Ranked pvp should be team only, require a full 5 before being able to Q

[Crab Fear.1624]

I want to address the argument of players who just want to quickly q without all the hassel, and they also say that 90% or some majority percentage of the population in spvp solo qs.

I understand wanting to escape the hassle of forming a team, it requires effort. My personal observation is that humans will often take the easiest route possible to accomplish something, and that really is the case in GW2 pvp.

We see it in build, we see it in armies of the same spec, and of course, a majority of players solo q.

The option is there, so many will do it.

I am suggesting that you remove the ability to q with less than a team of 5 into ranked.

Ranked is like fractals or raids of PVE.

If we look at those two game modes, they either require teams, or essentially require teams to be successful.

And no one, in majority, even questions that.

They form teams, the make successful attempts and they go about their life.

Also, they form teams almost instantly.

No long waits, or anything.

So, as you can see, within your own game it is quite easy/possible for players to form teams even with strangers.

------------

Casual or competitive, those two are exclusive of each other.

I have had years of difficult digestion trying to understand why a game mode that you say "is the bread and butter" of pvp doesn't recieve the same attention as other game modes.

BUt, the biggest issue for me is that the most rewarding or generally competitive game mode in SPVP is allowed to have a solo casual entry, completely opposite to your PVE elite modes.

As a company, you have plenty of evidence from GW1, that enforcing teams in the most popular game modes in pvp doesn't effect the population.

Neglect does though.

I am suggesting that for ranked you take the same measures you do for fractals and raids, and enforce team play.

You decided to design conquest around team play, just like your other game modes such as raids and fractals, so really you should enforce team play in the ranked game modes.

This will still leave unranked to be "casual" in.

--------

What will this ultimately do?

First, it will make the anti team players say "it will ruin the game mode", which will be a complete lie and completely opposite to the reality.

Also, they will say about exploits that you fixed already when teams were last available, as we can see from the current tournies, invalidating that argument.

But.....

It will for 95% or higher of the time remove the ability for players on your own team to sabotage your efforts and throw. There may be a case here and there with absolute random teaming, but block and ban from your own roster and the problem will be solved.

You will revive pvp guilds, which is a huge thing(was) in pvp...this will lead to an increase population.

It will allow you to collect better data on team composition, and class strength.

-----

Once teams becomes the norms, the culture in SPVP will shift.

It will be possible for currently "hard stuck" players to grow and learn and improve because they will experience real competition, they will recieve "coaching" in game from better team mates, and get a variety of strategies on the fly from their team to react to certain plays.

But what some mean players are calling "being carried" is actually a development process called "social learning".

https://www.docebo.com/learning-network/blog/what-is-social-learning-how-to-adopt-it/

 

Which is odd because many of them have been pointed out as being bads who never made it into legend back then or whatever, but eventually did thanks to a carry.

I think they totally gaffed off the development phase of those "carries".

 

-----

 

Ranked pvp should be teams only, and it will ultimately be the best for ranked..

The issues that pop up should be address immediately if they are rating gain exploits.

Solo q has had 25 seasons to show that is really isn't healthy.

There was a significant drop in players and pvp guilds after you removed the teams, and it has only seen similar dips with the 3-6 month post release of POF and the MEGAbalance of 2020.

 

 

 

[Jekkt.6045]

We used to have pretty much every system i can think of in this game. we had automated tournaments on release (the ticket ones) which were great. we had soloQ only which was very competitive back at the time and used to give insanely stacked matches during prime time in top ranks. and well, we had teamQ which was dead.

 

teamQ required 5 players to join and let's face it, most gw2 players are highly antisocial individuals from my personal experience, so almost nobody played it. it took like 10mins+ to find a match and most of the time you faced some random guild friends that had absolutely no clue how to play.

