Will anet look into a 112-8 winrate?

[xiaoyan.1637]

Just curious.  Because there is no possible way that can be achieved in ranked without something nefarious. 

[voltaicbore.8012]

EDIT: Almost 100% of what I said below is completely wrong. I already knew there was a lot about the top tiers I was ignorant of, but recently I've seen too much direct evidence to have any faith whatsoever that even a shred of legitimacy remains at the top.  I was totally wrong; I feel the need to admit it, and also preserve the wrongness I used to hold.

ORIGINAL POST:

[I think it's unlikely, but still possible to get that kind of record in this game. It isn't necessarily that the people at the top are utter gods of gaming in general, but more that compared to the rest of us, they might as well be.

While it's certainly true that there are a lot of shenanigans around the top of the leaderboard, the harsh truth is that many of the players at the top simply are better spvp players than the vast majority of the current population. Yes, it's a team mode, and yes, it can be hard to carry 3 or 4 people who don't know what to do, but I came across Naru shortly after PoF launch, and he was on a firebrand. He single handedly turned around a match for his team, and it wasn't that my team was throwing. He showed up in all the worst places for us (in that we couldn't really ignore to afford his presence), either got a decap when we ran off, or notched kills against us if he didn't need to stay on point and could afford to chase. We learned pretty quickly not to rotate into him, but that doesn't help a lot when he saw it coming and instead rotated into us. Sure, the initial PoF balance was a bit nuts, but my team was the one running the broken scourge/FB combo, not his team.

I had a similar experience when I was a very new player coming across Vallun in spvp, with the added bonus that Vallun was quite nice in-game. Many seasons ago when I got the 250 title, I started seeing a lot more of the names on the first couple pages of the leaderboard, and it was apparent that it would be extremely hard for me to get the 100 title or better. They were just that much better than I was, and I didn't feel like putting in the work it would take for me to match them.

I'm not personally aware of the various allegations/proven stories of wintrading and queue sniping at the top, so I don't know who is widely known in the community for cheating. All I know is that despite the very likely presence of cheating, the skilled players are quite a bit more skilled than most other players and have what it takes to personally make a huge impact on matches.]

Edited October 4, 2021 by voltaicbore.8012

[Teplokot.7654]

2 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

I think it's unlikely, but still possible to get that kind of record in this game. It isn't necessarily that the people at the top are utter gods of gaming in general, but more that compared to the rest of us, they might as well be.

I have started playing the game this month. Have been seeing these "gods of gaming" in my Silver games. How come? 

[xiaoyan.1637]

Dude... Naru would tell you himself that a 112-8 record is literally impossible without wintrading.  Btw it's the highest rating in 3 years across all servers, and you write a wall of text saying it's legit.   Lol. It is not.  

[Wild.1705]

I doubt anything will be done.

 

It's happened before and it will happen again. I have had wintraders on friends list that I've been queue dodging for years and they are still fully active doing their sick little thing. The only thing that they really get for is is access to the pvp lobby crafting area and the knowledge that they are sick in the head.

 

To he honest, I see the dev's lack of accknologment of bots, wintrading ect. a statement that they dont care that pvp is a mess. Play the game if you think it's fun. Anet will not care one way or the other.

 

I'd be happy to be proven wrong. A full statement from Anet on the state of bots in pvp is what I would like to see first.

[yorkey.4215]

10 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

I think it's unlikely, but still possible to get that kind of record in this game. It isn't necessarily that the people at the top are utter gods of gaming in general, but more that compared to the rest of us, they might as well be.

While it's certainly true that there are a lot of shenanigans around the top of the leaderboard, the harsh truth is that many of the players at the top simply are better spvp players than the vast majority of the current population. Yes, it's a team mode, and yes, it can be hard to carry 3 or 4 people who don't know what to do, but I came across Naru shortly after PoF launch, and he was on a firebrand. He single handedly turned around a match for his team, and it wasn't that my team was throwing. He showed up in all the worst places for us (in that we couldn't really ignore to afford his presence), either got a decap when we ran off, or notched kills against us if he didn't need to stay on point and could afford to chase. We learned pretty quickly not to rotate into him, but that doesn't help a lot when he saw it coming and instead rotated into us. Sure, the initial PoF balance was a bit nuts, but my team was the one running the broken scourge/FB combo, not his team.

