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@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:I can wait. Already know the balancing won't help a core necro minion person like me and I have no other problem with my other classes.

What do you need to be balanced on your necro MM.. find spot, spawn minions, set aoe macro and then go afk for 3 months with occasional revisit to press I and deposit all... no balance required or maybe you mean balancing out map locations where above can be utilised more widely :p

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@Ayakaru.6583 said:Point being, clearly anet does not have the time or resources to do it faster, otherwise I'm pretty sure they would've done it faster.All I'm saying is, if it can't go any faster, pushing a product to cater impatient people will just release a faulty or unfinished balance patch that will not aggravate more people. If anet needs 4 months to bake a cake, let them have those four months. Raw dough may very well hurt your tummy

I have found in my own experience that open communication breeds greater understanding. This suggests that the part of the community that stays informed and abreast of upcoming changes acts as a mouth piece for Anet to the rest of the community, and without greater communication you create a situation where unfounded rumor is more likely to become the expectations of the community and leads to frustration, disappointment, dissatisfaction with the game, and anger.

Despite apparent desires to bring wholesale balance adjustments more frequently, Anet has shown time and again they are unable to do so. As players, the reasons are less important than the fact. Greater communication would go a long way to ease transition periods by giving players a roadmap, directing their expectations, giving them something to focus on, and reigning in hope.

"We don't talk about it until it is ready to ship" is a great policy for most of the game, creating a kind of 'Christmas when you are a kid' feeling with surprise and elatement when changes do come. This works well for new releases, but less so things like balance. Not communicating regarding these aspects of the game leads to a disgruntled populace that could be better made into allies.

Look to the sPvP devs for a great example. When they do talk they do a great job of stating things on their radar, things they hope to address soon, and setting expectations. They also balance well providing specifics and staying vague when and where appropriate. More of this could go a long way to help ease the frustrations we see in this thread rather than create this weird sense of disregard and disrespect many players seem to feel.

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@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

@"Super Hayes.6890" said:Sounds like it's time to hand out job apps Gaile. Seems like we have a lot of people here that can run a company better than your peeps... They do this in my restaurant too lol. Seriously, thanks for the announcement. I trust this company and will continue to spend money on your product. I don't need you to run all of your changes by me :)Once the balance update roles on the 7th I'll be happy to post my feedback if I feel the need.

P.S. I love that you use the word "shenanigans." It is sooo under-utilized.

Nice ad hominous.

Nobody here ever even remotely implied they could do better or close. What people are complaining about is that they ARE professionals who CAN do better than us, but somehow delivering unprofession results and choosing to do so.

If someone at your restaurant says "hey my steak is overcooked" that didnt mean they know HOW to cook a steak and think they can do better. But because they eat steak on the regular and can tell your cook kitten it.

Thanks for the comment. It's refreshing to have someone disagree with me in a way that is constructive. You deliver an excellent point. I am just concerned that the overall tone of this thread is too negative and doesn't really respond to the issue in a reasonable way. My opinion is that as a community we could approach issues in a more professional tone. On the topic at hand, I personally don't see the need for extra info about balances but I also don't have much time in a day to game so I avoid researching it too much in the first place.

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@Orpheal.8263 said:As if Anet would ever dare to touch anything that is "core" in this game, lol, they havent done this for a single time in 5 years ...

Core skills in general have pretty long recharges... and something like timewarp can be compared to the chronos well which isnt an elite and is almost the same thing with like 1/3 the recharge. They nerfed quickness and didnt touch things like timewarp and frenzys recharges... Now we got firebrand who can do so much quickness those other skills with quickness are just kinda lol.

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Why is imbalance such an issue? Just play and have fun, it's really not a big deal. If your beloved class sucks atm just play what is good atm. Man, chill or go play other games for a couple of weeks...

It IS an issue because for every class existing, I should be able to play efficiently that class in every part of the game, without being forced to change class.

