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@TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:Wait. The balance would be just for PvP? Because I have 0 cares on the competitive part of this game.

Same. I imagine that's where a lot of this rage is coming from. Really wish it would stay in the PvP section because this part of the forums has enough of its own bitterness to contend with. :x

Like asuras getting very little attention?

Oh please.

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There are several things I am not really ok with regarding balance. The major offenders are pobably the hit hard and run like the wind warrior and the stealthy Sniper thief. Who is the designer of such abdominations, John Wick? I am a fan of you have to lose something to get something philosophy regarding balance, nobody who is looking for exciting fights likes a egg-laying woolmilksow so to say, but both concepts are already broken for years and in the case of the thief, have been intensified massively.

I am surely not a specialist at balancing and surely could not do better, but how does it come that these things are not tested and either nerfed or tied to consequences?

The idea to activelly ask top tier players for their input regarding balance is a bad idea, one person on the old forum had a very fitting signature for this.It would probably be like this:

Dear Anet,

Rock is fine, but please nerf scissor.

SignedPaper

Collect passive data from the top tier guys is a good idea though.

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@Einlanzer.1627 said:[...] we're now hitting critical mass for players getting rightfully pissed about getting a bi-weekly-in-quality-but-once-every-3-months balance patch that is largely untested and never re-tuned after rollout that rarely even attempts to address big picture balance problems [...]

This. It's spot on.

The problem with patches in GW2 is not the time between patches. It's the fact that you wait months for balance on something that should have been patched ASAP (as in, like 1-3 days after the initial release of the bug). Big balance patches are maybe once or twice a year.

It's the same with the "stress tests" they were running before PoF. The EU stress test was in the middle of the night on a weekday, so basically it was a nice beta for the people that didn't have to get up early the next morning. Then PoF hit, and everything went to shit. No connection throughout Friday, Saturday and Sunday for most people. Either people crashed out of the starter instance constantly or they couldn't even load Lion's Arch. After that entire maps didn't load. Constant game crashes.

They said on Friday they were fixing it. It worked somewhat Saturday in the early morning (like 2-6 AM), nothing worked again by 9 AM and literally 10 hours later it was announced that it was a problem during "peak hours".

I love this game. I want to share my love. I wanna tell people how awesome GW2 is. Stuff like this makes it really hard, tho.

So, my question is still if Anet has a serious problem with resources for GW2 or if it's just that nobody cares.

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@"Gaile Gray.6029" , Can you please consider the idea of having an elected volunteer from each of the professions subforum that once a month collects complaints, bugs and suggestions for skills and word it as usable data and free from emotion and have them email it directly to the devs (new email or whatever to limit abuse).

Have the devs give a small summary/review back to the volunteer that they can pass it on to the community for them to view and debate. A simple, "We're working on this", "This wont work because of.." and "This is a good idea, we'll try this".

This way we get a once a month update on what may be getting worked on, we'll know exactly what the devs have viewed (they can't read every post here) and they're free from any possible anger and abuse hurled at them from certain people.

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@psizone.8437 said:@"Gaile Gray.6029" , Can you please consider the idea of having an elected volunteer from each of the professions subforum that once a month collects complaints, bugs and suggestions for skills and word it as usable data and free from emotion and have them email it directly to the devs (new email or whatever to limit abuse).

Have the devs give a small summary/review back to the volunteer that they can pass it on to the community for them to view and debate. A simple, "We're working on this", "This wont work because of.." and "This is a good idea, we'll try this".

This way we get a once a month update on what may be getting worked on, we'll know exactly what the devs have viewed (they can't read every post here) and they're free from any possible anger and abuse hurled at them from certain people.

This is quite an excellent idea as it would really clean up and speed up the process, making things exponentially better.

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@Razor.6392 said:Here's hoping damage is toned down.

9+ burn stacks in 0.5 seconds from firebrand15+ confusion stacks in 0.5 seconds from mirageFull bar of conditions ft. 4 burning and 12 torment from scourge10-20k damage death judgmentHolosmith requiring every single photon forge minimal cooldown abilities to be dodged or lose upwards of 4-6k health in 1 hit.Spellbreaker being immortal, and by far the most forgiving, autopilot, easy mode spec / class ever released in the history of gw2

Weaver, Renegade and Soulbeast hold onto their buffs until these are toned down first.