I had a similar experience when I was a very new player coming across Vallun in spvp, with the added bonus that Vallun was quite nice in-game. Many seasons ago when I got the 250 title, I started seeing a lot more of the names on the first couple pages of the leaderboard, and it was apparent that it would be extremely hard for me to get the 100 title or better. They were just that much better than I was, and I didn't feel like putting in the work it would take for me to match them.

I'm not personally aware of the various allegations/proven stories of wintrading and queue sniping at the top, so I don't know who is widely known in the community for cheating. All I know is that despite the very likely presence of cheating, the skilled players are quite a bit more skilled than most other players and have what it takes to personally make a huge impact on matches.

 

Your post shows you don't know PVP well enough.  You can have two legend level players duoing with one on a bronze alt, queuing off hours, and dodging other top players all at once, and you STILL WOULDN'T come close to a 112-8 record without wintrading.  There is a certain degree of variability in shadow realm games that makes this almost mathematically impossible if you have 5 players (or bots) on each team playing legitimately.  Trust me, from a P2 player who has played many seasons. 

[voltaicbore.8012]

  

32 minutes ago, xiaoyan.1637 said:

Dude... Naru would tell you himself that a 112-8 record is literally impossible without wintrading.  Btw it's the highest rating in 3 years across all servers, and you write a wall of text saying it's legit.   Lol. It is not.  

Well I'd say my response was a bit more nuanced than "it's legit", but yes, my point was that the ratio alone isn't like some sort of self-proving fact. Definitely suspicious and ANet should look into it, 100% agree with you on that. But the number itself isn't the proof for me, is all. I guess I should have just said that and left it there, rather than launching into a story about getting my kitten beat down by better players for so long lol.
 

 

24 minutes ago, yorkey.4215 said:

Your post shows you don't know PVP well enough.  You can have two legend level players duoing with one on a bronze alt, queuing off hours, and dodging other top players all at once, and you STILL WOULDN'T come close to a 112-8 record without wintrading.  There is a certain degree of variability in shadow realm games that makes this almost mathematically impossible if you have 5 players (or bots) on each team playing legitimately.  Trust me, from a P2 player who has played many seasons. 

Guilty as charged. I stopped actually trying to improve my rank/mmr many, many seasons ago, and only returned to ranked after the legendary armory released so I could finish my last set of armor. Having a decent time farming pips in gold 3.

I fully admit (as I did in my post earlier as well) that I have little idea of thecheating going on. I certainly heard of it on the forums and in chat, but I didn't (and still don't) care enough to actually find out how it works, who is abusing it, what ANet doesn't do about it, etc. My one brush with p2 was more than enough for me. I couldn't maintain 1600+ mmr for more than 3 matches, and I was already being careful about queue times and swapping for my team into more favorable comps, etc.

Outside of wintrading/smurfing/all the other BS, my experience is that wins come from being able to carry your team's bads just a bit better than the side is able to carry their bads. Given just how bad so many of us are and how shrunken the population is, I can imagine a point where the few good players left might not come across each other that often, and they'd be able to out-carry the other team on a near-guaranteed basis.

But as I responded to @xiaoyan.1637, it's obviously likely that 112-8 is not legit. I just have an allergy to seeing things being treated as self-proving facts.

Edited September 28, 2021 by voltaicbore.8012

[voltaicbore.8012]

34 minutes ago, Teplokot.7654 said:

I have started playing the game this month. Have been seeing these "gods of gaming" in my Silver games. How come? 

Low population and match manipulation. Someone else already mentioned the manipulation bit - two high ranked players queue together, but one of them gets on a much lower ranked alt account. That lowers their average rating as a pair, and forces the matchmaker to try and put them into a lower ranked match. There should be a limit to how effective this should be, but the algorithm is set so that after a certain amount of time, it allows for an absolutely huge disparity in player ratings within the same match.