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@DanScott.4839 said:

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Why is imbalance such an issue? Just play and have fun, it's really not a big deal. If your beloved class sucks atm just play what is good atm. Man, chill or go play other games for a couple of weeks...

thisssssssss omg

Absolutely. If the class you enjoy playing, "sucks," one should avoid asking for some balance and instead cease spending money and time on this game. Instead one should switch to a competitor and spend one's time and money there.

Balance passes, by this logic, are completely unnecessary and the team so dedicated should be let go.

Bug fixes should similarly be stopped as, if one's enjoyment of the game is negatively impacted by bugs one can just go elsewhere. Fire the QA and bug fix teams too.

Oh, and might as well let the content developers go as well. Players who want new content can just go play, and spend money on, other games, right?

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Why is imbalance such an issue? Just play and have fun, it's really not a big deal. If your beloved class sucks atm just play what is good atm. Man, chill or go play other games for a couple of weeks...

Well, I wouldn't even mind that much, if it was really easy to properly switch classes: For example: I have full ascended berserker armor, weapons and trinkets including all +9 agony, +5 power infusions, full scholar runes and sigils of Force + Air on my Ele. If I want to switch to Guardian now, it should be possible without (too much) costs and with a few simple clicks (TEMPLATES) to load that all on my Guardian ... If that's the case, I would probably even agree with your statement ... Under 1 condition though: let them fix my main beloved class as soon as possible, and not maybe every 3 months a balance patch that might or might not change anything for my beloved class.Frequent balancing updates and easy way to properly switch classes would fix a lot, imo!

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Why is imbalance such an issue? Just play and have fun, it's really not a big deal. If your beloved class sucks atm just play what is good atm. Man, chill or go play other games for a couple of weeks...

But I like "this class", why do I have to go play "that class" instead?Why can't the devs make adjustments to "this class" to be as good as "that class"?"Go play another game." - lol is that really the best advice to give a customer? ever?

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@XenesisII.1540 said:

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Why is imbalance such an issue? Just play and have fun, it's really not a big deal. If your beloved class sucks atm just play what is good atm. Man, chill or go play other games for a couple of weeks...

But I like "this class", why do I have to go play "that class" instead?Why can't the devs make adjustments to "this class" to be as good as "that class"?"Go play another game." - lol is that really the best advice to give a customer? ever?

One of my great issues with this otherwise awesome game is how destructive the balance passes seem to be. I have several classes that are basically shelved (I play power warrior and power reaper for example) and its often the case that changes make something I enjoy unplayable. I think most of us have moved to a stage of playing several classes so that they can move between them during such destructive changes.

Of course that doesn't really compensate for class neglect - in the case of power reaper, I very much doubt the dev team even remembers it exists.

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After reading this, I just have to sum this up with no particular emphasis.

Disclaimer: I assume this post makes it to the balance team, "I love your game, but I don't care about your feelings. Listen up."

The overwhelming majority of people posting here are unhappy with three things.

-the timing of the new pvp season, and the balance patch.

-the frequency of the balance patches. (possibly due to allocation of funding inside arenanet, or some other unforseen explanation.)

-the lack of communication from the balance team.

What this means. Changing the behavior that lead to these complaints will feel like eating crow and admitting fault. Sorry... But you're going to have to suck up that part and trust that our gratitude at the fact of the change will outweigh people upset with you guys.

A developer live stream after each more frequent patch will result in more hype. Which means more returning players. Which means more gem store purchases, because returning players don't want to grind.

More frequent patches will prevent the toxicity of the pvp community from clumping at the top or bottom. Pvp is toxic. Welcome to a game mode where there's always a looser. Hence always salt. Hence always toxic. So frequently patch it... In order to constantly keep the toxicity from settling. (you already split pvp and pve traits... Embrace this and patch pvp more frequently)

Just saying. I mean.... What the community wants is clear. The fact that we don't get it... Makes us wonder why you aren't listening. The fact that you aren't listening makes us wonder if you care. The face that we don't know if you care makes us resent you.

How do you fix a relationship where resentment has taken root? Begin a new, as though from the beginning.

So Anet, any takers?