 

the best version of a queue system was during the first 2 seasons of HoT. dynamic queue and once you queued as a team of 3-5 it automatically counted as a team and increased/decreased the mmr of the guild the 3+ players were representing. matches were quite good too. sure, you sometimes had the odd unbalanced match but me and my team often played against pro league teams on a daily basis. i can't speak for low mmr guilds tho, we were 1800+

 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Jekkt.6045

[xiaoyan.1637]

That would just become 5 people que-syncing against a team of their own alts in order to wintrade.  You want to make wintrading even easier??

[Crab Fear.1624]

9 minutes ago, Jekkt.6045 said:

We used to have pretty much every system i can think of in this game. we had automated tournaments on release (the ticket ones) which were great. we had soloQ only which was very competitive back at the time and used to give insanely stacked matches during prime time in top ranks. and well, we had teamQ which was dead.

 

teamQ required 5 players to join and let's face it, most gw2 players are highly antisocial individuals from my personal experience, so almost nobody played it. it took like 10mins+ to find a match and most of the time you faced some random guild friends that had absolutely no clue how to play.

 

the best version of a queue system was during the first 2 seasons of HoT. dynamic queue and once you queued as a team of 3-5 it automatically counted as a team and increased/decreased the mmr of the guild the 3+ players were representing. matches were quite good too. sure, you sometimes had the odd unbalanced match but me and my team often played against pro league teams on a daily basis. i can't speak for low mmr guilds tho, we were 1800+

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, xiaoyan.1637 said:

That would just become 5 people que-syncing against a team of their own alts in order to wintrade.  You want to make wintrading even easier??

 

I think you both misunderstand.

I am asking to abolish any q less than 5.

I want the ranked system to require a full team of 5, and you can not q with any less.

9 minutes ago, Jekkt.6045 said:

teamQ required 5 players to join and let's face it, most gw2 players are highly antisocial individuals from my personal experience, so almost nobody played it. it took like 10mins+ to find a match and most of the time you faced some random guild friends that had absolutely no clue how to play.

I already countered this argument with the first section of my post.

We see already players form teams in other game modes quite easily to pass objectives, so this one fell flat.

The qs were not that bad, but I am saying making it team only, so players will only have the option to play with a team of 5, that q will still shrink down.

 

Solo season was the smallest seasons ever, and it was quickly removed, and team q was not dead. THAT is a lie lol. Where did all the pvp guilds go when it was removed?

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Crab Fear.1624

[ramorambo.6701]

The population of ranked would diminish drastically if 5 person were needed to que, finding 5 people is beyond annoying, look at wow pvp, where you have to manually find 1 or 2 persons and how unfun it is to see people quitting in your face after the first loss.

Solo ranked is good because it's quick and fun, wich keeps a lot of people playing, it would be a terrible idea to force solo players to play unranked since there are almost no rewards for unranked, what you're suggesting is basically automated tournament with extra steps.

The actual problem of ranked matches is the non-existent matchmaking, no distinction between solo and duo que and the semi-low population, anet should start from the population problem, giving more incentives for pvp players, thus expanding the playerbase and providing by result a better matchmaking

Edited September 29, 2021 by ramorambo.6701

[xiaoyan.1637]

6 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

 

 

I think you both misunderstand.

I am asking to abolish any q less than 5.

I want the ranked system to require a full team of 5, and you can not q with any less.

I already countered this argument with the first section of my post.

We see already players form teams in other game modes quite easily to pass objectives, so this one fell flat.

The qs were not that bad, but I am saying making it team only, so players will only have the option to play with a team of 5, that q will still shrink down.

 

Solo season was the smallest seasons ever, and it was quickly removed, and team q was not dead. THAT is a lie lol. Where did all the pvp guilds go when it was removed?

 

You're the one that didn't get my point.  What's gonna stop me from making a team of 5 with my friends, then we all make another team of 5 with alts and wintrade?

[Crab Fear.1624]

2 minutes ago, ramorambo.6701 said:

The population of ranked would diminish drastically if 5 person were needed to que, finding 5 people is beyond annoying, look at wow pvp, where you have to manually find 1 or 2 persons and how unfun it is to see people quitting in your face after the first loss.

