Are the Elder Dragon natural ?

[Dawanarth.4601]

Like were they created from natural evolution or were they nurtured from another source and became what they now are (which is dead)

[Rognik.2579]

We still don't know that much of the dragons' background, but as far as we can tell, this is a natural cycle. No one brought dragons in specifically to eat all the magic and destroy sentient life.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Unknown, but the planet seems to require (under normal circumstances) six entities connected with The All to maintain magic. Kralkatorrik having a mother does imply there could have been something before the current Elder Dragons, but whether it was nothing, something else, or simply other Elder Dragons is unclear.

[RyuDragnier.9476]

Likely answers to be given in End of Dragons, assuming they don't just drop those plot points like they're prone to do in the story.

[Dawanarth.4601]

8 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Unknown, but the planet seems to require (under normal circumstances) six entities connected with The All to maintain magic.

So it's possible that the presence of the Dragons kept a certain balance in the world ? Where their absence could cause a cataclysm or an invasion from another dimension ? (Maybe the one the human are from ?)

[Rognik.2579]

13 hours ago, Dawanarth.4601 said:

So it's possible that the presence of the Dragons kept a certain balance in the world ? Where their absence could cause a cataclysm or an invasion from another dimension ? (Maybe the one the human are from ?)

Remember in Season 3, that became our primary motivation not to kill the dragons, since two dragons' deaths meant an imbalance, and destroying a third risked destabilizing everything and bringing about the end of the world. Somehow, Aurene seems to be counteracting this, so there is no current threat. At least, I hope so since 5 dragons are now dead.

[Fueki.4753]

For all we know, Arenanet could pull something similar to world souls in World of Warcraft and have Tyria be the "mother" of the Elder Dragons.

Outside of Jormag calling itself and Primordus twins, only the crystal dragons show signs of family relations.

If that were to be the case, it'd possible that Kralkatorrik called Tyria his mother because it's the closest thing he can describe her as, given that he knows the concept of family.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

11 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

For all we know, Arenanet could pull something similar to world souls in World of Warcraft and have Tyria be the "mother" of the Elder Dragons.

Outside of Jormag calling itself and Primordus twins, only the crystal dragons show signs of family relations.

If that were to be the case, it'd possible that Kralkatorrik called Tyria his mother because it's the closest thing he can describe her as, given that he knows the concept of family.

It could also be that his 'mother' was the prior Crystal Elder Dragon and he was her lieutenant like Glint was for him.

I think that they're supposed to pass on their status as Elder Dragons (and most likely die in the process) to their lieutenants eventually, otherwise the cycle and overconsumption of magic corrupts them/makes them insane.

I think you get hints of that at the end of LWS4  and would a great way for the plot to play out.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 9/28/2021 at 4:31 AM, Dawanarth.4601 said:

So it's possible that the presence of the Dragons kept a certain balance in the world ? Where their absence could cause a cataclysm or an invasion from another dimension ? (Maybe the one the human are from ?)

That's what Season 3, Path of Fire, and Season 4 tell us. Kill more than two Elder Dragons without replacements, and the world will "tilt and all things fall off of it" (per The Apostate) or "spin out of control" (per Ogden) or "go blagh" (per Taimi).

It's the entire reason (next to "he impersonated an evil being and demonetized an evil tyrannical cult") we antagonized Balthazar who wanted to kill the Elder Dragons with us.

[Teratus.2859]

Lot of speculation and theory about it but much as Konig said we just don't know for sure.
Kralkatorrik confirmed to have a mother and of course Jormag and Primordus being confirmed twins are probably the biggest things that make some suspect that the current Elder Dragons at some point in time were born from other dragons and somehow  became Elder Dragons.. likely by usurping existing unknown Elder Dragons or something else that granted them significant power and originally served the same role.

Similar speculation also holds for Human Gods as well which are often compared with Elder Dragons due to their power and certain similarities.
We know Balthazar had a father whom he killed and a half brother who he was at war with forever.
We also know Dwayna has a Son, Grenth who usurped Dhuum and became a full God of Death because of it.
Kormir became a Godess after defeating Abaddon and absorbing his power and Abaddon himself is said to have gained his power originally from an older unknown god.

Unfortunately lore like this dates back so far in time that there are virtually no existing records of it in the game world and likely none exist due largely in part to the Elder Dragons cycle of destruction.
Hardly any species and cultures have survived an Elder Dragon cycle intact and records and lore of previous cycles tends to be quite rare and limited.