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Chaotic.9742 said:Glad there’s Destiny to play in the meantime...

I'm glad there is Smite, Eve Online, and ESO to play in the meantime. Made some amazing progress on my ESO account.

Warframe, Dota 2, B&S, SWTOR, LOL, Paragon-Epic Games......

FFXIV is one of the main game many of us former gw2 players are playing: always welcome to join :)Friendly and healthy community and environment: you will not be disappointed.

alas,

Competitive games the way to go
^*^

I love! FF XIV, i just wish the combat wasnt so slow :( Everything is great from what i used to play it was just the slow combat system that put me off :(

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@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Chaotic.9742 said:Glad there’s Destiny to play in the meantime...

I'm glad there is Smite, Eve Online, and ESO to play in the meantime. Made some amazing progress on my ESO account.

Warframe, Dota 2, B&S, SWTOR, LOL, Paragon-Epic Games......

FFXIV is one of the main game many of us former gw2 players are playing: always welcome to join :)Friendly and healthy community and environment: you will not be disappointed.

alas,

Competitive games the way to go
^*^

I love! FF XIV, i just wish the combat wasnt so slow :( Everything is great from what i used to play it was just the slow combat system that put me off :(

Not sure it is the right forum to talk about this, but i agree. Loved FFXIV but the slow combat bored me to tears. I had heard that it was because of the PS3, but they don't even have that excuse anymore. Is it because of console players? I played FFXIV in all platforms and i would be fine with it beeing faster in the console. You get used to it once you memorise where you mapped your skills. They are literally capping their game's appeal by sticking to it. Wasterful.If i'm gonna play that type of games i prefer SWTOR or WoW.

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@Nemmar.8491 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Chaotic.9742 said:Glad there’s Destiny to play in the meantime...

I'm glad there is Smite, Eve Online, and ESO to play in the meantime. Made some amazing progress on my ESO account.

Warframe, Dota 2, B&S, SWTOR, LOL, Paragon-Epic Games......

FFXIV is one of the main game many of us former gw2 players are playing: always welcome to join :)Friendly and healthy community and environment: you will not be disappointed.

alas,

Competitive games the way to go
^*^

I love! FF XIV, i just wish the combat wasnt so slow :( Everything is great from what i used to play it was just the slow combat system that put me off :(

Not sure it is the right forum to talk about this, but i agree. Loved FFXIV but the slow combat bored me to tears. I had heard that it was because of the PS3, but they don't even have that excuse anymore. Is it because of console players? I played FFXIV in all platforms and i would be fine with it beeing faster in the console. You get used to it once you memorise where you mapped your skills. They are literally capping their game's appeal by sticking to it. Wasterful.If i'm gonna play that type of games i prefer SWTOR or WoW.

Nah, i think they went with that due to combat in Final Fantasy games of the past./ Turn based, slow and such more than the current more action based combat systems have gone with, which is a real shame as the world, story, classes and everything is REALLY cool. If it wasnt for 2 things: Pay Monthly and Combat being too slow then it would be great, its got some really cool animations for skills but its just all too slow :( I'd happily pay monthly if the combat system was more like GW2 (minus the dreadful balance...)

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@BrokenGlass.9356 said:After reading this, I just have to sum this up with no particular emphasis.

Disclaimer: I assume this post makes it to the balance team, "I love your game, but I don't care about your feelings. Listen up."

The overwhelming majority of people posting here are unhappy with three things.

-the timing of the new pvp season, and the balance patch.

-the frequency of the balance patches. (possibly due to allocation of funding inside arenanet, or some other unforseen explanation.)

-the lack of communication from the balance team.

What this means. Changing the behavior that lead to these complaints will feel like eating crow and admitting fault. Sorry... But you're going to have to suck up that part and trust that our gratitude at the fact of the change will outweigh people upset with you guys.

A developer live stream after each more frequent patch will result in more hype. Which means more returning players. Which means more gem store purchases, because returning players don't want to grind.