Solo ranked is good because it's quick and fun, wich keeps a lot of people playing, it would be a terrible idea to force solo players to play unranked since there are almost no rewards for unranked, what you're suggesting is basically automated tournament with extra steps.

The actual problem of ranked matches is the non-existent matchmaking, no distinction between solo and duo que and the semi-low population, anet should start from the population problem, giving more incentives for pvp players, thus expanding the playerbase and providing by result a better matchmaking

Except it wouldn't and it didnt.

You are making points that are not factually true.

The game mode was healthy and crashed after teams were removed.

We know that fractals and raids require teams, and everyone is still bopping in those.

You base an argument on imagination, and I am basing it on reality.

It is not beyond annoying, but they can also create a better team finder, or you could join a guild.

Most people will adapt, because they did in PVE so there is the proof.

 

The game is mode is all but dead, even a megabalance proved to be fail lol.

 

They know what it will take.

[Crab Fear.1624]

1 minute ago, xiaoyan.1637 said:

You're the one that didn't get my point.  What's gonna stop me from making a team of 5 with my friends, then we all make another team of 5 with alts and wintrade?

You think you will not face other teams?

 

Team only ranked, with no option to play less than a team will ensure you have to play other teams.

 

How you going to match manipulate against my team?

Edited September 29, 2021 by Crab Fear.1624

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

21 minutes ago, Jekkt.6045 said:

We used to have pretty much every system i can think of in this game. we had automated tournaments on release (the ticket ones) which were great. we had soloQ only which was very competitive back at the time and used to give insanely stacked matches during prime time in top ranks. and well, we had teamQ which was dead.

 

teamQ required 5 players to join and let's face it, most gw2 players are highly antisocial individuals from my personal experience, so almost nobody played it. it took like 10mins+ to find a match and most of the time you faced some random guild friends that had absolutely no clue how to play.

 

the best version of a queue system was during the first 2 seasons of HoT. dynamic queue and once you queued as a team of 3-5 it automatically counted as a team and increased/decreased the mmr of the guild the 3+ players were representing. matches were quite good too. sure, you sometimes had the odd unbalanced match but me and my team often played against pro league teams on a daily basis. i can't speak for low mmr guilds tho, we were 1800+

 

 

Team queue was never dead. I used to queue team queue with a team of: Me, my girlfriend Amanda, our friend Keri, Keri's friend Kate, and Keri's 65 year old mother Clo. We'd queue team queue aaaaall the time, and I'd rarely see the same team twice.

Then they removed solo/team and turned it into unranked/ranked, but team queue was never dead. I'm tired of hearing people say these things as to reinforce some opinion that solo/duo is where we should be at because none of that is true. Team queue was busier and had much more activity than solo/duo every had.

There are many reasons for that. From the example I gave you, I can guarantee you that none of those teammates I had would have wanted to play by themselves in any mode, but when they could all play together in a discord, they'd queue all day.

Do you have any idea how many people there are like that out in the community? 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Crab Fear.1624]

18 minutes ago, xiaoyan.1637 said:

That would just become 5 people que-syncing against a team of their own alts in order to wintrade.  You want to make wintrading even easier??

Might be possible if the option to play a solo queue was still around, but everyone would be forced to play teams.

The amount of teams int eh queue would make it hard to sync.

Also, if you are introducing not balancing problems, you will find that we can come up with solutions much more easily than trying to balance classes.

[Jekkt.6045]

  

1 minute ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Team queue was never dead. I used to queue team queue with a team of: Me, my girlfriend Amanda, our friend Keri, Keri's friend Kate, and Keri's 65 year old mother Clo. We'd queue team queue aaaaall the time, and I'd rarely see the same team twice.

Then they removed solo/team and turned it into unranked/ranked, but team queue was never dead. I'm tired of hearing people say these things as to reinforce some opinion that solo/duo is where we should be at because none of that is true. Team queue as busier and had much more activity than solo/duo every had.