[EdwinLi.1284]

On 9/28/2021 at 2:58 PM, Rognik.2579 said:

Remember in Season 3, that became our primary motivation not to kill the dragons, since two dragons' deaths meant an imbalance, and destroying a third risked destabilizing everything and bringing about the end of the world. Somehow, Aurene seems to be counteracting this, so there is no current threat. At least, I hope so since 5 dragons are now dead.

well she does not fully counter it since the only reason the world did not end at the end of Icebrood saga is because a good amount of the magical energy released with the death of two Elder Dragons that Aurene could not absorb was being absorbed by something else. 

That something, to my best guess, is the reason why the Commander is going to Cantha since something in Cantha is absorbing all the magic released from dead Elder Dragons which may also provide a alternative or something to help support Aurene with keeping the balance. After all it will not be a very good idea if there are no alternatives to Aurene as well since if she dies anytime in the future long after GW2 time with nothing to act as a alternative then the world is screwed.

Edited September 29, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 9/29/2021 at 12:44 PM, Teratus.2859 said:

Jormag and Primordus being confirmed twins

To be clear, the "confirmation" comes from Jormag foremost (others, later, use the same terminology and treat Jormag's words as "confirmation"), who refers to Aurene as both sister and niece.

So Jormag clearly views Elder Dragons as siblings, even if they're very obviously not (Aurene being Jormag's sister), so it's hard to say if the other use of sibling terminology by Jormag for Elder Dragons is at all accurate. Jormag may not lie, but that doesn't mean they can't be using metaphores and similes.

 

On 9/29/2021 at 12:44 PM, Teratus.2859 said:

Similar speculation also holds for Human Gods as well which are often compared with Elder Dragons due to their power and certain similarities.
We know Balthazar had a father whom he killed and a half brother who he was at war with forever.
We also know Dwayna has a Son, Grenth who usurped Dhuum and became a full God of Death because of it.
Kormir became a Godess after defeating Abaddon and absorbing his power and Abaddon himself is said to have gained his power originally from an older unknown god.

To clarify: Nothing says how Balthazar's father died, just that he did. Nothing says Balthazar is the one who killed him, or even the one who decapitated him. It isn't even clear the manner in which he was carrying his fathers head - was it in triumph, or grief?

Addendum: If Utopia's lore remains canon (which is implied but not confirmed via the Complete Art of Guild Wars book), Dwayna also has a father.

[genjonah.1253]

Well, the existence of Zhaitan (even if not current) suggests there were more dragons, being as he’s an amalgamated corpse of several, and they were pretty big. Between that, Jormag’s and Kralk’s dialogue, and the existence of Aurene and, formerly, Glint and Vlast, implies/shows that not just dragons, but Elder Dragons can reproduce viable offspringg

[Teratus.2859]

12 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

To be clear, the "confirmation" comes from Jormag foremost (others, later, use the same terminology and treat Jormag's words as "confirmation"), who refers to Aurene as both sister and niece.

So Jormag clearly views Elder Dragons as siblings, even if they're very obviously not (Aurene being Jormag's sister), so it's hard to say if the other use of sibling terminology by Jormag for Elder Dragons is at all accurate. Jormag may not lie, but that doesn't mean they can't be using metaphores and similes.

Aye sibling etc is a bit more vague but Twin is far more specific if you ask me.

If she simply referred to Primordus as her brother that would be one thing but calling him her Twin implies there is a more direct sibling link between them rather than a metaphorical one.
That said it's also still possible that all the Elder Dragons are related although considering how their forms vary between Dragon that's kind of an out there theory.
But then Jormag and Primordus despite being Twins had vastly different body types as well if we go by concept art for their full bodies.. plus Primordus showed that Ed's can just change how they look at will.. so who knows really.

There really isn't any need for Jormag to have referred to Primordus as specifically her Twin.
They are each others weaknesses and there is some kind of link between them but there is no way for us to know if that connection is the result of their Twin bond or the elements they represent.
I would think the bond would play a bigger part than just the elements but that's just me.

This is one of those answers I don't think we can ever know unless we actually learn more about the origins of these Dragons, and tbh I don't see Anet looking to invest more into Elder Dragon story after End of Dragons so unless we learn this during the next expansion (which might be possible if time does play a big part in the story, as well as this "mother" character) then I doub't we'll ever really learn much about their origins.