More frequent patches will prevent the toxicity of the pvp community from clumping at the top or bottom. Pvp is toxic. Welcome to a game mode where there's always a looser. Hence always salt. Hence always toxic. So frequently patch it... In order to constantly keep the toxicity from settling. (you already split pvp and pve traits... Embrace this and patch pvp more frequently)

Just saying. I mean.... What the community wants is clear. The fact that we don't get it... Makes us wonder why you aren't listening. The fact that you aren't listening makes us wonder if you care. The face that we don't know if you care makes us resent you.

How do you fix a relationship where resentment has taken root? Begin a new, as though from the beginning.

So Anet, any takers?

Great post.

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@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:I can wait. Already know the balancing won't help a core necro minion person like me and I have no other problem with my other classes.

What do you need to be balanced on your necro MM.. find spot, spawn minions, set aoe macro and then go afk for 3 months with occasional revisit to press I and deposit all... no balance required or maybe you mean balancing out map locations where above can be utilised more widely :p

Buff minions and buff staff. Lower cooldown on the dredge seeing it's in the elite slot and just going in water kills it.

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@NotASmurf.1725 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:The top players on the PvP leaderboards at the end of every season should be consulted about balance changes.

Only if they ban the wintraders and ask the real top players. Right now more than 50% of the EU top 25 are wintraders.

And it's actually worse over here on the NA boards.

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@TheLastNobody.8319 said:

@psizone.8437 said:@"Gaile Gray.6029" , Can you please consider the idea of having an elected volunteer from each of the professions subforum that once a month collects complaints, bugs and suggestions for skills and word it as usable data and free from emotion and have them email it directly to the devs (new email or whatever to limit abuse).

Have the devs give a small summary/review back to the volunteer that they can pass it on to the community for them to view and debate. A simple, "We're working on this", "This wont work because of.." and "This is a good idea, we'll try this".

This way we get a once a month update on what may be getting worked on, we'll know exactly what the devs have viewed (they can't read every post here) and they're free from any possible anger and abuse hurled at them from certain people.

@psizone.8437 said:@"Gaile Gray.6029" , Can you please consider the idea of having an elected volunteer from each of the professions subforum that once a month collects complaints, bugs and suggestions for skills and word it as usable data and free from emotion and have them email it directly to the devs (new email or whatever to limit abuse).

Have the devs give a small summary/review back to the volunteer that they can pass it on to the community for them to view and debate. A simple, "We're working on this", "This wont work because of.." and "This is a good idea, we'll try this".

This way we get a once a month update on what may be getting worked on, we'll know exactly what the devs have viewed (they can't read every post here) and they're free from any possible anger and abuse hurled at them from certain people.

They tired that once when I think Colin was around? Didn’t really go anywhere or do anything with it.

Volunteers would be a bad idea. The bdo-forum has such, LoL has some, they´re always blamed by the community for everything that goes wrong yet they always say that they´re volunteers not developers. I can imagine the same would happen here as well.

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@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:Buff minions and buff staff. Lower cooldown on the dredge seeing it's in the elite slot and just going in water kills it.

Buff the weapon that no matter what spec -Condi or power, no matter if Base, Reaper or Scourge 90% Necros use this weapon? Cant be that bad, when it can be unblockable AoE spamming. Its go staff - spam all the marks, go different weapon. Also, the Elite does have an underwater form, why not rather than reduce the cool down, just make it so it swaps from the Ground summon to the water summon when you go into water?

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Why is imbalance such an issue? Just play and have fun, it's really not a big deal. If your beloved class sucks atm just play what is good atm. Man, chill or go play other games for a couple of weeks...

Imbalance is not an issue. Toxic community and wannabe elitists are, who generate massiv hate on classes, kicking you because you play that class etc. And since you cannot punish these guys, why should you punish them for making content for anet, you HAVE TO BALANCE this game.

But no problem my friend, maybe i will play another game, maybe forever. Blizzard did a good job with the battle for azeroth trailer. They know how to keep up the good work, i will take my credit card with me and support them, because anet doesnt need money. :open_mouth:

We will see thuesday. :P

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@Nord.1492 said:

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Why is imbalance such an issue? Just play and have fun, it's really not a big deal. If your beloved class sucks atm just play what is good atm. Man, chill or go play other games for a couple of weeks...