There are many reasons for that. From the example I gave you, I can guarantee you that none of those teammates I had would have wanted to play by themselves in any mode, but when they could all play together in a discord, they'd queue all day.

Do you have any idea how many people there are like that out in the community? 

 

is that NA or EU? I'm on EU

Edited September 29, 2021 by Jekkt.6045

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Just now, Jekkt.6045 said:

  

 

is that NA or EU? I'm on EU

NA

[Exile.8160]

19 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Team queue was never dead. I used to queue team queue with a team of: Me, my girlfriend Amanda, our friend Keri, Keri's friend Kate, and Keri's 65 year old mother Clo. We'd queue team queue aaaaall the time, and I'd rarely see the same team twice.

Then they removed solo/team and turned it into unranked/ranked, but team queue was never dead. I'm tired of hearing people say these things as to reinforce some opinion that solo/duo is where we should be at because none of that is true. Team queue was busier and had much more activity than solo/duo every had.

There are many reasons for that. From the example I gave you, I can guarantee you that none of those teammates I had would have wanted to play by themselves in any mode, but when they could all play together in a discord, they'd queue all day.

Do you have any idea how many people there are like that out in the community? 

 

Pretty much the same for me. I have lots of friends I que most of them I met while playing q (when it was 5 q) we use to play every single night as a team it was so much fun and qs would pop fast cuz there were many ppl playing at the time.

 

sadly duo q came and pretty much all stopped playing -_- I mostly solo q now it I feel I would patience that day with pugs.

[ramorambo.6701]

30 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Except it wouldn't and it didnt.

You are making points that are not factually true.

The game mode was healthy and crashed after teams were removed.

We know that fractals and raids require teams, and everyone is still bopping in those.

You base an argument on imagination, and I am basing it on reality.

It is not beyond annoying, but they can also create a better team finder, or you could join a guild.

Most people will adapt, because they did in PVE so there is the proof.

 

The game is mode is all but dead, even a megabalance proved to be fail lol.

 

They know what it will take.

Why do you even open public topics if you already have decided that what others say is wrong and you're "factually true", just open a notepad and write senteces while answering to them yourself then.

No solo que would hurt ANY competitive game, pvp is mostly played for fun rather than for farming like fractals, thus removing a system that enables a quick que and forces a more annoying system would hinter the fun; i'm not saying no one would play it i'm just saying that it would be less fun, resulting in an even bigger reduction of the sPvp population, wich is IN-FACT low, since it's easy as kitten to get in the top 250 even while not being a top player.

Also idk why would you take PVE players examples in an enviroment where we're talking about PVP player's behaviour, so no you have no facts whatsoever.

 

I mean i'm all for new gamemode and revamps, but forcing 5v5 and kicking out solo que right now is nonsense, as i said before pvp should get a revamp at its core, with a whole lot more incentives to have the numbers to support new game modes, one of wich could be 5v5 ranked only

Edited September 29, 2021 by ramorambo.6701

[TheDarkness.6947]

As someone who just started PvP in S28 and queues solo, I think it’s worth a shot.  The part of me that is resistant is the part that thinks it will take more time/effort to get a match.  But lets face it, the quality of the matches is kinda rubbish right now anyway.  If it makes it too much effort to get a match that I have to just stop playing the mode, it probably won’t be that big of a loss at this point anyway.

 

Potentially it makes things much better.  At least it’d get rid of the bots.

[Crab Fear.1624]

18 minutes ago, ramorambo.6701 said:

Why do you even open public topics if you already have decided that what others say is wrong and you're "factually true", just open a notepad and write senteces while answering to them yourself then.

No solo que would hurt ANY competitive game, pvp is mostly played for fun rather than for farming like fractals, thus removing a system that enables a quick que and forces a more annoying system would hinter the fun; i'm not saying no one would play it i'm just saying that it would be less fun, resulting in an even bigger reduction of the sPvp population, wich is IN-FACT low, since it's easy as kitten to get in the top 250 even while not being a top player.

