other classes can do are playing the game wrong. However, making the Ranger play better as a Ranger is definetly a fair argument. It may not "need" it, but it could certainly "use" it and would likely "feel" better.

Edited October 20, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[mistsim.2748]

4 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Cele is a good option right now. I like running it with Dual staff, Primal Echos, Hydromancy Sigils and Quick Draw to really max out the Ancient Seeds procs. 

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POjAYZlVw4YLMG2JWuOpt9C82A-z1IY1oi/MSUF0pUwjTTA2sA-w 

I went full Bringer's and I'm getting a 4s immob on Staff 4 which is insane. As long as I get support boons in the zerg, survivability is ok. Instead of healing power, you go for +80% healing output to allies. 

The ancient seeds build in zerg play is relatively ineffective. You can output 4s + 3s + 4s of aoe immobs so you really don't need the roots. Channeling Barrage with the LB can also get you killed. Without Glyph of Stars and some additional burst healing, this thing isn't worth taking into a serious comp. The main downside of the build is having absolutely no access to stab, so if you're chain CC'd, it's certain death.

He's a bit dodgy about specifics, although I don't feel the build is at all OP, but he's running something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAYZlVwWYMMOWJOaLXt1RcF-zVIYdUxXGVXBhkC+uK+F-w

Edited October 20, 2021 by mistsim.2748

[mistsim.2748]

4 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Ranger is already oozing support from everywhere, what good exactly would yet another support spec do that druid and SB can't? I mean Druid can share heal and boons at will while SB can share a bit less heal but more boons and unique buffs.

Ranger's issue in WvW isn't a lack of support, it's a lack of competitivity in it's support. Let's be honest, if druid's support and SB support didn't do the trick nothing they can add to the ranger will.

The proper point to ask oneself is what does the ranger need in WvW to become competitive. And the easy answer is ranged AoE (The weapon teased being a hammer, I wouldn't get my hope high that the ranger will get anything useful for WvW zerg).

I think the community has failed to make Druid work as a support, but that's not an issue of the profession. Druid does more burst cleansing and burst healing than Scrappers, in addition to providing huge immobilizes, and aoe rezzing with Glyph of Stars. A guy posted this in action, and I just put up the build above.

I think the Untamed looks great for zerging, but we'll see for sure on Friday.

Edited October 20, 2021 by mistsim.2748

[Dadnir.5038]

1 minute ago, mistsim.2748 said:

I think the community has failed to make Druid work as a support, but that's not an issue of the profession. Druid does more burst cleansing and burst healing than Scrappers, in addition to providing huge immobilizes, and aoe rezzing with Glyph of Stars. A guy posted this in action, and I just put up the build above.

It's not that the community failed, it's that the community look for the optimale choice and druid isn't. The druid have interesting features but in the end he is nothing more than a glorified ventari revenant when in avatar mode. The dynamic of the avatar being as cluncky and void of damage than ventari's tablet gameplay, nobody in it's right mind use it in a fast paced mode where you actually need to move like WvW.

[mistsim.2748]

1 minute ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

It's not that the community failed, it's that the community look for the optimale choice and druid isn't. The druid have interesting features but in the end he is nothing more than a glorified ventari revenant when in avatar mode. The dynamic of the avatar being as cluncky and void of damage than ventari's tablet gameplay, nobody in it's right mind use it in a fast paced mode where you actually need to move like WvW.

Oh it's pretty optimal. As I said, you can play it alongside a Scrapper in 1 or 2 groups. The immobilize bombs, burst healing, and Glyph of Stars is enough reason to bring a few of these along. 

[RisenHowl.2419]

10 hours ago, mistsim.2748 said:

Oh it's pretty optimal. As I said, you can play it alongside a Scrapper in 1 or 2 groups. The immobilize bombs, burst healing, and Glyph of Stars is enough reason to bring a few of these along. 

there's 2 viable ways to build a druid imo, one's more valuable <30v30 while the other is stronger in >30v30

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

12 hours ago, mistsim.2748 said:

I went full Bringer's and I'm getting a 4s immob on Staff 4 which is insane. As long as I get support boons in the zerg, survivability is ok. Instead of healing power, you go for +80% healing output to allies. 

The ancient seeds build in zerg play is relatively ineffective. You can output 4s + 3s + 4s of aoe immobs so you really don't need the roots. Channeling Barrage with the LB can also get you killed. Without Glyph of Stars and some additional burst healing, this thing isn't worth taking into a serious comp. The main downside of the build is having absolutely no access to stab, so if you're chain CC'd, it's certain death.

He's a bit dodgy about specifics, although I don't feel the build is at all OP, but he's running something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAYZlVwWYMMOWJOaLXt1RcF-zVIYdUxXGVXBhkC+uK+F-w

Just a note here, you need about 800-900 Healing Power for %healing bonuses to begin outstripping it. As a general rule if you're not around 1k HLP there's no point.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[nerva.7940]

13 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Just a note here, you need about 800-900 Healing Power for %healing bonuses to begin outstripping it. As a general rule if you're not around 1k HLP there's no point.

True, just saying it's % healing is really good for very little investment. I wouldn't make a "healing druid" with HP, because expertise seems to synergize a lot better with the kit.

[mistsim.2748]

Ok are we happy then? Aoe boon rips, dazes, stuns, immobs, blinks, a self heal on damage without and ICD, and what looks to be some very solid damage coefficients. The hammer skill animations are very crisp and fast. Pets won't be available on every push (because the one that's out will die), but we can swap to the second one to use the 3 skills.

Edited October 22, 2021 by mistsim.2748

[Banto.8761]

Anet would have done far better if they simply copied the WoW Resto Druid. Would've been more viable than this druid spec.

The real purpose of druids in WvW is to spam immob until hell freezes *sigh* A rootbot wow anet...