Even outside of manipulation, as I mentioned the algorithm itself allows for huge disparities in player ratings, so low enough population would result in similar mismatches. If I'm understanding the algorithm correctly, If someone very highly ranked is on but nobody else but silvers are available, the game will eventually throw that person into a match.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

I think it's unlikely, but still possible to get that kind of record in this game. It isn't necessarily that the people at the top are utter gods of gaming in general, but more that compared to the rest of us, they might as well be.

While it's certainly true that there are a lot of shenanigans around the top of the leaderboard, the harsh truth is that many of the players at the top simply are better spvp players than the vast majority of the current population. Yes, it's a team mode, and yes, it can be hard to carry 3 or 4 people who don't know what to do, but I came across Naru shortly after PoF launch, and he was on a firebrand. He single handedly turned around a match for his team, and it wasn't that my team was throwing. He showed up in all the worst places for us (in that we couldn't really ignore to afford his presence), either got a decap when we ran off, or notched kills against us if he didn't need to stay on point and could afford to chase. We learned pretty quickly not to rotate into him, but that doesn't help a lot when he saw it coming and instead rotated into us. Sure, the initial PoF balance was a bit nuts, but my team was the one running the broken scourge/FB combo, not his team.

I had a similar experience when I was a very new player coming across Vallun in spvp, with the added bonus that Vallun was quite nice in-game. Many seasons ago when I got the 250 title, I started seeing a lot more of the names on the first couple pages of the leaderboard, and it was apparent that it would be extremely hard for me to get the 100 title or better. They were just that much better than I was, and I didn't feel like putting in the work it would take for me to match them.

I'm not personally aware of the various allegations/proven stories of wintrading and queue sniping at the top, so I don't know who is widely known in the community for cheating. All I know is that despite the very likely presence of cheating, the skilled players are quite a bit more skilled than most other players and have what it takes to personally make a huge impact on matches.

Nah, it's definitely win trading. People don't even try to hide it anymore. It has become ridiculously publicly discussed & accepted at this point. Even normal average players are sending out /g messages saying things like, and I quote: "Hey we need a squad to queue ranked". People are doing it now just to get their top 100 titles or top 25 w/e it is they want to aim at.

This community is pretty old and pretty small, like a high school. Everyone knows each other. Everyone knows the real skill values of each other, and as such it is quite visible on the leaderboards who is match manipulating to get their rating, and who is playing for real who still values representing legitimate play.

But don't condone these assward measures to cheat. I mean I get why people do it, so many are doing it so why not? I get it. But don't condone it, don't protect it, don't act like it isn't happening because the truth is that it is wildly out of control and many people are using match manipulation techniques nowadays.

 

Tbh they just need to scrap the ranked mode. It is unfortunately ruined for so many reasons.

ATs are a much better, no-nonsense, organic way of sorting who the best players actually are.

Keep unranked for fun play, keep ATs for competitive play, but get rid of ranked.

 

 

[Avatar.3568]

1 hour ago, Teplokot.7654 said:

I have started playing the game this month. Have been seeing these "gods of gaming" in my Silver games. How come? 

There are many God titles but only God of pvp and God of the arena are pvp Titles

[voltaicbore.8012]

6 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Nah, it's definitely win trading. People don't even try to hide it anymore. It has become ridiculously publicly discussed & accepted at this point. Even normal average players are sending out /g messages saying things like, and I quote: "Hey we need a squad to queue ranked". People are doing it now just to get their top 100 titles or top 25 w/e it is they want to aim at.

This community is pretty old and pretty small, like a high school. Everyone knows each other. Everyone knows the real skill values of each other, and as such it is quite visible on the leaderboards who is match manipulating to get their rating, and who is playing for real who still values representing legitimate play.

But don't condone these assward measures to cheat. I mean I get why people do it, so many are doing it so why not? I get it. But don't condone it, don't protect it, don't act like it isn't happening because the truth is that it is wildly out of control and many people are using match manipulation techniques nowadays.

 

Tbh they just need to scrap the ranked mode. It is unfortunately ruined for so many reasons.

ATs are a much better, no-nonsense, organic way of sorting who the best players actually are.

Keep unranked for fun play, keep ATs for competitive play, but get rid of ranked.