 

12 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

To clarify: Nothing says how Balthazar's father died, just that he did. Nothing says Balthazar is the one who killed him, or even the one who decapitated him. It isn't even clear the manner in which he was carrying his fathers head - was it in triumph, or grief?

Addendum: If Utopia's lore remains canon (which is implied but not confirmed via the Complete Art of Guild Wars book), Dwayna also has a father.

Balthazar from everything we know about his personality etc strikes me as the kind of being who would kill his own father if it suited him.
Specially if that was the means for how he became a God in the first place and more so if he believed his father to be weak or unfit to hold the position.
We definitely see that come out in Path of Fire.

But Even before Gw2, Balthazar was known largely for his ferocity and warmongering.
While some praised him as the God of War, Fire and Challenge others saw him as nothing more than a God of  mass murderer.
He certainly had little to no compassion or forgiveness to spare for those he deemed weak or cowardly either.
Considering too that other Gods like Dwayna and Melandru were very peace loving it's likely they would have butted heads a lot with someone like Balthazar over the years and were likely glad to finally be rid of him.

It's actually a little surprising that Balthazar went against Abaddon tbh, it would have been well in character for Balthazar to have agreed with Abaddon about giving humans so much magic, all the wars fought with it would have been something Balthazar would have supported.
I expect he may have even done so up until the point The Margonites raided and pillaged the other Gods temples and Abaddon declared war on the Gods.
That would have been the point that makes most sense for Balthazar to have changed his mind and seen Abaddon as an enemy.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Teratus.2859

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

12 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Aye sibling etc is a bit more vague but Twin is far more specific if you ask me.

If she simply referred to Primordus as her brother that would be one thing but calling him her Twin implies there is a more direct sibling link between them rather than a metaphorical one.
That said it's also still possible that all the Elder Dragons are related although considering how their forms vary between Dragon that's kind of an out there theory.
But then Jormag and Primordus despite being Twins had vastly different body types as well if we go by concept art for their full bodies.. plus Primordus showed that Ed's can just change how they look at will.. so who knows really.

There really isn't any need for Jormag to have referred to Primordus as specifically her Twin.
They are each others weaknesses and there is some kind of link between them but there is no way for us to know if that connection is the result of their Twin bond or the elements they represent.
I would think the bond would play a bigger part than just the elements but that's just me.

The twin bit is pretty clearly in reference to how their powers are opposites and linked.

Though Season 3 presented the possibility that Mordremoth and Zhaitan were similarly "opposites" on the Antikytheria's wheel, it seems the IBS writers either overlooked that (and EoD's establishment of weaknesses that gave Kralk's his own) just as they overlooked the whole "need four living Elder Dragons to not let the world explode", which resulted in this "twin" situation.

Quote

Balthazar from everything we know about his personality etc strikes me as the kind of being who would kill his own father if it suited him.

Specially if that was the means for how he became a God in the first place and more so if he believed his father to be weak or unfit to hold the position.
We definitely see that come out in Path of Fire.

Balthazar as presented in Season 3 and Path of Fire, sure. But how he is presented in the core game and especially in GW1 are so very, very different. Despite the change, Balthazar in Path of Fire isn't one to kill simply because he deems someone weak.

Despite his manchild devolution for the expansion plot, Balthazar is repeatedly presented as an honorable individual (even references this in tiny bit in S3 and PoF) and not a bloodthirsty maniac who's only drive is pure combat.

And we can firmly deny the notion that Balthazar's father was a god, because a god's body breaks apart when killed - as seen with both Abaddon and Balthazar, and given his state very likely Dhuum as well.

Quote

But Even before Gw2, Balthazar was known largely for his ferocity and warmongering.
While some praised him as the God of War, Fire and Challenge others saw him as nothing more than a God of  mass murderer.

He certainly had little to no compassion or forgiveness to spare for those he deemed weak or cowardly either.

The only reference to "mass murder" was by the asura Gixx, who can't even remember Balthazar's name before giving a presentation on the god back in Season 2. Hardly a reliable source. And in GW1, he's far more known for his teachings to be honorable, not be prideful, and defend innocents who cannot fight for themselves.

Yes, he's a god of war and challenge, who believed humans had the best right to rule the "new world" of Thyria when they arrived, but that's a far cry of "you're weak so I shall kill you and carry your head as a trophy!"