Also idk why would you take PVE players examples in an enviroment where we're talking about PVP player's behaviour, so no you have no facts whatsoever.

 

I mean i'm all for new gamemode and revamps, but forcing 5v5 and kicking out solo que right now is nonsense, as i said before pvp should get a revamp at its core, with a whole lot more incentives to have the numbers to support new game modes, one of wich could be 5v5 ranked only

Im only sayin what you say is wrong because it is.

You have said that it would hinder the fun and shirnk the pop, I have explained we have beeen doing it this way for years and 25+ seasons as you clamied and saw nothing but it shrinking.

Just because I disagree, or can point out the flaw in your claim doesn't mean I don't acknowledge your claim as a claim, it just means I don't acknowledge it as true.

Everytime someone comes up with the same argument as you I will deny it because it can be proven wrong.

 

They should leave unranked as is, and then players can be casual and learn and test builds and build up teams in unranked.

When they come to ranked, it is not supposed to be a "casual" experience, it is competitive.

Teams only won't kill the mode, and many players are very capable of forming teams, and the quality of games will go up.

 

But why do you think nothing has worked so far to stimulate the population?

You think it is balance/?

You brought up population, so what is it?

 

You can fill in your counter argument with less fluff and get right to the point so I can shoot it down, I would rather not

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Crab Fear.1624

[Crab Fear.1624]

53 minutes ago, ramorambo.6701 said:

Solo ranked is good because it's quick and fun, wich keeps a lot of people playing, it would be a terrible idea to force solo players to play unranked since there are almost no rewards for unranked, what you're suggesting is basically automated tournament with extra steps.

 

But the population has done nothing but shrink since solo q was the law.

You form a team once and play through games, when one player is done, scoop up another and keep queuing, have you ever played teams in the GW franchise?

It is not anything like an extra step tourney.

You keep queing into matches, and it is why there is an option at the top after a match to continue with the same team, so you can auto q.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Teams will also effectively remove farming bots from ranked.

The player running bots would need to run 5 consecutively on a single team.

Imagine how easy it would be to find the farming bots in ranked then.

Wipe them out it packets of 5.

I can't help but wonder if some of those against teams are actually concerned about this in reality.

I mean bots are real and confirmed and problematic....

Imagine

 

Dang, another super positive for teams only in ranked.

[Sylosi.6503]

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

You are making points that are not factually true.

The game mode was healthy and crashed after teams were removed.

 

LOL, the game mode has been in permanent decline outside of temporary boosts from things like F2P, expansions, the initially novelty of seasons, etc. And that has been regardless of whether they had team, solo, "dynamic", ranked, unranked, etc.

 

I hate to break it to you, but most of the actual tryhard PvP players who came here looking for their "e-sport", left the game before HoT with the likes of Teldo. PvP has not been healthy for a very long time, which is why they had to try and bribe PvE / WvW players to play it with rewards, why the devs were not keen on having both a team queue and a solo queue because it would split the small population, etc.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Sylosi.6503

[Crab Fear.1624]

1 minute ago, Sylosi.6503 said:

 

LOL, the game mode has been in permanent decline outside of temporary boosts from things like F2P, expansions, the initially novelty of seasons, etc. And that has been regardless of whether they had team, solo, mixture, ranked, unranked, etc.

 

I hate to break it to you, but most of the actual tryhard PvP players who came here looking for their "e-sport", left the game before HoT with the likes of Teldo. The only person making points factually untrue is you, PvP has not been healthy for a very long time, which is why they had to try and bribe PvE players in with rewards, why the devs were not keen on having both a team queue and a solo queue because it would split the small population, etc.

I put the game into decline following the removal of teams.

This is true.

Not a single uptick since.

 

---

 

No one cares about your e-sport heroes, but remember they left when teams were removed and the esl was abolished lol.

Again, I'm right.

 

---

 

I'm not asking to split the population, I am saying it should be teams only.