Imbalance is not an issue. Toxic community and wannabe elitists are, who generate massiv hate on classes, kicking you because you play that class etc. And since you cannot punish these guys, why should you punish them for making content for anet, you HAVE TO BALANCE this game.

But no problem my friend, maybe i will play another game, maybe forever. Blizzard did a good job with the battle for azeroth trailer. They know how to keep up the good work, i will take my credit card with me and support them, because anet doesnt need money. :open_mouth:

We will see thuesday. :P

^^^ this says it best for me fully. and pretty sure they will be new stuff broken with the new patch . and no new fixes or even updates and they sure will not fix the wall you run into the trade post at the char home town . much less any thing else i also bet patch day will be interesting to read over on the not so called official forums .

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I'm going to rant. This balance patch better good. It's not just the condi. That's a given. Condi is out of control right now. it's not just pof and the new specializations. But there are alot of things that are power based that have just too much. Too precastable, tons of cc, tons of condi, all in one button. Combos that make you wonder if the guy on the other end is on macro because it's really just too fast sometimes. You guys should SLOW DOWN and TONE DOWN. Sometimes It's NOT FUN anymore. I have to play cancer classes just to keep up with other cancer classes. You've got some core skills from years ago that are still in question. 17k Coalescence of Ruin? wth. Some weapon sets are still way way above others and others not being used. Some playstyles are just too easy for the amount of damage they pop. Classes and builds that allow full damage and defense all in one. This expansion has aggravated it more. Same mistakes over and over again. I like pof. I like your game. I like gw2. I like your support. But until now, the class balancing is inept. Maybe a different model should be in effect. Something more akin to the usual agile method of development. Maybe you need a more controlled and tighter environment like the pvp scene? I hear they've got issues there too. I don't know. I just hope this patch is good. For the future of your own franchise.

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As I read all these comments. I have to ask? Have any of you played anything other than GW2? I get the balance complaints, but in reality ANETs balancing isn't that far off from most games. There will always be broken specs, in both directions. It happens in Every MMO, really every game.

FOTM, is not new to gaming, it's not only in GW2, it will be in whatever game you play. If that fact of gaming bothers you that much. Maybe it's time to find a different hobby?

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@Allarius.5670 said:

I have found in my own experience that open communication breeds greater understanding. This suggests that the part of the community that stays informed and abreast of upcoming changes acts as a mouth piece for Anet to the rest of the community, and without greater communication you create a situation where unfounded rumor is more likely to become the expectations of the community and leads to frustration, disappointment, dissatisfaction with the game, and anger.

Despite apparent desires to bring wholesale balance adjustments more frequently, Anet has shown time and again they are unable to do so. As players, the reasons are less important than the fact. Greater communication would go a long way to ease transition periods by giving players a roadmap, directing their expectations, giving them something to focus on, and reigning in hope.

"We don't talk about it until it is ready to ship" is a great policy for most of the game, creating a kind of 'Christmas when you are a kid' feeling with surprise and elatement when changes do come. This works well for new releases, but less so things like balance. Not communicating regarding these aspects of the game leads to a disgruntled populace that could be better made into allies.

Look to the sPvP devs for a great example. When they do talk they do a great job of stating things on their radar, things they hope to address soon, and setting expectations. They also balance well providing specifics and staying vague when and where appropriate. More of this could go a long way to help ease the frustrations we see in this thread rather than create this weird sense of disregard and disrespect many players seem to feel.

Everything about this post is true. A simple way to see this is to look at any asian MMO that has also been published in the west. Because the game is generally updated in Asia months before NA/EU gets it, people have access to translated balance patchnotes long before they hit. Rather than being a negative, it allows PvP players to plan for any meta shift in advance.

Anet needs to seriously reconsider their policy here with how their balance updates are handled. Their current model is flat out wrong.

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