GW2 writers did a 180 on Balthazar's personality in Path of Fire and the Parables in Siren's Landing compared to GW1 or core game, creating a highly inconsistent narrative for him. No better than WoW writers of certain villains, tbh. In the end, Balthazar was chosen as the main villain of PoF because he was the god of war, and not because of how he was written.

His S3/PoF personality befits Menzies far more than Balthazar when comparing to GW1 or even core GW2.

11 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

It's actually a little surprising that Balthazar went against Abaddon tbh, it would have been well in character for Balthazar to have agreed with Abaddon about giving humans so much magic, all the wars fought with it would have been something Balthazar would have supported.
I expect he may have even done so up until the point The Margonites raided and pillaged the other Gods temples and Abaddon declared war on the Gods.
That would have been the point that makes most sense for Balthazar to have changed his mind and seen Abaddon as an enemy.

The Margonites raiding the Temple of the Six Gods was actually well before the declaration of war. The order of events is:

1. Abaddon is tasked with giving out magic. He does so by unleashing magic from the Bloodstone, gifting unique magic to different groups.
2. Groups waged war (who on who is unknown), prompting King Doric to travel to Arah and beseech the gods to revoke the gift; they agreed and returned magic to the Bloodstone.
3. Upset by their patron gods' gift being removed, the Margonites raided the Temple of the Six Gods on the southern shores of the Crystal Sea and defaced the non-Abaddon statues.
4. The Forgotten saw this and began a purge of Margonites, wiping many out. Jadoth then prayed for salvation to Abaddon. After some contemplation, Abaddon responded by wiping out the pursuing Forgotten Armada and turning Jadoth into the demonic Margonite seen in GW1.
5. Abaddon then declares war on the other gods, and raided the Gates of Heaven (location unknown) with the Horde of Darkness demonic Margonites. It was at this point the other gods step in as far as we know.
6. Abaddon is struck down by the might of the five other gods, lost his original body, and imprisoned in the heart of the Realm of Torment (his own domain).

Edited October 1, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

38 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Balthazar was chosen as the main villain of PoF because he was the god of war, and not because of how he was written.

His S3/PoF personality befits Menzies far more than Balthazar when comparing to GW1 or even core GW2.

Not gonna lie, I still find it sorta stupid that Balthazar was chosen as the main villain of PoF when they had Menzies this entire time. Feels like PoF was just them wanting to shoehorn a good guy from GW1 into a bad guy in GW2, and they tried way too hard that we ended up with two of them (Balthazar and Devona).

PoF could've taken a very different direction on the story, possibly a more interesting one if it involved fighting Menzies over Balthazar. 

[The Greyhawk.9107]

7 hours ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

Not gonna lie, I still find it sorta stupid that Balthazar was chosen as the main villain of PoF when they had Menzies this entire time. Feels like PoF was just them wanting to shoehorn a good guy from GW1 into a bad guy in GW2, and they tried way too hard that we ended up with two of them (Balthazar and Devona).

PoF could've taken a very different direction on the story, possibly a more interesting one if it involved fighting Menzies over Balthazar. 

Balthazar being turned without reason still annoys me to this day, but what they did to Devona genuinely infuriated me.

[Pax.3548]

On 10/1/2021 at 5:48 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Balthazar as presented in Season 3 and Path of Fire, sure. But how he is presented in the core game and especially in GW1 are so very, very different. Despite the change, Balthazar in Path of Fire isn't one to kill simply because he deems someone weak.

Despite his manchild devolution for the expansion plot, Balthazar is repeatedly presented as an honorable individual (even references this in tiny bit in S3 and PoF) and not a bloodthirsty maniac who's only drive is pure combat.

I'm so tired of watching this "Balthazar was honorable god in gw1" HE WAS NOT, the biggest proof of this is Kaolai's statue plaque which I'll quote:

"When the gods walked Tyria a thousand years ago, the Ritualist Kaolai, an old man even then, challenged Balthazar to a game of Nui in exchange for sparing a village that had offended the god through some long-forgotten breach of etiquette. Balthazar laughingly accepted and the game began. Seven days later it ended with Kaolai the winner; the villagers were spared. But in a fit of anger, Balthazar slew Kaolai. Afterward, in a rare gesture of sportsmanship, the god ordered Kaolai inducted into Tahnnakai Temple."