You do realize holosmith gets hurt by staying in it too long? Also, holosmith is probably the most balanced PoF spec released. Also, you only need to dodge one , the knockdown ... You can out-position every other one of them. You also have stability for that, blinds, blocks and positioning and you can also wait out Photon in stealth or any number of other abilities because, again, they can only stay in it for so long before they over-heat.

But of course, why would you want me to give you counter play advice? It's clear from your post and the tone of the remarks on the subject that you don't really want to think about counter playing, you just want it nerfed into the ground to make it easier for you. Essentially the major problem with the PvP community in this game.

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@Ealandur.1876 said:

@psizone.8437 said:@"Gaile Gray.6029" , Can you please consider the idea of having an elected volunteer from each of the professions subforum that once a month collects complaints, bugs and suggestions for skills and word it as usable data and free from emotion and have them email it directly to the devs (new email or whatever to limit abuse).

Have the devs give a small summary/review back to the volunteer that they can pass it on to the community for them to view and debate. A simple, "We're working on this", "This wont work because of.." and "This is a good idea, we'll try this".

This way we get a once a month update on what may be getting worked on, we'll know exactly what the devs have viewed (they can't read every post here) and they're free from any possible anger and abuse hurled at them from certain people.

This is quite an excellent idea as it would really clean up and speed up the process, making things exponentially better.

Who decides who becomes these volunteers though? The people who are most knowledgeable about a class might not want to do it, or may not be too "friendly/kind" and might lose what is, essentially, a popularity contest.

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@OriOri.8724 said:Who decides who becomes these volunteers though? The people who are most knowledgeable about a class might not want to do it, or may not be too "friendly/kind" and might lose what is, essentially, a popularity contest.

They could make a post on each subforum asking for volunteers and make a poll of the viable volunteers (non-trolls) for players to decide who they'd like to do it. It may end up as a popularity thing but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who does it as long as they're doing it right.

Essentially we'd be looking for someone that does it without abusing the power so we'd have them post what they're sending and what they received back and if they're abusing the power/doing a very bad job we'd ask Gaile to set up a new vote for a replacement volunteer.

Worth noting that we don't need someone overly knowledgeable of the class. We need them to collect information from players in the forum and compile it, not for them to talk 1 on 1 with the devs and input their own opinions and no-one else's.

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@Falseprophet.1502 said:~~I would gladly trade a well polished patch that is delayed rather than a mess of bugs and ill-thought out changes for these 'community' outcries about poor balancing from backseat pseudo-game developers (aka forum troglodytes). ~~Blah, nevermind, you all will complain regardless. Looking forward to reading all the teary-eyed posts about how bad the balance team is next week, boys!

Im sure a lot would too, but d'you honestly think that's what we'll get next week. > @psizone.8437 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:Who decides who becomes these volunteers though? The people who are most knowledgeable about a class might not want to do it, or may not be too "friendly/kind" and might lose what is, essentially, a popularity contest.

They could make a post on each subforum asking for volunteers and make a poll of the viable volunteers (non-trolls) for players to decide who they'd like to do it. It may end up as a popularity thing but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who does it as long as they're doing it right.

Essentially we'd be looking for someone that does it without abusing the power so we'd have them post what they're sending and what they received back and if they're abusing the power/doing a very bad job we'd ask Gaile to set up a new vote for a replacement volunteer.

Worth noting that we don't need someone overly knowledgeable of the class. We need them to collect information from players in the forum and compile it, not for them to talk 1 on 1 with the devs and input their own opinions and no-one else's.

Theres a difference between delegation/giving the playerbase more tools AND making someone a goffer/lackey.

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@troops.8276 said:Theres a difference between delegation/giving the playerbase more tools AND making someone a goffer/lackey.

If having a lackey gives us a method of getting information directly to the devs and finding out what they're working on, we need a lackey.

This wouldn't be a problem if the devs could post to the forums regularly and talk to the player base, but they don't so this idea is the next best thing.

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@psizone.8437 said:

@troops.8276 said:Theres a difference between delegation/giving the playerbase more tools AND making someone a goffer/lackey.