 

 

Yeah it was pretty apparent that for me to move from top 250 to top 100, I'd probably run into a hard wall thanks to not being part of whatever is going on. I'm sure some people are good enough to soloQ their way up there, but I'm not one of them in the current environment, with people doing what they do up top.

I agree with your longstanding suggestion to scrap ranked at this point, moving prestige into ATs and the rest of the rewards into unranked. That's really why I don't care about the cheating anymore. It's not so much that I condone it, but I've given up on ranked as a competitive mode. It exists only to provide me ascended shards of glory at this point.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

112-8? Those are rookie numbers. There have been some 2v2/3v3 seasons where the top win 100% of their games.

 

Probably not legit though, knowing the 'Gods of PvP'

[Genesis.5169]

118-8 is suspect with no way of making a full premade i agree.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Just lolz, people are just catching on now? To people who think it's legit I've got some premium stocks for sale.

[xiaoyan.1637]

1 hour ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

112-8? Those are rookie numbers. There have been some 2v2/3v3 seasons where the top win 100% of their games.

 

Probably not legit though, knowing the 'Gods of PvP'

With 2v2s and 3v3s it IS possible to win 100% of your games because 1. You can control your entire team and dodge who you run into and 2. Very low variables in deathmatch mode where your mechanics decide the outcome, not the combination of mechanics and rotations.

 

Shows how much you know about the PVP modes.

[xiaoyan.1637]

23 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Just lolz, people are just catching on now? To people who think it's legit I've got some premium stocks for sale.

Nobody is saying we’re just catching on now. The entire PVP community knows about this.  We’re just hoping that with such an egregious example this time, that ANet would find it hard to just blatantly ignore for once. 

[Genesis.5169]

12 minutes ago, xiaoyan.1637 said:

With 2v2s and 3v3s it IS possible to win 100% of your games because 1. You can control your entire team and dodge who you run into and 2. Very low variables in deathmatch mode where your mechanics decide the outcome, not the combination of mechanics and rotations.

 

Shows how much you know about the PVP modes.

 

I just want to say your right not enough smart posters here.

[Filip.7463]

Why would we care about NA?

U get titles and gizmos there for just being friends.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Filip.7463

[Spellhunter.9675]

20 minutes ago, Filip.7463 said:

Why would we care about NA?

Because if some kitten happens on a NA server, it can get to us too.
We have to get Anet to investigate such suspicious cases. And be public on this. In such situation, I expect Anet to publicly announce that they are investigating and then publicly announce the results. Such things can improve the reputation of the pvp scene. And this, in turn, can attract new players to pvp.

[Filip.7463]

17 minutes ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Because if some kitten happens on a NA server, it can get to us too.
We have to get Anet to investigate such suspicious cases. And be public on this. In such situation, I expect Anet to publicly announce that they are investigating and then publicly announce the results. Such things can improve the reputation of the pvp scene. And this, in turn, can attract new players to pvp.

U need to PERMA ban all accounts that insisted in wintrading. But anet doesnt care about it as long as its not RMT.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Filip.7463

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

I have to agree. These 8 losses look very suspicious...way too many..

[Ninja Ferret.6790]

Yeah but no one pressed abt the 111-9 winrate. 

[ArthurDent.9538]

7 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

112-8? Those are rookie numbers. There have been some 2v2/3v3 seasons where the top win 100% of their games.

 

Probably not legit though, knowing the 'Gods of PvP'

100% In 3v3 is pretty easy since you can completely control your whole team and just q when you know there are no other top players qing together. 2v2 is a bit harder due to the more volatile format and need to be top duo when there is more potential for multiple high tier duo's at any given time.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

7 hours ago, xiaoyan.1637 said:

With 2v2s and 3v3s it IS possible to win 100% of your games because 1. You can control your entire team and dodge who you run into and 2. Very low variables in deathmatch mode where your mechanics decide the outcome, not the combination of mechanics and rotations.

 

Shows how much you know about the PVP modes.

It's easier in the deathmatch modes for sure, but even for conquest winrates like these are not unheard of, at least on NA. 

 

I'm agreeing with yous here. Make it easier pls

 

[Filip.7463]

Btw can u post any screenshots of him wintrading?