 

Where in the kitten was he honorable here? he was going to slaughter a whole village just because a breach of etiquette! and when a man who challenged him won a game he KILLED HIM where in the world do you see honor there? since gw1 I never once got the impression that Balthazar was a honorable god, but a brutal one (fitting for a god of war too)

Edited October 4, 2021 by Pax.3548

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

11 hours ago, Pax.3548 said:

I'm so tired of watching this "Balthazar was honorable god in gw1" HE WAS NOT, the biggest proof of this is Kaolai's statue plaque which I'll quote:

"When the gods walked Tyria a thousand years ago, the Ritualist Kaolai, an old man even then, challenged Balthazar to a game of Nui in exchange for sparing a village that had offended the god through some long-forgotten breach of etiquette. Balthazar laughingly accepted and the game began. Seven days later it ended with Kaolai the winner; the villagers were spared. But in a fit of anger, Balthazar slew Kaolai. Afterward, in a rare gesture of sportsmanship, the god ordered Kaolai inducted into Tahnnakai Temple."

 

Where in the kitten was he honorable here? he was going to slaughter a whole village just because a breach of etiquette! and when a man who challenged him won a game he KILLED HIM where in the world do you see honor there? since gw1 I never once got the impression that Balthazar was a honorable god, but a brutal one (fitting for a god of war too)

You are quoting one situation, versus several situations.

First off, it isn't like an individual is perpetually consistent in characteristics - this took place thousands of years before GW1, and the honorable god teachings we know of are from GW1's era. So there's a thousand year difference - perhaps Abaddon's rebellion changed Balthazar's personality, or perhaps this was an isolated incident.

We don't know what that "long-forgotten breach of etiquette" was, or how important it was to Balthazar.

And having a fit of anger isn't dishonorable - it's natural. Even the most calm and collected people can end up having a shouting match, and when a god has a shouting match - well, when Kormir got mildly upset, her realm began to collapse. So consider how the environment would fair if a god got mad enough to slam their fist into a table.

 

To reword your own sentence: "I'm so tired of watching this "Balthazar was dishonorable god because of Kaolai's story" because IT IS ONE TIME IN FIFTEEN HUNDRED YEAR SPAN."

 

One event lasting a handful of minutes doesn't define a character's entire personality that spans over a thousand years.

 

In GW1, there was one event where Balthazar was shown to have anger issues, and dozens of events, teachings, and rituals that show that he favored honor and defense of those who cannot fight for themselves against evil forces.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 9/28/2021 at 1:31 AM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Kralkatorrik having a mother does imply there could have been something before the current Elder Dragons, but whether it was nothing, something else, or simply other Elder Dragons is unclear.

If it was the "Mother", it would suggest that Aurene could take over that role again once the other Elder Dragons are no more.

I hope we will learn more of the Elder Dragons' origin in EoD.

[Pax.3548]

4 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

You are quoting one situation, versus several situations.

First off, it isn't like an individual is perpetually consistent in characteristics - this took place thousands of years before GW1, and the honorable god teachings we know of are from GW1's era. So there's a thousand year difference - perhaps Abaddon's rebellion changed Balthazar's personality, or perhaps this was an isolated incident.

We don't know what that "long-forgotten breach of etiquette" was, or how important it was to Balthazar.

And having a fit of anger isn't dishonorable - it's natural. Even the most calm and collected people can end up having a shouting match, and when a god has a shouting match - well, when Kormir got mildly upset, her realm began to collapse. So consider how the environment would fair if a god got mad enough to slam their fist into a table.

 

To reword your own sentence: "I'm so tired of watching this "Balthazar was dishonorable god because of Kaolai's story" because IT IS ONE TIME IN FIFTEEN HUNDRED YEAR SPAN."

 

One event lasting a handful of minutes doesn't define a character's entire personality that spans over a thousand years.

 

In GW1, there was one event where Balthazar was shown to have anger issues, and dozens of events, teachings, and rituals that show that he favored honor and defense of those who cannot fight for themselves against evil forces.

Its one situation because its the only one recorded and showed to us, you seriously think a god who was going to slaughter a village just because a breach of etiquette, and who killed a man just because he won a game, would only have this particulary deed on his head? worse, somehow you're trying to justifice him killing a man just because he had a tantrum over losing a game? sure he was a god and felt it was his right, but no way he can call himself honorable with that kind of attitude, besides everything we know about him was delivered by his HUMAN followers who obviously are going to paint a pretty picture about their god.