If having a lackey gives us a method of getting information directly to the devs and finding out what they're working on, we need a lackey.

This wouldn't be a problem if the devs could post to the forums regularly and talk to the player base, but they don't so this idea is the next best thing.

Ocht, I know. It would take a fair bit of setting up and moderation in itself though. It'd be a time consuming, and possibly depressing, job you're not paid for and would probably all be in vain anyway. Sorry I know you're only trying to help.

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@troops.8276 said:

Ocht, I know. It would take a fair bit of setting up and moderation in itself though. It'd be a time consuming, and possibly depressing, job you're not paid for and would probably all be in vain anyway. Sorry I know you're only trying to help.

No harm no foul, problems can occur if people don't question ideas!

You're right, it'd be a thankless and time consuming job but I think we have enough truly dedicated players that have the time and drive to volunteer for something like this and we can always swap them out if it gets too much.

Set up would be a bit of a pain but the ball would be on Anets court for most of it.

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@psizone.8437 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:Who decides who becomes these volunteers though? The people who are most knowledgeable about a class might not want to do it, or may not be too "friendly/kind" and might lose what is, essentially, a popularity contest.

They could make a post on each subforum asking for volunteers and make a poll of the viable volunteers (non-trolls) for players to decide who they'd like to do it. It may end up as a popularity thing but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who does it as long as they're doing it right.

Essentially we'd be looking for someone that does it without abusing the power so we'd have them post what they're sending and what they received back and if they're abusing the power/doing a very bad job we'd ask Gaile to set up a new vote for a replacement volunteer.

Worth noting that we don't need someone overly knowledgeable of the class. We need them to collect information from players in the forum and compile it, not for them to talk 1 on 1 with the devs and input their own opinions and no-one else's.

Star Wars: The Old Republic did a system exactly like this back in 2013-2014. Nothing good came out of it, except for lots of memes. Essentially the volunteers all just asked for populist stuff that could be boiled down to "make us OP" and the devs where like "lolno" and it never really got any better.

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@Crinn.7864 said:Star Wars: The Old Republic did a system exactly like this back in 2013-2014. Nothing good came out of it, except for lots of memes. Essentially the volunteers all just asked for populist stuff that could be boiled down to "make us OP" and the devs where like "lolno" and it never really got any better.

Yeah it'd take a lot of player base maturity and for the volunteer to make reports only on important issues and suggestions.

Considering how many well thought out and non-trolling posts are in the profession forums right now I think it's at least worth a shot.

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@psizone.8437 said:Worth noting that we don't need someone overly knowledgeable of the class. We need them to collect information from players in the forum and compile it, not for them to talk 1 on 1 with the devs and input their own opinions and no-one else's.

I disagree. They would have to have a fairly large knowledge base for that class, in multiple game modes, to sort out the absolutely ridiculous comments from the reasonable ones. Someone without a high knowledge of the class could be influenced to believe that some stuff that is fine needs to be buffed in some obscure way that interacts very well with certain builds, and would be overpowered. Or the opposite. Something could be slightly overperforming, and they could be convinced either that its fine, that it needs to be nerfed so hard its never even looked at again, or that something else needs to be nerfed instead.

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@OriOri.8724 said:

I disagree. They would have to have a fairly large knowledge base for that class, in multiple game modes, to sort out the absolutely ridiculous comments from the reasonable ones. Someone without a high knowledge of the class could be influenced to believe that some stuff that is fine needs to be buffed in some obscure way that interacts very well with certain builds, and would be overpowered. Or the opposite. Something could be slightly overperforming, and they could be convinced either that its fine, that it needs to be nerfed so hard its never even looked at again, or that something else needs to be nerfed instead.

They need a fair knowledge of the class but they don't need to know the ins and outs of every skill combo, they'll be able to weed out the bad suggestions by viewing the overall feedback from other players. The volunteer would be helped by the player base (hopefully).

The volunteer gathers suggestions, they wouldn't be in charge of deciding if something might poorly effect something else. The devs would do the intricate work and decide if the suggestions have merit or not.

The system would be used primarily as a way of directly seeing if the suggestions and bugs are being viewed and worked on(or not) by the devs and to give players updates on how the class balance is progressing.