[Khalisto.5780]

mistake one

 

the bread and butter of pve is open world, which is pretty much a solo activity

 

raids are optional and ppl play either for the challenge and/or legendary armor, that have the replay value of 30 weeks if you want all 3 legendaries, considering you full clear every week, there is also a gold farm replay value, out of that it's a completely avoidable content

 

fractals are 100% avoidable, ppl do it mostly for gold

 

in other words you can slowly casual your way and still get all pve goodies aside from legendary armor, that could be easily replaced by 2 ascended sets

 

mistake 2

 

do i want to team up to ppl available  at the time i log in, will ppl want to q up with me if i have time for 1 or 2 games

 

just make ATs  everyhour with higher and lower prizes to attract different tier levels

 

I'm all in for a team q ranked, 2, 3 and 5 ppl team sizes. So premades would only face each other and i never get to play against them as a solo player.

[Sylosi.6503]

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

I put the game into decline following the removal of teams.

This is true.

Not a single uptick since.

 

---

 

No one cares about your e-sport heroes, but remember they left when teams were removed and the esl was abolished lol.

Again, I'm right.

 

--

 

Nonsense, PvP has been in decline most of the game, including when there were various options to let people queue as 5.

 

I don't have any "e-sport" heroes, I simply pointed out contrary to your claims, most of the tryhard PvP guys who came to this game quit before even HoT was launched, a declining PvP population is not new or something that only started when they changed to solo/duo seasons.

 

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

I'm not asking to split the population, I am saying it should be teams only.

 

 

I didn't say you were asking for the population to be split, the point was years and years ago when in your little fantasy world the PvP population was "healthy", the reality was the population was already so small the devs didn't want 2 queues, because it would split the already small population. 

 

Team queues or anything else will not save PvP, PvP has been in decline most of the game, including when there were options to queue as a 5 man. You are playing a 10 year old themepark MMORPG with completely compromised balance / design, metas that drag on for an eternity and a population too small to do anything with (which has been the case most of the game), the only future is decline. Which is natural for games this old and especially PvP in themepark MMORPGs, there is nothing they can do about that.

 

If you want competitive PvP then play a dedicated PvP game with a decent population, and guess what, they still cater to solo / duo, because the vast majority of people (especially those with a life and some money) play solo / duo at least some of the time.

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Sylosi.6503

[ramorambo.6701]

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

But the population has done nothing but shrink since solo q was the law.

You form a team once and play through games, when one player is done, scoop up another and keep queuing, have you ever played teams in the GW franchise?

It is not anything like an extra step tourney.

You keep queing into matches, and it is why there is an option at the top after a match to continue with the same team, so you can auto q.

You keep saying the population shrinked because of soloq implementation, while ignoring the fact that the population was big only when people still hadn't a clue about how much this game sPvp was pretty much semi-abandoned, meta specs are specs that are 4 years old, the gamemode has nothing to do with the shrinking, the never changing meta however does.

 

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Teams will also effectively remove farming bots from ranked.

The player running bots would need to run 5 consecutively on a single team.

Imagine how easy it would be to find the farming bots in ranked then.

Wipe them out it packets of 5.

I can't help but wonder if some of those against teams are actually concerned about this in reality.

I mean bots are real and confirmed and problematic....

Imagine

 

Dang, another super positive for teams only in ranked.

Dang, another post that only list positive things while completely ignoring negatives of your reasoning,  the annoyance of finding 4 people, removing the option to play ranked with a single button click-no direct player interaction that many players do like for pvp modes.

 

Anyway rest assured that 5v5 enforce will never happen at all, it MAY appear in the offseason tho, just to test the water, since off season is a shitfest anyway

Edited September 29, 2021 by ramorambo.6701

[Spellhunter.9675]

2 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Ranked is like fractals or raids of PVE.

Wall of text destroyed with just one sentence.

[Crab Fear.1624]

1 hour ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Wall of text destroyed with just one sentence.

Lol.

I think you missed the point.

We have modes in PVE that require teams, and for some reason the competitive portion of SPvP doesn't require it.

 

Totally reverse carded you just now lol.

 

NO U