 

At the end of the day, put the story told in Kaolai's Plaque in front on anyone and ask them if theiy think this kind of god is honorable, I always liked Balth, he was brutal and strong, fitting for a god of war, but do not sell the story about him being an honorable god, because he wasn't, and historical facts points to that, and don't you say its only one situation, because you should know by now anet doesn't show us much background on many of the game's characters, despite the fact that many npcs seems to know things the players can't know, and thats why many believe Balthazar to be the god of mass murder, because in the world of gw2 there must be many recordings and stories about Balthazar being the brutal god he was, that the players don't know about.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

21 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

If it was the "Mother", it would suggest that Aurene could take over that role again once the other Elder Dragons are no more.

I hope we will learn more of the Elder Dragons' origin in EoD.

For all we know, Kralk's mother was just the previous Elder Crystal Dragon before Kralkatorrik, which would mean Aurene already took that role.

20 hours ago, Pax.3548 said:

Its one situation because its the only one recorded and showed to us, you seriously think a god who was going to slaughter a village just because a breach of etiquette, and who killed a man just because he won a game, would only have this particulary deed on his head?

It's not the only one recorded though, there are other events recorded, and none include anger management issues (Balthazar didn't "kill a man just because he won a game"; Balthazar "killed a man out of anger, and then repented that killing" giving a heavy indication that Balthazar accidentally killed Kaolai).

20 hours ago, Pax.3548 said:

worse, somehow you're trying to justifice him killing a man just because he had a tantrum over losing a game? sure he was a god and felt it was his right, but no way he can call himself honorable with that kind of attitude

No, I'm trying to present the possibility that being a god means that a slight uncontrolled action can have deadly consequences, which we actually see happen and thus can confirm to be true to a degree in GW2, and that we shouldn't be under the perception that a divine being is fully in control of their emotions at all time, especially given that the Six Gods are pretty heavily influenced from the Greek pantheon and similar polytheistic groups who are notoriously known for not being in perfect control of their emotions.

20 hours ago, Pax.3548 said:

, besides everything we know about him was delivered by his HUMAN followers who obviously are going to paint a pretty picture about their god.

And Forgotten followers, and centaur followers, and Margonite enemies.

And it should be noted that the story you so desperately cling to as being the best source of judgment of his character in GW1 comes from his HUMAN followers.

[Pax.3548]

9 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

It's not the only one recorded though, there are other events recorded, and none include anger management issues (Balthazar didn't "kill a man just because he won a game"; Balthazar "killed a man out of anger, and then repented that killing" giving a heavy indication that Balthazar accidentally killed Kaolai).

No, I'm trying to present the possibility that being a god means that a slight uncontrolled action can have deadly consequences, which we actually see happen and thus can confirm to be true to a degree in GW2, and that we shouldn't be under the perception that a divine being is fully in control of their emotions at all time, especially given that the Six Gods are pretty heavily influenced from the Greek pantheon and similar polytheistic groups who are notoriously known for not being in perfect control of their emotions.

And Forgotten followers, and centaur followers, and Margonite enemies.

And it should be noted that the story you so desperately cling to as being the best source of judgment of his character in GW1 comes from his HUMAN followers.

"But in a fit of anger, Balthazar slew Kaolai. Afterward, in a rare gesture of sportsmanship, the god ordered Kaolai inducted into Tahnnakai Temple." None of these words even slightly show Balthazar repented about his action, just like a rare gesture of sportsmanship did he ordered kaolai inducted into the temple.

 

I just think you won't accept the possibilyty Balthazar had serious anger management that in common perspective could be define into a brutal god of war, not an honorable god . I want you to quote the stories and records you seem to insinuate the forgotten, the centaurs and the Margonite had about Balthazar, that can show a glimpse that he was an honorable God.

 

You lessen the importance of a objective recorded story on a human temple (of people who believed in Balthazar), yet this is the one wall you won't break in your attempt to convince he was an honorable god, if you can't show similar objective and of same importance story.

[HotDelirium.7984]

spoilers!

Spoiler

but when we talk to Taimi and gorrek they talk about Mother briefly which i take it as a foreshadow to discovering about that and maybe the true origins of the dragons and everyone's place in the world?

 

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Whether or not Elder Dragons are natural, they do predate every living thing on Tyria.  They live on apparently geologic scales (this past sleep cycle was about 11,000 years), making them basically the backbone of the Tyrian ecosystem.

 

Regardless of their origin, it seems safe to say that if they aren't natural, then nothing at all on Tyria is.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Drarnor Kunoram.5180