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@psizone.8437 said:@"Gaile Gray.6029" , Can you please consider the idea of having an elected volunteer from each of the professions subforum that once a month collects complaints, bugs and suggestions for skills and word it as usable data and free from emotion and have them email it directly to the devs (new email or whatever to limit abuse).

Have the devs give a small summary/review back to the volunteer that they can pass it on to the community for them to view and debate. A simple, "We're working on this", "This wont work because of.." and "This is a good idea, we'll try this".

This way we get a once a month update on what may be getting worked on, we'll know exactly what the devs have viewed (they can't read every post here) and they're free from any possible anger and abuse hurled at them from certain people.

@psizone.8437 said:@"Gaile Gray.6029" , Can you please consider the idea of having an elected volunteer from each of the professions subforum that once a month collects complaints, bugs and suggestions for skills and word it as usable data and free from emotion and have them email it directly to the devs (new email or whatever to limit abuse).

Have the devs give a small summary/review back to the volunteer that they can pass it on to the community for them to view and debate. A simple, "We're working on this", "This wont work because of.." and "This is a good idea, we'll try this".

This way we get a once a month update on what may be getting worked on, we'll know exactly what the devs have viewed (they can't read every post here) and they're free from any possible anger and abuse hurled at them from certain people.

They tired that once when I think Colin was around? Didn’t really go anywhere or do anything with it.

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@Falseprophet.1502 said:~~I would gladly trade a well polished patch that is delayed rather than a mess of bugs and ill-thought out changes for these 'community' outcries about poor balancing from backseat pseudo-game developers (aka forum troglodytes). ~~Blah, nevermind, you all will complain regardless. Looking forward to reading all the teary-eyed posts about how bad the balance team is next week, boys!

Can you really say balance patches in this game are well polished and changes arent ill thought out? Id say at best 50% of the balancing is done ok due to the fact class damage has such a huuuge discrepancy in both pvp and pve, some classes are just useless atm (necro) and rev is still unfinished 2 YEARS after its release.

Also most complaints arent about the delay, they are about the frequency of patches, scale of changes, and decision to release a balance patch on the day of the new season. We would all be fine with a delay if it resulted in an actual decent state of balance.

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@Gaile Gray.6029 said:A message from the Balance Team:

There seems to be some incorrect information and/or unfounded expectations surrounding the next balance update, so we’d like to shed a light on our plans:

The next balance update will not take place this week; it is scheduled to come out next week, on November 7. The release date still could change due to unforeseen circumstances or shenanigans beyond our control, but that is our plan right now.

Yay :D I get to enjoy my Mirage a little longer! Good luck finishing the patch.

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@Jinroh.4251 said:

@troops.8276 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:Everyone who is upset with the wait..Do you want a half-baked pie, or a properly baked pie?

That is not it at all. You miss the point completely.

Of course they missed the point. Clearly the balance don't affect them so they're just posters who like to ride on a high horse, acting smug to others. Much like crazy fan boys who feel their game can do no wrong.

Point being, clearly anet does not have the time or resources to do it faster, otherwise I'm pretty sure they would've done it faster.All I'm saying is, if it can't go any faster, pushing a product to cater impatient people will just release a faulty or unfinished balance patch that will not aggravate more people. If anet needs 4 months to bake a cake, let them have those four months. Raw dough may very well hurt your tummy

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@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Jinroh.4251 said:

@troops.8276 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:Everyone who is upset with the wait..Do you want a half-baked pie, or a properly baked pie?

That is not it at all. You miss the point completely.

Of course they missed the point. Clearly the balance don't affect them so they're just posters who like to ride on a high horse, acting smug to others. Much like crazy fan boys who feel their game can do no wrong.

Point being, clearly anet does not have the time or resources to do it faster, otherwise I'm pretty sure they would've done it faster.All I'm saying is, if it can't go any faster, pushing a product to cater impatient people will just release a faulty or unfinished balance patch that will not aggravate more people. If anet needs 4 months to bake a cake, let them have those four months. Raw dough may very well hurt your tummy

Hmm, that's made me wonder about my own view. How would it have gone down if season 9 had been delayed to let ppl get used to changes and look for bugs? Would there have been more or less QQ? Would I, myself, have complained as I did? :/

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